What is justice?

[Karol123]

The Cassiopaeans mentioned that justice does not exist because is it fair that lizards eat us, i.e. 3D, and we eat 2D and 1D beings? Because if justice is understood in earthly terms as equality, then there really is no equality in creation. Justice either does not exist or is misunderstood by us. A good example is our earthly justice system, which is reduced only to punishment and has nothing to do with justice. The Cassiopaeans mentioned that a prisoner serving a sentence in prison does not learn anything, and I will add from myself that often he leaves prison even worse than he entered. The only such justice is probably karmic law, which teaches and is spread over many incarnations. Karmic law seems to be the only fair solution in the universe. But what do we know about karmic law apart from the fact that it exists.

 

[Natus Videre]

First of all, it was our group decision to experience physical sensations... and all that entails!

Q: (L) Are human beings entrapped in physical matter?
A: By choice.

Q: (L) Why did they make this choice?
A: To experience physical sensations. It was a group mind decision.

Q: (L) Who was in charge of the group?
A: The group.

Therefore, as a result, we became the Lizzies' lab rats.

Q: (L) Let me ask this one before the tape runs out and we take a break. What is the "ultimate secret" being protected by the Consortium?

A: You are not in control of yourselves, you are an experiment.

When you play in the mud, expect to get dirty! Justice, fairness, and peace were never part of the equation. It is only now, after being subjected to many atrocities in this Grand Cycle, that we are realizing that justice is an essential concept in a balanced world.

In 3D, we are not able to fully understand the subtleties of free will and karma. However, we know that Creation strives for balance, and that we are temporarily stuck in a turbulent sector of space/time. Cosmic justice will come!

Q: (L) What are you excited about?
A: Peace will come!

Q: (L) And when will this peace come? Well, maybe "when" isn't the right question. How is peace going to come?
A: The cosmos is going to clean house!!!

 

[Ichbee]

Some thoughts: My belief. Hopefully it will not cause offence

We inhabit a predator reality, which is STS
We have agreed to the rules of this reality, but we can choose to change the rules, or exit it when we desire to do so
The only way to thrive in this reality is to 'eat' /take energy from others, but we can choose to be STO candidates and alter the rules /script
We are but actors on a stage, playing the part(s) we agreed to. Sometimes we are the protagonist, other times, the extra [spear carrier]

We are the One
We are the same . Now. Before, After, but we inhabit a cyclic reality that we can change if we have a great enough intent
There is neither good nor evil, but only out-raying /in-raying, STS /STO, exhale /inhale i.e the Cycle
And we get to choose where in that cycle we apply our consciousness - if we have enough intent
Whatever we do, or refrain from doing, we do to ourself (as we are One), therefore we are both the injurer and injured party

We exist in an infinite reality, where 'time' is but a self-generated environment that we create and share as an isolated environment to experience obscure aspects of Creation
Therefore, as the Cycle is infinite (Always was, Will be, Is) anything that consciousness can conceive and intend has happened, will happen, is happening
Karma then cannot be sequential, incarnations are co-existent and we are responsible for our own actions applied to ourselves.
But, we have the ability to change the conditions, 'rules' of engagement, etc. if we so intend

There is no adult (god) supervising us. It is our playpen, our (changeable) 'rules', our script and preformed with our permission
Sometimes, we are the baby-eaters, other times the baby, but as we are One, we are fully responsible for the script

My personal hope, is that this does not make personal responsibility for actions, obsolete, but that might just be illusion (comfort blanket) on my part.

My belief is that by inhabiting a predator universe constrained by 'time', (enabled by going slower than Light), we get to explore the concepts of responsibility, individuality and separation.
My thoughts on this matter, continually return to: When a raindrop falls into the ocean, does it lose it' individuality /consciousness?
When a raindrop leaves the ocean does it gain individuality, or retain it /experience separation?

Is guilt therefore something we undertake to help us remember what we are, were we come from and that we have a choice /decision to make? = between STS /STO. in-ray /out ray, etc.

 

[Fluffy]

The Cassiopaeans mentioned that justice does not exist because is it fair that lizards eat us, i.e. 3D, and we eat 2D and 1D beings? Because if justice is understood in earthly terms as equality, then there really is no equality in creation. Justice either does not exist or is misunderstood by us. A good example is our earthly justice system, which is reduced only to punishment and has nothing to do with justice. The Cassiopaeans mentioned that a prisoner serving a sentence in prison does not learn anything, and I will add from myself that often he leaves prison even worse than he entered. The only such justice is probably karmic law, which teaches and is spread over many incarnations. Karmic law seems to be the only fair solution in the universe. But what do we know about karmic law apart from the fact that it exists.

In another dimension you’re eating a baby right now, you didn’t even kill it first. I don’t know about what is just and fair in the grand scheme, C’s say we have limited grasp on understanding karma. May be we will have a better idea of this when we accept all parts of ourselves without seeing one worse than the other.
I think repenting (sincere, it's worthless just saying something we don’t really mean) has a major part to play in karma, then forgiving self and others for perceived wrongdoings.

 

[Michal]

Hi,
Interesting...

I tried finding explicit mention of justice in transcripts. C's transcripts searchable
Three results in which 14 June 2014 session C's mention "Cosmic justice is coming".
Other two times word "justice" mentioned by participants.

So seems that at least exact statement like you gave Karol123 is not like that. Maybe you could give the fragment based on which you say that they said that?

Anyway only from that one statement "Cosmic justice is coming" we may see that C's use this concept so seems quite credible that such a thing like cosmic justice does exist.

I just think whether without C's I could say the same that cosmic justice exists.

I think that yes. Why? Because if there is common general law of nature (GUFT) then we are subject to that law in micro and macro scale. So justice as relation to law must also exist.

Maybe simpleton reasoning but I like it :).

 

[genero81]

Justice is a human concept conceived as a necessary component of civilized society. A person who desires to rise above his carnal desires and instincts begins to conduct himself (or herself) according to higher ideals otherwise known as virtues. If a society were to consist of only virtuous citizens, then perhaps a judiciary system would not be a necessary component of the State, but since that's never the case, the same or similar concepts of virtue are taken on by the State in order bring compensation to those who have been unlawfully violated by others bringing about a more balanced outcome. By this means, the State maintains harmony.

At a cosmic level, I'm not sure Justice is a thing. Free will is the one universal 'law.' But in order for that free will to be preserved, balance must be maintained. OSIT

And, I don't recall the C's actually saying that justice doesn't exist.

 

[bozadi]

A few notes on karma from N. Maharaj:

God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God.

Pure experience does not bind; experience caught between desire and fear is impure and creates karma.

Karma shapes the circumstances: the attitudes are your own. Ultimately your character shapes your life and you alone can shape your character.

M: … In every concrete situation there is only the necessary and the unnecessary. The needful is right, the needless is wrong.

Q: Who decides?

M: The situation decides. Every situation is a challenge which demands the right response. When the response is right, the challenge is met and the problem ceases. If the response is wrong, the challenge is not met and the problem remains unsolved. Your unsolved problems — that is what constitutes your karma. Solve them rightly and be free.

Q: What I am is the result of my karma.

M: What you appear to be, you are not. Karma is only a word you have learnt to repeat. You have never been, nor shall ever be a person. Refuse to consider yourself as one. But as long as you do not even doubt yourself to be a Mr. So-and-so, there is little hope. When you refuse to open your eyes, what can you be shown?

Q: I imagine karma to be a mysterious power that urges me towards perfection.

M: That’s what people told you. You are already perfect, here and now. The perfectible is not you. You imagine yourself to be what you are not — stop it. It is the cessation that is important, not what you are going to stop.

Q: Did not karma compel me to become what I am?

M: Nothing compels. You are as you believe yourself to be. Stop believing.

Q: Here you are sitting on your seat and talking to me. What compels you is your karma.

M: Nothing compels me. I do what needs doing. But you do so many unnecessary things. It is your refusal to examine that creates karma. It is the indifference to your own suffering that perpetuates it.

Q: Yes, it is true. What can put an end to this indifference?

M: The urge must come from within as a wave of detachment, or compassion.

Q: Could I meet this urge half way?

M: Of course. See your own condition, see the condition of the world.

Q: We were told about karma and reincarnation, evolution and Yoga, masters and disciples. What are we to do with all this knowledge?

M: Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth, unburdened with ideas and beliefs. Abandon all verbal structures, all relative truth, all tangible objectives. The Absolute can be reached by absolute devotion only. Don’t be half-hearted.

Q: Is there no such thing as free will? Am I not free to desire?

M: Oh no, you are compelled to desire. In Hinduism the very idea of free will is non-existent, so there is no word for it. Will is commitment, fixation, bondage.

Q: I am free to choose my limitations.

M: You must be free first. To be free in the world you must be free of the world. Otherwise your past decides for you and your future. Between what had happened and what must happen you are caught. Call it destiny or karma, but never — freedom. First return to your true being and then act from the heart of love.

Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?

M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of unfulfilled desires and fears not understood. The store is being constantly replenished by new desires and fears. It need not be so for ever. Understand the root cause of your fears — estrangement from yourself: and of desires — the longing for the self, and your karma will dissolve like a dream.

Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.

M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we are all creators and creatures of each other, causing and bearing each other’s burden.

M: Most of our karma is collective. We suffer for the sins of others, as others suffer for ours. Humanity is one. Ignorance of this fact does not change it. We could have been much happier people ourselves, but for our indifference to the sufferings of others.

Q: Am I not under the sway of destiny, of my karma? What can I do against it? What I am and what I do is pre-determined. Even my so-called free choice is predetermined; only I am not aware of it and imagine myself to be free.

M: Again, it all depends how you look at it. Ignorance is like a fever — it makes you see things which are not there. Karma is the divinely prescribed treatment. Welcome it and follow the instructions faithfully and you will get well. A patient will leave the hospital after he recovers. To insist on immediate freedom of choice and action will merely postpone recovery. Accept your destiny and fulfil it — this is the shortest way to freedom from destiny, though not from love and its compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to act from love is freedom.

M: Karma, or destiny, is an expression of a beneficial law: the universal trend towards balance, harmony and unity. At every moment, whatever happens now, is for the best. It may appear painful and ugly, a suffering bitter and meaningless, yet considering the past and the future it is for the best, as the only way out of a disastrous situation.

Q: Does one suffer only for one’s own sins?

M: One suffers along with what one thinks oneself to be. If you feel one with humanity, you suffer with humanity.

Q: And since you claim to be one with the universe, there is no limit in time or space to your suffering!

M: To be is to suffer. The narrower the circle of my self-identification, the more acute the suffering caused by desire and fear.

Q: Christianity accepts suffering as purifying and ennobling, while Hinduism looks at it with distaste.

M: Christianity is one way of putting words together and Hinduism is another. The real is, behind and beyond words, incommunicable, directly experienced, explosive in its effect on the mind. It is easily had when nothing else is wanted. The unreal is created by imagination and perpetuated by desire.

Q: Can there be no suffering that is necessary and good?

M: Accidental or incidental pain is inevitable and transitory; deliberate pain, inflicted with even the best of intentions, is meaningless and cruel.

Q: You would not punish crime?

M: Punishment is but legalized crime. In a society built on prevention, rather than retaliation, there would be very little crime. The few exceptions will be treated medically, as of unsound mind and body.

 

[Ryan]

And, I don't recall the C's actually saying that justice doesn't exist.

They didn't. That's the OP's interpretation and an interesting insight into his/her inner landscape.

 

[Michal]

My try to answer what justice is:

Word Justice - Definition
After Oxford English Dictionary:
Oxfor English Dicitionary - Justice definition

Word "justice" is most frequently used in context of this definition (per OED - Oxfor English Dictionary):

III.

The quality of being just. Cf. justness n.

1. III.7.

The quality of being just or right, as a human or divine attribute; moral uprightness; just behaviour or dealing as a concept or principle (one of the four cardinal virtues: cf. cardinal adj. I.1); the exhibition of this quality or principle in action; integrity, rectitude.

Ethymology: comes from Latin ius = law

This definition matches the frequency of word justice in different contexts for which I used Google Books Ngram Viewer:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=justice+AND+social&year_start=1980&year_end=2022&case_insensitive=true&corpus=en&smoothing=3

searched: justice AND social, justice AND religion, justice AND philosophy, justice AND law, justice AND judicial.
Most frequent from those 5 was justice AND social.

Ulpian's definition:

the constant and perpetual will to render to each his due

Elegant definition but missing some important part which maybe in Justinian times were understood as obvious: due because of what?

To me it seems that definition and etymology of this word directs my mind to more general category from which justice is derived which is category of law.

So justice is on lower logical level than law.
Justice is a function of law.
Justice is in relation to law ... maybe like medicine to health. Correct me if it is wrong reasoning.
Justice has balancing function.

So what is just or unjust may be defined when we know the law.

Do I know the law?

Here more questions than answers to me is coming.
For example: I do not know if I may so easily infer general law of free will from existence of free will in me? Without necessity to support my reason with C's material?
I would like to believe that probably yes :) otherwise we all would be dependent always for understanding of the world on external party.
Question: am I able to figure out all necessary things about what I need to pass the lesson here and now without external help?
Reality of my life shows that no. That at least if not other density it is a lot of other human beings that help to understand who I am, where I am, why and for what.

 

[bozadi]

Whatever we do, or refrain from doing, we do to ourself (as we are One), therefore we are both the injurer and injured party

Yeah, I think that's right from the absolute point of view.

Q: What is your attitude to sin? How do you look at a sinner, somebody who breaks the law, inner or outer? Do you want him to change or you just pity him? Or, are you indifferent to him because of his sins?

M: I know no sin, nor sinner. Your distinction and valuation do not bind me. Everybody behaves according to his nature. It cannot be helped, nor need it be regretted.

Q: Others suffer.

M: Life lives on life. In nature the process is compulsory, in society it should be voluntary. There can be no life without sacrifice. A sinner refuses to sacrifice and invites death. This is as it is, and gives no cause for condemnation or pity.

Q: Surely you feel at least compassion when you see a man steeped in sin.

M: Yes, I feel I am that man and his sins are my sins.

Q: Right, and what next?

M: By my becoming one with him he becomes one with me. It is not a conscious process, it happens entirely by itself. None of us can help it. What needs changing shall change anyhow; enough to know oneself as one is, here and now. Intense and methodical investigation into one’s mind is Yoga.

Q: What about the chains of destiny forged by sin?

M: When ignorance, the mother of sin, dissolves, destiny, the compulsion to sin again, ceases.

Q: There are retributions to make.

M: With ignorance coming to an end all comes to an end. Things are then seen as they are and they are good.

Q: If a sinner, a breaker of the law, comes before you and asks for your grace, what will be your response?

M: He will get what he asks for.

Q: In spite of being a very bad man?

M: I know no bad people, I only know myself. I see no saints nor sinners, only living beings. I do not hand out grace. There is nothing I can give, or deny, which you do not have already in equal measure. Just be aware of your riches and make full use of them. As long as you imagine that you need my grace, you will be at my door begging for it. My begging for grace from you would make as little sense! We are not separate, the real is common.

I think God's (or Self's) right to effect karma is justified by the fact that God is us (all is one). It's a self-imposition naturally taking place as needed.

 

[Natus Videre]

In our STS world, at the end of a trial, the "winning" side gets moral satisfaction or compensation while the "losing" side gets punished and needs to reflect on what it did.

But what if the Universe operated differently?

"Through your actions, you have relentlessly violated people's free will. Therefore, you are scheduled to repeat your lesson in the next Grand Cycle," says the Universe.

Repeating a lesson could be the utlimate form of cosmic justice.

Q: (L) So we just have to stay on our toes at all times?

A: Absolutely don't let others distract you. You have suffered many attempts at distraction away from truth. Now follow some proclamations: Pause. All there is is lessons. This is one infinite school. There is no other reason for anything to exist. Even inanimate matter learns it is all an "Illusion." Each individual possesses all of creation within their minds. Now, contemplate for a moment. Each soul is all powerful and can create or destroy all existence if know how. You and us and all others are interconnected by our mutual possession of all there is. You may create alternative universes if you wish and dwell within. You are all a duplicate of the universe within which you dwell. Your mind represents all that exists. It is "fun" to see how much you can access.

Repeating a lesson is a blessing from the Universe. There is no winner and no loser. Every being is presented with what it needs to learn in order to advance... and if the next lesson happens to be "relearn the cosmic alphabet", it is what it is. Free will.

 

[bozadi]

"Through your actions, you have relentlessly violated people's free will. Therefore, you are scheduled to repeat your lesson in the next Grand Cycle," says the Universe.

Yeah but let's also remember that the repetition of a grand cycle will not necessarily be caused by violation of others' free will. The basic cause is self-explanatory: failure to learn. Then, also, from an STS point of view, violation and/or manipulation of others' free will is imperative to graduate, right?

Repeating a lesson is a blessing from the Universe.

Yes and no, I'll say. The "yes" part is obvious, I think. As for the "no" part, repetition again and again of a lesson can imply a significant disease of consciousness, as in the case of humanity (at least for the "souled" part of it).

 

[Natus Videre]

Yeah but let's also remember that the repetition of a grand cycle will not necessarily be caused by violation of others' free will. The basic cause is self-explanatory: failure to learn. Then, also, from an STS point of view, violation and/or manipulation of others' free will is imperative to graduate, right?

I don't think an STS being wakes up every day with the intention of violating free will. Free will violations are a byproduct of self-aggrandizement, the thirst for dominance, for power. In order to assert its dominance over other beings, an STS being will use deception and coercive measures, which, in turn, will violate the free will of its "slaves." Just as parasites are very social creatures, psychopaths need someone to operate on. If you remove the feeding energy from an STS being, you deprive it from vital fuel.

Q: (L) Does it hurt a plant when we eat it?

A: Does it hurt you when a "Lizzie" eats you?

Q: (T) Yes, you see, on 4th density... we are on 3rd density and we eat 1st and 2nd density, the 4th density eats us. (D) If we hurt plants by eating them like the Lizzies hurt us when they eat us, how are we to survive without eating?

A: When you no longer crave physicality, you no longer need to "eat."

 

[Maya]

I would say that here on 3D justice is instant karma, or reap what you sow but in real time
In cosmic scale some lessons take little bit more time as we see. So, could justice be other name for balance and knowledge ?

 

[bozadi]

Yeah but let's also remember that the repetition of a grand cycle will not necessarily be caused by violation of others' free will. The basic cause is self-explanatory: failure to learn. Then, also, from an STS point of view, violation and/or manipulation of others' free will is imperative to graduate, right?

I don't think an STS being wakes up every day with the intention of violating free will. Free will violations are a byproduct of self-aggrandizement, the thirst for dominance, for power. In order to assert its dominance over other beings, an STS being will use deception and coercive measures, which, in turn, will violate the free will of its "slaves." Just as parasites are very social creatures, psychopaths need someone to operate on. If you remove the feeding energy from an STS being, you deprive it from vital fuel.

What I want to attract attention to in this regard is that "karmic lessons involving violation of others' free will" doesn't seem to be the main reason for soulled humanity's excessive repetition of 3D.