What to do with money, if you have something left in the bank ?

Yupo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
As a possible answer for the OP, I don't think abandoning cash entirely is smart. Up and until it won't be accepted, most of us still have bills to pay. On top of that I'm reminded of some fictional post apocalyptic scenarios, I think the show Jericho was one (not sure), where for a short time folks still took cash, which sort of makes sense since people are used to accepting it. It could remain useful for a period.
Cash can work in a community even after collapse if everyone agrees to honor the value. Very important to have community agreements to work together, watch each other’s backs.
Also very important (or useful) to be on good terms with people in power. This way you’re less likely to be messed with by shakedown artists.
As far as an investment, I’d recommend a good fireplace, wood, and some cast iron for cooking with such fire.
It might be good to have a cistern, or at least some way to collect rain water from downspouts. It can be filtered. Useful for many purposes. A well with a hand pump is a good idea too.
 

cinnamon

The Force is Strong With This One
You suggested bleach is a long term solution for water purification.

You want me to go into the dangers of chlorine? Not to mention you basically suggest adding it in unknown quantities, I will add only this - Chlorine additives are typically suggested for short term emergency use, such as camping or emergency disinfection... unless of course you're talking about municipal water supply, which is another issue entirely and still problematic imo. That being said, why don't you tell me why bleach is a good long term water additive?
Per the EPA, 2 drops of regular unscented household bleach is specified for 1 quart of water, you may scale up as appropriate. This was also followed up with the suggestion of filters - which, if appropriately selected, also remove the chlorine additives in question.

Why bleach in a sufficiently severe SHTF scenario that you're purifying your own water?
  1. Electricity or fuel required for boiling water in such an event may be hard to come by.
  2. Solar stills / condensation traps don't yield enough water to sustain a person.
  3. Relative ease and safety. Within the conventional media, chlorinated water is generally accepted as safe. There is certainly some discussion to be had in another thread regarding carcinogenicity of disinfection byproducts - but I can assure you that waterborne diseases in drinking water will kill you long before trihalomethane induced cancer will. If it's overchlorinated - sensory response will encourage further dilution - preventing toxicity.
  4. Iodine water purification can have other, more severe issues when you start playing with dosages - see linked Iodine thread.
  5. If the system is really down, you can electrolyze saline water to get bleach. It is also much more readily located if you have to scavenge.
As an aside, this exchange has been unnecessarily adversarial, there's absolutely zero justification for the hostility I have received and I will not be engaging further. Members of the forum are encouraged to do their own research.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
As an aside, this exchange has been unnecessarily adversarial, there's absolutely zero justification for the hostility I have received and I will not be engaging further.
I find this interesting. I have seen no hostility towards anyone in this thread until you posted what you posted, cinnamon. There has been differences of opinion, but no hostility. Do you see differing opinions as hostile? Do you find people who give alternative solutions as adversarial? Do you find it adversarial if people do not agree with you? Can people not have differing opinions and share them? Are you, maybe, emotionally invested in what you say?

No need to answer, cinnamon. This is just food for thought.
 

cinnamon

The Force is Strong With This One
I find this interesting. I have seen no hostility towards anyone in this thread until you posted what you posted, cinnamon. There has been differences of opinion, but no hostility. Do you see differing opinions as hostile? Do you find people who give alternative solutions as adversarial? Do you find it adversarial if people do not agree with you? Can people not have differing opinions and share them? Are you, maybe, emotionally invested in what you say?

No need to answer, cinnamon. This is just food for thought.
Usage of CAPS and what I perceived to be a deliberate misconstrual of what I have posted here was understood as hostility, there is disagreement and there is trolling.

I am probably overly emotionally attached to this though - 'prepping' has been a means of coping with anxieties driven by the mass hysteria associated with Corona.
 

SevenFeathers

Jedi Council Member
Per the EPA, 2 drops of regular unscented household bleach is specified for 1 quart of water, you may scale up as appropriate. This was also followed up with the suggestion of filters - which, if appropriately selected, also remove the chlorine additives in question.

Why bleach in a sufficiently severe SHTF scenario that you're purifying your own water?
  1. Electricity or fuel required for boiling water in such an event may be hard to come by.
  2. Solar stills / condensation traps don't yield enough water to sustain a person.
  3. Relative ease and safety. Within the conventional media, chlorinated water is generally accepted as safe. There is certainly some discussion to be had in another thread regarding carcinogenicity of disinfection byproducts - but I can assure you that waterborne diseases in drinking water will kill you long before trihalomethane induced cancer will. If it's overchlorinated - sensory response will encourage further dilution - preventing toxicity.
  4. Iodine water purification can have other, more severe issues when you start playing with dosages - see linked Iodine thread.
  5. If the system is really down, you can electrolyze saline water to get bleach. It is also much more readily located if you have to scavenge.


I had extra jugs of chlorine bleach on hand to use for disinfecting, etc. But I recently read that bleach only has a shelf life of about six months. So the jugs I have wouldn't be much use to disinfect water. This led me to information about keeping calcium hypochlorite on hand, to make your own "bleach" as needed. The powder is cheap (13.00 for a lb on ebay). It must be safely stored and handled, of course. I found instructions on making a solution at Disinfecting Water Using Calcium Hypochlorite | The Provident Prepper and I am sure there are other sites, as well. Use one gallon of water with 8 tablespoons of powder to make a 5% chlorine solution which is like the standard bleach in the stores.

Now this is for emergency only, as cinammon suggested. I have a Berkey water filter which does not need electricity to work. In a SHTF situation, I could use pond water in the Berkey to get drinkable water. But if I wanted to use the bleach to disinfect pond water, for example, I would still run it through the Berkey before drinking.

So in answer to the question of what to do with any extra money, one thing you could do is buy a gravity fed water filter such as the Big Berkey. It works great and the filters last for thousands of gallons, and can be cleaned.
 

Brewer

Jedi
I'm going all in on Micro Coin!!!! Bill has it sorted, just like his vaccines! 🤣 :lol:. Seriously, I'm buying things that will help my community, trying to grow veggies with limited success except for potatoes, onions and leeks. Sourcing some great free range meat ATM and my chickens are doing well. Sent US $50 to the Chateau the other day, will send more if certain investments ripen in a favorable way!
 

sbeaudry

Jedi Master
I had extra jugs of chlorine bleach on hand to use for disinfecting, etc. But I recently read that bleach only has a shelf life of about six months. So the jugs I have wouldn't be much use to disinfect water. This led me to information about keeping calcium hypochlorite on hand, to make your own "bleach" as needed. The powder is cheap (13.00 for a lb on ebay). It must be safely stored and handled, of course. I found instructions on making a solution at Disinfecting Water Using Calcium Hypochlorite | The Provident Prepper and I am sure there are other sites, as well. Use one gallon of water with 8 tablespoons of powder to make a 5% chlorine solution which is like the standard bleach in the stores.

Now this is for emergency only, as cinammon suggested. I have a Berkey water filter which does not need electricity to work. In a SHTF situation, I could use pond water in the Berkey to get drinkable water. But if I wanted to use the bleach to disinfect pond water, for example, I would still run it through the Berkey before drinking.

So in answer to the question of what to do with any extra money, one thing you could do is buy a gravity fed water filter such as the Big Berkey. It works great and the filters last for thousands of gallons, and can be cleaned.
I had a dream about searching for a gravity fed water filter when SHTF, but honestly I'd be out of luck relying on rain where I am situated. As to the bleach comment... How does chlorine go bad? Seems like salt expiration dates, ridiculous, but I'm no expert on bleach or water disinfection. I keep extra iodine but the bleach issue is perplexing. Why wouldn't it keep?
 

SevenFeathers

Jedi Council Member
I had a dream about searching for a gravity fed water filter when SHTF, but honestly I'd be out of luck relying on rain where I am situated. As to the bleach comment... How does chlorine go bad? Seems like salt expiration dates, ridiculous, but I'm no expert on bleach or water disinfection. I keep extra iodine but the bleach issue is perplexing. Why wouldn't it keep?
I don't know the scientific reason. But the sites I searched all state that it degrades into a water/salt solution after time. One site (5 Things To Know About Bleach Storage | Survivopedia) says:

The ideal storage temperature for bleach is between 50 and 70 degrees F. At those temperatures, bleach maintains its full strength and efficacy for between 3 and 6 months. After that, it loses about 20 percent of its strength per year. If it’s stored in hotter temperatures, it loses its strength even faster.

But then it goes on to say, "Even if it’s completely degraded, salt still inhibits many bugs and kills others."

So the dry sodium hypochlorite is better for long term storage, as you can mix small amounts at a time.
 

sbeaudry

Jedi Master
I don't know the scientific reason. But the sites I searched all state that it degrades into a water/salt solution after time. One site (5 Things To Know About Bleach Storage | Survivopedia) says:

The ideal storage temperature for bleach is between 50 and 70 degrees F. At those temperatures, bleach maintains its full strength and efficacy for between 3 and 6 months. After that, it loses about 20 percent of its strength per year. If it’s stored in hotter temperatures, it loses its strength even faster.

But then it goes on to say, "Even if it’s completely degraded, salt still inhibits many bugs and kills others."

So the dry sodium hypochlorite is better for long term storage, as you can mix small amounts at a time.
Ok, but does that mean the chlorine has evaporated? I dont get that. Salts tend to stay put. so, for instance distilled water. That vapor is caught in the secondary catch but the salts remain in the original receptical.
Edit: the cl should stay put. Is it rendered inert? I guess it could become gaseous but if the water reservoir is sealed it shouldn't be evaporated but I admit to not knowing enough about chlorine. It's easily evaporated if it's not a salt? so eh. I'm clueless
 
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sbeaudry

Jedi Master
I get it now. Sorry, I think I was a bit sleep deprived yesterday and short circuited. 😴. So bleach just breaks down into salt since it's not really stable for long periods of time. I did not know that. I guess it's a better long term strategy to just keep lugol's then since the iodine solution IS stable.
 

SevenFeathers

Jedi Council Member
Ok, but does that mean the chlorine has evaporated? I dont get that. Salts tend to stay put. so, for instance distilled water. That vapor is caught in the secondary catch but the salts remain in the original receptical.
Edit: the cl should stay put. Is it rendered inert? I guess it could become gaseous but if the water reservoir is sealed it shouldn't be evaporated but I admit to not knowing enough about chlorine. It's easily evaporated if it's not a salt? so eh. I'm clueless
You made me curious, so I looked further. This article sort of explains it: (Decay of Free Residual Chlorine in Drinking Water at the Point of Use)

if water samples contain FRC (0.2-0.8mg/l) are maintained in ambience and refrigerator, after 24 hr, FRC will decrease by 62% and 51% respectively. It was observed that FRC in the first method diminished sooner than the second method; this was due mainly to exposure to higher temperature and light. FRC dissociates more rapidly when the water is stored in bottles or containers which have no lid because the chlorine evaporates from the water that it is exposed to the air.

I do know that when I have been forced to use tap water that had a high chlorine smell, I would let a jar of water sit out overnight and the smell/taste would be gone in the morning.
 
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