What was he missing???

[Menna]

From Life is Real, only then, when I am

"...during their automatically flowing associations, as well as in the times of their half-conscious exchange of opinions among themselves, are animated by the necessity of arguing with enthusiasm and persistency, creating thus a really perceived and very intensively manifested idee fixe, relating only to a certain, sometimes quite insignificant information, which clears up only one particular question from the numberless questions which exclusively by their whole totality compose and elucidate the essence of my idea." (P 87)

So IMO he is basically saying that when discussing his ideas people became fixated ("idee fixe""center of gravity") on one of his ideas and couldn't consider his whole picture ("One bit here one bit there"). In Russia they were focused on the one idea that a man who has never worked intentionally on his perfecting is deprived of a soul and spirit. In Germany they were focused on fulfilling all that which is required of the physical body and to the perfecting of the Astral Body. People from England were focused on remembering themselves, people in Greece made their center of gravity in the law of seven and the three existing aspects of every event and in America they took in bits from his twenty four sections that he discussed which manly was about self observation that is required at the beginning of The Work.

It is clear that one of the universal laws in this 3D life is balance and G recognizes this by saying that "idee fixe" and "center of gravity" in one idea is not the way to go about The Work and that balance considering all aspects is what is needed. I agree with this. He also states that his followers all over the world couldn't and wouldn't consider his whole picture but it has also been stated many times that he didn't have the whole picture. With that being said I have three questions.

1) What was the essence of G's ideas was it self observation/improvement on oneself as a human being?

2) Why didn't G have the whole picture?

and

3) What piece or pieces was he missing?

 

[ajseph 21]

1) I believe the essence of G 's teaching was to awaken people to the reality that they are not in control of themelves and that through objective practices on the self you can come to understand yourself and the world. 2) I believe he didn't have the whole picture because of the constraints of 3rd density and possibly cognitive science may not have been advanced enough at the time. 3) It seems a big piece missing was hyperdimensional knowledge. By combining his work and Laura's however you can definitely begin to see why man has been reduced to the status of machine and the importance of awakening and working on oneself.
G does a great job of showing how we are controlled by progams and how to "debug" your machine and consciously live. But without knowledge concerning other densities, karma and the grand cycle one may not strive for objective consciousness. This may be why alot of his students didn't succeed IMHO. They couldn't see the bigger picture of soul and consciousness.

 

[mkrnhr]

IMHO, even if Gurdjieff's teachings do not address the hyperdimensional reality explicitly, he makes an allusion to it through the "food for the moon" idea (for instance http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=2). What he knew exactly, what he disclosed to his student, and what they understood is not easy to follow exactly. The Wave series can indeed be considered as continuation of the disclosure of how those phenomena do affect our existence within a much larger framework. OSIT

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, I think G knew about and alluded to the hyperdimensional reality in several ways, but he didn't emphasize it particularly nor elaborate on it. If the more practical sides of his teachings were so hard to understand and implement for his students, perhaps he felt emphasizing the hyperdimensional aspect would only make things even harder / muddier.

 

[ajseph 21]

What you have stated mkrnhr does make sense especially when considering the circles of man ( exoteric esoteric etc.). Gurdjeff could have been in a different circle as compared to his students and their understanding wouldn't have been on G's "level". And as you have noted the wave does expand on G's teachings substantially by descibing what "moon " we are feeding (4dsts). The terror of the situation really makes sense when viewed in the context of Laura's writings combined with the 4th way.
SeekinTruth you have good points in saying that elaborating on hyperdimensional aspects could have muddied their understanding even further without them actually getting the basics of G's teachings. Speaking of these aspects to students who couldn't face themselves in a practical way could have been detrimental to Gurdjeff's goal of a conscious group. They may not have been able to see the unseen so he put his cosmology in abstract terms like Sun Absolute. This is speculation on my part. :)

 

[LQB]

... SeekinTruth you have good points in saying that elaborating on hyperdimensional aspects could have muddied their understanding even further without them actually getting the basics of G's teachings. Speaking of these aspects to students who couldn't face themselves in a practical way could have been detrimental to Gurdjeff's goal of a conscious group. They may not have been able to see the unseen so he put his cosmology in abstract terms like Sun Absolute. This is speculation on my part. :)

Also consider that speaking of hyperdimensional realities might have smacked too closely of Spiritism which was raging in that general time frame. G may have wanted to steer clear of any association for the benefit of his students. Kinda like "New Age" stuff today - just a thought ...

 

[Menna]

He has referenced that we are " Food for the moon" which indicates that there are outside forces that act on our planet. It makes sense that back in the late 1800's and early 1900's the sciences were not developed like they are today so that is one way he could not of had all the information. I haven't come across any info about G talking about Karma and I myself have yet to wrap my head around the whole idea.

Any info or links that teach its concepts are much appreciated.

I do believe in this present day what we gained scientifically we lost mysticly as in the esoteric secrets that were available in the 1800's in the East have been surpressed and what was hard to find is almost impossible today... Laura does defy this statement as her work is the impossible come to life.

 

[ajseph 21]

I found a Ra session that spoke about karma and this may help us to begin to understand the concept.
34.4 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?
Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?
Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns.

 

[ajseph 21]

continued : This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.
At its root karma may be a major cause behind many mechanical behaviors until we forgive ourselves and others and break/brake the inertia/cycle of it. I hope this helps and others here may have more insight on this.

 

[anart]

He has referenced that we are " Food for the moon" which indicates that there are outside forces that act on our planet. It makes sense that back in the late 1800's and early 1900's the sciences were not developed like they are today so that is one way he could not of had all the information. I haven't come across any info about G talking about Karma and I myself have yet to wrap my head around the whole idea.

Any info or links that teach its concepts are much appreciated.

I do believe in this present day what we gained scientifically we lost mysticly as in the esoteric secrets that were available in the 1800's in the East have been surpressed and what was hard to find is almost impossible today... Laura does defy this statement as her work is the impossible come to life.

I think it's quite obvious that Gurdjieff only shared a fraction of what he knew, so just because he did not state certain things explicitly does not mean that he was unaware of them.

 

[RflctnOfU]

He has referenced that we are " Food for the moon" which indicates that there are outside forces that act on our planet. It makes sense that back in the late 1800's and early 1900's the sciences were not developed like they are today so that is one way he could not of had all the information. I haven't come across any info about G talking about Karma and I myself have yet to wrap my head around the whole idea.

Any info or links that teach its concepts are much appreciated.

I do believe in this present day what we gained scientifically we lost mysticly as in the esoteric secrets that were available in the 1800's in the East have been surpressed and what was hard to find is almost impossible today... Laura does defy this statement as her work is the impossible come to life.

I think it's quite obvious that Gurdjieff only shared a fraction of what he knew, so just because he did not state certain things explicitly does not mean that he was unaware of them.

I agree with anart here. I remember reading a quote that he deliberately put enough pieces of the puzzle 'out there' through his 'scatter-brained trick', that the whole picture could be reconstructed....through sincere effort to understand. There really are great sources to go to. Beelzebub's Tales, first and foremost. To a lesser degree, Meetings, and Life is Real - if only because of the revision that has taken place. Orage's Commentary on the Tales is quite valuable. Also the journals that his pupils wrote regarding thier time spent with G.

Menna, keep in mind that the concepts at the core of the work aren't really ideas that can be 'precisely' explained. The more clear the explanation, the less it explains. Hence the 'idee fixee' comments from Life is Real... It's all there in the Tales. But, from my experience with struggling to understand Beelzebub, it does take time for the ideas to 'sink in'. Good Luck!!
:D

Kris

 

[Menna]

Anart - Yes that makes sense he probably knew more then what he wrote in his books and like any teacher you arent going to explain/teach all the concepts at once or the complex ones at first until you are confident the students get it and G was never confident that his students got it so he must have never told of all his concepts.

Thank you for the Karma info. Makes sense once you set something in motions it creates ripples like a pebble thrown into a lake and you are motivated and propelled by past actions and to stop you need knowledge and better understanding. I know first hand that understanding can help lead to forgiveness.

RflctnOFU - Yes I need to and do let his ideas sink in more I have been reading Life is real on and off for 4 months now because of that simple fact that I feel I need to put it down for a few weeks after I aquire some information from the book in order to let it sink into my being. Also interactions with others and life in general are great teachers and one of the main ways I check and justify/understand these concepts.

The storm has made me realize more and more how people are trapped in their petty lives how everything that happens to them in their mind is a big deal (obviously a distroyed home or a dealth or injury of a another is a big deal) but I am talking about the ones that complain about losing cable/internet/trouble getting gas and then now that the storm is over complaining about others and their work situations. If they could step out of their mind and realize the bigger picture things would be a lot different. I don't even have half of the big picture but feel my actions/thinking have changed alot as of late. The shock of the storm has staid with me longer then any shock has that I can remember. (This is off topic but felt the need to share and didnt want to create a new topic)