Where is Gonzalo Lira? Fears for YouTuber missing in Ukraine's Kharkov article
- Thread starter Meg
- Start date
BHelmet
The Living Force
I’m not assuming anything. It is a “news” release from one single website which is then amplified by dozens of others.
“Tell my sister:”? Who starts a letter that way? No “Dear Dad”? And no “tell her I love her”? As usual, it’s all about Gonzalo. A bizarre impersonal presentation for a guy who should have known he was on death row and perhaps been more emotive.
The penmanship is quite good for a man in distress. I am not an expert but the lines are optimistically angled upward. No cross outs or corrections. No angst. The left margin is insanely perfect. If you are physically stressed, do you really worry about crafting a perfect looking letter?
The letter is not folded to fit in an envelope. Did they provide him with an 8x11 envelope? Did they hand carry it to the US embassy? Did they let Gonzalo walk to the post office box?
Why would you let a political prisoner communicate anything making you look bad? Wouldn’t they sensor his letter? If their intent was to let him die, why offer perform a medical procedure to help him when your own wounded soldiers should be clogging the hospitals with a higher priority?
There is plenty that doesn’t add up and that has always been the case with Gonzalo Lira, painted now as a noble martyred crusader for truth who was just too principled to get out of Ukraine when he could have and who courageously and tragically somehow managed to inform everyone on the internet of his attempt to flee before he actually tried to run for the border in an absolutely brilliant tactical move.
I probably should have included a trigger warning…
“Tell my sister:”? Who starts a letter that way? No “Dear Dad”? And no “tell her I love her”? As usual, it’s all about Gonzalo. A bizarre impersonal presentation for a guy who should have known he was on death row and perhaps been more emotive.
The penmanship is quite good for a man in distress. I am not an expert but the lines are optimistically angled upward. No cross outs or corrections. No angst. The left margin is insanely perfect. If you are physically stressed, do you really worry about crafting a perfect looking letter?
The letter is not folded to fit in an envelope. Did they provide him with an 8x11 envelope? Did they hand carry it to the US embassy? Did they let Gonzalo walk to the post office box?
Why would you let a political prisoner communicate anything making you look bad? Wouldn’t they sensor his letter? If their intent was to let him die, why offer perform a medical procedure to help him when your own wounded soldiers should be clogging the hospitals with a higher priority?
There is plenty that doesn’t add up and that has always been the case with Gonzalo Lira, painted now as a noble martyred crusader for truth who was just too principled to get out of Ukraine when he could have and who courageously and tragically somehow managed to inform everyone on the internet of his attempt to flee before he actually tried to run for the border in an absolutely brilliant tactical move.
I probably should have included a trigger warning…
Evan
The Living Force
I’m not saying that we should assume anything (if your response was directed at me BH), I was just contributing to the thread. I agree that there’re a lot of inconsistencies. Scott Ritter hasn’t said anything since the announcement, but I know he was quite vocal about thinking Lira was shady. In fact he downright disliked the guy. I recall him speculating that he was at the least controlled opposition, and possibly even a Ukrainian agent of some sort. There are a lot of questions. I believe his wife is Ukrainian, and that is why he was living there for at least the past two decades. As far as I know the letter was given to his attorney to give to his father. That’s the story anyway. It does appear his father believes he’s dead, but if he was a “double agent”, maybe Zelensky decided he didn’t need him anymore? I know the creature known as Sarah Ashton-Cirillo did say at some point “We have him”. But whatever else is going on behind it is all open to questions. Maybe we should ask the Cs (though does this really qualify as worthy of the time)? I for one would love to hear the answer. But I hardly qualify.
I hope I avoided any further triggers.
I hope I avoided any further triggers.
BHelmet
The Living Force
No Evan, nothing directed an anyone in particular. Just sharing a contrarian perspective that hopefully involves some critical thinking. So many areas these days where I am asking what do we really know? What we know is we are being told stuff. Whether it is true is another matter.
BHelmet
The Living Force
Then there is the Grayzone itself. Started and edited by Max Blumenthal, whose dad was a confidante and operative of Hillary and Bill. Interestingly I found a Grayzone article criticizing the Daily Beast as a CIA mouthpiece. Lo and behold, Max was a writer for the Beast. It doesn’t prove anything but it is a piece of relevant data to be noted.
drWeller
The Force is Strong With This One
The main Grayzone website has posted it, it's right on their main page taking half of the screen space and if to believe the date in the article it was posted 12th january:
American citizen Gonzalo Lira dies from neglect in Ukrainian prison - The Grayzone
Gonzalo Lira, a prominent commentator on the Russia-Ukraine war imprisoned in Ukraine for speech critical of the country’s government, has died after weeks of medical neglect by Ukrainian authorities. Chilean-American war commentator Gonzalo Lira died shortly before noon on January, 11, 2024 at...
thegrayzone.com
And to compare I just checked again the 2 main American mainstream bins CNN and Fox both their websites and youtube channels. Still nothing. It seems Tucker was the only driving force for Fox for real, after his leave they comepleted their transformation into a full-fledged Neocon circus.
And need tonote here that it was almost 2 days already since the american citizen died in a foreign prison, in which he was placed without solid evidence and was probably subjected to torture. The Neocons don't care, the propaganda outlets are silent and I haven't heard any comments from their top politicians either. Has ANY neocon politician even commented it?
Even some little mayor of some remote redneck village in the bottom of Grand Canyon where lives only him and his beloved goat. Even such unimportant characters prefer not to notice these things coz it's bad for the current agenda in the US. LoL, the "saint" Zelensky's regime can't be bad, better not to talk about it, it's probably another Russian propaganda so let's just forget it even happened. Politics is more important than people in the modern US reality, now they should tell us how the USSR was evil and didn't care about their own people.
drWeller
The Force is Strong With This One
I personally come from a family with significant political ties in our region. All my relatives are in the state service one way or another, I have everything: several brothers police officers, parents working in the court, lawyers, 2 detectives, an FBI agent, e.t.c. my uncle is a deputy of the local parliament, my grandfather was an important communis party figure furing the USSR and since childhood I have been imbued with this atmosphere when the most important people of the region sit in your kitchen and discuss their affairs, and you play computer games in the next room listening to their conversations.
I am not saying that Max Blumenthal went the same way as me, but I can say by my example that growing up in this atmosphere from the earliest years you become imbued with hatred for hypocrisy and politicians, because you know their downside hidden from the masses and understand who they really are. The TRUTH becomes the most desired thing in your social life and you don't really trust anyone even if they look fine. Actually the more saint someone looks the more chances that he's the worst person. This path led me to this forum and shaped my worldview as a whole. I would love to do the same thing that the guys from Greyzone are doing even if my father was Barack Obama. Heck them all.
SubnetUnMask
Jedi
Lira had a good intellect, was a talented orator, and a decently tuned BS meter - but I have no idea why he decided to stay in Ukraine for so long. Apparently there was a group of people trying to get him out and he decided to go his own way, as he noted in his last video, which didn't work out :/ I think his ego and love for attention may have gotten in the way of making a more rational decision.
That's a good assessment, imo.
There is also this substack article circulating on the Russian TG.
Gonzalo Lira's torturers were allegedly trying to extort $500,000 from him, and killed him after he told his lawyer. (The US embassy was trying to deal with it.)
From Alina Lipp, reporting these latest revelations, or claims, on Telegram
markcrispinmiller.substack.com
It's possible that during his first arrest (probably or possible not on any political grounds, but for some immigration issue or something similar) he also paid money and that's why was let go. It also seems that after this first arrest he was given a big hint to leave the country and not come back. Which he unfortunately didn't use. And afterwards shared online his attempt to cross the border, instead of doing it quietly.
There is no doubt that Ukrainians are to blame and this story should be spread far and wide. But it's very sad that Gonzalo's personality led him to suffer so greatly.
Olivierlejardinier
Jedi Council Member
In the following video, the author claims he'd been contacted by Gonzalo Lira during his last "free time" at the end of july. Lira was asking for any help/contact to escape Ukraine. Dima, the YT journalist, speculates that this was all teleguided by SBU/Ukraine, using Gonzalo as a bait to discover "traitors"...
From here:
"
Details of the murder of American blogger Gonzalo Lira in a Ukrainian pre-trial detention center.
10:05 15.01.2024
Details of the murder of American blogger Gonzalo Lira in a Ukrainian pre-trial detention center.
During his lifetime, Gonzalo Lira had the opportunity to report his torment behind bars. On his pages on social networks, he described in detail the bullying and torture that was used on him: beatings for two days, damaging his eyeball with a toothpick and other torture, breaking ribs.
But even the US Embassy didn't care. Neither the ambassadors, nor the consuls, nor the journalists were concerned about the salvation of Private Lyra.
The blogger was simply killed in a Ukrainian pre-trial detention center. Now imagine WHAT they do with the lesser-known ordinary political prisoners in Zelensky’s dungeons! It is obvious that Zelensky himself is a bloody executioner and a sophisticated dictator. In whose prisons people are beaten to death."
Just a note that his first arrest was much earlier than this. It's the arrest when he first disappeared and when he reappeared, he showed "proof" of the arrest to Alex Christoforou from the Duran. It was a paper full of stamps and signatures and nondisclosure agreement regarding details of the investigation.
German journalist in Donestsk, Alina Lipp, claimed on a Telegram channel - without source attribution - that Lira was murdered over money:
[Via Mark Crispin Miller's substack]
[Via Mark Crispin Miller's substack]
