Why are you single?

[Harold]

Hello Menna and everyone on this thread. Menna I have so enjoyed this thread, thank-you for your contribution, I am able to relate to the several topics that have come up on this thread. Since I really relate to you I would like to add my experiences and comments.

On more than one occasion in my life I have trained, worked, learned etc. to achieve goals at personal and professional levels, only to quit or leave it behind me realizing that I either did not want to continue or that my goal was reached. It has just been since my 40's.... the last 5 or so years, that I have begun to look back and not call myself a quitter or a loser..... but a liver of life. Looking at my life during these times of change, as time passed by in a linear fashion, it did not make sense.... especially to those around me, I was often confused too. But now looking back on it all as a whole, more laterally, I see all the wonderful experiences, the hurt, the victories, the losses.... I see that I would not be where I am today without those yesterdays. At the time I was just trying to consider my heart and not just my head alone. Always being harassed for wearing my heart on my sleeve and being a easy mark, but I was always stubborn and determined not to forsake my heart.
So I say to you Meena, listen to who you want to listen to, trust who you want to trust, quit if you want to quit, you will not have all the answers all the time. Also keep in mind that goals and achievements, that you have been working diligently on to accomplish and then become not so important at the time, may (or may not) become important to your future in some other way you may or may not have imagined as of yet.
For example; I see the reactions of others to my decisions over the years and have learned a great deal about the character of those around me. But this knowledge did not come to me at the time these experiences were taking place.
In my 20's and 30's I adopted a strict philosophical approach to life. This was out of a desire to survive, as my survival was in jeopardy through out those years. Not that it isn't in jeopardy any more...lol... just allot different. But my point is that I followed the mantra of..."suit up and show up"...and "just do whats before you". I look back on this approach to life and I find that I am more than satisfied with the outcome..... I'm still here!

So best wishes to you in the days and months to come, as the C's say.... 'learning is fun!'

What I have said above, I will say the same thing for your avatar, now that I have gotten to know you a little.... fwiw..... I like it!

As for the 'being single' thing, I have allot of experience with this. I basically use a little intuition with each situation. I take into consideration 'who' is asking this question and in what context. I have a couple of pattern responses I noticed I use often like..."these days, I'm so busy I'm just not into it" and "I have had a number of back to back relationships that did not go well, so I have got the message that relationships are not my thing right now."

I also have the no kids syndrome, that for me is allot more difficult to deal with, as I do question my decision on this. I am a family person and would love to bring up children, but my ideals (no partner, crappy world) have always gotten the better of me. For me I have no plans to bring up a child without a partner. So far that is what has happened. But I would like to think that I would role with the punches if that were to change.

So one last thing here.... mirroring..... I do have a full understanding of mirroring.... to me.... or at least I thought I did. For me mirroring is everywhere. There is, as Laura has pointed out, a boundary as to specific modes of mirroring to be employed by certain individuals with certain accreditation, here in the forum. I honestly do not know where these boundary's lie exactly. I have ascertained these boundaries to the best of my knowledge and have consciously not crossed them. If I am mistaken as demonstrated in my response here, I am happy to adjust my comments, but I hope I am doing well, and am viewed as respecting the rules.

One last comment; on certain occasions, I have felt that I am in the presence of your run of the mill STS, you-know-what disturber. When they begin to ask questions about being single, I have, on a couple of occasions, treated them like they are the sincere wonderful person they are pretending to be. I would go into a very truthful, lengthy, painfully long point by point explanation of each of my past few relationships. I then observe, as to how quick they try to change the conversation, or if they are who they say they are, I am happily proven wrong and take note. Then again who knows what a persons orientation really is, but I do try to ascertain who is who, but sometimes it seems to change daily. And depending who is under who's influence. Or who is under what influence. It is all very subtle, dynamic and fluid. And keeps one on their toes so to speak. What a game it is eh!

Take care all, I'm thankful to read your experiences and advice.

Cheers!

 

[Menna]

Hey, Horold thanks for your response. I do try and step back every now and then - almost step outside my life and look in and try and see the trends and the patterns. Why this and that happened. Learning can be frustrating at times - when mistakes are made but it can also be fun like you said.

 

[Faith]

I changed my nickname

There are synchronisation-issues, that bother me lately: 'everyday lies' versus 'true self-developement'. This post will distract me even more. I have to force myself to write it down, because I feel all this is probably the most important thing in my life. (I feel this network is... I don't know how to put it... holy, in a way. It's strange that I am using words like this: 'holy' I am not religious, definitely not!) . My last experiences in this thread go deep. After we discovered the narcissistic wounding-programes, that influenced my thinking and arguing in this thread -- 'identifying with 'being not normal' -- I experienced a mind of state, that allowed me to focus on external consideration more clearly. To be honest: I didn't plan to be more external considering. It simply was the result of being in peace with myself. I saw the people and actions around me more clearly, without judging. I think that's exactly the point. People around me recognized it in a positive way, unwittingly I guess. It was more the expression of interacting, that felt healthy in a way. They started acting positively as well. I believe what I have experienced was a foretaste of the ideal state of being. Unfortunately it did not last long. During that time I understood, what Gurdjieff meant by 'being perfectly happy: internal consideration never -- external consideration ever. If you are perfectly consistent with yourself, you can truly external considerate. Pure external consideration means pure living, feeding yourself off ' being part of external life', 'interaction' of 'joining the others', 'Acting externally constructive' strange sadness! Whenever I start arguing against other people I remember what kenlee wrote in his touching post about 'those others' about 'normal people'. It helps me un-identifying. Just See -- Feel -- Know -- Be -- Act as a perfect part. It's all about the moment. It's all about You, about Now. It's about being a perfect part in a (w)holistic way.

My little 'vacation' lasted a couple of days, then the most frightening ego-defense-programes kicked in. I'd like to label them 'paranoia-programes': This time they collaborated the very first time! Hypochondria-program, which has been replaced by frakking-alien-gray-abduction-program a couple of years ago and last but not least... guess what? FEAR OF GOD-program. Can you believe this? Which god, you might ask. Now I know that these three must share the same source. They allways have been swapping places with each other, playing musical chairs, so to speak. Now they have finally pooled forces, joined together in order to... show me that they are all the same! Heheh... gotcha. But they are still in charge. The only way to get rid of them momentarily was to duck, fall asleep once again. I definitely was afraid of bringing my life in danger, if I kept going.

:/ Here are my fears in detail: A couple of years ago, when I held a certain TV-remote-control in my hand, I felt some kind of radiation in my phalanges, sort of ultra-fine vibration. I started experimenting a bit and I found out that animals are also sensitive to it. Last time I felted the radiation when I was holding my cellphone in my right hand longer than usual. Most humans have always found it odd, whenever I told them about these effects. Only one has felted it as well, even more clearly! This person gets a headache, when he is using a cellphone. He must keep it brief, no matter if he calls or if he is called. The morning after my 'vacation' I still had a slight, superficial headache on the left side of my head. It started the evening before, caused by some weather-fx as usual. Some people around me were suffering quite similar symptoms. Normally it's gone after a good night sleep. But I believe I had experienced some kind of nightmare that I do not remember. Usually I wake up and think: "Thanks god, it was just a bad dream!" -- This time it was exactly the other way around. I had the strong and frightening feeling that the bad dream continues. The horror-trip continues! My mind felt drugged or even worse: disturbed by some subtle mailfunctions that started effecting my feelings -- very scary. I thought: The worst thing someone could do to me is to make me going nuts. The worst thing would be a brain-tumor! Frak! Here we go. It's the left side of my head, the one that touches the wireless telephone, that I am using very, very often. What if 'they' are watching me right now. Maybe they detected some kind of potential that I don't even know of. They could poison me via telephone, make use of my bad habit. Braincancer never looks like murder. What a horrifying consideration. What would be left if you were suffering some kind of brain damage. Would it also effect the essence? Would it turn out that you are just a damaged machine or would there be more. What would survive. What would be left of you? I experienced a disturbed state of being, not unlike the one I experienced short after my first mirroring: being torn between strange old and strange new, not knowing where I's belong. Everything felted poisonous. I turned my back on god, society, every day life, and that's what I get in exchange. I turned my back on god? Are those my thoughts? I decided to tell people this radiation-brain-damage-issue, half in jest of course. If I am ought to end this way, then I want it to look like murder. It would be too obvious, wouldn't it? I guess if they were that powerfull they would have avoided my very birth.

I guess, I can't keep sitting between chairs. I can't get the new and keep the old. Maybe this is the issue here, like gurdjieff says, when he describes the group members, who went astray, the two friends. I don't want to loose it. I just don't know how to handle it.

What I experienced before my downfall, was just a momentary lapse of dreaming, the faintest idea of what might be a 'true life experience'. Maybe I was just dreaming of being awake, I can't tell... but I can! IMHO I was not dreaming, at least I seemed to be more awake. All I've truly got is 'trying to be honest'. It's all I've ever got and I hope it's not an illusion. It's all I've got -- ghost in the shell. This is the only thing I can count on. Those are my facts!

Anart, this is for you: It's a confused mind, that is deeply greatfull for being touched by a true human, a human being, that knows the healthy direction, whose meaning is stronger than her words.

However, it's a squarish description for a circular form. I hope there is something in it, you can work with.

 

[anart]

What I experienced before my downfall, was just a momentary lapse of dreaming, the faintest idea of what might be a 'true life experience'.

Remember that if you see it once, you can see it again. If you continue on with your work, it will occur more often until it becomes regular. It sounds like your experience was not an illusion, 'Luba' - you could, for that time, see more clearly. Now you know it is possible, that can be a powerful motivator if you don't forget it. =)

Anart, this is for you: It's a confused mind, that is deeply greatfull for being touched by a true human, a human being, that knows the healthy direction, whose meaning is stronger than her words.

However, it's a squarish description for a circular form. I hope there is something in it, you can work with.

Yes, thank you, Luba - and, also remember - it works both ways. It is the 'confused mind' that is willing to consider, think and struggle that gives me hope. It's difficult to express without sounding 'airy fairy', but, suffice it to say that one person's gain is all of our gain - one person's loss is all of our loss. So - your learning, your struggle, your gain benefits me and all of us as well. That applies to everyone here, it could really be no other way, and it's quite something to grasp when one sees it in action.

So, remember it is a spiral staircase, so don't take periods of what seem to be standstill or moving backward as signs of failure, just keep putting one foot in front of the other, keep your mind open, keep thinking and struggling against those parts of yourself that are small. The parts of yourself that are great will make their way through.

 

[combsbt]

I guess, I can't keep sitting between chairs. I can't get the new and keep the old. Maybe this is the issue here, like gurdjieff says, when he describes the group members, who went astray, the two friends. I don't want to loose it. I just don't know how to handle it.

Hi Luba, I think you've made an important observation here, and it is something I find myself struggling with as well. The old mechanical aspects of our personalities can sometimes be really easy to spot, but really really hard to give up. This is from In Search of the Miraculous:

But it is not necessary for a seed, just because it is a seed, to become a tree. Every seed is entitled to be a tree, but they don’t become. Although the seed has the potential to be a tree, it is also necessary to sow it and to fertilize it. It is necessary for the seed to break up, to disintegrate and to die as a seed so that it can become a tree. Only that seed is transformed into a tree which is ready to disintegrate and disappear into the soil. And if we look at the tree and the seed together, placed side by side, it is difficult to believe, how a tiny seed could turn into a large tree. It seems impossible.

It is easy to get scared when you are required to put everything in your world at stake. It is also hard to fathom the tree that exists in potential within us.

This too is a kind of death. If the energy within is awakened, you will die as you are right now and a totally new individual will be born – an individual that you never were before awakening. And it is this fear that prevents people from becoming religious. It is the same fear which, if it grips a seed, prevents it from becoming a tree. Now the greatest danger facing a seed is that it will be buried in the soil, it will be treated with water and manure and then it will die as a seed. It is again the same danger that faces an egg when it grows and breaks its shell. Then it has to die as an egg so that it becomes a bird. In the same way we are in the preceding state of something yet to be born. We are like an egg which is going to become a bird. But we take the egg to be everything and nestle down in it.

As long as there is anything left of the false personality, anything mechanical left in us, we are still gripped by this fear. I think the "paranoia programs" you've recognized are based in this fear. You've identified the problem I think.

What I experienced before my downfall, was just a momentary lapse of dreaming, the faintest idea of what might be a 'true life experience'.

Remember that if you see it once, you can see it again. If you continue on with your work, it will occur more often until it becomes regular. It sounds like your experience was not an illusion, 'Luba' - you could, for that time, see more clearly. Now you know it is possible, that can be a powerful motivator if you don't forget it. =)

This is encouraging. I too have had a faint glimpse, and I don't think that mine nor yours was just a lapse of dreaming although it's easy to look back in disbelief and rationalize it as such. Perhaps, as a seed, you've truly seen the tree. Time to continue working and possibly, another glimpse will come.

 

[Faith]

If you managed to get here, ask a debtor :)

So there are two worlds: The 'dreamworld' that is called 'reality' and 'reality' that is called the 'dreamworld'. What seems difficult about synchronizing these two, is the observable fact, that 'true health' looks like an evil sickness to those, who are afraid (like myself) -- all the paranoia-programes are running to prevent you from dying, NO: from growing. The seeds that could become a tree, if they just stopped identifying with being a seed. That is what convinced me most, the bad habit of uncontrolled identifying with whatever I think is important right now. It makes me fall asleep, taking the tree for the entire forest (and the forest is deep!) Between me and Laura, there are dimensions and universes of high strangeness. I don't know if I could ever figure it out. But I probably could become a little more -- I could become a real human, like Pinocchio, and stop being a wooden puppet. How long do you think a nose must get to make you a real human?

I see the shells surface, the final obstacle! As an artistic kind of person I allways tried to be most original, most virtuous, most meaningfull like my ancestors from the golden age, the ones I look up to: Mucha, Norman Rockwell, Maxfield Parish, J.C. Leyendecker, Andrew Wyeth, J.C Wyeth... the Wyeth Family, Koch Gotha, Adolf Menzel, Heinrich Kley, Wincor Mc Cay, John Burkey, Franklin Booth, to name a few... and my big brother, who opened that door to the past, long before I could even think straight. This is my brothers library, the golden-age-bookcase. For me he is the keeper of true artistic knowledge and more... But there are also the new ones: Moebius, Katsuhiro Otomo, Satoshi Kon, Nicolas de Crécy and many more -- I don't want to bother you any longer with these personal 'belongings'. I am deeply identified with this and I want to show you this! But now I have learned that uncontrolled identification with these beautiful images can easily become an unhealthy obsession.

I allways tried to honestly walk the path of great expression. And now that I read your post, that I read the Search of the Miraculous, I think I've learned, that the most virtuous, the most original, most expressive thing a human seed can do is 'becoming a tree'.

I want to try it. Why not let it all go, burn the 'personal belongings' down and see what happens. If Gurdjieff is right and it damn looks that way, everything I would give up is just what I wishfully think is mine. I say to myself: Let's stop talking squarish -- let's start being circular. Let's balance it out! All you different I's, lets become one, let's pool our forces! After all the external bloodshed of historic revolutions it finally seems to be the inner revolution that may balance it out, spread via network. One 'I' wants to end the ratrace, see it grow, like the hobbits do. What about you? :)

Do you think that could work? :D

 

[Faith]

sorry for the confusion, but 'Luba' does not work for me either. Actually I like 'floetus', a nickname that was given to me and it's just paranoia that makes me change it. Gurdjieff said a persons nickname can tell you a lot of true things about that person. It's about how others may see me. So... let's keep it that way... for now ;)

on the other hand: The guy who gave me that name and who alone calls me that (along with his subjects) is a man, who is strongly suspected to be a Narcissus! if not worse. Oh damn! I was used to call him my 'little tyrant' (while I was reading 'the Wave'), a man who loves to mirror people for the benefit of self-enlargement, for fun: He says things like:"Look out! I can destroy you if I want!" He definitely uses everything he knows about you AGAINST you! He had a strong influence on me -- a true vampire! Believe me when I am saying this! But I used him in a way. I used him as an indicator for my different weaknesses. I learned that I could never change him -- so I tried to change myself! Can you believe that! I am perfectly convinced! When I read 'the Wave' it proved it right. My closest friends never called me that way! My closest friends call me by the short of my real name. They have allways found it odd calling me that way! WOW! FRAK! It couldn't be more obvious! Damn, Gurdjieff was right! I need another nickname.

 

[Faith]

:O This guy really is powerfull. He is a leading person, power-hungry and he is good, very eloquent, very charming if he wants. He has a sixth sense for the weaknesses of other people. He does not look that way, he acts that way. I watched him once, when he listened to the personal problems of a friend, who honestly communicated her deepest feelings and thoughts, while he made jokes about it, but you know: It's just him. You admire him or you hate him, you know. He is interesting. He is dangerous. He is kind of ruthless. But I want to honor him -- he is my little tyrant. I respect him. I... whats going on?

Tell you what: I believe, you can see it in their eyes. It's a subtle glance of infinite unscrupulousness. It's frightening. It's the black-holish coldness, I find in the big black eyes of those frakking Grays, the very demons of our time!

 

[vinny]

sorry for the confusion, but 'Luba' does not work for me either. Actually I like 'floetus', a nickname that was given to me and it's just paranoia that makes me change it. Gurdjieff said a persons nickname can tell you a lot of true things about that person. It's about how others may see me. So... let's keep it that way... for now ;)

on the other hand [...]

well... perhaps keeping 'floetus' as your nickname for now, can be useful as an ever-present 'alarm clock'? It will remind you of all you just said, above.

 

[Faith]

...as an ever-present 'alarm clock'? It will remind you of all you just said, above.

Ja, I am still hearing the ringing in my ears. :P I feel it's time to move on, let my old nickname behind, catch a new one. I am not identified with it any longer. Somehow it feels like dead weight. I'd say I've learned that lesson.

 

[combsbt]

I allways tried to honestly walk the path of great expression. And now that I read your post, that I read the Search of the Miraculous, I think I've learned, that the most virtuous, the most original, most expressive thing a human seed can do is 'becoming a tree'.

I want to try it. Why not let it all go, burn the 'personal belongings' down and see what happens. If Gurdjieff is right and it damn looks that way, everything I would give up is just what I wishfully think is mine. I say to myself: Let's stop talking squarish -- let's start being circular. Let's balance it out! All you different I's, lets become one, let's pool our forces! After all the external bloodshed of historic revolutions it finally seems to be the inner revolution that may balance it out, spread via network. One 'I' wants to end the ratrace, see it grow, like the hobbits do. What about you? :)

Do you think that could work? :D

I think you're on the right track here. Becoming unidentified with these 'personal belongings' is required to be able to progress in the Work.


As for your 'little tyrant'. Be it a narcissist, or sociopath, or psychopath, it doesn't sound like a person you want to remain in contact with. Have you read the suggested psychology books? How about Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra Brown? I have to admit that I have not read this one but I've seen it quoted and suggested to people in similar situations as yours.

There is some possibly helpful information in Laura's post here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4835.msg32658#msg32658

 

[Buddy]

There is some possibly helpful information in Laura's post here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4835.msg32658#msg32658

Wow! I just read the thread thanks to your link, Ask_a_debtor. That was a very powerful analysis of an event which had never attracted my attention.

Sometimes I think I want to make templates out of various analytical exposures, tailor them to a certain need in places where 'paths' seem to be active and then do a reverse-Hasbara and post them all over the net at the aforementioned places.

Of course that's not a desirable practice; nor is it an acceptable way of 'representing' the Work, but it sure makes me wonder sometimes.

Thanks for that post. :)

 

[Lauranimal]

There is some possibly helpful information in Laura's post here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4835.msg32658#msg32658

Wow!!! This is a very instructive thread. Thank you to the Mods & forum members who took the time to fully explicate the objective perceptions that revealed a predator in action. This is pure gold!

 

[cubbex]

sorry for the confusion, but 'Luba' does not work for me either. Actually I like 'floetus', a nickname that was given to me and it's just paranoia that makes me change it. Gurdjieff said a persons nickname can tell you a lot of true things about that person. It's about how others may see me. So... let's keep it that way... for now ;)

on the other hand: The guy who gave me that name and who alone calls me that (along with his subjects) is a man, who is strongly suspected to be a Narcissus! if not worse. Oh damn! I was used to call him my 'little tyrant' (while I was reading 'the Wave'), a man who loves to mirror people for the benefit of self-enlargement, for fun: He says things like:"Look out! I can destroy you if I want!" He definitely uses everything he knows about you AGAINST you! He had a strong influence on me -- a true vampire! Believe me when I am saying this! But I used him in a way. I used him as an indicator for my different weaknesses. I learned that I could never change him -- so I tried to change myself! Can you believe that! I am perfectly convinced! When I read 'the Wave' it proved it right. My closest friends never called me that way! My closest friends call me by the short of my real name. They have allways found it odd calling me that way! WOW! FRAK! It couldn't be more obvious! Damn, Gurdjieff was right! I need another nickname.

My father is like that, you don't have to tell him personal thopics or he in future moments, will use them to hurts you, controls you and give you humillation.

But when you know how to use the shield, the guy that suppose to be the king, transforms in to a crying baby that don' know how to play with the people

I came to know my father, and I met him, and I am very dissapointed because hee is very superficial, very cruel , lye to people, at some point I get to hate him, but there is better things to do and thing. He did this to my mom, that's why they get divorced, and he do that again with his new family and with me, that's why I don't let him at least do this to me, He can't now and its funny to look how he tries to gain my friendship with money

And the people say to me, you are not a good guy, you have to love your father, you have to be thankful because what he gives to you, I am thankful with him because because what he gives to me what I need to phisycal survive

 

[Faith]

...Have you read the suggested psychology books? How about Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra Brown? I have to admit that I have not read this one but I've seen it quoted and suggested to people in similar situations as yours.

There is some possibly helpful information in Laura's post here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4835.msg32658#msg32658

This really is an interesting post. Seeing those phenomenons from a female point of view is also very enlightening, since society still is dominated by men (who want to catch women's fancy). The different behavior patterns connected to this issue, the healthy and unhealthy, definitely effect all men and women, including the more or less ponerized or wounded ones. I am going to read all these suggested psychology books right after I finished 'The Search of the Miraculous'. 'Political Ponerology' will then be the final book. This is gonna be an adventurous journey into the predatory depth of the psychic jungle. I am curious which of my I's is going to survive this.

Is there also a book like ‘How to Spot a Dangerous Woman Before You Get Involved’? This would be also very helpfull for the cases, where it's the other way around :)