Why don't the STS feed on " good feelings "?

[Kisito]

I understood that the STS feed only on our bad feelings (fear, hatred). I would like to know why?
If the " good feelings do not serve foods, to which are they of use ? Were the STS conscious of the creation of its " good feelings "?

 

[Carl]

I understood that the STS feed only on our bad feelings (fear, hatred). I would like to know why?
If the " good feelings do not serve foods, to which are they of use ? Were the STS conscious of the creation of its " good feelings "?

If you mean the kind of peaceful, happy kind of feeling you get when sitting out in nature, then this is probably a little different and not as palatable to the taste of these hypothetical lizzies. However, some of the "highs" of every day life are perfect feeding and misdirection mechanisms.

Have you ever been in a situation where you've been manipulated through various "highs" and "lows", and felt drained after it? This tends to be how the program operates.

I recommend The Wave book 8 which discusses this in depth, as well as Thinking Fast and Slow for more real world applications.

 

[Kisito]

I understood that the STS feed only on our bad feelings (fear, hatred). I would like to know why?
If the " good feelings do not serve foods, to which are they of use ? Were the STS conscious of the creation of its " good feelings "?

If you mean the kind of peaceful, happy kind of feeling you get when sitting out in nature, then this is probably a little different and not as palatable to the taste of these hypothetical lizzies. However, some of the "highs" of every day life are perfect feeding and misdirection mechanisms.

Have you ever been in a situation where you've been manipulated through various "highs" and "lows", and felt drained after it? This tends to be how the program operates.

I recommend The Wave book 8 which discusses this in depth, as well as Thinking Fast and Slow for more real world applications.

Hello Carlisle, thank you for your answer. I speak feelings of enjoyments and not those of serenities. Yes I was already emptied, and I noticed that we have more energies when we are happy that that we are depressed... It is not because I would want to quote V. Zeland, I remain so sceptical in his(her,its) theory of pendulums, but I often notice that to master badly its happiness we fall over more easily to the misfortune.
I have not read the last three volumes of the wave yet, they are not translated into French. But I am really excited to know that the volume 8 speaks about this subject.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Well the C's have indicated that STS feed on energy emitted from orgasms too. They are technically "good" feelings but borne out of an STS activity/aim. Perhaps feelings arising as a result of concern for others are not as palatable, even if it's "righteous anger" etc?

 

[Laura]

Some love darkness, some love light; you can see living examples of those who love darkness in psychopathic sadists who derive enjoyment from seeing (or making) others suffer. It's kind of the definition of STS which is totally self-directed. If they fed on good feelings, that would mean that the person having the good feelings would be being "fed" also.

 

[cubbex]

But as far as I remember, is not that they directly feed from the orgasm but by the consequences it has having orgasms constantly, the withdrawal and the sadness or bad moods it produces having low levels of dopamine or having dopamine tolerance. Then by creating negative emotions they produce high amounts of food.

Also the other type of people I know feed or kinda feed from positive feelings, are hardcore narcissists, but these positive feelings most be directed towards them to increase or feed that illusion about themselves.

 

[Kisito]

Thank you very much for your answers, I am going to take time to reflect about it. But maybe I am sad in semantics of the words or it is the linguistic nuances. For example love of the evil or the sadism, I have difficulty in naming that love, but I would name it simply desire of the evil. On the other hand I conceive that the DESIRE (to love or to suffering) cannot be an emotion or a feeling, it is the way leading to the emotion. I also conceive that too much love is the fanaticism and that it cannot be any a good emotion. So when I reflected it seems to me that to be STO you would should have no emotion, or to know all to channel them in the only one who would be the serenity. So I have the impression that is all the feelings are definitive bad, because they come all of the desire (implanted or trapped by the STS), and if that was the case why the STS would choose the pessimistic feelings rather than optimists? I hope that I was not too vague.

 

[cubbex]

I think you need to study more about it from the perspective or the study of psychopathy and narcissism, to give you an idea. Because a real egocentric person or someone that services to the self only, is rarely pessimistic, from what I know, the most pessimistic people are those capable of perceiving better the situation, and that gives them sadness.

 

[Tigersoap]

So when I reflected it seems to me that to be STO you would should have no emotion, or to know all to channel them in the only one who would be the serenity. So I have the impression that is all the feelings are definitive bad, because they come all of the desire (implanted or trapped by the STS), and if that was the case why the STS would choose the pessimistic feelings rather than optimists? I hope that I was not too vague.

I don't think you should suppress your emotions at all but learn how to express them healthily.
Repressing your emotions would be detrimental to your physical & mental health in the long run.

There are a lot of very practical tips in the Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering Thread.

 

[Kisito]

I think you need to study more about it from the perspective or the study of psychopathy and narcissism, to give you an idea. Because a real egocentric person or someone that services to the self only, is rarely pessimistic, from what I know, the most pessimistic people are those capable of perceiving better the situation, and that gives them sadness.

I agree with this

So when I reflected it seems to me that to be STO you would should have no emotion, or to know all to channel them in the only one who would be the serenity. So I have the impression that is all the feelings are definitive bad, because they come all of the desire (implanted or trapped by the STS), and if that was the case why the STS would choose the pessimistic feelings rather than optimists? I hope that I was not too vague.

I don't think you should suppress your emotions at all but learn how to express them healthily.
Repressing your emotions would be detrimental to your physical & mental health in the long run.

There are a lot of very practical tips in the Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering Thread.

I also think that it is not good to repress its feelings, because we have to study them to finish our karma. But I tried to say that once the work makes on the knowledge of the world through the karmic cycle of the desires, the feelings should inhibit. It is in this fact that I think that STO have no feelings or at least they are quite combined in the only one, who is the serenity.

 

[Nienna]

So when I reflected it seems to me that to be STO you would should have no emotion, or to know all to channel them in the only one who would be the serenity. So I have the impression that is all the feelings are definitive bad, because they come all of the desire (implanted or trapped by the STS), and if that was the case why the STS would choose the pessimistic feelings rather than optimists? I hope that I was not too vague.

If you remember in the sessions, the Cs do have a sense of humor. :)

As far as it is better to have no emotion, in the 4th Way Work, it is more being in control of your emotions. If you take the analogy of horses as our emotions, you don't want the horses running wild pulling the carriage and the driver all over the place willy-nilly. You want the horses to be controlled by the driver, doing as they are told. Having raging emotions is not what we want, nor is it very STO. But being in control of our emotions and using them to do our bidding is what I think is what we are looking for.

 

[Menna]

I also think that it is not good to repress its feelings, because we have to study them to finish our karma. But I tried to say that once the work makes on the knowledge of the world through the karmic cycle of the desires, the feelings should inhibit

Correct me if im wrong but Karma is a belief system and beliefs are not objective truths...(if I am wrong please point me to where I can brush up on karma if I am I was interested in it did some research and that is what I came up with but that was years ago)

I think its important to identify what is a "positive" emotion and what is a "negative" emotion. Emotions that seem positive could have negative origins and are masked as positive when they are really negative. Also "positive" emotions that are called positive by our society, other people and different paradigms might not be positive at all. To answer your question I believe that positive emotions or balanced emotions are not edible to them. To me its kind of like asking why do humans eat animals and plants but not metal or brick.

 

[H-KQGE]

Here is the Cassiopedia entry on "Karma and the Principle of Equilibrium." I'm quoting the first portion as a background to the concept.

Karma and the Principle Of Equilibrium

The following is but one simplistic interpretation of Gurdjieffs cosmology. This brief description, that is written below, is given so it can be used as a frame of reference to better understand the 'Principle Of Equilibrium' that is described by Boris Mouravieff. Excerpts from Mouravieff's book on the 'Principle Of Equilibrium' is also given below.

In the Gurdjieff cosmology, before the creation of the universe, there existed a primordial state of things that he called 'The Absolute' or 'Endlessness' where All was One and One was All. The Absolute was completely independent. There was only one Law in the Absolute, that is, the Absolute was a law unto itself. It depended on nothing external to itself and was completely self sufficient.

However, in order for The Absolute to create anything it needed a residence or "sole point of concentration" to focus its creative activity.

The Absolute then 'begot' a "local residence" that Gurdjieff called the 'Sun Absolute' (The term "begot" is used here since this was all before the creation of the Universe).

The Sun Absolute was held together and maintained by independent forces that consisted of two interlocking laws. In the Sun Absolute these two laws, 'The Law Of Three' and 'The Law Of Seven', were perfectly balanced with respect to each other. This perfect blending of these two primordial Laws is what kept the Sun Absolute stable without any need for influences from outside to sustain it

However, nothing ever could change in the Sun Absolute since it was perfectly balanced and static. Nothing could happen there since the Sun Absolute was in a pure potential state of 'Eternal Unchanging.'

In order for anything to happen within the Sun Absolute, that is, in order for The Absolute to create anything, then the infinitude of potentialities that comprised it would have to give way to the finitude of actualization. This dynamism is what Gurdjieff called the "merciless Heropass," that is, this is what he called the FLOW OF TIME. The diminution of potentialities that would result whenever anything 'happened' or was 'actualized' within the Sun Absolute, threatened the infinite reservoir of potentialities existing within it, thereby threatening to diminish the volume of the Sun Absolute itself.

The Sun Absolute was now threatened by the "merciless" flow of Time.

In order for the Sun Absolute to maintain its infinite state of potential so as not to suffer a progressive diminuation of potentialities due to their actualization, the Absolute, out of necessity, adjusted or modified the two fundamental laws that comprised the Sun Absolute, so that any created thing would send a counter flow of energy back into the Sun Absolute and maintain its existing (potential) state over time.

It was from this changing of these two fundamental laws, where they no longer operated independently but were now dependent on outside forces, that the original independent maintenance of the Sun Absolute became altered into a mutual exchange of force with all created materials.

The result of changing the function of these two fundamental laws directed their actions from within the Sun Absolute outwards into the space of the universe. The redirection of these two fundamental laws outwardly, by the Will of the Absolute, is what Gurdjieff calls the "Theomertmalogos or Word-God," which is, according to Gurdjieff, an "'Emanation-of-the-Sun-Absolute'" which is an 'utterance' or vibration which organizes the undifferentiated Etherkrilno into repeating yet varying patterns of matter/form. This sound vibration, like light and all oscillations, is an energy vector that continuously moves from positive to negative through 'zero', the point of equilibriation between those two directions.

Once these two fundamental laws were changed, then the three forces that comprised the Law Of Three, which were originally united within the Absolute, were now SEPARATED from each other in the phenomenal universe, since they are no longer part of one Whole and can now only be brought together by the PARTS of the whole, due to the division and differentiation that arises from the diversity of phenomenon that comprise the existing universe.

The separation of these three forces, which caused creation, would now spark an inherent striving for these three forces to REBLEND and be reconciled back into the primordial perfection and unification of the Absolute.

Thus, for the ABSOLUTE the three forces are united. But for the UNIVERSE the three forces are separated, and always striving for an equilibration that mirrors their unity within the Absolute.

After that are excerpts from Mouravieff's book "Gnosis", these relate to The Principle Of Equilibrium and the Law Of Karma. The end, especially the last paragraph, is where you'll find it (karma) mentioned perhaps more clearer. That said, the above quoted & the Mouravieff section (in other words the whole page entry) immediately after it is necessary IMO. I would also bookmark "Cassiopedia" as well. Hope that helps.

 

[luc]

I think its important to identify what is a "positive" emotion and what is a "negative" emotion. Emotions that seem positive could have negative origins and are masked as positive when they are really negative. Also "positive" emotions that are called positive by our society, other people and different paradigms might not be positive at all. To answer your question I believe that positive emotions or balanced emotions are not edible to them. To me its kind of like asking why do humans eat animals and plants but not metal or brick.

I think that's very spot on.

What I try to do with "positive emotions" is to figure out whether they merely come from a dopamine rush that is produced as an "instant reward" (for example after eating something bad, mindlessly browsing the web, being lazy etc.) or if it's "real". The difference to my experience, at least as a rule of thumb, is that the dopamine style "positive emotions" tend to give instant satisfaction, but leave you drained and worse off afterwards. The "real" positive emotions, I would describe them as a profound calmness, happiness and "unexcited satisfaction", tend to come after a real achievement, when I actually have done something meaningful against my internal resistance. Of course this distinction is not always that clear and there are obviously many "shades".

I guess the same applies for negative emotions - I try to distinguish between negative emotions that are truly unpleasant and which I'm tempted to hide, suppress or rationalize away. These are those negative emotions that actually have a lot of meaning and can lead me somewhere and show me where I need to work on, what childhood trauma I got to look into etc. Then, there are the negative emotions produced by useless "thought loops", as in imagining all kinds of bad things, self-pitty, being over-critically with myself or others, engaging in black and white thinking etc. Paradoxically, these "negative thought loops" tend to also give some sort of instant satisfaction while leaving you drained afterwards, like the "fake positive feelings".

Anyway, the drained feeling after the fact is very real and can show you what kind of emotions lead to entropy. Just some thoughts.

 

[Carl]

I think that's very spot on.

What I try to do with "positive emotions" is to figure out whether they merely come from a dopamine rush that is produced as an "instant reward" (for example after eating something bad, mindlessly browsing the web, being lazy etc.) or if it's "real". The difference to my experience, at least as a rule of thumb, is that the dopamine style "positive emotions" tend to give instant satisfaction, but leave you drained and worse off afterwards. The "real" positive emotions, I would describe them as a profound calmness, happiness and "unexcited satisfaction", tend to come after a real achievement, when I actually have done something meaningful against my internal resistance. Of course this distinction is not always that clear and there are obviously many "shades".

I guess the same applies for negative emotions - I try to distinguish between negative emotions that are truly unpleasant and which I'm tempted to hide, suppress or rationalize away. These are those negative emotions that actually have a lot of meaning and can lead me somewhere and show me where I need to work on, what childhood trauma I got to look into etc. Then, there are the negative emotions produced by useless "thought loops", as in imagining all kinds of bad things, self-pitty, being over-critically with myself or others, engaging in black and white thinking etc. Paradoxically, these "negative thought loops" tend to also give some sort of instant satisfaction while leaving you drained afterwards, like the "fake positive feelings".

Anyway, the drained feeling after the fact is very real and can show you what kind of emotions lead to entropy. Just some thoughts.

Very well explained luc, this is what I was alluding to in my first reply. The difference seems to be that mechanical feelings, whether positive or negative, can be used to energetically drain us. Whereas more conscious feelings, even if negative, can be used to learn and grow and avoid being fed on. And sometimes our 'good' feelings are only there because we've fed on somebody else, unwillingly playing a part in the whole STS life sucking.

It's certainly hard to distinguish the two, but by default we spend nearly all of our time in the former. When feeling drained I find it a good exercise to re-trace my whole day and try to pinpoint the exact moment where I felt like I was losing energy, and what thought loop or interaction was causing it.