Why don't they just kill us?

[Nathan]

Well I must say, this has been a truly fascinating discussion so far. Thank you to everyone for your input.

Free will is a factor, but one I'm sure is ignored by STS. What free will stops us from killing cattle for food? The only cattle we do not eat are the ones who are sick or diseased. But in the same way cattle are diseased, our FRV could appear to be "diseased" from the Lizzies' point of view as we gradually shift more and more out of sync. So maybe it is difficult for Lizzies to get a "fix" on those who are building their impeccability, as EsoQuest said, and who are building their knowledge. The C's have stated over and over that knowledge protects (when applied).

Although there have been no known instances of 4D directly killing 3D (well, so far), even if there was, would we know? Nonetheless, the notion of a Lizzie materialising before you and killing your body is a very "3D" way of looking at things. It probably doesn't occur because it doesn't need to. There are many other mechanisms in place that can achieve the same result with higher efficiency. STS are, after all, concerned with efficient use of their own energy.

Even so, if they could just kill us even then, they would do so as we are in mid stride in our evolution to impeccability. So I would like to suggest that not only can they NOT just kill us, but the cannot as long as we are striving toward knowledge because our energy is constantly on the increase, and they cannot get a "fix" on it.

Could it be that there is a very good reason for why they prefer to not just kill us? By 'us', I mean such an incredible minority of the population that it would hardly affect their supply. So even as a last resort, there is a more efficient and effective option than killing the bodies of those who pose a threat.

John mentioned "wishful thinking", which got me thinking (but hopefully not wishfully!). Not only are we made to feel "simply a thorn in the side of the matrix", "unimportant, replaceable, useless..." as Cricket said, but the Lizzies - in their self-importance, perceived invincibility and success - would believe this. And, as we all know, in 4D - wishful thinking becomes reality. The Lizzies would without a doubt believe they are successful, even if the future is open. And if they're constantly going back and forth setting up events in their favour, something would slip through. Something would escape your notice. So with that in mind, it could be possible for a "thorn in the side of the matrix" to slip through unnoticed, or at least unnoticed until it is too late. The Lizzies, blinded by wishful thinking and not addressing some threats with the seriousness they might deserve, would find that their control could collapse like a house of cards. But maybe this is just my own wishful thinking?

 

[Ruth]

Hmm, sort of like the weather. You push here or pull there, and the whole thing changes unpredictably. You can try to damp the oscillations of the whole system by taking energy out of it, but you can't really control the oscillations. And maybe even that sort of macroscopic control has consequences. I think I'm beginning to get at the "wishful thinking" the C's were mentioning.

Than again, maybe I'm just off target again.

I think the Cs said STS was all about imbalance, and STO created balance.... its kind of weird that this is an exact role reversal in the Matrix series. The Oracle (even though she worked with the The Architect), claimed her job was to 'unbalance' the equation... and he claimed his job was to 'balance' it.... and that this was somehow superior...

Maybe the 'balance' and 'unbalance' have more to do with 'control' in the Matrix Series. STS tries to control/suppress and limit all outcomes. STO is expansive. You may be able to influence the weather, but can you 'control' it. What you put into the system always comes out somewhere else. Somewhere unexpected perhaps? I think the Cs also said that STO can see all possiblities, not just their desired outcomes, or what they wish to see.

 

[Ryan]

Free will is a factor, but one I'm sure is ignored by STS. What free will stops us from killing cattle for food? The only cattle we do not eat are the ones who are sick or diseased. But in the same way cattle are diseased, our FRV could appear to be "diseased" from the Lizzies' point of view as we gradually shift more and more out of sync. So maybe it is difficult for Lizzies to get a "fix" on those who are building their impeccability, as EsoQuest said, and who are building their knowledge. The C's have stated over and over that knowledge protects (when applied).

Although there have been no known instances of 4D directly killing 3D (well, so far), even if there was, would we know? Nonetheless, the notion of a Lizzie materialising before you and killing your body is a very "3D" way of looking at things. It probably doesn't occur because it doesn't need to.

Another (hypothetical) option might be that "they can't". Not because of any fundamental inability, but rather because 4D STO might prevent it. Suppose 4D STS can conserve energy by avoiding direct confrontation with 4D STO by operating within a certain "margin of tolerance" for free will. By utilising the means of indirect "influence" available to them (Predator's Mind etc), 4D STO (which works with complete respect for individual free will) will probably allow such influences because that is part of a soul's choice to incarnate at a 3D STS level.

For example, suppose Fulcanelli achieved the "Great Work" and became 4D STO. Assuming "his" 4D STO self had access to radically different abilities (such as time travel etc), he might then think about travelling back in time and "spoon feeding" information to himself as 3D STS. Oops - that's violating one's own learning cycle - no "short cuts" allowed. So, being 4D STO, he simply watches and restrains himself from any intervention. Then along comes 4D STS and tries to influence him (in 3D) into doing something silly. Again, he is tempted to step in and avert this, but he remembers that by doing that silly thing, he learned a valuable lesson. So again, observation of the natural order is the way to go.

Next let's suppose that 4D STS, realising that Fulcanelli is very close to achieving the Great Work (and giving others the information to do the same via his writings), then decide to take more direct action and simply kill him with a "permanent abduction" or suchlike. Fulcanelli as a 4D STO being observes that such a thing is NOT in the incarnatory "script" for his life. 4D STS have escalated to a direct violation of free will. Fulcanelli as "himself in the future" must then act in defence of his own self as a 3D STS being, as part of preserving incarnatory choices made at 5D. Thus, it's all on for young and old in 4D, and the 3D STS Fulcanelli possibly observes a big storm over his house (or maybe some sort of weird "glitches in the Matrix" resulting from the battle), but otherwise is none the wiser that his 4D self "in the future" just had to save his life in the 3D "now".

From the article Darkness over Tibet:

My talks with these wise men, which are recorded in my earlier book, reflect a certain degree of understanding of the vital problems of Life and Death, spiritual crimes, Salvation and Eternity, and many of my readers will have wondered how the author arrived at a degree of understanding which made these spiritual contacts possible.

Let me say, then, in this connection, that real understanding in spiritual matters is the result of much bitter fighting, of suffering, spiritual agony and soul passion. Life itself would have no meaning if there was no fighting on all planes, if all was smooth and monotonous. Everything fights in nature. Every plant fights to get more sunlight. Every animal fights for food; the angels themselves fight. Constant struggle on all planes to which it has access is the birthright of the creature. Woe to him who wants to put himself on a level with the Creator and escape fighting! [...]

On my travels I have met some of the highest spiritual entities incarnated in the flesh, and not only those working for the Creator but also those working against him.

Even the fires of hell have their mission. They destroy man if he is weak, but if he is strong they purify by burning the dross away. [...]

Spirituality actually is a very stormy ocean. The currents of life are interwoven, and Good and Evil, Light and Shadow, are within a hairbreadth from each other. [Illion, Darkness Over Tibet, 1937, Rider & Co, London, Reprinted by Adventures Unlimited Press, 1991]

IMO I think many "New Age" types miss the mark completely by attributing 4D STO as being some "realm of bliss" or place where the ills of this world no longer have any meaning. As I see it, 4D STO probably involves a degree of struggle, suffering and even "warfare" that we simply cannot envision at this level. Imagine "graduating" to 4D and then realising that you had to defend all your previous 3D incarnations from countless attempts at interference that you weren't even aware of! Of course, 4D STO probably "share the load" as a colinear network in this respect, but it still gives pause to the idea of "Hey, job's done now" upon reaching 4D!

Anyway, those are few of my current thoughts on the subject at the moment, and I probably haven't explained it as well as I could, but it's all lessons anyway, eh? :)

 

[Carlin]

Or simply: We can not be dead, there is nothing, strictly speaking, it can be killed. Only program that can be destroyed

 

[Menna]

I remember reading somewhere I believe it was in The Wave in the CC's dialogue with Laura that the Lizzies and we have a symbiotic relationship. They can not survive without us and we cannot survive without them.

 

[obyvatel]

I remember reading somewhere I believe it was in The Wave in the CC's dialogue with Laura that the Lizzies and we have a symbiotic relationship. They can not survive without us and we cannot survive without them.

According to my understanding of the Wave, I do not think that we have a symbiotic relationship in this context. We are food for the lizzies. The cows being raised in a ranch for slaughtering do not share a symbiotic relationship with us - at least from the cows' standpoint - osit. We can survive without our predators but the predators cannot survive without us unless they find other sources of food.

 

[Adobe]

Nathan

When I saw your post title it made me laugh a lot, reminded me of how many times I felt similar, but never said it out loud. Everyone has done a great job responding to this post so I’m not going to comment on why they’re not killing us, but would like to add something similar. Several months ago I was writing in my journal on the subject of “where are the good guys” the Cs have said on occasion that help is on the way, but I was feeling like asking the universe for help. Can’t they see were getting the crud kicked out of us? I put this together for assistance of my own understanding.

We singly, as a group, and as a planet of related organisms are ending something, and it’s very difficult at the last level, and the good guys have gone quite as to let us do this on our own as much as possible. If STO and STS are even close to 50% 50% in number/influence then the STO are suspiciously quite. I don't believe they’ve be beaten, so assume it’s necessary at this time to let the student pass the test on their own. Also the Christ figure “at the end of the mission” was a (from a physical perspective) pretty beaten down, abandoned figure, and his followers where pretty powerless to assist. So I think of it like final exam week, school sessions finishing up. (testing by fire) (wheat beaten to separated it from the chaff during the harvest etc.) This doesn’t make me feel any better, just helps me try to understand why it appears the battle is so lopsided.

 

[Joe]

When you say "us" I suppose you mean those of us here on the forum or people who are actively attempting to do something to wake up? Because clearly they can and do kill many people on the planet, directly and through their agents.

In terms of those attempting to wake up, I believe there is a reference in the transcripts somewhere to there being "rules" of the game that mean that they cannot just bump of anyone they choose.

 

[mkrnhr]

I imagine that this question is still relevent even today, since Nathan asked this question in May 2006 :)

 

[anart]

I imagine that this question is still relevent even today, since Nathan asked this question in May 2006 :)

Yes, did you think it wouldn't be? That is one of the many valuable aspects of this forum. New people enter and have a vast reference source of discussions spanning years that are, quite literally, timeless. Everyone is at a different place on the learning cycle, thus, everyone will learn from different things, at different times. It's beautiful, by design.