Why their interest in Circumcision ?

J0da wrote:

If the act of circumcision damages a person in a certain way, in cartain age, etc - circumcised people may share some mental/biological vulnerability and as a group - they may be manipulated/attacked in a way which exploits that particular vulnerability.

Completely agree with J0da, knowledge_of_self, Esoquest here.
Circumcision most likely is a social programming mechanism in hebrew community.
Hebrews perform circumcision on the 8-day of newborn life, when only 3 lowest chakras (Muladchara, Svadchistana and Manipura) are opened.
All high centers starting from the heart chakra in circumcized persons remain unopened. Startling thing is that
all hebrew males undergo circumcision. All males except tjhose belonging to 13-th tribe, the priest caste - LeVites (LeVines) and CoHens.

1997 Nature article stated that all descendants from jewish priest lines do share the same aberration of Y-chromosome indeed
Y chromosome of jewish priests - Nature, V 85, 2 Jan 1997 P. 32

�Also take Aaron, your brother, and his sons with him, from all sons of Israel to be the priest to Me� (Outcome, 28:1).
� Lord has told Mose' speaking: only Levin knee do not bring in census, and do not estimate them together with sons of Israel� (Numbers, 1:49).
� Lord has told Mose' speaking: bring Levin knee, and put it the priest to Aaron that they served him� (Numbers, 3:5).
� Lord has told to Aaron: you and sons yours and the house of your father with you will carry on yourselves a sin for negligence in a sanctuary. As well your brothers, Levin knee , a tribe of your father, take to yourself: let they will be at you� (Numbers, 18:1).
So pyramid: priests-elite-circumcised controlled crowd is being built.
 
I think it should pointed out that circumcision is probably the most effective way to treat conditions, such as pathological phimosis, which is a condition of a very tight foreskin that makes retraction over the glans painful or impossible.


"All high centers starting from the heart chakra in circumcized persons remain unopened."

I happen to believe from experience and experimenting that this is not true.
I have no idea what evidence that statement is based on and I think it's an irresponsible thing to say. Assuming that there is even higher chakras, and the C's have pointed out that this is a very mis-understood term, determing whether or not they are open or remain unopened due to circumcision is not something that can be established currently, if it all.
 
moonwalker said:
"All high centers starting from the heart chakra in circumcized persons remain unopened."

I happen to believe from experience and experimenting that this is not true.
This could easily descend into baseless futile argument. Perhaps it would be useful for BOTH of the above statements to be backed up with a little more detail. Especially given what moonwalker said next:

moonwalker said:
I have no idea what evidence that statement is based on and I think it's an irresponsible thing to say. Assuming that there is even higher chakras, and the C's have pointed out that this is a very mis-understood term, determing whether or not they are open or remain unopened due to circumcision is not something that can be established currently, if it all.
So, either it can determined to be false, or it cannot be determined. you can't have it both ways. Chakra's and the like, can be an intrinsically 'fuzzy' subject due to conflicting vocabularies, belief systems etc, so some clarity of thought is needed here, to get any useful conclusions, and also to make it clear what things are unknown or unknowable.

Regarding the slightly more concrete subject of early behavioural 'imprinting' however, there are studies that support the theory.
 
Sleepyvinny wrote:
Perhaps it would be useful for BOTH of the above statements to be backed up with a little more detail.

I wrote:
Hebrews perform circumcision on the 8-day of newborn life, when only 3 lowest chakras (Muladchara, Svadchistana and Manipura) are opened. All high centers starting from the heart chakra in circumcized persons remain unopened.

Source: book "A Impact/Blow of Russian Gods" by Vladimir Istarkhov, ISBN: 5-7058-0312-5; ISBN 5-9243-0044-7 (4-th updated and revised edition)
Chapter 10 "The mystery of jews circumscision", pages 104-105.

Sleepyvinny wrote:
Chakra's and the like, can be an intrinsically 'fuzzy' subject due to conflicting vocabularies, belief systems etc, so some clarity of thought is needed here, to get any useful conclusions, and also to make it clear what things are unknown or unknowable.

V. Istarkhov in chapter 10, Table 1 gives Chakras' list he referred to in text:

Table 1
//------------------------------------------------------------------------\\
||Chakras|location | Name |main functions ||
|| 1 |basal |Muladchara |survival (receiving Kundalini energy) ||
|| 2 |sexual |Svadkhistana|procreation, orgasm ||
|| 3 |near navel |Manipura |control, management,will, power, ego ||
|| 4 |heart |Anahata |love,justice, good and evil distinction||
|| 5 |throat |Vishuddha |creativity ||
|| 6 |third eye |Ajna |ясновидение ||
|| 7 |top of head|Sahasrara |connection with gods ||
\\------------------------------------------------------------------------//
Historical, Comparative and recent interpretations of chakras:
http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/
en/wikipedia.org/wiki/

I wrote:
Startling thing is that all hebrew males undergo circumcision All males except tjhose belonging to 13-th tribe, the priest caste - LeVites (LeVines) and CoHens. 1997 Nature article stated that all descendants from jewish priest lines do share the same aberration of Y-chromosome indeed Y chromosome of jewish priests - Nature, V 85, 2 Jan 1997 P. 32

Here is the short article from Nature I gave a reference to in my previous post:

SCIENTIFIC CORRESPONDENCE
Y chromosomes of Jewish priests
SIR - According to biblical accounts, the Jewish priesthood was established about 3,300 years ago with the appointment of the first Israelite high priest. Designation of Jewish males to the priesthood continues to this day, and is determined by strict patrilineal descent. Accordingly, we sought and found clear differences in the frequency of Y-chromosome haplotypes between Jewish priests and their lay counterparts. Remarkably, the difference is observable in both the Ashkenazic and Sephardic populations, despite the geographical separation of the two communities.
The human Y chromosome has useful properties for studies of molecular evolution1'2. Except for the pseudo-autosomal region, it is inherited paternally and does not recombine. It can be used to construct patrilineal genealogy cladograms complementary to those formulated using maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA.
The phenotypic differences that exist between different communities of contemporary Jews in the world are thought to emanate, at least in part, from genetic admixture with neighbouring communities of non-Jews, during a prolonged dispersion3'4. The genetic basis of this diversity has been investigated using analysis of neutral DNA markers, including mitochondrial and Y-chromosome markers4. However, previous studies have not considered the subsets of male Jews comprising the priesthood (Cohanim). Significantly, there is no procedure other than paternal descent by which male Jews are assigned to the priesthood. Identification as a priest carries with it certain social and religious obligations which have tended to preserve this identity within Jewish communities. Based on surveys of Jewish cemetery gravestones, priests represent approximately 5% of the estimated total male world Jewish population of roughly 7 million (data not shown).
We identified haplotypes of 188 unrelated Y chromosomes using the poly-merase chain reaction (PCR) applied to genomic DNA isolated from buccal mucosal swab samples from Israeli, North American and British Jews. We constructed haplotypes using first, the presence or absence of the Y Alu polymorphic (YAP) insert, thought to represent a unique evolutionary event dated to between 29,000 and 340,000 years ago1'5; and second, a polymorphic GATA repeat microsatellite, DYS19 (refs 6, 7). We also typed a subset of samples for the non-Y-chromosome CA-repeat polymorphism, D1S191 (ref. 8).
We determined the designation of each subject as a member of the priesthood by direct questioning. Subjects who were not sure of their designation or who identified themselves as 'Levite' (a separate junior priesthood, based on a different, less-well-defined patrilineal lineage) were not included in the current analysis.
We identified six haplotypes, whose frequencies are shown in the table (YAP~ DYS19A-E and YAP+ DYS19, all alleles). Applying the x2 test t0 the frequencies of the Y-chromosome haplotypes distinguishes priests from the lay population. The most striking difference was in the frequency of YAP+ chromosomes among priests compared with lay Jews. Only 1.5% of Y chromosomes among priests were YAP+, in comparison to a frequency of 18.4% in lay Jews. In contrast, we found no significant difference in the distribution of alleles for the non-Y-chromosome locus polymorphism DIS 191 (data not shown). These Y-chromosome haplotype differences confirm a distinct paternal genealogy for Jewish priests.
We further identified subjects as being of Ashkenazic or Sephardic origin. This refers to the two chief, separate communities which developed within the diaspora during the past millennium9.
HAPLOTYPE FREQUENCY F(standard error) Table Ashkenazic, Jewish communities of northern Europe; Sephardic, Jewish communities of north Africa and the Middle East; Cohen, Priest; Israelite, lay Jew. A-E, different DYS19 haplotypes
(CarpeDiem: to view this table please go to Nature site).

As shown in the table, the same haplotype distinction can be made between priests and lay members within each population. This result is consistent with an origin for the Jewish priesthood antedating the division of world Jewry into Ashkenazic and Sephardic communities, and is of particular interest in view of the pronounced genetic diversity displayed between the two communities9. This conclusion is further supported by the relative preponderance of the YAP, DYS19B haplotype in both populations, suggesting that this may have been the founding modal haplotype of the Jewish priesthood.
Taken together, our findings define a set of Y chromosomes of recent common origin. Differences which have accumulated in the genomic DNA of the Y chromosomes of Jewish priests during the relatively short time since the establishment of the priesthood, should be useful in defining rates and mechanisms of Y-chromosome evolution.

Karl Skorecki
Sara Selig
Shraga Blazer
Bruce Rappaport
Faculty of Medicine and Research Institute and Rambam Medical Centre, Technion-lsrael Institute of Technology, Haifa 31096, Israel and
Department of Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto M5S1A8, Canada
email: skorecki@tx. technion. ac. il
Robert Bradman
Neil Bradman
P. J. Waburton
Monica Ismajlowicz
Department of Biology, University College London, London WC1E 6BT, UK
Michael F. Hammer Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, Biosciences West, University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona 85721, USA
1. Hammer, M. F. Nature 378, 376-378 (1995).
2. Jobling, M. A. & Tyler-Smith, � Trends Genet. 11, 449-456 (1995).
3. Benerecetti, A. S. S. et al. Genetic Diversity Among Jews (eds Bonne-Tamir, A. & Adam, A.) 45-50 (Oxford Univ. Press, New York, 1992).
4. Ritte, U. et al. J. Mol. Evol. 37, 435-440 (1993).
5. Hammer, M. & Horai, S. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 56, 951-962 (1995).
6. Santos, F. R. et al. Hum. Genet 97, 309-313 (1996).
7. Roewer, L. et al. Hum. Mol. Genet. 5, 1029-1033 (1996).
8. Gyapay, G. et al. Nature Genet. 7, 246-249 (1994).
9. Motulsky, A. G. Nature Genet. 9, 99-101 (1995).
NATURE ? VOL 385 ? 2 JANUARY 1997

I wrote:
So pyramid: priests-elite-circumcised controlled crowd is being built.

This is quintessence of Viktor Suvorov article "What jews are forbidden to know or who benefits from anti-Semitism". Original text at:
http://ot16.narod.ru/suvorov_evrei.html
http://www.vif2ne.ru/nvz/forum/12/archive/76/76510.htm

More: A quote from Chapter 10 "The mystery of jews circumscision" from book "A Impact/Blow of Russian Gods" by Vladimir Istarkhov,:
"And nevertheless Jews occupy special position among all others Biorobots. One more powerful mechanism - a ceremony of circimscision except for such traditional Programming mechanism as religion, plays the major role role in programming of jews"
From Foreword of book " Impact/Blow of Russian Gods ":
The book opens an essence of all main Jewish religions: Judaism, christianity, communism, paints structure of masonic organizations. It is shown, that these Jewish religions are created as the information weapon for capture and establishment of world supremacy by the supreme Jewish oligarchy and their devilish owners. Mechanisms of management of consciousness and behaviour of people are revealed. The book is written from a pagan perspective - a primordial multithousand-year religion of Russian and aryan people. The real picture of world history is given. The book represents the aryan information weapon against judeocracy. The given book is an impact/blow of Russian Gods on judeomasonic mafias and their devil gods.

THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE AUTHOR (Vladimir Istarkhov)
The book is written in specific rigid style, and this style together with dense contents can cause many emotions on the first reading thus complicating mastering of contents of the book. It will not be possible to master and apprehend this book after one perusal. I advise you after the first reading to make a pause of 7-10 days and after that to re-read this text repeatedly. Repeated reading is always an interesting challenge. As a matter of fact earlier in Russia there was such saying: intellectuals do not read books, they re-read them. The book is written as much as possible in simple style though the density of the information is high. Mainly it is written from the position of the paganism lost in today's Russia. I am confident that on the second reading you will apprehend this work in different way and will not regret about a time spent for reading.
And if you read the book attentively the third time it will allow you to enter pagan information space. It will change your consciousness. It will assist to waken your subconsciousness, your genetic memory, to wake and lift our Russian Gods. We are Aryans - children of our Gods. There is something greater in us, than we know about ourselves. Our Gods are inside of us, they are in our genes. Huge latent force and energy are su8bmerged in this information the. It will assist us to become stronger and to achieve in thousand times a victory, prosperity and the true spiritual power.
Vladimir Alekseevich Istarkhov
(The academician of Russian-Slavic Academy)
The author and publishing house did not set as the purpose to offend someone's national or religious feelings, and pursued only scientific and educational purposes. We apologize the readers who had unpleasant sensations at reading these or other fragments of the book.

So, hope, I gave all sources I used to write several lines regarding circumcision of jews.

More on circumscision:
Stanislav Grof
Facing the death
Both during ceremonies of transition, and during psychodelic sessions with perinatal content, the symbolics of spiritual death and revival can interwine with the certain biological elements. Devoted frequently undress completely, are shaved off all bodily hair, and poured with blood of sacrificial animals on a head. It is easy to make out reapproachement with position of the newborn In these rituals (the ceremony of dedication executed in some nationalities bantu in Africa in connection with circumcision, can serve as a vivid example, first, the deep connection existing between symbolic death-revival and the valid biological birth; secondly, an example of contact and interwining symbolics of a birth, sex and death. The boy to whom circumcision is performed, is an object of the ceremony named "a birth anew". His father sacrifices the ram, and three days later wraps up the child in a gastric bubble and a skin of an animal. Before this the boy should get into bed of mother and cry, as the newborn. He remains wrapped up in a skin of the ram within three days, on fourth his parents make ritual copulation. In this culture dead are buried wrapped up in the mutton skin, in a pose of a fruit. (Eliade, 1958).). Moreover, use of excrements and other repellent substrata reminds scatological aspects of biological birth. At last, elements of torture and physical suffering, painful separation and struggle for a survival, present in many ceremonies of transition, carry a print of close similarity to the similar processes, being a part of perinatal experience during psychodelic sessions. Sometimes contact with death is organized so realistically and vividly, that ritual actions comprise risk of a serious physical trauma or danger of biological death.
Symbolics of internal experiences and external images can be united during ritual actions mutually enpowering by image, bringing both enormous personal and collective experience. During similar ceremonies of transformation personal boundaries are moved apart to a degree of inclusion not only the social environment, but also supernatural spheres, and also the sacral essences occupying the other-wordly worlds. The area of the given experiences has numerous parallels with transpersonal phenomena described in one the previous chapters. Introduction of the person to spiritual history of his culture, in certain cosmogony, repeated within the limits of each dedication, leads the neophyte to contact with the most ancient sacral tradition and understanding of the direct relation of this tradition to his mentality

From Gurdjieff "Letters of Velsevul to his grandson":
People of the majority of groups of Asian continent are protected from many veneric deseases, as well as from many other "sexual abnormalities" by, for example, such customs which are known there under names "sunaite" and "abdest". First of these customs, namely sunaite or "circumcision", not only saves many Asians from many veneric deseases, but also protects many children and young men from the "disaster" known on continents Europe and America as "onanism". Teenagers in the majority of modern groups of Asia above the children at the certain age the ritual, consisting that to boys they usually trim so-called "bridle" and "an extreme flesh of a penis". [...] And now those children who, certainly, automatically are exposed to this ceremony, almost are completely protected from inevitable result of the several harms in Asia.
 
CarpeDiem: Yes you provided references to your sources regarding circumsion, yet I don't see any evidence, unless I missed something, that supports the statement "All high centers starting from the heart chakra in circumcized persons remain unopened." This seems to be something that Vladimir Istarkhov says in his book but how does Vladimir know this? What is he basing this statement on? that is what I'm trying to understand.

SleepyVinny: I do not believe it can be determined, but right now going on my past excursions in to kundalini yoga, energy work and meditations I'm leaning towards it been false.

CarpeDiem said:
The book represents the aryan information weapon against judeocracy. The given book is an impact/blow of Russian Gods on judeomasonic mafias and their devil gods.

THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE AUTHOR (Vladimir Istarkhov)
And if you read the book attentively the third time it will allow you to enter pagan information space. It will change your consciousness. It will assist to waken your subconsciousness, your genetic memory, to wake and lift our Russian Gods. We are Aryans - children of our Gods. There is something greater in us, than we know about ourselves. Our Gods are inside of us, they are in our genes. Huge latent force and energy are su8bmerged in this information the. It will assist us to become stronger and to achieve in thousand times a victory, prosperity and the true spiritual power.
You get all this power from reading his book 3 times??
 
Tigersoap said:
There is a lot of medical papers in favor of Circumcision against HIV virus o_O

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=8245525&tool=ExternalSearch

And I found this text which I think is interesting :

Male and female Circumcision

http://www.lpj.org/Nonviolence/Sami/articles/eng-articles/circ.eng.htm

Let's not forget that Female circumcison is also performed to this day.
Men can live without a little bit of skin (not that I think it's cool, even on a necklace) but depriving women of one of their sensitive sexual organ is, well...barbaric.
Tigersoap has a very important message.

My first point is that male circ. is stealing male babies valuable skin ( for what purpose? hygiene is just a cheap lie.)

But the 2nd point is female circ. removes the clitoris and surrounding skin. So, sure they can still have babies, but the sexy part is gone. No more sexy heaven for the females. The female circ. is much worse in their life times than the males who have been done.

But apart from even that... I have read that foreskins of males can be used for useful stuff ( skin healing on burns) or whatever. Trouble is, I have forgotten where I read it.

I think Noble Realms had a thread about this exact subject, but I cant find it.

My view is: all circ. is really bad! Hygiene is just an excuse, in this day and age, everyone knows how to be clean. But imagine if circ. included getting rid of the most sensitive part of the male , as they do with the females in Africa, and other countries, with a rusty razor blade, maybe we would hear more objections?

Again, getting back to the original point, "they" must have a use for foreskins... just dont know what.
 
From 9/11: The Ultimate Truth:


"One of the main aspects of socio-cultural programming is what is called "imprinting". Human beings are born with certain basic behavior patterns built in their DNA. Just as a flower will follow a certain series of steps from the emergence of the seedling to the stage of producing a flower, human beings also develop certain characteristics only at certain times in their growth process. These sequences are something over which we have no control. Konrad Lorenz illustrated this principle with his famous ducks.

Ducks (and humans) are "programmed" at a certain time in their lives to "accept a mother" figure. If the proper mother figure is not there at that moment of "im-printing", whoever or whatever is there will be the "mother image" in the mind of the duck. That is to say, when the appropriate (or inappropriate) object of need is presented to the duck at the correct time in its development, the object is labeled "mother" somewhere in the brain, and this label is next to impossible to erase.

Experiments were conducted with ducks which demonstrated that there is a critical age in hours at which a duckling is most responsive to "obtaining and labeling" a mother. Similar studies were done with monkeys. These studies demonstrated that if a monkey has not received motherly stimulation before he is a certain number of weeks old, he will grow up to be cold, aloof, and unfriendly to his own off-spring. The curious thing about the monkey experiments was that the sense of touch was more important than the feeding. A fuzzy surrogate with no milk was preferred over a wire surrogate with milk. This demonstrates a high level need for touching and caressing. It also suggests the "mode" of this "mother imprint"-it is sensory. Kinesthetic. It relates to pleasurable feelings of the body-how one is "touched".

Evidence that there is a critical period for the "mother imprint" in the higher animals was emphasized in the monkey experiments. In one instance, the experimenter was not prepared for the arrival of a new baby monkey and had to create a makeshift "surrogate mother" using a ball for the head. This was provided to the baby, while the experimenter worked on a better model with a face. But, it was too late. The baby monkey had already bonded to the faceless mother and turned the face of the new model around so that it was blank. A mother with a face was simply not acceptable because the imprint had already been made.

We are all programmed. Our programs are written in the circuits of our brains by those around us in our formative years, just as their programs were written during their formative years, and so on back into the mists of time. Everyone carries in their genes, it seems, deep archetypes that are very much like a database program just waiting for someone to input data.

The thing is, this database is only open to input for a limited period of time, and whatever data is entered during that time determines how all other data will be evaluated forever after. It will produce over and over again the same response to any set of stimuli that have one or more items that have been organized by the database. Anything that is not found in the database is "discarded".
If the database is not utilized and no data is entered during the period of "readiness", or imprinting, that possibility goes dormant and diminishes.

The higher thinking functions, laid over the deep level archetype database, can be viewed as a kind of software that is linked to the database, and must constantly check with it in order to operate. You could think of it as a word processing pro-gram with a fixed dictionary and set of templates, and you can only write in it ac-cording to the templates, and you can only use the words that are in the already fixed dictionary.

Since our brains are genetically designed to accept imprint conditioning on its circuits at certain crucial points in neurological development, these critical periods are known as times of Imprint Vulnerability. The imprint establishes the limits or parameters within which all subsequent conditioning and learning will occur. Each successive imprint further complicates the matter, especially if some of these pro-grams are not compatible with others.

Different schools of thought describe these circuits as "stages of development". Some of the earliest work in these concepts has passed into our culture to such an extent that they have become slang terms such as, "Oh, he's just anal-retentive", with very little actual understanding of what is meant by such expressions.

It seems that, according to research, the "older" brain structures-those necessary for basic survival, such as the brain stem-are imprinted in the earliest stages of development, and that the "newer structures", such as the mid-brain and cortex, develop "superimpositions" upon the more primitive imprints. However, the ear-lier parts of the brain and their imprints form the foundation for the responses to later imprints, and continue to function after the higher thinking modes are developed.

In other words, if you are traumatized as an infant at a crucial point of Imprint Receptivity, it doesn't matter if you grow up to be the President of the United States-you will still be ruled by the imprint.

The first stage, or circuit, is the oral-passive-receptive, and is imprinted by what is perceived to be the mother or first mothering object. It can be conditioned by nourishment or threat, and is mostly concerned with bodily security. Trauma during this phase can cause an unconsciously motivated mechanical retreat from any-thing threatening to physical safety.

In recent times I have given a lot of thought to this particular circuit. Having come to the tentative idea that the whole Judaeo-Christian monotheistic rant was a major control program, I came face to face with the question: how and why has it worked so well for so many thousands of years? More than that, how was it im-posed in the first place? I puzzled over this for weeks. I thought about several things that Friedrich Nietzsche had said that struck me like thunderbolts of truth, once I was able to really step back and look at the matter. He wrote:

Nietzsche said:
The Jews are the most remarkable nation of world history because, faced with the question of being or not being, they preferred, with a perfectly uncanny conviction, being at any price; the price they had to pay was the radical falsification of all nature, all naturalness, all reality, the entire inner world as well as the outer, They defined themselves counter to all those conditions under which a nation was previously able to live, was permitted to live; they made of themselves an antithesis of natural conditions-they inverted religion, religious worship, morality, history, psychology, one after the other, in an irreparable way into the contradiction of their natural values.

[...] Christianity has waged a deadly war against the higher type of man. It has put a ban on all his fundamental instincts. It has distilled evil out of these instincts. It makes the strong and efficient man its typical outcast man. It has taken the part of the weak and the low; it has made an ideal out of its antagonism to the very instincts which tend to preserve life and well-being. [...] It has taught men to regard their highest im-pulses as sinful-as temptations. '...What is Jewish, what is Christian morality?' Chance robbed of its innocence; unhappiness polluted with the idea of 'sin'; well-being represented as a danger, as a 'temptation'. a physiological disorder produced by the canker worm of conscience. [Nietzsche, The Antichrist]
But, that's not to say that Nietzsche was any paragon himself, with his mysogynistic, misanthropic rants! He was, in fact, declared insane in 1888. But then, considering where his ideas were going, is it any wonder? Did he see something that other people did not, the implications of which were simply too much for him to accept?

In any case, he had a point about Judaism and Christianity (and any and all other monotheistic, dominator religions).

So, there I was, pondering this and trying to figure out how and why people could be so completely taken in by this utter nonsense? How can educated members of the human race, in this day and age, with all the resources of knowledge and awareness available to those who have the desire and energy to search for truth, possibly buy into such myths? It just staggered my mind to think about it. How can such subjectivity prevail over the most evident objective reality?

Well, clearly, something happened so that the strongest and most intelligent minds on our planet-for we know that those of Jewish bloodline are, above all, super-intelligent-were fenced in and placed in a position that has repeatedly en-dangered their survival as an ethnic group. How was this intellect derailed so effectively?

I went back in my thinking to the whole Jehovah-I AM deal; the Moses story and all that; and went over the details as they are presented in the Bible for clues; and I came up against that most interesting demand of that crafty Jehovah/Yahweh: circumcision-on the 8th day, no less.

What better way to ensure a deep, subconscious, distrust of women-not to men-tion an overwhelming terror at the very mention of the pain and suffering that might ensue from breaking the monotheistic covenant-the cruel and punishing "mother" image established at the time of Imprint Vulnerability-than whacking a guy's pee-pee when he is interested only in being warm, cozy, and filling his tummy with warm, sweet milk?!

Whoa! Talk about your basic abyssal cunning there!

The first "circuit" is concerned with what is safe and what is not safe. In our society, money is one of the primary items that is intimately tied to survival and biological security. Money represents survival. In addition to that, people who have been traumatized during the imprinting phase of the first circuit tend to view other people in an abstract way. It is "us and them". They also tend to be very easily threatened by disapproval of any sort because disapproval suggests the idea of extinction or loss of food supply. And, finally, those who have been negatively imprinted at this stage tend to have a chronic muscular armoring that prevents proper, relaxed breathing; they are "up tight".

One of the main characteristics of people who are heavily controlled by this circuit, or are "stuck" in this "oral phase", is that when they sense danger of any sort, whether actual or conceptual, all mental activity comes to a halt. Such people are chronically anxious and dependent-mostly on religion. They are not able to really understand what other people are feeling or what can happen in the future in regard to relationships, given a certain present situation. They only understand what is happening "now", and they can only feel what they feel. They cannot accurately grasp what others feel because they relate to others only as sensory objects.

So we see that, by this simple act of circumcision, the strength of the Jewish bloodline and its potential intellectual ability to "see through" and objectively assess reality, has been "chopped off". Not only do they retreat in terror into their religion, they cannot perceive the effect they are having on others. They cannot even perceive how repellent their acts are to those who are able to see objectively.

Such an act would make it almost literally impossible for a circumcised man to ever climb his way out of the trap. The merest suggestion of threat to his religion, to his belief system, would turn on all the neurochemicals that flooded his infant body at the time of the actual event of circumcision, and he would retreat in narcissistic terror to the safety of non-being-or being according to external dic-tates-religion and the representatives of religion: the priesthood.

Beside the Jews, for years, the AMA (American Medical Association) advocated and urged circumcision of American babies for "hygienic" reasons. There is a distinction between those circumcised ritually on the 8th day, and those circumcised immediately after birth. I know of no study done on human beings like those done on monkeys and ducks, but perhaps the response of the mothers is indicative of the natural moment of Imprint Vulnerability. A study was done and the mothers were asked: "When did you first feel love for your baby?" 41 % said during the pregnancy and 24% said at birth, but 27% said that it was during the first week and 8% said after the first week.

That is, the indicators for when the child might be "vulnerable", if measurable by the indicators of the mothers, suggest that the day of highest susceptibility for the infant first circuit imprint very well might be on the 8th day after birth. This suggests a knowledge of human psychology and physiology that supersedes what we know even now. Much research ought to be done on this matter.

The implications of this, and the importance of circumcision-which is, effectively, a bodily mutilation-to sustain a religion over thousands of years suggests to us that there must be something really important about those genetics for so powerful a lock to have been instituted and put in place to control and manipulate Jewish people and more than that, that somebody figured it out.
 
Thanks Joe for posting this as I don't have the book.
Very interesting.

In 1999, 65.3 percent of all male newborns born in hospitals were circumcised. While the overall percentages of circumcised infants have remained relatively unchanged throughout the past two decades, ranging from a low of 60.7 percent in 1988 to 67.8 percent in 1995, different patterns emerge when these estimates are further examined by race and geographic region.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/circumcisions/circumcisions.htm

For the US alone this is a pretty high number I think.

It seems confirmed by this text

The continuing practice of routine neonatal nonreligious circumcision represents an enigma, particularly in the United States. About 80 percent of the world's population do not practice circumcision, nor have they ever done so. Among the non-circumcising nations are Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Scandinavia, the U.S.S.R., China, and Japan. People employing circumcision do so either for "health" reasons or as a religious ritual practiced by Muslims, Jews, most black Africans, non-white Australians, and others.
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/wallerstein/

Circumcision seems to be practiced by a high number of hospitals on male babies without any religious reasons.
Moreover I can't recall all the time it's talked about or referenced in US tv shows but two comes to my mind "Friends" and "Nip/tuck".
As if it needed to be reminded constantly.

Why would the US practice it more than other countries ? excluding religious where it is common practice ?

Is there a definite connection there with where the US stands now (that would not be the only factor obviously).
I think it's troubling.

I'll add this link as well :

The US is way above the other countries regarding circumcision

http://www.noharmm.org/HGMstats.htm
 
How do you raise a number of circumcised infants in NZ? Publish a NZ research that proves it's "benefits".

NZ expert finds 'snip' benefits, and Americans pay heed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10409497

Circumcising all baby boys could cut the rate of sexually transmitted diseases by about half, a Christchurch researcher says.

David Fergusson of Christchurch School of Medicine and Health Sciences, says he found "substantial benefits" from giving boys the snip - removing their foreskins.

His study, published in the international scientific journal Pediatrics, followed 510 New Zealand males between birth and age 25.

It found that even after accounting for other factors linked to venereal disease - number of sexual partners, unprotected sex and family background - circumcised youths were far less likely to become infected.

Ten to 20 per cent of New Zealand boys are circumcised. This is one of the lowest rates in the world, but the practice is still the norm in Samoan, Tongan, Jewish and Muslim families.

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians said in 2004 there was no medical reason for routine circumcision of newborn boys.

In the United States, the circumcision rate has been falling since 1999, when the American Academy of Pediatrics began opposing the practice.

But the Christchurch study has persuaded some American child health specialists to reconsider the evidence.

"People feel passionate on both sides, but I'm going to recommend that we take another careful look at this," said academy president Jay Berkelhamer, who is also a a professor of paediatrics at the University of Florida.

One convert is California paediatrician Edgar Schoen, who says the academy's opposition is irresponsible.

"The benefits of circumcision far outweigh risks, and doctors should be telling parents that," he said.

Some American consumer groups think the pediatricians should stick with the policy or make it even tougher. "Even if it does bring down sexually transmitted disease, cutting normal tissue of an unconsenting minor is a human rights violation," said Marilyn Milos of lobby group NoCirc.
 
that quote from joe was most interesting.

just one thing: muslims practice circumcision exactly as jews do, namely on the 8th day. if not done then, the second best 'opportunity' is at the 40th day after birth as related to me by somebody who knows something about islamic customs.

why the focus on /jewish/ circumcision and not on /muslims/ ? half of the 1.5 billion muslims out there are men. all of them 750M, with few exceptions, circumcised. if, as stated in the russian writings linked above, jews become "biorobots" by virtue of circumcision, or bound to their religion by virtue of imprinting via circumcision, then, where does that leave muslims ? generalising, muslims show very different behavior from jews. also, not all women are circumcised, and i have never heared that jewish women are circumcised.

lets make things short:
- if jews are kept 'in the pen' by use of circumcision, why not do it to their women as well, especially taking into account that to dominate any human social group one needs to dominate (or appease) the women first ?
- what is the interest of the of the levites in muslims, who inherited this ritual when their religion came to be ? muslims use circumcision but dont have common genetics more than other peoples.

Lets compare between abrahamaic religions according to circumcision:

Jews
Men: mandatory
Women: no

Muslims
Men: mandatory
Women: practiced but not mandatory

Christians:
Men: practiced but not mandatory
Women: not mandatory and seldom practiced
 
While reading Beelzebub for the first time I can`t say what can be taken literally :(.

In the (very funny) chapter "Beelzebub in America" the subject of circumcision is greatly elaborated.
Apparently circumcision of men and women (esp. men) is greatly endorsed.
A main argument is that circumcision prevents the "terrible sickness of onanism".
Also alleged to prevent veneral diseases.
Also polygamy (for men, not women) is strongly suggested as far better than monogamy.

I`m not sure how to digest this information :/. Ideas anyone?
 
nemo said:
While reading Beelzebub for the first time I can`t say what can be taken literally :(.

In the (very funny) chapter "Beelzebub in America" the subject of circumcision is greatly elaborated.
Apparently circumcision of men and women (esp. men) is greatly endorsed.
A main argument is that circumcision prevents the "terrible sickness of onanism".
Also alleged to prevent veneral diseases.
Also polygamy (for men, not women) is strongly suggested as far better than monogamy.

I`m not sure how to digest this information :/. Ideas anyone?

Yeah, I like his style of writing in Beelzebub.
I can understand why Gurdjieff might have thought that circumcision was a good thing in his days because he wouldn’t have had knowledge of later research into psychological/emotional imprinting with regard to circumcision and other stuff.
I think it shows not to take G or anyone as inerrant in everything as there can always be more data turn up later to alter ones thinking.

Also alleged to prevent veneral diseases.
Well attention to good hygene in the nether regions of both men and women, whether circumcised or not is a good idea. But on the other hand not sleeping around would help a lot as well.
I think he was trying to say that westerners, due to their lifestyle, were on average more promiscuous than the east and didn’t attend to hygene as much?

A main argument is that circumcision prevents the "terrible sickness of onanism".
I wonder if G was influenced by Christian dogma here. I’m not sure but I’m thinking he meant masturbation? I don’t understand it unless he was influenced with a ‘biblical gloss’ on some of his ideas where they promote the belief that masturbation is sinful. I can't quite see how he got the data that circumcised kids masturbate less than uncircumcised kids.

Also polygamy (for men, not women) is strongly suggested as far better than monogamy
Yeah, I bet a lot of men would think it would be a dream come true. He seems to have a view of women being objects of ownership in that statement, but I could be wrong.

Why, I've all on to keep one wife in the manner she's accustomed to let alone a bunch of them. :scared:
 
Peam said:
A main argument is that circumcision prevents the "terrible sickness of onanism".
I wonder if G was influenced by Christian dogma here. I’m not sure but I’m thinking he meant masturbation? I don’t understand it unless he was influenced with a ‘biblical gloss’ on some of his ideas where they promote the belief that masturbation is sinful. I can't quite see how he got the data that circumcised kids masturbate less than uncircumcised kids.
Masturbation, yes. As for the latter (I haven't read that far yet), it seems indeed that he went amiss there. As for the former, he describes the problem with masturbation earlier:

Beelzebub's Tales said:
[...]
"Before continuing to relate how all this [men and women for a number of years existing apart] occurred, I must tell you in a little more detail about that sacred substance which is the final result of the evolving transformations of every kind of being-food and is formed in the presence of every being without distinction of 'brain system '. This sacred substance, elaborated in the presence of beings of every kind, is almost everywhere called 'exioëhary,' but your favorites on the planet Earth call it 'sperm. '
"Through the all-gracious foresight and command of our Common Father Creator and according to the actualization of Great Nature, this sacred substance arises in the presence of all beings, without distinction of brain system or exterior coating, in order that by its means they may consciously or automatically fulfill that part of their being-duty which consists in the continuation of their species. But in the presence of three-brained beings it also arises in order that they may consciously transform it for coating their higher being-bodies for their own being.
This would seem to correspond to, as described elsewhere, the forming of the "higher bodies", a process that requires "sexual energy".

Beelzebub's Tales said:
"Before the second transapalnian perturbation there, which the contemporary three-brained beings refer to as the 'loss of the continent of Atlantis,' in the period when various consequences of the properties of the organ kundabuffer had already begun to be crystallized in their presence, a being-impulse was gradually formed in them which later became predominant.
"This impulse is now called 'pleasure', and in order to satisfy it they were already beginning to exist in a manner unbecoming to three-centered beings, that is to say, most of them gradually began to remove this sacred being-substance from themselves for the satisfaction of this impulse alone.
Wasting the energy that could otherwise be used.


The Wave 12b mentions the issue of sex in general. In short, through mechanical seeking of pleasure by the Predator's mind, one discards one's energy for the Lizzies to feast on. Orgasm also, according to Laura's take, induces a vulnerability for negative DNA manipulation for a period of time following. But the monotheistic anti-sex idea apparently also is not a good idea - merely another means for the 4D STSers to get their food through the resulting behavior.
 
If I had had the time I`d have removed my post to this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8657.0,
where it better fits, me thinks. Now with your replys only a moderator could do so :).

Thanks Peam + Csayeursost for your comments. They`ve helped me put G`s statements in a better perspective.
The "B. in America"-chapter, if published seperately, might have a success with general readers and I strongly suspected
that the above mentioned things are meant to be taken literally, which is why I needed to clear that up.
That does of course not mean that this chapter doesn`t contain some hidden meanings as well.

Now I`ve read so much, as well as threads on the subject of sex and still I`m such a newby regarding these subjects!
I couldn`t even say how theoretically one uses the sexual energy for spiritual means :rolleyes:.
 

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