Would you go to war?

[Voyageur]

In the "theater of war" where I stand, strategic enclosure is my main "battle". Many family members whom I have been close to over the years are the penultimate authoritarian followers. Knowing when and how to "fight" is supremely challenging. :(

Same for me. My entire family just the other day were saying how much they like obama. Truly unknowing and not factoring the idea that people lie. Like i don't understand that type of obedience.

What would you define strategic enclosure as?

Have you read Altemeyer's, The Authoritarians? It is downloadable in that link, and well points out the "obedience" factor.

As for strategic enclosure and externally considering, indeed, when discussing war and other things with our family or families in general, for many here in their pasts, and in some current particulars perhaps, the reality had, and has seemed all rather black and white - Republicans/Democrats - Communism/Capitalism - Yes/No, and is generally what we face in ourselves and in others each day. For families, friends, colleagues and society as a generality, especially their understanding of said "obedience" factors, can be often seen in how the screen has been presented to people, presented in such a way that help to shape their choices that most often did not include third/fourth... influences or views. It's sad, yet this is the reality many are in, so being considerate of their reality is challenging to say the least, especially giving truth to a lie when asked a direct question that ends in making a Yes/No answer with rationalization when you know they don't want to hear it.

Just today my partners young "Facebook" friend, being from Ukraine, and just recently relocating to Canada, made posts. Her posts today were in uppercase format critical of Russia and Putin - Nazi references and all. They were backed up with references (photo's of memorials) of Soviet Union's past WWII deeds in Ukraine (some true under Stalin and some twisted). Is this her true current belief? Well it likley is and to openly challenge her with information (facebook response) might make it difficult for her family in Kiev not knowing how they really feel; placing them at risk.

Anyway, concerning "obedience" discussed above, have a look at Plato's Cave as example:

Allegory of the Cave

Plato has Socrates describe a gathering of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected {MSN, Education, Religion, War, Programs, Authoritarians etc.} on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to designate names to these shadows. The shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

Here is an animated version if not seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

 

[placematt]

In the "theater of war" where I stand, strategic enclosure is my main "battle". Many family members whom I have been close to over the years are the penultimate authoritarian followers. Knowing when and how to "fight" is supremely challenging. :(

Same for me. My entire family just the other day were saying how much they like obama. Truly unknowing and not factoring the idea that people lie. Like i don't understand that type of obedience.

What would you define strategic enclosure as?

Have you read Altemeyer's, The Authoritarians? It is downloadable in that link, and well points out the "obedience" factor.

As for strategic enclosure and externally considering, indeed, when discussing war and other things with our family or families in general, for many here in their pasts, and in some current particulars perhaps, the reality had, and has seemed all rather black and white - Republicans/Democrats - Communism/Capitalism - Yes/No, and is generally what we face in ourselves and in others each day. For families, friends, colleagues and society as a generality, especially their understanding of said "obedience" factors, can be often seen in how the screen has been presented to people, presented in such a way that help to shape their choices that most often did not include third/fourth... influences or views. It's sad, yet this is the reality many are in, so being considerate of their reality is challenging to say the least, especially giving truth to a lie when asked a direct question that ends in making a Yes/No answer with rationalization when you know they don't want to hear it.

Just today my partners young "Facebook" friend, being from Ukraine, and just recently relocating to Canada, made posts. Her posts today were in uppercase format critical of Russia and Putin - Nazi references and all. They were backed up with references (photo's of memorials) of Soviet Union's past WWII deeds in Ukraine (some true under Stalin and some twisted). Is this her true current belief? Well it likley is and to openly challenge her with information (facebook response) might make it difficult for her family in Kiev not knowing how they really feel; placing them at risk.

Anyway, concerning "obedience" discussed above, have a look at Plato's Cave as example:

Allegory of the Cave

Plato has Socrates describe a gathering of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected {MSN, Education, Religion, War, Programs, Authoritarians etc.} on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to designate names to these shadows. The shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

Here is an animated version if not seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

Cheers Voyageur,

I have heard about Plato's cave. I do understand that. But from a very basic stand point, deception is the ultimate weapon. My lack of understanding of my family for instance, is that i lie to my parents, they lie to me. Sure its little things but its still a symbolic representation of a man. Deception to me is the goal. When i read or watch something my first question is, whats the opposite of what they are saying. My family doesn't do that with news, but a neighbour, a relative sure, they are lying. haha it's such a double standard.

its not like they are new to the idea of lying and deception. But when it comes to figures who have power, they don't have that bone in their body. I guess I just find it interesting and sometimes blatantly hopeless!