Wronged by someone else and taking it out on myself.

[pete02]

Okay, I wanna make this brief because I don't feel its a topic worth dragging out but one that still needs to be discussed.

To make a long story short I was pick pocketed in Spain and lost my cell phone. I was with about 5 or 6 other members when it happened and later as we were walking down the street one of them made a comment about losing the phone in a funny way, I suppose trying to lighten the mood, and when I replied to him Trevrizent (one of the members) entered the conversation and said that he felt I had an attachment to the phone because I was still talking about it and I should discuss it here on the forum. I was quick to deny that as I really have been moving away from emotional attachments towards material objects and it only happened less than 10 minutes before hand so an incident like that was not going to go away that fast but nevertheless I told him I would give it some thought.

Well I did and I have been since the incident and I have come to find that it was indeed a toy I was fond of. One that I will not be repurchasing because the full price of it is insanity for a cell phone. However my old phone works fine, has the same operating system and is more compact so I called the phone company and activated that one again at no cost whatsoever. Its like I said that day when it happened, I have another one and it really was no biggie to lose the phone as much as the pictures that were on it. Those meant more to me. Anyway it seemed to be a done deal at this point right?

Not so apparently because now for the past couple of nights I've been having dreams about the whole incident. In one I caught the villain red handed and in the other I got the police involved and brought that person to justice. The interesting thing I noticed about the dreams is that the phone was not present in either one. My issue doesn't seem to be with the phone but with the action of the whole thing and how I could've been so dumb as to let it happen. It seems I'm beating myself up again. This was brought to my attention in France last year and when my brother, just tonight, had brought up how I pride myself on not being taken advantage of it all fell into place for me. I was taken advantage of. I'm smarter than that and I let it happen anyway. On top of all the other guilt there was the fact that Seek10 kept telling me to be careful and my cocky street smart NY'ker attitude got the better of me and I paid the price for it. I also feel now that I was giving Seek10 a rough time later that day because deep down I was angry at myself and took it out on him instead. My apologies to you my friend.

So basically I'm upset with myself about this whole thing and now its coming out in my dreams. What I should've done and what I could've done. I guess when it happened I was really upset and angry and just suppressed it because I didn't wanna make a big deal about it but there I went just burying more emotions after knowing what I know. I was gonna try and do an EE later with the whole thing on my mind and see if I could find some way to just let it go but consciously I am finding hard to be angry about it. I mean if the world wasn't the way it is then people like that wouldn't have to be stealing just to survive so I don't feel like I'm holding ill will towards that person. It just seems my anger is more directed at me for letting it happen. Perhaps this is some sort of turn the other cheek program I have running?

Anyway that's as far as I've gotten thinking about this thing and honestly if I hadn't of started dreaming about it I probably wouldn't have said anything about it but its obvious to me now that its on my mind (whether conscious or not) and I need to work through it. Thanks for listening.

 

[Laura]

Having something pickpocketed/stolen is traumatic, IMO, because it is an invasion/violation of the self. I ALMOST got pickpocketed a few weeks ago at a rest stop on the autoroute. Fortunately, it was a young girl in training (I guess) and she touched me in a way that got my attention before she was able to steal anything out of my bag and I swung around and looked her straight in the face while, at the same time, sliding my bag more snugly under my arm. I realized what she had been about to do and she realized she had been caught trying to do it (by the look on her face).

Even though it didn't happen, I felt traumatized and was upset for an hour or so as we continued our trip. It bothered me for several days, too. I kept imagining the problems that would have resulted if she had managed to lift my wallet out of my bag.

I think it is one of those threat situations that you read about in "In An Unspoken Voice" where you need to process the incident properly in order to not have an ongoing trauma. It's not about being attached to something, it's about the sheer violation of the event.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Pete,
If a friend of yours had to go through the same incident, what would you tell him? Would you berate him for not being careful enough? Or would you intellectualize about the state of the world and how it is possible that poverty may have driven somebody to steal? Or would you first comfort him and acknowledge his rightful feelings about being violated in this manner?

The dreams perhaps indicate that you have suppressed your true feelings about this incident. I think with guys it is more habitual to suppress states of vulnerability and instead intellectualize or beat oneself up about not being smart enough. Regarding the hypothetical situation of the pick-pocket - yes the person could be in dire need but that does not invalidate or delegitimize your own loss. It is like what the Pressmans' say in the Narcissistic Family about two separate boxes .

So please do acknowledge your feelings and let the body do what it would like to do. You could imagine catching hold of the person as you dreamed - like maybe physically grabbing the hand of the imaginary pickpocket or doing as Laura did and becoming alert and preventing the person from working his way to your belongings - or something else. Listen to your body and let it move the way it wants to to get rid of the trauma. You could choose to focus on being more aware and vigilant in the future after you have processed and internally resolved this incident.

My 2 cents

 

[kenlee]

I think if we assume that "these things can't happen" then at some point when we least expect it the universe, which includes our 'higher selves,' is going to show us at some point just how out of alignment from reality our assumptions can be (think of the titanic!) and this event may have happened at the physical level to facilitate a slight "course correction" in your awareness regarding the open possibilities within the greater universe. Its like if we assume that things like this can't happen then I think it effectively turns our awareness off to very real possibilities that are very real even if they don't exist (yet) as a real existing physical event that manifests itself in this level of reality. But in this case an event did occur, possibly as a wake up call to show that your assumption is out of alignment with very real possibilities and this might have been a kind of wake up call to calibrate, align and expand your awareness in that regard.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Hey, Pete. I agree with Laura and obyvatel. It's about the violation / intrusion / invasion and the trauma connected with it. You'd be better off NOT beating yourself up about it (which is really futile / useless) and trying to deal with and properly process the trauma.

One other thing to mention, alluded to by Laura, did you have any important information stored on the phone? The whole hassle is, who knows what kind of people stole it and if there's a chance of identity theft or privacy invasion type situations coming out of it. Not to worry you more or get you any more anxious, but if there's any danger of such things, just making sure you've thought of it and taken any steps to minimize the potential damage.

And finally, if it was a very fancy phone, you may have been spotted with it and targeted / followed because of it. So, besides trying to be more aware of your surroundings all the time and specifically at the moment of theft, in that particular situation, maybe it would have been wiser to be careful not to flash a fancy phone and catch the attention of those who would want to steal it? Or if there would be a way to take a more ordinary, less desirable-for-thieves cell phone in such a situation, as it may not be possible to avoid a really good pickpocket by being alert at all times. Just throwing all this out there to consider for future situations and lessons learned.

 

[Scottie]

I was gonna try and do an EE later with the whole thing on my mind and see if I could find some way to just let it go but consciously I am finding hard to be angry about it. I mean if the world wasn't the way it is then people like that wouldn't have to be stealing just to survive so I don't feel like I'm holding ill will towards that person.

How do you know that the thief needed to steal just to survive? Your personal space and "stuff" was violated, and you make excuses for this person? Even if only for energetic purposes, I think you would be better off feeling angry at them. Sure, maybe being cocky helped to make you a target, but you didn't do the actual deed. The theft was a choice made by the thief.

To which I say:

 

[anart]

and when I replied to him Trevrizent (one of the members) entered the conversation and said that he felt I had an attachment to the phone because I was still talking about it and I should discuss it here on the forum. I was quick to deny that as I really have been moving away from emotional attachments towards material objects and it only happened less than 10 minutes before hand so an incident like that was not going to go away that fast but nevertheless I told him I would give it some thought.

Yep, I agree with everyone else - you should have been talking about the phone for another three days if that's what it takes to process it. It's not an attachment to the phone, it's the reaction to being personally traumatized and you have to work through that (else the dreams). So - get angry at the little punk who stole it! ;)

Anger is important, it is a protection and even healing mechanism if directed in the right way.

 

[pete02]

I think it is one of those threat situations that you read about in "In An Unspoken Voice" where you need to process the incident properly in order to not have an ongoing trauma. It's not about being attached to something, it's about the sheer violation of the event.

I do feel violated from the incident but not angry for some reason. At one point I actually stopped and thought about how you were talking about information at the conference the day before and realized my information had be stolen. It upset me but still did not anger me. I did however feel completely drained like all my energy just was taken from me if that makes any sense. I will put "In An Unspoken Voice" on my list to read next to help me better understand.

The dreams perhaps indicate that you have suppressed your true feelings about this incident. I think with guys it is more habitual to suppress states of vulnerability and instead intellectualize or beat oneself up about not being smart enough. Regarding the hypothetical situation of the pick-pocket - yes the person could be in dire need but that does not invalidate or delegitimize your own loss. It is like what the Pressmans' say in the Narcissistic Family about two separate boxes .

I know the excuse about that person being in dire need was just a lame attempt to justify the wrongdoing to myself. I tried to intellectualize the situation but completely forgot to think about myself. I think the main reason I did that was to try and not make a big deal out of it so that the rest of the weekend would finish off without any bad feelings but instead I think I just took my anger out on a friend. By the end of the day I felt completely drained and sorry for ever waking up. The next morning however I felt fine.

But in this case an event did occur, possibly as a wake up call to show that your assumption is out of alignment with very real possibilities and this might have been a kind of wake up call to calibrate, align and expand your awareness in that regard.

That definitely makes sense. My awareness was seriously out of whack and I do think this was a wake up call for sure. I was stereotyping people and becoming too trusting of those I thought could not pose a threat and that's exactly what got me. The person was a short rounded bag lady btw and I glanced at her once when she moved near to me but didn't think to give her a second look. Surprise!

One other thing to mention, alluded to by Laura, did you have any important information stored on the phone? The whole hassle is, who knows what kind of people stole it and if there's a chance of identity theft or privacy invasion type situations coming out of it. Not to worry you more or get you any more anxious, but if there's any danger of such things, just making sure you've thought of it and taken any steps to minimize the potential damage.

The usual info but the photos were what I missed the most. Everything else was relatively easy to retrieve. The phone didn't work out there so I'm sure she would just sell it and they would install a new sim card and resell it for full price. She must have somewhere she unloads these things and there were little independent cell phone shops everywhere out there so she could be working for one of them for all I know. The accounts she could have accessed via wifi I had already went and changed all the passwords and none of them were connected to any of my banking info so I wasn't really concerned about that. The phone was actually my camera so there wasn't really a way to conceal it or use a cheaper one either.

The theft was a choice made by the thief.

To which I say:

Anger is important, it is a protection and even healing mechanism if directed in the right way.

Your both right however my problem is that this anger doesn't seem to wanna surface. I do feel violated and upset but not downright angry and I should. Maybe living most of my life in NYC has made me numb to these things since this is not the first time I've been robbed. Now should I force myself to go out and pay an excessive amount of money to replace the thing then yes, I probably would get very angry but I don't need to do that so I'm not.

 

[seek10]

Having something pickpocketed/stolen is traumatic, IMO, because it is an invasion/violation of the self. I ALMOST got pickpocketed a few weeks ago at a rest stop on the auto route. Fortunately, it was a young girl in training (I guess) and she touched me in a way that got my attention before she was able to steal anything out of my bag and I swung around and looked her straight in the face while, at the same time, sliding my bag more snugly under my arm. I realized what she had been about to do and she realized she had been caught trying to do it (by the look on her face).

Even though it didn't happen, I felt traumatized and was upset for an hour or so as we continued our trip. It bothered me for several days, too. I kept imagining the problems that would have resulted if she had managed to lift my wallet out of my bag.

I think it is one of those threat situations that you read about in "In An Unspoken Voice" where you need to process the incident properly in order to not have an ongoing trauma. It's not about being attached to something, it's about the sheer violation of the event.

I observed this issue in Barcelona, when one of our fotcom member lost cell phone. I felt agitated semi consciously and found conflicting thought patterns in me. one part to be cautious and other part says it is paranoid, nothing will happen. Out of this pain, I started repeated checking my pant pocket ( forgotten habit during my india days ) , where my purse reside. this literally saved pain of losing my purse (which contained all credit cards and drivers license and money ) and ruining the trip. When I was crossing the subway gate after pushing the subway ticket, I observed some body behind me(nothing to worry about), but i observed some body too close (this is odd) and I was busy in crossing the gate , but I vaguely observed is some body pushing some thing in to my pant pocket. After crossing the gate, I looked for the person behind me to cross the gate, instead she was going back. Then I realized what I happened. This unconscious old habit saved the day. I never felt this need in NY subways. I didn't felt comfortable in Barcelona or Paris until I replaced my backpack with shoulder hand bag that can be moved easily in either direction.

On a lighter note, I wondered why this didn't happen in NYC crowded subway. probably Americans so dumb. interestingly rick steves writes in his travel website the same thing

Europe is safe when it comes to violent crime. But it's a very "dangerous" place from a petty purse-snatching, pickpocketing point of view. Thieves target Americans — not because they're mean, but because they're smart. Loaded down with valuables in a strange new environment, we stick out like jeweled thumbs. If I were a European street thief, I'd specialize in Americans. My card would say "Yanks R Us." Americans are known as the ones with all the good stuff in their bags and wallets. Recently I met an American woman whose purse was stolen, and in her purse was her money belt. That juicy little anecdote was featured in every street-thief newsletter.

 

[Chu]

Your both right however my problem is that this anger doesn't seem to wanna surface. I do feel violated and upset but not downright angry and I should. Maybe living most of my life in NYC has made me numb to these things since this is not the first time I've been robbed. Now should I force myself to go out and pay an excessive amount of money to replace the thing then yes, I probably would get very angry but I don't need to do that so I'm not.

I think that is simple ponerization. which obviously can't be healthy. It's like saying "Oh, somebody just punched me in the face for no reason, but since I still have all my teeth in my mouth, no big deal!" You get the point.

When you get used to a sort of abuse, you become numbed. It is true that anger then doesn't come easily. But maybe this is what your dreams are trying to tell you too. You can still be a good person when you get angry for the right reasons, you know? ;) Sure, there might be something there about you thinking that these things can't happen to you or, as you put it, "the cocky street smart NY'ker attitude". But that doesn't take away the fact that you lost something you cared about, like the pics. You can be more careful next time, but what counts is the moment of the trauma you have to deal with. Otherwise, it's like saying "Oh, somebody just punched me in the face because I was being cocky, but since I still have all my teeth in my mouth, no big deal! I'll be less cocky next time." Never mind that your face hurts a lot and you should do something about that.

Maybe this is something that will come with time and practice. But it will be very liberating if you can feel it and then express it in the right way.

One exercise that I sort of adapted from reading In an Unspoken Voice is to do Beatha, and concentrate in your body. See where there is some tension, and try to see if there are any visualizations or physical feelings attached. As Levine explains, this can "wake up" sympathetic energy that got repressed at the moment of the trauma. You might feel like punching something, or like shouting, shaking, etc. All those could be delayed "fight or flight" responses that you suppressed. You might get other memories of similar situations that actually tell you much more about the repressed feelings. The point is to let it all go while you are feeling safe and know it won't last forever, so as to rebalance your polyvagal system. But in order to reach that "safe state", always make sure that you do 3-stage breathing first, or at least 20 cycles of Pipe Breathing before the Beatha.

 

[truth seeker]

You difficulty with feeling righteous indignation leads me to wonder if on some level you feel as you 'deserved' what happened. Could this be the case?

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Wronged by someone else and taking it out on myself.

Maybe one of the reasons of you being unable to express anger could be because of a ''people pleaser'' program which is pretty common among narcissistically wounded people. In a way, I think that showing anger in this case means that you care about yourself, and acknowledge that it is not right for someone to violate yourself like that. You spent some hard earned money (=energy) on that phone, not to mention the effort put into making the pictures etc., so it's not right for people to just take that from you. Fwiw.

 

[seek10]

I observed this issue in Barcelona, when one of our fotcom member lost cell phone. I felt agitated semi consciously

why did I put it as 3rd party person, when this post was written by pete. ?
I was catching up the posts rather randomly, I was responding to laura reply ( I use laura's latest posts bookmark to quickly catchup and not to miss her wisdom ) , I didn't read the post completely. The heading of the post didn't sounded like pete, though I know pete will post this after the initial resistance. I am sorry for that.

Congratulations Pete for the posting ( LOT of resistance in you we all observed ) . Now question is why resistance?. It may be not about just about the theft or losing some thing ( though it could also be the reason) , there could be layers of things. Only you can dig it out.

On a lighter note, I wondered why this didn't happen in NYC crowded subway. probably Americans so dumb.

Under the context of this thread you started, writing my self talk is rather Rude. I apologize for it.

interestingly rick steves writes in his travel website the same thing

Europe is safe when it comes to violent crime. But it's a very "dangerous" place from a petty purse-snatching, pickpocketing point of view. Thieves target Americans — not because they're mean, but because they're smart. Loaded down with valuables in a strange new environment, we stick out like jeweled thumbs. If I were a European street thief, I'd specialize in Americans. My card would say "Yanks R Us." Americans are known as the ones with all the good stuff in their bags and wallets. Recently I met an American woman whose purse was stolen, and in her purse was her money belt. That juicy little anecdote was featured in every street-thief newsletter.

Now, you know that this is not just you, it can happen to any body. Just, you happen to be the person in the group and alerted others. we are all creatures of habit until we change. No need to beat your self up. Probably your false self screaming of 'what other think of you' and possible self doubt of your abilities. Obviously our narcissistic tendencies list is long and you may want to look at them.

 

[pete02]

I think that is simple ponerization. which obviously can't be healthy. It's like saying "Oh, somebody just punched me in the face for no reason, but since I still have all my teeth in my mouth, no big deal!" You get the point.

...

One exercise that I sort of adapted from reading In an Unspoken Voice is to do Beatha, and concentrate in your body. See where there is some tension, and try to see if there are any visualizations or physical feelings attached. As Levine explains, this can "wake up" sympathetic energy that got repressed at the moment of the trauma. You might feel like punching something, or like shouting, shaking, etc. All those could be delayed "fight or flight" responses that you suppressed. You might get other memories of similar situations that actually tell you much more about the repressed feelings. The point is to let it all go while you are feeling safe and know it won't last forever, so as to rebalance your polyvagal system. But in order to reach that "safe state", always make sure that you do 3-stage breathing first, or at least 20 cycles of Pipe Breathing before the Beatha.

Your right Ailen, its not healthy and it really describes me very well because I am like that. As they say in hockey "no blood, no foul" and I do tend to let things/people get over on me when I probably should stand up for myself and I don't because it doesn't seem like that big a deal or not worth arguing about. One of the things I first tried to do when I started working on myself was to not be so high strung and angry all the time (because I was) but now it seems as if I'm just suppressing the emotions as opposed to releasing them properly. I will try the exercise you mention because I've been feeling tension building up from somewhere or something else before this event even happened and the tension is becoming unbearable now with this added to it.

You difficulty with feeling righteous indignation leads me to wonder if on some level you feel as you 'deserved' what happened. Could this be the case?

Not that I'm consciously aware of. I certainly don't feel as if I deserve any wrongdoing mainly because I try to be a nice person to others and to help others when in need if I can basically because I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around and if the time ever comes when I need help maybe someone else will be there for me.

Maybe one of the reasons of you being unable to express anger could be because of a ''people pleaser'' program which is pretty common among narcissistically wounded people.

I was kinda thinking the same thing when I spoke about a 'turn the other cheek program' running in myself but 'people pleaser' also depicts me very well. I honestly think I have a combination of both running in me. Turn the other cheek because I let people get away with things and just tell myself its not that big a deal and people pleaser because I do take into thought what others will think of me before I act and even though that is a good thing at times, this time it wasn't. I suppose I don't even love myself enough to consider myself first once in a while.

Congratulations Pete for the posting ( LOT of resistance in you we all observed ) . Now question is why resistance?. It may be not about just about the theft or losing some thing ( though it could also be the reason) , there could be layers of things. Only you can dig it out.

That's just typical me. I know I was being very hard headed when you tried to speak to me that night and I'm sorry about that. I feel as if I took what little anger that surfaced out on you and that wasn't very nice of me. Thanks for being there though.

Now, you know that this is not just you, it can happen to any body. Just, you happen to be the person in the group and alerted others. we are all creatures of habit until we change. No need to beat your self up. Probably your false self screaming of 'what other think of you' and possible self doubt of your abilities. Obviously our narcissistic tendencies list is long and you may want to look at them.

I am glad it raised the awareness of others that day and it most likely is the 'what others think of me' thing that caused me to hold that anger in so yes, I think its time for me to brush up on recognizing my own narcissistic tendencies and hopefully find some answers. Btw.. I appreciated the call the other night as I was thinking about you this week hoping everything went okay on your Paris trip and I'm glad your home safe. I'll bring your things with me to our next EE class.

 

[Niall]

Well Pete, I can join you in this pit today as I discovered that my car was broken into last night. Apparently there have been numerous break-ins in my neighbourhood of late. Thanks to your opening this thread and Laura's input on the validation of feeling violated, I realised that that is exactly how I feel about it.

My initial shock gave way to using humour to pretend that I was ok about it, then saying "well, at least they didn't take much" (in fact, all they took was the spare tyre in the trunk ) Most of the energy the shock released went into 4 hours of organising for the glass to be replaced and filing a report with the police. Only then did I discover that my insurance wouldn't cover it. And only then did I realise that a better option had existed from the outset for dealing with this, but which I overlooked in my traumatised state.

Then I got mad at myself for 'writing off my day', that I could and should have dealt with this better had I 'just stayed inwardly calm'. But how retarded is that line of thinking?! How can I remain inwardly calm when I actually feel violated to my core?!

Accepting and feeling this, I realised it would have to be processed somehow before it became any more toxic. And especially as I was receiving a visit from my parents shortly afterwards. So I went onto the roof of my apartment building, from where I have a 360 view of the neighbourhood, and blasted several rounds of Warrior's Breath out so loud that it echoed back off the buildings.

It helped, although I'm wondering now about the symbolism of this break-in. Is there danger nearby? Well, maybe that's an obvious question. But I mean in direct terms, as in danger entering my life. Perhaps it's more appropriate to ask, are there gaps in my awareness I need to bridge? Is there something in particular I'm not willing to see or pay attention to?

I think so. Anyway, I just wanted to share some of my observations from a similar experience.