Youtube bad science: What The Heck Is Gluten?

[3DStudent]

Anyone see this video on youtube called "What The Heck Is Gluten?". It has over a million views and says that gluten is only bad for people with celiac. The comments show that people don't really know about gluten (or don't care). I wonder what the best response to this is? Maybe post comments as links to the "Nutrition -- connecting the dots" video?. Although I think you cannot directly insert links into YT comments. Seems you need to do something like (dot)com or use address shortening websites.

 

[mkrnhr]

It seems there is a wave of some hasty corporate-sponsored pseudo-studies to protect the dogma in various areas. I thing the thing with the gluten thing is related to this paper: _http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2813%2900702-6/pdf
Notice what they write in the abstract:

We performed a double-blind cross-over trial of 37 subjects (aged 24−61 y, 6 men) with NCGS and irritable bowel syndrome (based on Rome III criteria), but not celiac disease. Participants were randomly assigned to groups given a 2-week diet of reduced FODMAPs, and were then placed on high-gluten (16 g gluten/d), low-gluten (2 g gluten/d and 14 g whey protein/d), or control (16 g whey protein/d) diets for 1 week, followed by a washout period of at least 2 weeks.

A statistical study over such a small sample, where the changes in diet are introduced every week or two (while the effects are known to require at least six weeks) is what I would call bad science.

And yet, it's this kind of badly conducted studies that the media jump on.


Added:
The rest is hilarious:

RESULTS:

In all participants, gastrointestinal symptoms consistently and significantly improved during reduced FODMAP intake, but significantly worsened to a similar degree when their diets included gluten or whey protein. Gluten-specific effects were observed in only 8% of participants. There were no diet-specific changes in any biomarker. During the 3-day rechallenge, participants' symptoms increased by similar levels among groups. Gluten-specific gastrointestinal effects were not reproduced. An order effect was observed.

CONCLUSIONS:

In a placebo-controlled, cross-over rechallenge study, we found no evidence of specific or dose-dependent effects of gluten in patients with NCGS placed diets low in FODMAPs.

Seriously...

 

[Mark7]

Just watched that YouTube video. I checked out their Facebook page as well, in the about section of their Facebook page it says it was made by Mitchell Moffit and Gregory Brown. What a load of road apples!

Wikipedia page for Mitchell Moffit: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Moffit

Mitchell Moffit (born March 28, 1988) is a singer, actor and Biology student from Guelph, Ontario. He is the co-creator of the YouTube channel ASAP science along with his partner Gregory Brown.[3][4] His entry for the Best Job in the World promotion run 2008-2009 by Tourism Queensland was shortlisted along with 49 other entries. As of 24 March 2009, his submission was ranked third amongst the shortlisted videos based on user votes. Due to popular demand he made a sequel to the video.[5] He was a part of Canadian YouTube Vlog Channel ApprenticeEh in 2012

I could not see any obvious agenda but I will say that anyone can throw up a YouTube vid or Facebook Fan Page. The guy is just a Biology student and I would guess that his opinions are not based on much research. Perhaps publicity and popularity are the main goal on Youtube as well as their Fanpage: _https://www.facebook.com/AsapSCIENCE

I just left a comment on the YouTube vid saying that there are plenty of reasons why gluten could be bad for just about anyone and to Google "the dangers of gluten" to find well researched information in order to make an informed decision.

You can't really leave links in youtube comments but if you have a specific website that ranks high for specific keywords, you can ask people to Google those keywords, alternatively, you can suggest people go to "website(dot)com" or "website(dot)com / article name" leaving in the spaces and sometimes people will go to the site anyway. Fwiw

 

[Mark7]

Bit.ly won't work either... unless you put in spaces - "bit . ly / sqqsf"

 

[H-KQGE]

The situation is embarrassing, frustrating, ridiculous, but probably necessary for people to learn. Interestingly, I've been reading this topic for a week or so now. And I also thought of how to serve others (who care & want to know of course) & take strategic enclosure into consideration.

As far as YouTube goes, you can post links to stuff in the comments box, although I don't know of what would restrict the action. I've put links to REAL/ACTUAL/PROPER science articles or journals at a variety of YouTube videos comments sections. I think it's about time that I link more to SOTT - I think I was hesitant because judging from the usual banal & foul-mouthed tirades on YouTube, I imagined it on SOTT, & I didn't like that thought. But I don't think that was giving enough credit to the team, now I'll do so more; if there's enough comments wanting truth (ain't gotta be a lot - it's YouTube after all!) then I'll post Sott article links. (underscore or something)

Back to your first link 3D Student, there's one or two comments trying to educate people there, but as any who can tolerate the nonsense & read way down the list of replies will see, people don't know. Worse is that many don't care & will actively mock the most serious of topics & any who "go against the grain." (intended)

Then all the cognitive psychology stuff kicks in with the herd mentality & confirmation biases etc. FWIW, here's some of what I've seen in the recent days.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-kimmel-asks-what-is-gluten-video-2014-5

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-many-people-with-gluten-sensitivity-havent-had-proper-tests-2014-07

http://www.businessinsider.com/gluten-sensitivity-and-study-replication-2014-5

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitivity_may_not_exist.html

 

[Mark7]

As far as YouTube goes, you can post links to stuff in the comments box, although I don't know of what would restrict the action. I've put links to REAL/ACTUAL/PROPER science articles or journals at a variety of YouTube videos comments sections.

Ascien, do the links always stick? Have you gone back and checked later? I understand that sometimes the entire comment with links can get "ghosted". Maybe if the link is from a 'reputable' website it would stick. I think it depends on how the channel user sets up his channel, (comments allowed, not allowed or moderated, and other specific comment settings) and it may depend partially on the browser being used by the visitor.

 

[H-KQGE]

As far as YouTube goes, you can post links to stuff in the comments box, although I don't know of what would restrict the action. I've put links to REAL/ACTUAL/PROPER science articles or journals at a variety of YouTube videos comments sections.

Ascien, do the links always stick? Have you gone back and checked later? I understand that sometimes the entire comment with links can get "ghosted". Maybe if the link is from a 'reputable' website it would stick. I think it depends on how the channel user sets up his channel, (comments allowed, not allowed or moderated, and other specific comment settings) and it may depend partially on the browser being used by the visitor.

Yes, as I'm getting more familiar with internet technology (I feel pretty dumb just writing that - I'm a "tech-thickie") I'm finding out about "ghosting", the particular browser being used & the others you've listed. From memory (and I fly through a lot of YouTube videos in a day, many I'm not subscribed to, I just counter any garbage that's written) they've all "stuck." Then again, when I managed to do a direct link, I discovered that (obvious now) the site is a high-ranking one on Google's search & some other things associated. I'll definitely be more aware of this from today onwards. My direct links weren't more than a handful either. (Adresses can be inserted then highlighted more often it seems, than clickable links. Or perhaps many posting don't know themselves?)

Just to say, here's one from Seppo Illmarinen (forum member) from the other day. The site linked is of course "reputable." http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x57XJWmlfp4

 

[Mark7]

Thanks Ascien, I don't comment much on YouTube and have failed and largely given up on trying to post live links on the site. Nice to know it's at least worth a try. :)

It's really amazing to see the comments and the various mindsets of people on YouTube, (and Facebook). A lot of people are just not serious, or care about anything it seems. Much disinformation, and, let's face it, ignorance out there. But sometimes I come across those who are really trying to make sense of things. It's amazing how people buy into official, or official looking or sounding sites. I catch myself still doing it sometimes. Some cognitive dissonance results.

Kinda upsetting and shocking the first time a new disinfo campaign shows up like this one regarding gluten, but it's really not that surprising...

Interesting thread.

 

[A Jay]

It seems there is a wave of some hasty corporate-sponsored pseudo-studies to protect the dogma in various areas. I thing the thing with the gluten thing is related to this paper: _http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2813%2900702-6/pdf
Notice what they write in the abstract:

We performed a double-blind cross-over trial of 37 subjects (aged 24−61 y, 6 men) with NCGS and irritable bowel syndrome (based on Rome III criteria), but not celiac disease. Participants were randomly assigned to groups given a 2-week diet of reduced FODMAPs, and were then placed on high-gluten (16 g gluten/d), low-gluten (2 g gluten/d and 14 g whey protein/d), or control (16 g whey protein/d) diets for 1 week, followed by a washout period of at least 2 weeks.

A statistical study over such a small sample, where the changes in diet are introduced every week or two (while the effects are known to require at least six weeks) is what I would call bad science.

And yet, it's this kind of badly conducted studies that the media jump on.


Added:
The rest is hilarious:

RESULTS:

In all participants, gastrointestinal symptoms consistently and significantly improved during reduced FODMAP intake, but significantly worsened to a similar degree when their diets included gluten or whey protein. Gluten-specific effects were observed in only 8% of participants. There were no diet-specific changes in any biomarker. During the 3-day rechallenge, participants' symptoms increased by similar levels among groups. Gluten-specific gastrointestinal effects were not reproduced. An order effect was observed.

CONCLUSIONS:

In a placebo-controlled, cross-over rechallenge study, we found no evidence of specific or dose-dependent effects of gluten in patients with NCGS placed diets low in FODMAPs.

Seriously...

I saw several postings of this study today (the consensus being that gluten intolerance is b.s.), but only just now read it. It's got just enough 'science' for propaganda, but like you said their methodology was flawed so it should have been tossed out. Really desperate, the purveyors of wheat must be.

 

[Gaby]

Someone sent me a link to the article, asking me to comment. Apparently it has created a lot of confusion. I read the review of the article, and the first impression I had was that there was no real consensus as to which foods contain gluten. For mainstream science, it is wheat, barley and a few others. In reality, all grains have gluten-like proteins and/or anti-nutrients such as lectins which are infamous for triggering autoimmune and digestive problems. So the whole gluten-free industry falls here too.

That is why gluten-free is pretty useless for some people trying to recover their health. And that is why the ketogenic diet is ideal: you remove ALL grains and carbs which are inflammatory. So "fodmaps" get removed as well.

Perhaps the data from the study is interesting in that it shows that carbs are evil for lots of folks. But from there to conclude that non-celiac gluten intolerance does not exist is ignorance at its best. Tell that to all of those whose nervous system has been ravaged by gluten!

People, including the authors of the study need to understand that...

Gluten - Biohazard and pathogen
http://www.sott.net/article/279173-Gluten-Biohazard-and-pathogen

While the lay public engages in a veritable feeding frenzy over gluten free products, now a multi-billion dollar industry, the research community is only beginning to grasp that perhaps, instead of "blaming the victim" and looking for an answer to the wide range of adverse health effects it produces within the human genome, we must start understanding celiac disease and non-celiac gluten sensitivity not as an unhealthy reaction to an intrinsically healthy food, but rather as an adaptive reaction to an intrinsically unhealthy or toxic 'food.'

More of the same is not going to solve our current global health catastrophe. That is insane and insanity is the rule rather than the exception in the medical science nowadays...

 

[Tigersoap]

Recently I also read or heard on the radio a few news going into that direction.
Seems like there is a lot of damage control going on.

Moreover, they always picture the gluten intolerance as a "disease", with something that's wrong with you, something that will make you an outcast because you won't be able to enjoy food as you used to (hence the variety of gluten free products that mimics the "normal" diet").
They put a lot of emphasis on the social aspect of not eating like the rest of the population, which must be very difficult to cope with for certain persons.

 

[Gaby]

Recently I also read or heard on the radio a few news going into that direction.
Seems like there is a lot of damage control going on.

Moreover, they always picture the gluten intolerance as a "disease", with something that's wrong with you, something that will make you an outcast because you won't be able to enjoy food as you used to (hence the variety of gluten free products that mimics the "normal" diet").
They put a lot of emphasis on the social aspect of not eating like the rest of the population, which must be very difficult to cope with for certain persons.

Yeah, it is completely insane to force-feed toxic food to a population who can't tolerate it. Reminds me of a story a doctor told me to impress me with their technological advances... Basically, that people with gluten intolerance are given immune factors and what nots and then, they are fed gluten in a hospital control setting to see if they can tolerate it again. I can't hardly remember anything more barbaric than that. In my book, it is right there with torture...

The cognitive dissonance and brainwashing is such, that even when you explain why this is a terrible idea, you get the impression that you are talking with a wall, that there is no intelligence or capability to connect the dots behind that blank face. Weird.

 

[H-KQGE]

The cognitive dissonance and brainwashing is such, that even when you explain why this is a terrible idea, you get the impression that you are talking with a wall, that there is no intelligence or capability to connect the dots behind that blank face. Weird.

Yup. Reminds me of the butcher I stopped going to at the beginning of last year. After I had told him & his staff about my health (came about mainly due to his sausages containing gluten & other inflammatory ingredients) & they seemed to understand, the owner told me about his adult daughter. "Oh, she's intolerant to gluten too?" I said. "Yeah, but she's all good now." He replied. I wondered how she got through the issue & what her knowledge base was, so I asked him. "Well, she stopped eating stuff with gluten like you. Now she can eat bread & other things again." was my reaction. I rattled my brain for answers to this anomaly. I asked him when was the last time he saw her. (either months prior, or the previous year was his reply - this interaction took place in 2012 btw)
I just looked at him... and he just looked back with a matter-of-fact look on his face. I told him that this couldn't be, but he insisted that all she needed was some kind of break from eating gluten. As if it was an over--indulgence in confectionery or something. "Ok, when are you seeing her next?" I asked. "Ooh, probably in a couple of months... she lives in Australia." I ended the conversation there.

Worse still, one of his older staff who knows a fair bit for someone claiming not to research, simply cannot be bothered to attempt to change his diet. He demonstrated his understanding for some of the things I said to him, adding to the conversation about the mechanisms of metabolism, sugar & cancer, dairy & brain fog (& phlegm) & more. What got me was when the oldest of the butchers ( there were four of 'em I think) died from cancer a few months after I started to go there. And all the staff continued to order their breakfasts of bread, or pastry, coffee with milk & sugar & regular cigarettes. And this guy isn't the only person I've spoken with that genuinely knows more than I thought they did, & just says: "hey were all gonna die sometime innit?" How's that for weird?

 

[nicklebleu]

The cognitive dissonance and brainwashing is such, that even when you explain why this is a terrible idea, you get the impression that you are talking with a wall, that there is no intelligence or capability to connect the dots behind that blank face. Weird.

Yup. Reminds me of the butcher I stopped going to at the beginning of last year. After I had told him & his staff about my health (came about mainly due to his sausages containing gluten & other inflammatory ingredients) & they seemed to understand, the owner told me about his adult daughter. "Oh, she's intolerant to gluten too?" I said. "Yeah, but she's all good now." He replied. I wondered how she got through the issue & what her knowledge base was, so I asked him. "Well, she stopped eating stuff with gluten like you. Now she can eat bread & other things again." was my reaction. I rattled my brain for answers to this anomaly. I asked him when was the last time he saw her. (either months prior, or the previous year was his reply - this interaction took place in 2012 btw)
I just looked at him... and he just looked back with a matter-of-fact look on his face. I told him that this couldn't be, but he insisted that all she needed was some kind of break from eating gluten. As if it was an over--indulgence in confectionery or something. "Ok, when are you seeing her next?" I asked. "Ooh, probably in a couple of months... she lives in Australia." I ended the conversation there.

Worse still, one of his older staff who knows a fair bit for someone claiming not to research, simply cannot be bothered to attempt to change his diet. He demonstrated his understanding for some of the things I said to him, adding to the conversation about the mechanisms of metabolism, sugar & cancer, dairy & brain fog (& phlegm) & more. What got me was when the oldest of the butchers ( there were four of 'em I think) died from cancer a few months after I started to go there. And all the staff continued to order their breakfasts of bread, or pastry, coffee with milk & sugar & regular cigarettes. And this guy isn't the only person I've spoken with that genuinely knows more than I thought they did, & just says: "hey were all gonna die sometime innit?" How's that for weird?

I know ... I found that weird too. I have a relative who has MS and He is barely able to walk (he is in his mid-40s). I told him that a ketogenic diet was of great benefit in this condition, but when he heard that he wouldn't be able to eat bread and cheese, and wouldn't be able to drink wine anymore (he is a winemaker), that was it for him. He would rather die prematurely ...

As to gluten, one should never forget that gluten splits into opiate-like substances in the gut, which are absorbed into the blood and make their way to the brain, where they produce feelings of "wellbeing". It's an addictive substance.