ZEITGEIST

ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Deckard said:
The third part - Man behind the curtain was sort of an anticlimax - you think - cool now they going to wrap everything up and bring the real issue home but they end up with some kind of very confusing love&light message
Just watched the movie as well. My thoughts exactly about the last part. My reaction was stick to the factual information, don't drift away in this love thing. As I understand it, this movie was made from an American perspective but I lacked a mention of the influence of Israel/Zionism.

seekingObjectivity said:
If a person starts to ACTUALLY begin to see how this could be true then for all intents and purposes watching this video cannot really be that bad of a thing. However, I suppose it could be a bad thing if, in fact, the one who watches it starts to actually believe anything it says without some sort of research and/or verification of the information presented. It seems to me that if a person decides to really believe what is said without thinking about what is said, that is, memorizing the facts then both the people producing the video and the person watching it are wasting their time.
I just wanted to comment that when I started to wake up, researching on the internet and watching movies like this, that I went straight from believing one thing to believing another, letting the likes of Alex Jones or David Icke tell me what it is that I should believe. Just my thought from personal experience that it's very hard to make it past the other hurdles or to even realize that they are there and of what we are up against.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Hello all,

I watched the movie myself yesterday and thought it was quite well done. It included a lot of important information about the reality of what's been going on in the U.S. in three 'digestable' parts that, if nothing else, shock the viewer in a profound way into thinking twice about the illusion in which they live.

Now, to the (hopefully constructive) point of this post of mine:
What follows is a bit off-topic but at the same time related to the movie in question and SOTT/Cass in particular.

I decided to poke around and see the kind of 'community' this movie is involved in and investigate the kind of people that find it 'good.' Being moderately active in 'facebook,' I found a discussion group there that links fans of the Zeitgeist movie.

One of the topics in the group is "Zeitgeist - Part 4?," where a member suggested we give our input on what could be added to the movie to expand its effectiveness and scope. That same member suggested that the UFO phenomenon be included.

I decided to respond to this, and suggest that the topic of psychopathy ought to have been an integral part of the movie (for obvious reasons):
I said:
I agree that the UFO phenomenon is a big deal - HUGE. Abductions and well-documented UFO sightings aside, how does a logical person account for the thousands of crop circles that appear every year around the globe? Planks and ropes?!
Here's a collection of pictures of most crop circles since the late 90's, and have fun imagining a well-orchestrated global-wide band of pranksters with planks and ropes doing all these in one night in complete darkness in other people's farms: http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/newweb/imglib.php

However, unlike all the things covered by Zeitgeist, the UFO phenomenon is not man-made. It has no real solution. There's nothing we, as people, can do about it. Therefore, I don't think it would be a relevant Part 4 to the movie.


Now - what this movie IS missing is a part on psychology. Namely, the study of psychopathy. Its influence on everything that Zeitgeist talks about is astounding, to say the least. Psychopathy is the -WHY- of all that's going on in the world right now, the reason behind the senselessness of the elite's drive for 'world domination' and total control. Psychopaths are not like you or I - they have no conscience, no real emotion. We've become desensitized to them because our modern culture FAVORS them. Please read the works of psychologists Robert Hare, Martha Stout, Hervey Cleckley, and Andrew Lobaczewski.

Here's a good summary of what I'm talking about:

"In the present time, psychopathy is best understood in the terms of two seminal works on the subject: Without Conscience by Robert Hare and The Mask of Sanity by Hervey M. Cleckley. A psychopath is exactly that: conscienceless, and, most importantly, this is hidden from view behind a mask of normality that is often so convincing that even experts are deceived. A third, more recent work, Snakes In Suits by Robert Hare and Paul Babiak, has taken the research to a new level emphasizing the fact that, as a result of their ability to conceal their true nature, psychopaths easily become the Snakes in Suits that control our world. Harvard psychologist Martha Stout describes this lethal combination:

"Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless."

Psychopathy is defined in psychiatry as a condition characterised by lack of empathy or conscience, grandiosity, arrogance, callousness, superficiality, poor impulse control and manipulative behaviors designed to gain control of others and resources. The psychopath is also said to be short-tempered, lacking guilt and anxiety and is prone to delinquency and criminality."

http://www.cassiopedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Psychopathy


Please also consider this from author Kurt Vonnegut in an interview from 2003:

Q (Joel Bleifuss from In These Times): My feeling from talking to readers and friends is that many people are beginning to despair. Do you think that we've lost reason to hope?

A (Vonnegut): I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened, though, is that it has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d'etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka "Christians," and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or "PPs."

To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable medical diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete's foot. The classic medical text on PPs is The Mask of Sanity by Dr. Hervey Cleckley. Read it! PPs are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. They cannot care because they are nuts. They have a screw loose!

And what syndrome better describes so many executives at Enron and WorldCom and on and on, who have enriched themselves while ruining their employees and investors and country, and who still feel as pure as the driven snow, no matter what anybody may say to or about them? And so many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick.

What has allowed so many PPs to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can't. Do this! Do that! Mobilize the reserves! Privatize the public schools! Attack Iraq! Cut health care! Tap everybody's telephone! Cut taxes on the rich! Build a trillion-dollar missile shield! F*** habeas corpus and the Sierra Club and In These Times, and kiss my ass!

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/44/


And that's just scratching the surface. Please read up on this!
You can start here: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

If there is to be a Part 4 to this movie, psychopathy ought to be the topic, because we CAN do something about it.
What I got in response rather surprised me. Another member wrote the following:
some guy said:
That was a nice post but I should caution you on your use of sources. The Cassiopaean's are not credible at all and are considered a cult by many cult watch groups. They're really, really out there on some of their theories.

I think a better Part 4 would be to systematically identify the tactics governments and corporations use in order to manipulate the public. There was no more of a prominent man in this field than Edward Bernays. He essentially laid the framework for all modern propaganda and public manipulation techniques in use today. If we understand the tactics, we will be able to identify them when they're being used.

http://en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
http://en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self
http://video(dot)google(dot)ca/videoplay?docid=-2637635365191428174
http://video(dot)google(dot)ca/videoplay?docid=3081752751625862941
http://video(dot)google(dot)ca/videoplay?docid=4127471896206528068
http://www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=sZ8ZvYNlxiM

You can find a lot more info on this man and the monster he created. Keep looking all.
I got curious about that bolded part! Namely, where he was getting this information. I responded thus:
I said:
"That was a nice post but I should caution you on your use of sources. The Cassiopaean's are not credible at all and are considered a cult by many cult watch groups. They're really, really out there on some of their theories."

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

May I ask for the evidence suggesting the supposed cult-like behavior of the Cassiopaean web-site? To say that an alternative news site (which, by the way, shares most views with what the Zeitgeist movie is saying, albeit much more in-depth) is not credible at all warrants some hard evidence, I think.

I have looked into the Cassiopaean material in-depth over a long period of time, and I can assure you that not only are they harmless and don't fit ANY definition of a 'cult' whatsoever, they seem to be spot-on in most in their theories concerning the true nature of our world. Their 'detractors' (the so-called 'cult watch groups', among others) are even more questionable than the source they're trying to debunk, as can be evidenced by the tactics (personal/ad hominem attacks, spreading of false information, death threats, etc.) they have used (and still apparently use) to discredit the Signs of the Times team.

To believe, without questioning, the label of self-proclaimed 'authorities' such as 'cult watch groups' is the same as the condition that's keeping most Americans from seeing 9/11 for what it is and to totally ignore the reality of the 'War on Terror' on account of BELIEVING self-proclaimed 'terrorist experts,' government 'authorities,' and those 'experts' that were an integral part of the 9/11 Commission.

However, all of this is irrelevant (as is your claim that the source I happened to use is not credible), simply because the 'theory' of psychopathy is NOT Cassiopaean in origin. It IS integral to the work of TRUE experts in psychology that I listed above (Robert Hare, Martha Stout, Hervey Cleckley, Andrew Lobaczewski, et al). The fact that Signs of the Times has realized the importance of such information and has decided to research and promote it has no relation whatsoever to the credibility of the original scientific material.

So, like I said - let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

By the way, for all those interested in this topic, the aforementioned "Mask of Sanity" by Hervey Cleckley, MD can be downloaded legally in its entirety here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF


"I think a better Part 4 would be to systematically identify the tactics governments and corporations use in order to manipulate the public."

I think this is a good idea, as well. The topic of public manipulation was mentioned in Part 2 of the movie as it related to the "War on Terror" and "terrorism" - if you repeat the lie enough, people will come to believe it. A more in-depth analysis of all tactics used would be worthwhile, I think, and would do well to expand the themes of the movie.
To which he responded:
the other guy said:
It wasn't my purpose to dismiss what you wrote, only that you could have sourced it better. There are dozens of articles written by Psych Ph.D's that you could have used. Laura-Knight Jadczyk (leader of the Casseiopaeans) is a convicted criminal in the United States that has stolen tens of thousands of dollars from unfortunate dupes. She ran to France to escape conviction. That is what I've heard anyways, the evidence is mostly anecdotal. Beyond that, the core information the group uses comes from Laura's "channelings" in which she uses an Ouija board to talk to her future self from another planet. She constantly writes how aliens are coming to destroy and enslave humanity and that the now defunct COINTELPRO is still operating. In fact, she accuses anyone who disagrees with her a COINTELPRO agent, I have experienced that personally. Anyone who asks questions about the Casseiopaeans on their discussion boards is promptly banned. This is totally against the values and morals that "Zeitgeist" is trying to instill in people. The behaviour of the Cassiopaeans is not intellectually or morally sound.

Here is an article by Laura herself that will confirm some of her views:
http://www(dot)bibliotecapleyades(dot)net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_32.htm

And more sources:
http://www(dot)survivingthefall(dot)net/cassiopaeans_information.html

http://www(dot)godlikeproductions(dot)com/bbs/message.php?page=1&messageid=115499&showdate=7/1/07&mpage=1
Huge discussion board thread on the Casseiopaeans by other people and new-agers, not quite singing their praises.

http://www(dot)shoutwire(dot)com/comments/41423/Shoutwires_Insidious_Cult
Expose done by one of the site editors, a little condescending, but well researched. Read the comments section, see how long it took for the SOTT writers to bombard and overrun the discussion. (*Hint - they're the ones posting messages 10 pages long)

But really, all you need is the actual Cassiopaean transcripts:
http://perceval(dot)netfirms(dot)com/sessions/sessions.htm

I don't want this to sound like an ad hominem attack. Some of their work isn't too bad. My problem is with their tactics and the relentless attacks people have suffered at the hands of the Cassiopaeans just because they decided to question Laura's conclusions. This runs completely contrary to the values of "Zeitgeist" and it would be very detrimental to the film if the two became affiliated. The Cassiopaeans fall under Part 1 of "Zeitgeist" in that they attack anyone who doesn't agree with their particular form of dogma.
I had a feeling this guy was of the Shoutwire gang! Small (cyber)world, indeed.

Now, I do want to make a smart response to this so as to not let this guy smear SOTT/Cass's reputation on this particular discussion board with his 'evidence' and thus steer potential truth-seekers away from this site with this garbage. I wish to ask the forum members for advice about how to best deal with this particular situation.

If the moderators feel this should have been posted elsewhere, please move it to an appropriate spot in the forum.

I'm looking forward to your responses.
Thanks, all :)

edit: (dot)'ed the disinfo links in the guy's post...
Also, I realize this guy's probably been spoon-fed the disinfo by the Shoutwire useful idiots without thinking twice about the 'evidence' that was provided (though he did mention he "experienced it personally," whatever that may mean); there were many weak-minded individuals that fell (and may still fall) for that stunt. As such, I do want to be careful with my approach here; hence, my question for help.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

maybe you should have replied to those serious accusations

by linking him to vinnie materials from QFS site

as he is the one who has started these slanders,

its always good to keep the record straight IMO
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Well, this is par for the course any time you reference these sites out there on the wwweb - try to not take it personally. This 'someguy' has his mind made up and no amount of convincing will change it - and it doesn't matter, ultimately. If you'd like to leave a link to the VB information, explaining that 'yeah, I read all that nonsense, this is the guy who started it, if anyone is interested' - then feel free, just don't expect it to make much of a difference.

Those who are interested will find us and those who aren't won't - all we can do is keep the lighthouse lit. Above all, don't put any more of your own energy into a situation that will not change - it basically feeds them. They can choose to 'believe' anything they want, and we don't make a practice of going to other forums and telling them what is wrong with their thinking (that's why we remove those who try to do it here on our forum, with no data to back it up, of course -- that's probably what he means by 'experienced it himself' - he came to the forum and was an ass and was removed... we'd need an IP address to be sure though).

Others may have better input on this one, but that's my take at the moment.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

sHiZo963 said:
What I got in response rather surprised me. Another member wrote the following:
some fool said:
That was a nice post but I should caution you on your use of sources. The Cassiopaean's are not credible at all and are considered a cult by many cult watch groups. They're really, really out there on some of their theories.

I think a better Part 4 would be to systematically identify the tactics governments and corporations use in order to manipulate the public.
Right there is your opportunity to point out that psychopathy IS how govs and corps manipulate people - by ponerizing them, after which they go along willingly.

Stay away from the bait when people bad mouth the Cassiopaeans, Laura, et al, and stay on track about psychopathy. There's probably no real need to mention or link to Cassiopaea. Mentioning Andrew Lobaczewski (as you did along with the other experts) is a good start, since eventually people might also find SoTT as a result of looking into his work. From there it's a short step to Cassiopaea-related information, if they so choose.

Point being that unless people learn about psychopathy then we're all in really deep trouble. So it's extremely important to spread the information.

Interesting how the guy totally bypassed psychopathy and went straight into an attack about Cassiopaea, eh? What a great distraction. Try to see that coming, even expect it.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Mark said:
Interesting how the guy totally bypassed psychopathy and went straight into an attack about Cassiopaea, eh? What a great distraction. Try to see that coming, even expect it.
It is a typical tactic of psychopaths, too, by the way, to distract attention from psychopathy and blame a victim for being victimized by psychopaths!

I just love that part about being a "convicted criminal."

As psychotherapist Amos Gunsberg points out, there is a way to detect a psychopath:

EVIDENCE OF PSYCHOPATHIC BEHAVIOR

They make pronouncements without substantiation. To them, these pronouncements represent what reality is . . . pronouncement by pronouncement. The present pronouncement may contradict what they said a moment ago. This means nothing to them. They make no attempt to deal with the contradiction.

They demonstrate a total lack of understanding what we mean by a "fact." In their writings and in their speech, they do not use that word.

We humans find this hard to believe. The use of facts is such a basic part of our lives. We base our conclusions and our actions on them. We go on from there to test things and establish more facts. When we debate, we present facts, and show how we derive our observations and our positions from them.

Without facts, all we have is what we call "fantasy."

Since these creatures have a human appearance, we assume they must think like us . . . be aware of what we are aware. We think they MUST know what facts are. When they don't address the facts, we say they are playing a game. We think they do know what the facts are, but don't want to admit it.

Not so! They DON'T know what a fact is. When we speak of facts and ask them to address the facts, they look at us with vacant eyes. They don't know what we're talking about.

They study us because their strategy is to pass as human. They hear us use the words -- facts, evidence, substantiation. They lack the human capacity to understand what we mean. What they do is ignore our reference to facts, ignore our requests for them to supply facts, and hope we won't notice it's due to their lack of comprehension.
So, quote the above to this guy and ask him to produce a single fact that can be backed up and checked about his "declarations." Just ONE. A legal document that can be confirmed to be real would do. Links to other psychopaths ranting without facts won't do.

Finally, keep in mind that this guy is actually doing us a favor because he is promoting us via controversy. The kind of people we would like to reach are the kind that can already see through this kind of nonsense. Those who can't see through, probably never will. Quoting Shoutwire's own advice to writers:

If you've written enough solid work, you begin to get a reputation. People love you, hate you, or even want to kick your -arse-. Once you start receiving threatening emails, you know you're on the right track.
As my daughter says, "it doesn't matter what they say about you as long as they ARE talking about you and spell your name right!" We couldn't pay for the kind of publicity these nutzoids provide!
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

For those who aren't aware of it yet, we have our own full-time cointelpro team on our case, following anyone around the web who says anything nice about us and doing exactly what happened in this case. They must spend hours at it because you can count on them appearing as surely as a trip to the toilet follows a large meal.

What is curious is that this small group is the reason we began investigating psychopathy in the first place! Their behaviour was so unexpected and surprising, defying any logic or sense of reason after a couple of years of email exchanges, that Laura began her research that developed into her work on psychopathy. And all that Laura had done was say 'No'.

So it was the psychopaths, it was those without conscience, who opened the door to the whole field of psychopathy and ponerology. Without their "good work" in just being the deviants they are, Laura would not have created our psychopathy pages, and without the pscyhopathy pages, Andres Lobaczewski would never have contacted us and offered us his manuscript!

How's that for poetic justice!

Their persistence for over five years is evidence that someone doesn't want this knowledge out there. I mean, let's say that you are upset with someone because they told you 'No' to something. Would you then start making up the most outlandish stories about them, accusing them of being criminals, and then post it to the Internet? Would you tell lies about them on the Internet, threaten their kids, write to government officials trying to get them into trouble?

And would you continue doing this for over five years?

What kind of person would do such a thing? Really, think about it. Either these folks are completely wackoo or they are being paid for it. Or both.

So the way to deal with them is to demand data, facts, proof.

Aside from the point that Laura raised about these attacks being publicity, the other function they perform is to weed out people who don't bother to do any research to verify what they read.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Thanks everyone for your comments.
I took all you said into account and responded with the following:
I said:
I have already read, many months ago, the links you have posted about Cassiopaea.

The Shoutwire incident was strange indeed, and it wasn't helped by the immaturity and utter stupidity of some Shoutwire members who like to get into flame wars for no apparent reason. That 'expose' was NOT well-researched; you see, to come to any objective conclusions about the Cassiopaea web-site and SOTT group (about anything, really), you have to READ the material and based on the evidence reach an un-biased conclusion. This guy went into writing this 'piece' with a mind already made up (biased from the start, i.e. with an agenda) and found 'evidence' to support it - poor evidence, I might add, because it was ALL taken out of context. Yes, there is a LOT to read to even get a GIST of what they're REALLY talking about. No, it's not for everyone to put in that kind of effort. However, you can't reach any sort of 'conclusion' about something by nit-picking data out of context, as this guy did.

The Colleen Johnston link is pure disinformation. She seems to be affiliated with a character named Vincent Bridges who is known to go out of his way - to this day - to spread false information about Cassiopaea on the internet, including at the GodLikeProductions forum you linked. Again, what's strange is that these two people were NOT ever really affiliated with Cassiopaea, and yet they claim to have done 'extensive research' to reach their conclusion that it is a 'cult' and what-not.

As for the channeling: the team is very clear with what that's all about - it is a carefully conducted experiment. Just because it's 'weird' to us doesn't mean it's garbage. Nothing the Cassiopaeans 'say' is taken at face value. Everything is researched as much as it can be with real-world data. The sessions are posted for everyone to see and make up their own minds - it's called transparency. All of the research material is available free on the internet for anyone to study as they see fit:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/site_map_qfg.htm

For what it's worth, allow me to post links to information that counters what is claimed by these anti-Cass/SOTT people. There is a LOT to read, simply because there is REAL evidence to support it - i.e. you get the whole story with data to back it up.
- The following is a link to information about Maynerd Most, a pseudonym for Vincent Bridges, that exposes him as a liar and scam artist:
http://www.cassiopaea.com/archive/most.htm
- The following is a link to the forum of SOTT that contains a post by Laura that explains the whole 'escaping to France' and supposed 'raffle scam' debacle:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=673&p=1
- As for the 'being banned from the discussion board,' this happens because the SOTT forum is NOT like other discussion boards. It is there FOR A REASON and is moderated to reduce useless and manipulative posts and comments (see Shoutwire). Simply put, people don't read the forum GOALS and RULES before signing up and posting, and are then shocked to be banned for breaking them:
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/misc.php?action=rules


Finally, it was never my intention to affiliate the Cass/SOTT group with Zeitgeist. I simply used links from the site as sources for an idea/suggestion for Part 4 of the movie; namely, psychopathy.


Your idea for Part 4 (propaganda tactics) and mine are actually quite interrelated. Assuming (with high accuracy) that the 'elites' of the Fed and U.S. government are indeed essential psychopaths (literature confirms this - see Andrew Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology and Snakes In Suits by Robert Hare and Paul Babiak), they are predisposed to lie and impose their 'truths' upon the normal people via the mass media.

Psychopaths, as the expert literature shows, are masters at manipulation, able to twist any bit of Truth and ideology to fit and further their own agenda. Notice what has happened with the ideas of "Freedom" and "Democracy" in the MSM and how they have been used repeatedly as justification for taking away same, both abroad and at home, to benefit a small group of 'elites'. The thing is, for psychopaths, 'facts' don't exist; they literally create their own reality via double-speak and other propaganda tactics.

Here's an article (covered by SOTT) that you might like:
The Doors Of Perception: Why Americans Will Believe Almost Anything
Tim O'Shea
Mercola.com
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:54 EDT
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/135824-The+Doors+Of+Perception%3A+Why+Americans+Will+Believe+Almost+Anything

And here's an excellent evidence-based article by SOTT linking the above with the 'War on Terror' and 'terrorism,' as well as psychopathy. Well worth the read, especially because it deals with and expands on Part 2 of Zeitgeist:
Creating Reality And The "War On Terror" - A 'How To' Guide
Joe Quinn
Signs of the Times
Thu, 24 May 2007 18:35 EDT
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/132848-Creating+Reality+And+The+%22War+On+Terror%22+-+A+%27How+To%27+Guide
So, the information is there for all to see and read and understand.

Deckard said:
maybe you should have replied to those serious accusations
by linking him to vinnie materials from QFS site
as he is the one who has started these slanders,
its always good to keep the record straight IMO
anart said:
If you'd like to leave a link to the VB information, explaining that 'yeah, I read all that nonsense, this is the guy who started it, if anyone is interested' - then feel free, just don't expect it to make much of a difference.
mark said:
Stay away from the bait when people bad mouth the Cassiopaeans, Laura, et al, and stay on track about psychopathy.
I shall follow up with more psychopathy information so as to 'spread the word' (this was my intention from the very beginning), but will probably leave the Cass/SOTT stuff alone regardless of the response to what I've posted. I felt that since the 'cat got let out of the bag' already, I should at least "keep the record straight" by providing links to the Cass/SOTT side of the story so as to counter the disinformation posted.

henry said:
Aside from the point that Laura raised about these attacks being publicity, the other function they perform is to weed out people who don't bother to do any research to verify what they read.
These are excellent points, Henry and Laura; it may have been favorable, after all, to have this exchange on the facebook discussion board.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Found a relevant excerpt from Laura entitled "Splitting Realities", where she basically lays out the "rules of conduct"

Laura said:
Now, allow me to say here - paraphrasing Pajak, that the method of peaceful resistance is a morally correct self-defence method which results from the practical applications of the Principle of Counterpolarity. This method is extremely effective in all situations when someone is attacked verbally, or via any subversive campaign, and when the attackers are telepathically or hypnotically programmed collaborators of 4 D STS.

If the attacked person adheres to STO, the method described here provides an excellent means of defence, which is peaceful and fully expresses the C's remark that a person ought to act in favor of their destiny.

In cases of such attacks, the Principle of Counterpolarity recommends to do as follows:

(a) allow our attackers to generate as much negative feelings as they wish, and to spread as many lies as they wish;
(b) keep a close watch on ourselve as the feelings arise, and do not allow any of it to be wasted; if you respond at all, do as Ark did, find the one key point and just simply repeat it, thereby conserving energy. One way to do this is to remind ourselves that the attackers are asleep and are unaware of how cunningly 4 D STS manipulate their feelings and actions. It is also, as the C's have said, important to remind ourselves that the real source of the attack is the 4 DSTS beings - not the muppets/collaborators that are used attack us. Thus, we never have to be angry at them.
(c) concentrate on solutions to the problems that are caused by our attackers, not on the attackers that cause these problems; it is important to logically and cooly determine how these consequences affect us, and also how they affect all other people around us. For example, people who join our groups with the intent of promoting their view and tearing down our work are wasting the time of all of those people who are able to see the STS manipulation and wish to spend their time dealing with other issues, and not trying to endless explain things to individuals who are, undoubtedly, STS by choice, or Organic Portals.
(d) impartially and without any negative feelings: tell/inform everyone around us, and/or publish the full information regarding the attacks, who is doing it, exactly what they are doing, what consequences these attacks are going to bring for us, and what consequences they are going to bring to all other people around us.

This method of peaceful resistance - acting for one's own destiny - works. It produces a knowledge/awareness block that transforms any emotions of the person being attacked into something very much like a para-physical force. It is a utilization of the Principle of Counterpolarity.

In attack situations, the attackers generally have to already be in a state of negative emotion in regard to us in order to attack us. You could say that these negative feelings are like "electrical charges" or psychic lightning that they are directing at us.

If in response to the negative feelings that they have toward us that stimulates them to invade our space and violate our free will, we also generate negative feelings, our own feelings may cause us to want to retaliate toward that person, but that is exactly what they want us to do. They want to engage us in a direct exchange, a one on one "feeding." If we engage with them directly, trying to withstand the attack alone, we thus we accept the attack on ourselves. One must never forget that they are the portals of 4 D STS - ANYONE who violates another's Free Will - and you simply cannot engage with them directly.

However, if we do not respond, but instead transform the emotional energy that rises in us into positive action, sharing the information, transforming it into a learning experience, this creates the knowledge-awareness block of many people who are aware because of the sharing, and whose awareness DOES have the force to repel 4 D STS.

So, if we tell everyone around us the entire truth about the attack, and about the consequences this attack is going to bring to us and to others, our environment forms a kind of closed circuit which generates feelings that block and/or oppose the charge directed at us from 4 D STS, through the agency of the attackers.

Therefore it is our environment which BECOMES HYPERDIMENSIONAL.

And this is, of course, the underlying principle of acting FOR one's destiny. It is the principle upon which the material is published on the signs page. With a sufficient amount of awareness, with polite, but firm and steadfast resistance, the results manifest themselves in ways that simply cannot be explained.
Here's the page link: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/realitysplit.htm
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

I watched it. I agree very well made. One of the best as far as the amount of material it fits in -- jam-packed. I think it will very enlightening for people to hear stated so clearly that the US's current slaughterfests in the mideast are going exactly as planned and that perpetuation of the conflict is the real goal.

The omissions, as I perceived:
- No Israel.
- No psychopathy, though Rockefeller's mafia-like declaration, "What do you care about the people for? Take care of yourself and your family," would have provided a great entry point.
- Nothing about a depopulation plan.
- Nothing about natural disasters.
- Nothing about a new economic collapse. I'm nit-picking here. These last three have a very immediate and big scare effect on people, which can have a shocking, disorienting effect and energize the STS/survivalist motor in people, which may have been consciously avoided, probably wisely if this film is intended as a primer only.
- No global warming, which is a "hot" topic.
- Nothing on more sinister mind-control techniques.
- Nothing on suppressed technologies or existence of advanced technologies.
- Not that much on secret societies.
- Surprising omission of the Cold War, which is a kind of model for the War on Terror.
- Nothing really about compartmentalization of governments and links between "intelligence services." A bit about how the US is involved in the internal affairs of every nation might've helped.
- No UFOs, though I didn't expect it to be covered.
- Nothing on New Age spirituality as a distraction, though it would only add about a minute to sum that up.

As for the brief appearances of Ruppert, Sagan, Dobbs, etc., well, I don't necessarily see a huge problem using these sources to get truth across and not revealing them as disinformational, so long as they're not endorsed explicitly -- SOTT does this, after all. No one's research is perfect and these sources do provide a "stepping stone" for some people as they have truth in them (though citing Lou Dobbs by name does kind of muss his message on controlled media). I think it's more confrontational and easy to turn someone off when you do the Alan Watt thing and simply blurt stuff like, "Arthur C. Clarke, a very high-degree Freemason... and H.G. Wells, who was tasked with promoting the New World Order...."

I tried to think, what would someone who's really under the ether say -- someone whose programming fought to reject the film's message? I think most drowsy Americans would find quite a gap in the film that doesn't explain how their system of government, the two-party system, the Congress, and all the supposed checks and balances could be bypassed by a power elite. It might be possible for a viewer to assume that the filmmaker thinks that all these people are impossibly "in on the conspiracy," which is unbelievable for good reason. A little more history about the founding of the USA might've helped, especially because it is USA-centric. Ties to politics aren't made strongly, IMO. China isn't mentioned at all, for instance, nor Russia, even though the same tactics to foment revolutions and wars have been used on those societies.

I'm being very critical, obviously. Going overboard would've sunk the film. No Israel with regard to 9/11 and no linking of intelligence services are probably the greatest omissions, IMO. Still, as a stepping stone, it's a good summary of some of what's going on.

I personally struggle, though, with the idea of trying to preach to or convert specific people using tools like this. The trick is in offering them materials that can raise awareness only if they so choose. Tough one, that is.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

AdPop said:
I personally struggle, though, with the idea of trying to preach to or convert specific people using tools like this. The trick is in offering them materials that can raise awareness only if they so choose. Tough one, that is.
I struggle with that as well at times. However, I think there is no harm in spreading this kind of information/film to friends/family or post it on boards like myspace/tribe. Kinda like "hey check this out!". I don't see it as preachy at all and out of my own experience this approach has helped jump-start some people's "awakening" on some level. What they do with it and how everyone follows up is up to them.

I'd actually wish that SOTT would produce a documentary about the "basics" of what is going on in the world based on their research (which will already be deeper than Zeitgeist), especially exposing the Disinfo that is out there as well. I think it's a powerful way to reach people, especially in this age of information boom. I really think that if something is presented in an intelligent way and presented with quality, the impact could be outstanding.
Aren't here any film makers/ editors on this board or in the circle who could create something like that?
Too often these kind of documentaries are done by people who have no experience/idea about making a good film/documentary.
Now I know this is not an easy project and I'm not a film maker, but I thought I'd bring it up........maybe has been brought up already anyway.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

This movie seems to have pierced the veil for my sister. Initially it shocked her, but then couple of days later she asked me: "Ok, so what do I read now?" I advised her to try again with The Wave Series. She attempted to read it some time ago, but it was too "weird" and "outlandish" for her. Well, it is not anymore :)
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

j0da said:
This movie seems to have pierced the veil for my sister. Initially it shocked her, but then couple of days later she asked me: "Ok, so what do I read now?" I advised her to try again with The Wave Series. She attempted to read it some time ago, but it was too "weird" and "outlandish" for her. Well, it is not anymore :)
Hmmm, what about suggesting 911 the Ultimate Truth as a better follow up to this film than the Wave? Since the subject matter is more similar and it might ease her into some more of the 'outlandish' ideas? Just a thought.
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Well..she already read Amazing Grace, then tried The Wave. This was too much, so she backed off and I didn't suggest her anything afterwards. Then some months later I showed her Carlin's piece about religion at youtube. She liked it, so when some time passed again I've sent her link to Zeitgeist movie.

If The Wave turns out to be too steep gradient I will certainly propose her "911 the Ultimate Truth" if she still will be interested. We shall see. Thanks for your concern anart :)
 
ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

Hey, Deckard (in response to your post on page 1), I'm curious, actually shocked would be more appropriate, as to why you would say Carl Sagan raises a red flag with you. I grew up reading his books (Broca's Brain, Dragon's of Eden, Contact, Cosmos etc.) and always pictured him as a cheerful scientist whose only agenda was the responsible development of science. As far as mainstream science literature goes, I would place him near the top with Asimov. Any particular reason he's on your naughty list?
 

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