Videos Discussing Psychopathy - Jim Clemente, Profiler

Just wanted to chime in and say that these were really creepy to watch, and disturbing. The premeditation behind Jodi's gruesome crime is what made me feel sick. I also agree with the others that Clemente would be great to have as a guest on SoTT talk Radio. He really seems to know the subject of psychopathy at a deep visceral level, and his insights dovetails well with the thread on female psychopathy, because we can match Jodi's behaviour to the data points in that thread. They might be even more dangerous a breed of psychopaths in that they play the pity card and can mimic these emotions so well, its easy to get taken in. It really is all about them. If this is what Lisa is like, then as mentioned in the Lisa Giuliani thread, please be careful.
 
Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Here is what former FBI agent Jim Clemente has to say about Jackson and the "child abuse case" against him [15:13 - 25:08]:


https://youtu.be/2UDJyZ2oLEs

Notice that he was involved in the case and probably would have testified in court, if he would not have developed/fought cancer at that time.

I've to admit that I have not studied the allegations against Jackson. The only thing I know, is some of the media coverage of it all.
I also have to admit that I believed in his innocence, but only because of a big lack of hard data about it all and a somewhat emotional reaction to his death, fueled by the media.

Now I'm asking myself: What if it is true?
And I kind of feel bad, for such an uncritical stance/view of Jackson's case in hindsight, because of a lack of actual hard data on my side... Because, what if it is true?

So I'm in no way capable to come to a conclusion, but Clementes statements surely are making me think more critical in that respect...

Has anyone here researched the case of Jackson in depth and if so, what is your conclusion?
 
Mariama said:
These videos and Jim Clemente are excellent. They are also highly fascinating. Thank you, Laura, for finding these.

I watched a lot of interviews with Amanda Knox last week, before I knew that she was innocent. Jody Aries reminds me somehow of her, her mannerisms that is.
With Knox it was also about her, her, her, she would be crying and sniffing at the drop of a hat, just like Aries, both doing gymnastics during the trial or an interview. Only Aries is a ruthless killer. The way she killed her ex is just gruesome. Then we see her in the courtroom without any make up and glasses for some special effects. She is indeed brilliant at her game.

It would be really interesting to hear Clemente's impressions of Amanda Knox. Pity The LipTV didn't make an interview about her. In any case, it would be great to have him on SOTT radio show.

And, indeed, the videos are really educating! Thank you for sharing.
 
In the videos, Jodi Arias comes across as being in total control of herself with flat affect. Her general demeanor while talking about "death penalty or life imprisonment" was like she was making a choice between two options in a restaurant. While petitioning the jury in favor of life imprisonment by highlighting her accomplishments (donating her hair, plans to recycle garbage and teach sign language), apart from the obvious vacuousness of the content of her speech, she showed almost no emotions in her facial expression or body language. She seemed like an automaton to me. The short video clip where she was trying to convince the police inspector that if she wanted to murder someone, she would use gloves, her body language was far more purposeful.

She exhibited obsessive stalking behavior towards Travis before murdering him. She apparently slashed his tires, sneaked into his house, hacked internet accounts etc. Stabbing someone that many times usually indicates a lot of rage (as per Clemente's tv show Criminal Minds). Her parents reported that she had bipolar like symptoms and would "freak out all the time". Travis's friend reported her as being quiet and somewhat mysterious with strong signs of a jealous lover. She used her sex appeal on a personal one-to-one basis but apparently did not make a good social impression in more public gatherings. Coworkers commented on her flat affect as well. She tried to pass herself as a Mormon since Travis was Mormon but her efforts were regarded as fake and hollow by others. Apparently, Travis's friends tolerated her but did not like her. In "Picture Perfect: The Jodi Arias Story" , an executive director with Prepaid Legal where Jodi and Travis worked is quoted as saying

"When you looked at Jodi, it was like she was empty. She never talked about her life, her past, her family, any friends. No one really knew anything about her - ever. She just kind of morphed into whoever she was around. She just took on the personality of whoever else was in the room.

Apparently she does not fit the profile of a charming sociopath. Clemente called her a "brilliant sociopath". She did not display much intelligence during her trial. Maybe the way she tried to get under the skin of the prosecutor earned her that epithet. Being a chameleon seems to be a common factor - and perhaps much of her behavior- including "profiling the prosecutor" - can be attributed to this reflexive feature rather than a well thought out and planned strategy ?
 
obyvatel said:
Apparently she does not fit the profile of a charming sociopath. Clemente called her a "brilliant sociopath". She did not display much intelligence during her trial. Maybe the way she tried to get under the skin of the prosecutor earned her that epithet. Being a chameleon seems to be a common factor - and perhaps much of her behavior- including "profiling the prosecutor" - can be attributed to this reflexive feature rather than a well thought out and planned strategy ?

Yeah, I think that being a "brilliant sociopath/psychopath" can be different from being "smart". I think he meant that her psychopathic traits were always perfectly in control of her behavior no matter that they were pathetic in the eyes of witnesses. In a way, it is kind of sad when you see someone with such a profound lack of insight. They just canNOT see themselves.
 
I find these videos of Clayton Weatherston's trial interesting in showing what seems to be an extremely narcissistic sociopath (NB: Warning content of videos may be disturbing). Weatherston stabbed his ex-girlfriend 216 times, showed no remorse in his trial, and continued to attack her character and attempt to preserve his own character throughout the trial. From the public's perspective, he just seems like a monster, but he seems to nevertheless hold his own "character" in high esteem and be unaware of what kind of perception regular empathic people have of him. In putting him on the stand, the defense tried to use the fact he was narcissistic, by arguing a case along the lines of "you don't have to like him, but when you see how narcissistic he is, you will understand why he was provoked to murder."

"Weatherston takes the stand at murder trial News Video": _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2ETkiPDomU

"Weatherston asked about mutilation": _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zebOVoFY0BE
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Ah, Pashalis! Don't get me started on Michael Jackson! :)

Personally (and that's just my opinion), I'm convinced he was a pedophile. 'Living with Michael Jackson' by Martin Bashir as well as another report (the references of which elude me at the moment, but I'll keep looking) show much damning evidence. I've read a little bit about this subject, over the years.

Here is some additional data (from the top of my head, I'll see if I can recall/find more):

- LaToya (Michael Jackson's sister) - who self-exiled from the family many years ago - said in 1993 that 'This has been going since 1981, and it's not just one child.' She claims that everyone in the family knows and that Katherine (the mother) has shown her checks made out to Michael's alleged victims' parents. She later came back on this and was subsequently re-invited to a Jackson family gathering.

- Some of the kids who claim to have been molested by Jackson gave a particular detail about Jackson's penis that turned out to be true.

- Maids have testified that to access Jackson's bedroom (where he was 'entertaining' the kids), you had to go through a system rang an alarm in Jackson's bedroom so that he knew well in advance when staff were approaching the vicinity of the bedroom.

- Staff was supposed to sort out the mail Jackson was getting. Letters from little girls were to be discarded. Jackson wanted to read the mail coming from little boys under 13 only.

- When Jackson was a young man (and already a star), he met a young boy with whom he 'became friends'. He asked the young boy if he could call him sometime. The young boy, starstruck, agreed. One night, Jackson called him and the starstruck boy recorded the conversation with his idol. In the report, you can hear that tape and it is clearly a younger Michael Jackson speaking. Jackson asks questions of a sexual nature to the kid and appears to be masturbating during the conversation.

- Jackson's grooming technique was to invite young boys over, watch a scary movie (typically 'The Exorcist') and 'because the movie was so frightening', to propose the boys to sleep in his bed. After a few times, Michael would engage in oral sex and masturbation.

- A bag with underwear (adult and young boy) was found in a part of Neverland. The underwear showed Jackson's DNA and traces of cocaine.

- Of all the people Jackson could have hired to work for him as movie directors, Jackson hired Fred Schaffel (aka Marc Schaffel/Marc Fredric(k)s). Schaffel is a gay porn producer who specializes in very young looking/teenage male actors he recruits in Eastern European countries. Schaffel worked as executive producer for Jackson's video What More Can I Give. The link between Schaffel and Jackson was denied by Jackson't lawyer. But Jackson's lawyer apparently failed to warn his own client because Jackson actually thanks Fred Schaffel in the credits of his album Invicible 'Marc Schaffel.... Thank you for all your help.... I love you.' Footages were found of kids having fun in Neverland, all of them filmed by Schaffel.

- It is not rare to hear pedophiles claim to be in love and to talk about the purity of their love, of their feelings for children, something that 'no adult can understand and that society blames because it has a dirty mind'. That's exactly what Jackson was saying.

I feel for Jackson and his traumatic life story. He was a talented artist, too.

But still, he was doing some really shady business with kids. Any man his age doing what he did (have a theme park at home, invite kids over with whom you sleep and get naked, asking a pornographer to film private videos of these kids, etc.) would be considered a pedophile. But people tend to find all sorts of excuses when it comes to celebrities (Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, R Kelly, Michel Pollack, the list goes on and on...).
 
I am currently reading a report that Clemente wrote about the Gerald A Sandusky case. Really interesting as he gives information about "nice guy" child sex offenders and their victims.
Although the topic is very disturbing, it is a joy to be able to come in contact with such a wonderfully trained mind. Such clear thought.
Also as I read it, I recount my personal trials and Sott's with pathological minds. I have found in my life that I now am quite guarded internally whilst trying to retain my, I hope, outwardly friendly nature. Such is life on the BBM I suppose. As always,"Knowledge protects, Ignorance Endangers".
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Ah, Pashalis! Don't get me started on Michael Jackson! :)

Personally (and that's just my opinion), I'm convinced he was a pedophile. 'Living with Michael Jackson' by Martin Bashir as well as another report (the references of which elude me at the moment, but I'll keep looking) show much damning evidence. I've read a little bit about this subject, over the years.

Here is some additional data (from the top of my head, I'll see if I can recall/find more):

- LaToya (Michael Jackson's sister) - who self-exiled from the family many years ago - said in 1993 that 'This has been going since 1981, and it's not just one child.' She claims that everyone in the family knows and that Katherine (the mother) has shown her checks made out to Michael's alleged victims' parents. She later came back on this and was subsequently re-invited to a Jackson family gathering.

- Some of the kids who claim to have been molested by Jackson gave a particular detail about Jackson's penis that turned out to be true.

- Maids have testified that to access Jackson's bedroom (where he was 'entertaining' the kids), you had to go through a system rang an alarm in Jackson's bedroom so that he knew well in advance when staff were approaching the vicinity of the bedroom.

- Staff was supposed to sort out the mail Jackson was getting. Letters from little girls were to be discarded. Jackson wanted to read the mail coming from little boys under 13 only.

- When Jackson was a young man (and already a star), he met a young boy with whom he 'became friends'. He asked the young boy if he could call him sometime. The young boy, starstruck, agreed. One night, Jackson called him and the starstruck boy recorded the conversation with his idol. In the report, you can hear that tape and it is clearly a younger Michael Jackson speaking. Jackson asks questions of a sexual nature to the kid and appears to be masturbating during the conversation.

- Jackson's grooming technique was to invite young boys over, watch a scary movie (typically 'The Exorcist') and 'because the movie was so frightening', to propose the boys to sleep in his bed. After a few times, Michael would engage in oral sex and masturbation.

- A bag with underwear (adult and young boy) was found in a part of Neverland. The underwear showed Jackson's DNA and traces of cocaine.

- Of all the people Jackson could have hired to work for him as movie directors, Jackson hired Fred Schaffel (aka Marc Schaffel/Marc Fredric(k)s). Schaffel is a gay porn producer who specializes in very young looking/teenage male actors he recruits in Eastern European countries. Schaffel worked as executive producer for Jackson's video What More Can I Give. The link between Schaffel and Jackson was denied by Jackson't lawyer. But Jackson's lawyer apparently failed to warn his own client because Jackson actually thanks Fred Schaffel in the credits of his album Invicible 'Marc Schaffel.... Thank you for all your help.... I love you.' Footages were found of kids having fun in Neverland, all of them filmed by Schaffel.

- It is not rare to hear pedophiles claim to be in love and to talk about the purity of their love, of their feelings for children, something that 'no adult can understand and that society blames because it has a dirty mind'. That's exactly what Jackson was saying.

I feel for Jackson and his traumatic life story. He was a talented artist, too.

But still, he was doing some really shady business with kids. Any man his age doing what he did (have a theme park at home, invite kids over with whom you sleep and get naked, asking a pornographer to film private videos of these kids, etc.) would be considered a pedophile. But people tend to find all sorts of excuses when it comes to celebrities (Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, R Kelly, Michel Pollack, the list goes on and on...).

Thanks Mrs. Tigersoap, do you know the sources of the things you have listed?
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Pashalis said:
Thanks Mrs. Tigersoap, do you know the sources of the things you have listed?

I found the report the reference of which I had forgotten: it's 'Louis, Martin & Michael' by Louis Theroux (BBC, 2003). Very interesting documentary.
There is also the Martin Bashir interview, as well as the book Hollywood, Interrupted by Breitbart and Ebner (can't say I'm a fan of them - their style is a bit 'in your face' but I've read several books about Hollywood's dark secrets and they are actually spot on about a lot, so I tend to give them some credit so far).
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

This has always saddened me. We all WANTED to believe that the allegations were not true because he seemed to be such a beautiful soul. Seemed being the operative word.
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Gloria54 said:
This has always saddened me. We all WANTED to believe that the allegations were not true because he seemed to be such a beautiful soul. Seemed being the operative word.

I don't think you can grow up the way he did, live the life he lived, and not be pretty sick. Liz Taylor (long may she wave!) said he was the "most normal" person she knew. Well, who did she know? And what about her own life choices?

Yes, MJ projected this image of a beautiful, gentle soul, but a lot of his music was just SICK. No other word for it. I actually watched my very first MJ music video the other day and had to turn it off after just a few minutes because it really was disgusting.

So no, I'm not surprised that he was a predatory pervert. Maybe he was a psychopath of the feminine variety that we've been looking at the last week or so? They can sure take people in!
 
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies

Laura said:
So no, I'm not surprised that he was a predatory pervert. Maybe he was a psychopath of the feminine variety that we've been looking at the last week or so? They can sure take people in!

I would agree with this.
He portrayed himself as a soft soul, too fragile to grow-up, always talking in a soft feminine voice & when the whole abuse scandal started he was only the victim in all of this media frenzy.
His nickname was Bambi...Bambi from hell more like.

I don't know but if you just try to think about the person, without the songs or the fame surrounding him, he was pretty scary.
I would not have wanted him to be around my child in any case.
 
Just a few tidbits from David McGowan's 'Programmed to Kill' about the JonBenét Ramsey case.

Pretending and faking grief like Amanda:

Ann Louise Bardach, writing for Vanity Fair, quoted one officer's recollections of John and Patsy's reactions to the discovery of the body: "What was interesting was when [John] Ramsey brought the body upstairs he never cried. But when he laid her down, he started to moan, while peering around to see who was looking." Patsy, he said, "peer[ed] at him through splayed fingers" while making sobbing sounds. The officer described being haunted by the manner in which Patsy kept staring at him. He also noted that he never saw either of the Ramseys attempt to comfort or console the other.

I thought it was interesting that the Ramseys hired a profiler. Profiling the opposition, the way Amanda profiled the prosecutor?

In addition to the legal firepower, the Ramseys also hired a professional spokesman. ...
Another addition to the Ramsey spin team was premier FBI profiler John Douglas. One of his former colleagues, Gregg McCrary, was also approached to join the team, but he declined the offer--after offering the opinion that the murder looked to him like a "staged domestic homicide".
 
Watching through these videos, I also found this where Jodi Arias truly shows what a chameleon she can be:

'Jodi thought the camera was off'

http://youtu.be/nGHhg-gj7PM


A agree with others that Jim Clemente is a smart cookie! For example, in this video he quickly shows the obvious errors in the Ramsey "ransom note" (sorry if this is was posted already):

http://youtu.be/qVGC0CDVq6s
 
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