Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies
More about Jackson from Clemente (15:08 - 27:50):
And another one (17:56 - 33:03):
More about Jackson from Clemente (15:08 - 27:50):
And another one (17:56 - 33:03):
Videos Discussing Psychopathy - Jim Clemente, Profiler
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Quitintyme
A Disturbance in the Force
I really enjoyed these videos as well. I spent all yesterday watching vids about psychopaths. I got especially crepeed out watching Dr. James Farrell talking about discovering that he was a psychopath through his studies. It is in another vid by liptv. Fascinating! You may want to check it out. Sorry, I still am not very good at this tech stuff so I don't yet know how to put in links. :/ There is another video with him talking about the brain of psychopaths, too. Very interesting, a psychopath discovered his psychopathology while studying the brains of psychopaths!
SMM
The Living Force
Thank you for sharing these videos, Clemente is very well spoken and educated. I watched the Jodi Aros and Ramsey videos and had shivers down my spind imagining some of the content. His analysis was clear and informative.
It would be really good to have him on SOTT Talk Radio!
It would be really good to have him on SOTT Talk Radio!
l apprenti de forgeron
The Living Force
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies
With the famous pedophiles happens the same that certain priests: many people protects them. Give them the benefit of the doubt (or directly deny such allegations ) before the pain of the victims. And worst of all is when the truth of their condition can not be refused, the protectors say "but it is a great actor / musician " or " but is a good priest". It really is sad and disturbing .
These days I am deciding whether or not I will see another Woody Allen film. Once, a former girlfriend, told me that she could never see a film of a pedophile. What I thought was good. but I forgot, a probable "he is funny, so is a good guy" program and kept watching his movies (the whole stories of the psychoanalyzed neurotic that tries to adapt to the life in NY, it seemed funny). I really needed to read about the suffering of Dylan Farrow to realize the dimension of evil. Doubt that now I can see another movie of him without thinking that he is a disgusting pedophile.
Yeah, not around your own children or the children of anyone else, if that is possible.Tigersoap said:
With the famous pedophiles happens the same that certain priests: many people protects them. Give them the benefit of the doubt (or directly deny such allegations ) before the pain of the victims. And worst of all is when the truth of their condition can not be refused, the protectors say "but it is a great actor / musician " or " but is a good priest". It really is sad and disturbing .
These days I am deciding whether or not I will see another Woody Allen film. Once, a former girlfriend, told me that she could never see a film of a pedophile. What I thought was good. but I forgot, a probable "he is funny, so is a good guy" program and kept watching his movies (the whole stories of the psychoanalyzed neurotic that tries to adapt to the life in NY, it seemed funny). I really needed to read about the suffering of Dylan Farrow to realize the dimension of evil. Doubt that now I can see another movie of him without thinking that he is a disgusting pedophile.
H-KQGE
Dagobah Resident
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies
Well that's the thing about the cult of the celebrity. So many of us live our lives vicariously through people who seem to encapsulate what we wish for ourselves. I'll use what instantly came to mind just now: in the first two "Alien" movies there's the little hand-claw creature that hatches from the eggs of the "xenomorph queen", it latches on to the face of a person & deposits what will become the creature we all know.
When it is threatened by an outside force it tightens its grip via its tail, that's wrapped around the new host's neck to demonstrate that, "if I go, the host goes with me". So many minds have large quantities of "pathological debris" orbiting the ego that it seems almost impossible to get rid of. I actually think that many have the potential to get psychologically clean but the trouble, as always, is the constant bombardment of psychopathological material being recycled 24/7, this adds to what was acquired during childhood (& for the most part, ran unchecked) trauma, including other factors that the forum has threads on.
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Well that's the thing about the cult of the celebrity. So many of us live our lives vicariously through people who seem to encapsulate what we wish for ourselves. I'll use what instantly came to mind just now: in the first two "Alien" movies there's the little hand-claw creature that hatches from the eggs of the "xenomorph queen", it latches on to the face of a person & deposits what will become the creature we all know.
When it is threatened by an outside force it tightens its grip via its tail, that's wrapped around the new host's neck to demonstrate that, "if I go, the host goes with me". So many minds have large quantities of "pathological debris" orbiting the ego that it seems almost impossible to get rid of. I actually think that many have the potential to get psychologically clean but the trouble, as always, is the constant bombardment of psychopathological material being recycled 24/7, this adds to what was acquired during childhood (& for the most part, ran unchecked) trauma, including other factors that the forum has threads on.
SMM said:
Indeed.
I also found it interesting to hear that he himself was sexually abused when he was young, worked with the FBI to catch the predator, which landed him a job, if I am not mistaken. :/
He probably knows what it feels like to be a victim.
Mariama said:
Lobaczewski alludes to the idea that those who have suffered at the hands of psychopaths, once they have analyzed and understood what happened, are probably the best to teach/help others. Lobaczewski also says we don't have a real language to describe these things and it is true. When you interact with one, it's like being an a totally different reality and you "come back" and try to put it into words and it is difficult.
Even when you finally get it in your head that it is what it IS, it still feels like alien territory.
Aoide
Jedi
Laura said:
Yes, very true. When I watched the videos about Jodi Arias I just couldn't understand how she could be so calm after such horrible crime. I tried to put myself into her position and I just can't. It starts to hurt so much, my psyche can't endure it. When I observed Jodi's "crying" I tried to imagine what's in her head at that moment that makes her capable of showing such emotion while actually being cold. I know how psychopaths are functioning (based on forum research), but I can't touch it fully, words are hard to find to describe that feeling. It's disturbing to observe them and to see all that coldness.
When you read about them is one thing, but to observe them, like in these videos, makes big difference in experiencing who they really are.
Aoide said:
Yes, yes, and yes. And what is amazing is to watch them, and then have Clemente point out the stuff YOU MISSED because you were taken in by the drama. There you are (me, in this case), feeling sorry for her, projecting all kinds of excuses, and then he snaps you up short with the most OBVIOUS thing of all: It's all about them, not a shred of real remorse or empathy! It's like we miss the gorilla in the room. We are so busy looking for NORMAL markers, we miss the biggest one of all.
It's like this Selective Attention test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY
Well, if you know about it, then you SEE it. Same with psychopathy, I think.
Laura said:
I had to remind myself that this girlie looking woman had slaughtered her partner, because I also noticed myself being taken in, thinking about the projects she wanted to do and whether that was a good idea or not!
What also helped me was seeing the immense grief that members of the family of the victim displayed in court. Then one can also see the difference between real and fake emotions. The grief seemed to be pouring out of these family members. I observed the same difference between Amanda Knox and her family members. Her sister and her mother at one point seemed to collapse under the weight of their misery, while Amanda still seemed cool and collected, although she was crying. OSIT.
truth seeker
The Living Force
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies
I think that comes pretty close to what so many of us experience. Maybe it's our own need to have our worldview (that the world is safe and comforting) supported. We consent to whatever program fits the internalized image we have of ourselves.H-kqge said:
Yes. I think these memes or pathological narratives serve to reinforce out innate childhood need to feel secure. Our individual traumas stunt our growth, psychologically speaking, so at whatever point in time that happened (and depending on what was important to us at the time whether it be art/creativity, gender roles, etc) may determine where the gaps were and what narrative(s) we are most susceptible to.H-kqge said:
H-KQGE
Dagobah Resident
Aoide said:
The closest I can get to putting myself in her position (or any out-and-out pathological type) is to remember the emotional numbness I've had for nearly two decades. From there I can look at patterns of behavior from non-killers, but still violent &/or manipulative. There, all other relative data is sifted through to see what emerges, but in my younger years I lacked all of this information & could only observe (in a fuzzy way) what I saw. Occasionally then (& regularly now - I find myself fighting tears for all sorts) I would feel really awful & hate it & try to stop feeling that pain. Anyway, this reminds me of my intrigue with "psychological thrillers" in the 90's.
Movies such as "kiss the girls", "along came a spider" & "se7ven" (to name a few) had an effect on me because of the profilers themselves. A conversation I once had with an acquaintance was based on a fictional profiler discussing how they did their job - "getting into the mind of a killer". I'm sure that a profiler can be drawn in too far, (in the movies a colleague or someone would accuse the profiler protagonist of "being to close" & admiring the killer) but maybe not exactly like movie depictions.
What held my attention in all of the horrors of those movies was the dedication to assessment, evaluation, research & a certain Sherlock Holmes type quality of discernment to clues that everybody else thought irrelevant. What I also noticed was how the profiler protagonist wouldn't have big emotional reactions that other law enforcement officials would have (understandably) but perhaps, smaller ones that would be mis-read as "being cold". I would think that maybe they too had some emotional block that allowed them to go deeper into a particular case, despite claims to the contrary by others exclaiming disgust & other associated words, the profiler might care too deeply to let any emotions cloud their thought processes, after all, a lot of the time they were trying to anticipate the killer.
But after catching the killer & even getting a conviction, the profiler could have an outpouring of emotion behind closed doors which is something that wouldn't be thought of by others, that this person would have to be stronger than others, put on their "game face" (probably to portray discipline) & engage in "psychological jousting" with individuals that aren't "hampered" by emotions that grants them access to so much goodwill & faith by virtually all others, meaning that the stimulus - grandiosity, narcissism, boredom & wanting control over everyone in every situation - is constant. If the profiler would let any larger emotional displays arise they might not be able to be as effective. It seems that many of us here have been preparing to learn this difficult & most pressing subject matter for most of our lives. I certainly admire the strength & courage of profilers more now.
Hopefully we can provide an adequate language of all psychology for minds across the spectrum, because in the most traumatic of times, i.e. now, major rebuilding & reintegration work is most definitely needed to deal with the mother of all traumas: cosmic & global upheavals.
H-KQGE
Dagobah Resident
Re: Re: Michael Jackson Dies
An exchange occurs whereby, one person calls another person a name which person number two finds insulting. They react to it (or over-react as is often the case) & respond in kind to the perceived insult (whether it was insulting or not, subjectivity throws a spanner in here) & thus, the daily interaction for psycho-emotional dominance is completed. Thing is, taking out all other possible parts of this equation of the human condition (like "attachments" for example), all of these things can be traced back to a specific time & place in childhood; typically pre-pubescence. So basically, when people are splitting & all the rest, (like projecting) what the observer is seeing (if they have the knowledge & awareness) is a snapshot of the little boy/girl that experienced high stress.
The loss of security, trust, respect, love, are some of the things that get piled on top of one another in a negative way. A sort of vacuum begins to be "filled" with erroneous detailed information in line with the moment-to-moment editing that our brains engage in that can distort memories. This indeed stunts our psychological growth, & the best way to battle the issue is to do so when they occur (currently, I think what ever amount of suffering really is needed. On current evidence of the state of the planet, actual trauma might favour many "souls" "in the future") which would mean more people with properly functioning minds & well regulated emotional energy. IOW, fully grown adults & not the screaming tit-for-tat, black and white "magical thinking" self-indulgent children that we are/have been telling each other that we aren't. Strangers to ourselves or what?
FWIW I think - anyone please correct me if I'm wrong - that the overriding problem is absorbing an influx of contradictory (& somewhat fleeting) feelings at a critical period of development & being intangible, we struggle to process them into a coherent narrative; since all of our lives is an "evolving" narrative. These "energies in motion" collide head-on with the now obvious (to us here at least) psychopathological narratives passed on to us by whatever carer is in our midst. And it's no longer a trickle down effect from our predatory hierarchy either, it's just shoved in our face & most of us still can't see it, such has been the effectiveness over time, of our "education".
To me it looks like a "true story" of "consciousness units" ("soul group(s)") that naively gave up a chunk of its/their creative energy for a wish, one that was/is a dream of "something better" (grass is greener on the other side idea) that simply isn't/wasn't so. Thus like a prison tale, each one must "do their time" without fuss (go along with the sts agenda) or suffer the consequences, on the other hand, one or more can consciously suffer enough to be aware of the situation, start to pay attention, & read those books that the prison offers you (cuz the "state" doesn't think you'll ever know what they are, much less use them) & grow. Learn about "the game" & it's players & search for others that are similar to themselves...well you guys know the rest, many eyes, consensus, co-liniearity etc.
truth seeker said:
An exchange occurs whereby, one person calls another person a name which person number two finds insulting. They react to it (or over-react as is often the case) & respond in kind to the perceived insult (whether it was insulting or not, subjectivity throws a spanner in here) & thus, the daily interaction for psycho-emotional dominance is completed. Thing is, taking out all other possible parts of this equation of the human condition (like "attachments" for example), all of these things can be traced back to a specific time & place in childhood; typically pre-pubescence. So basically, when people are splitting & all the rest, (like projecting) what the observer is seeing (if they have the knowledge & awareness) is a snapshot of the little boy/girl that experienced high stress.
The loss of security, trust, respect, love, are some of the things that get piled on top of one another in a negative way. A sort of vacuum begins to be "filled" with erroneous detailed information in line with the moment-to-moment editing that our brains engage in that can distort memories. This indeed stunts our psychological growth, & the best way to battle the issue is to do so when they occur (currently, I think what ever amount of suffering really is needed. On current evidence of the state of the planet, actual trauma might favour many "souls" "in the future") which would mean more people with properly functioning minds & well regulated emotional energy. IOW, fully grown adults & not the screaming tit-for-tat, black and white "magical thinking" self-indulgent children that we are/have been telling each other that we aren't. Strangers to ourselves or what?
FWIW I think - anyone please correct me if I'm wrong - that the overriding problem is absorbing an influx of contradictory (& somewhat fleeting) feelings at a critical period of development & being intangible, we struggle to process them into a coherent narrative; since all of our lives is an "evolving" narrative. These "energies in motion" collide head-on with the now obvious (to us here at least) psychopathological narratives passed on to us by whatever carer is in our midst. And it's no longer a trickle down effect from our predatory hierarchy either, it's just shoved in our face & most of us still can't see it, such has been the effectiveness over time, of our "education".
To me it looks like a "true story" of "consciousness units" ("soul group(s)") that naively gave up a chunk of its/their creative energy for a wish, one that was/is a dream of "something better" (grass is greener on the other side idea) that simply isn't/wasn't so. Thus like a prison tale, each one must "do their time" without fuss (go along with the sts agenda) or suffer the consequences, on the other hand, one or more can consciously suffer enough to be aware of the situation, start to pay attention, & read those books that the prison offers you (cuz the "state" doesn't think you'll ever know what they are, much less use them) & grow. Learn about "the game" & it's players & search for others that are similar to themselves...well you guys know the rest, many eyes, consensus, co-liniearity etc.
