Alton Towers, Sir Francis Bacon and the Rosicrucians

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Alton Towers, Sir Francis Bacon and the Rosicrucians

Laura recently suggested within another thread Death of Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh at 99 years of age. that I should set up a separate thread for ‘Alton Towers’. So here it is.

I have set out below for everyone’s benefit all the relevant quotes in the transcripts I could find relating to Alton Towers and Sir Francis Bacon:

Session June 7, 1997

Q: Now, I notice that the Celtic name for the town of St. Albans is Verulamium, and that is where Henry Percy, son of Hotspur, was killed in battle. I also notice that Sir Francis Bacon was Lord Verulam, and he was thought to be not only a Rosicrucian, but also the author of the Shakespearean plays, as well as some of the Rosicrucian manifestos...

A: Check out Alton Towers, for clues.

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Q: You guys are TOO MUCH! Next: Cayce remarked in one of his vague dissertations - and for those who accuse the C's of being vague, they ought to read Cayce, since he was a MASTER of vague! He could talk for pages and say NOTHING! - anyway he said that there were a lot of Atlanteans incarnating between the years 1909 and 1930. He described them as having strong minds and emotions as well as an 'engorgement' of carnal influences, self-indulgence and high technical ability. He also warned that there was the possibility repeating the errors of the past. Now, these are the people who have set up the world as we have it today. My question is: are we facing a replay of the Atlantean situation, in karmic terms?

A: Well, these cycles do replay from an energy standpoint, but there is always the opportunity to learn and thusly, to advance. Was not his proclamation for those born between 1909 and 1930?? And, if so, what is the significance of when it was delivered, if the orientation was one of the "present" tense?

Q: So, it was possible that he was referring to the Hitler, WWII situation.

A: Or just not referring to those of a later "date" because it was not germaine? {Seems to be a deliberate misspelling of “germane”)

Q: Okay. Who are the 'philosophers of Dancar?'

A: Philosophers who ride around in Dan's car.

Q: That was a serious question! Where and what is Dancar?

A: Why do you suppose the response was light hearted?

Q: Well, come on! What is Dan's car?

A: We ask you to define as best you can.

Q: A 'car' belonging to Dan. The subject was talked about in the 18th century.

A: Yes.

Q: To what place were they referring when they talked about Dancar?

A: British.

Q: Why would they call it Dancar?

A: Locator.

Q: There is no place called Dancar.

A: No?

Q: Supposedly, Christian Rosencruetz was initiated by the 'philosophers of Dancar.' I want to know where this blasted place is! Okay, skip it. One of the Rosicrucian manifestos said: 'God has sent messengers and signs in the heavens, namely the new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus, to show that a great council of the elect is to take place.' What do they mean by a 'great council of the elect?'

A: Pyrenees.

Q: Okay, the purported enclave of the alchemists... Why was it signified by new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus? What do they represent?

A: Novae.


Session 28 June 1997:

Q: Okay, you also suggested that I research Alton Towers. I did. All I could find was that Alton Towers is, for God's sake, an amusement park! It is the DisneyWorld of England! What am I gonna find at Alton Towers?

A: Look into this

********************************



Q: Well, Cecil was the fellow who kidnapped me. And, when he was arrested, the Navy came and took him away saying he was "incompetent to stand trial" because he had "escaped from a Navy hospital." And that essentially ended any hope of finding out where I was taken or
why. I just don't see. How does this relate to St. Augustine, the Canaries, to Oak Island - all of this? What are we doing here?

A: St. Albans.

Q: And there is more! My God! We aren't happy with Mary Magdalene and St. Augustine, and St. Anthony! Now we also have St. Albans! Of course I know that it is the place where there was a battle and one of the Percy's was killed there. It was also called Verulamian in the Celtic days, and Francis Bacon was Lord Verulam and some suspect that he was the son of Elizabeth I. But, there are only so many hours in the day, guys! I need some help here! I was hoping that I would be getting some help with the research...


Session 12 July 1997:

A: Well? And crop circles? Amazing connections... And what of "The Rosy Cross?"


Q: Well, this is what we are looking at! I have even discovered that Sir Francis Bacon's name is even derived from "beech," and that his Latin signature has the gematria number of 17 - and January 17 is the feast day of St. Anthony, who replaced St. Augustine in this affair somewhat... and I have connected the Rosicrucians all over the blasted planet, for crying out loud! And, who is who here? Just who are the good guys?


Session 19 July 1997:

Q: Well, no. Well, is this reference to Alton Towers that Ark found on the internet, about psychic projectors. That was the only unusual thing we have found about this. Are we talking about some sort of place where they have rotating shifts of psychic projectors?

A: As you know... fiction is often the guise for the deliverance of the deepest of truths. And, on that note, good night.


**********************************

On the surface these clues seem very cryptic indeed. However, when you start to drill deeper, clues do start to emerge.

If you do a Google search you will find that ‘Alton Towers’ is a modern day theme park located near the village of Alton in the English county of Staffordshire. The estate that would become Alton Towers was first developed by John Talbot, the 16th Earl of Shrewsbury in 1801. It did not become a theme park until the 1950’s.

John Talbot, 16th Earl of Shrewsbury - Wikipedia

History of Alton Towers - Wikipedia

Hence, Alton Towers itself is probably not the place that the C’s suggested was linked with Sir Francis Bacon and the Philosphers of Dancar, as it did not exist in either the 17th or 18th centuries.

However, the land on which Aton Towers now stands was formerly part of the grounds of Alton Castle and here things start to warm up.


From 1442, the castle had been in the possession of the Earls of Shrewsbury, who from the beginning of the 19th-century made their home at nearby Alton Towers. It is with the Earls of Shrewsbury that the links with Sir Francis Bacon and Rosicrucianism start to appear.

The original Norman castle at Alton was destroyed during the English Civil War (1642-51). In the 17th century, the former castle was redeveloped as a hunting lodge known as Alerton (or Alverton), which is the ancient name for Alton. The three-storey structure reused one of the castle's former towers, which remains part of the present-day building. The lodge was split into two properties, one of which was rented by a tenant. The other half was used by the Talbots (the Earls of Shrewsbury) as a summer residence.

The Earls of Shrewsbury were very influential and powerful personages throughout the 16th to the 18th centuries and held many high offices of state during this period. For example, the Sixth Earl was entrusted with the custody of Mary Queen of Scots and also served as Earl Marshal of England from 1572 to 1590. However, it is with Gilbert Talbot, his son from his first marriage to Lady Gertrude Manners who succeeded him as the 7th Earl of Shrewsbury, where the links with Sir Francis Bacon start.

Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl of Shrewsbury - Wikipedia

In 1592, he was created a Knight of the Garter, but feuded with his former friend John Stanhope when John's brother got the post of Earl Marshal of England, which Gilbert had assumed would be his.

In 1568, Gilbert married Mary Cavendish, daughter of his stepmother, Bess of Hardwick. He appears to have been a highly quarrelsome individual, feuding with not only his stepmother but his brother and other family members, his tenants, and even Queen Elizabeth I herself. He was overshadowed by his formidable wife. It appears that Sir Francis Bacon did not have a high opinion of him because he once remarked that “while Lord Shrewsbury was no doubt a great man, there was one greater than he, his wife.

As well as bringing up their three daughters, Gilbert and Mary Talbot spent a good deal of time with their orphaned niece, Arbella Stuart. The downfall of Arbella, who as the closest relative of King James I had greatly offended him by marrying her cousin William Seymour without his consent, had serious consequences for Gilbert and Mary: Mary, who had aided the marriage, went to the Tower of London as a result, and Gilbert lost his seat on the Privy Council.

However, it is through Gilbert and Mary’s youngest daughter, Alethea (1585-1654), that Bacon’s links become more apparent.

Alethea Howard, Countess of Arundel - Wikipedia

In September, 1606, she married Thomas Howard, the 14th Earl of Arundel with whom she had six children. Alethea was a famous patron and art collector and one of England's first published female scientists*, which fact might be significant given the Rosicrucian influence within the ‘Invisible College’ that would lead eventually to the establishment of the Royal Society under King Charles II. Also of note in her biography is the fact that she and her husband accompanied the Elector Palatine Frederick V and his bride Princess Elizabeth Stuart to Heidelberg on their marriage in 1613.

* Gilbert Talbot was also a noted patron of early science, and Alethea was the author of one of the earliest printed books of technical and scientific material in England to be attributed to a woman.

Frederick V of the Palatinate - Wikipedia

The marriage was celebrated in John Donne's poetic masterpiece Epithalamion, or Mariage Song on the Lady Elizabeth, and Count Palatine being married on St. Valentines Day. Shortly before the ceremony, Frederick was inducted into the order of the Garter and he wore the Order's chain during the wedding ceremony. Elaborate celebrations, organised by Sir Francis Bacon, followed the ceremony; these included a performance of The Masque of the Inner Temple and Gray's Inn by Francis Beaumont and The Memorable Masque of the Middle Temple and Lincoln's Inn by George Chapman. I suspect many of these writers were part of Bacon’s circle and may have been fellow Rosicrucians.

Frederick V reigned as King of Bohemia from 1619 to 1620. He was forced to abdicate both roles, and the brevity of his reign in Bohemia earned him the derisive sobriquet "the Winter King". His daughter Princess Sophia was eventually named heiress presumptive to the British Throne, and is the founder of the Hanoverian line of kings. This fact, therefore, has huge significance to the fate of the Stuart dynasty and the eventual usurpation of the throne by the Hanoverians and shall also be linked with the events surrounding the life of the 1st Duke of Shrewsbury, who would play a major role in helping to bring the Hanoverian dynasty to power (see more on him below). It should also be pointed out that Bohemia was a hot bed of hermeticism and it drew many alchemists to it over the years, including Dr. John Dee, the Elizabethan magus and courtier. This fact has major significance for Bacon and the Rosicrucians, given that Dee was one of Bacon’s mentors at Elizabeth I’s court.

Thomas Howard (7 July 1585 – 4 October 1646), Mary’s husband also rose to great prominence in the 17th century. Arundel was an effective diplomat during the reign of James I. After coming to court, he travelled abroad, acquiring his taste for art.

Thomas Howard, 14th Earl of Arundel - Wikipedia

He was created Knight of the Garter in 1611. He supported Sir Walter Raleigh's expedition to Guiana in 1617 and became a member of the New England Plantations Committee in 1620. This fact may be significant when one considers Bacon’s book ‘The New Atlantis’, which may have served as an inspiration or blueprint for the eventual creation of what would become the United States of America.

Arundel presided over the House of Lords Committee in April 1621 for investigating the corruption charges against Sir Francis Bacon, whom he defended from degradation from the peerage, and at whose fall he was appointed a Commissioner of the Great Seal.

Arundel was appointed Lord Steward of the royal household in April 1640. On 29 August 1621 Arundel was appointed Earl Marshal and in 1623 became Constable of England. Thus, he was unquestionably a heavy hitter in the High Society of 17th century England.

One should also note that Sir Francis Bacon died of pneumonia on the 9 April 1626 (Easter Sunday) while at the Earl of Arundel's house in Highgate, near London. William Rawley, Bacon's personal secretary and chaplain wrote of his demise: “Being unwittingly on his deathbed, the philosopher dictated his last letter to his absent host and friend Lord Arundel.

I can find no evidence that Bacon ever visited Alton Castle, It is not beyond the realms of possibility but his relationship with Alethea Howard seems to have been a lot closer than his relationship with her father, Gilbert Talbot.

Bacon was buried in St Michael's church in St Albans.



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Bacon died well before the start of the 18th century. Hence, the quote the C’s made about:

Q: A 'car' belonging to Dan. The subject was talked about in the 18th century,

could not apply directly to Bacon. However, I have found a link with the Talbots, the Earls of Shrewsbury, which may be useful here, particularly in connection with the usurpation of the royal bloodlines and the possible role the English Freemasons and Rosicrucians played in this coup d’etat.

Charles Talbot, 1st Duke of Shrewsbury (24 July 1660 – 1 February 1718)

Charles Talbot, was an English politician who was part of the Immortal Seven group that invited William III, Prince of Orange, to depose James II as English monarch during the so called ‘Glorious Revolution’. As the Duke of Shrewsbury, he was one of the greatest noblemen of the reign of Queen Anne.

With the accession in 1685 of James II, Shrewsbury was appointed a captain in order to defeat the Monmouth rebellion, although he resigned his commission in 1687 after refusing to bow to pressure from James to convert back to the Catholic faith. Making contact with William of Orange, Shrewsbury's home* became a meeting place for the opposition to James II and Shrewsbury was one of seven English statesmen to sign the invitation to William to invade England in June 1688. Shrewsbury was influential in the making of the Revolution Settlement, arguing strongly in favour of recognising William and Mary as sovereigns.

*Though the Talbot family still owned Alton Castle, it had by this time become a ruin due to its destruction in the English Civil War. It would only be rebuilt in the early 19th century. Hence, I don’t think it could have been the meeting place of the ‘Philosophers of Dancar’. But then, who knows?

Shrewsbury became Secretary of State for the Southern Department in the first administration of William and Mary, succeeding his uncle the Earl of Middleton, but resigned from William's government in 1690 due to ill-health and his opposition to the dissolution of Parliament and the dropping of the Bill that would have required an oath abjuring James as King.

There is evidence that as early as 1690, when Shrewsbury had resigned, he had made overtures to the Jacobites and was in correspondence with James II at his court in exile at Saint Germains* in France as a prelude to a possible Stuart restoration, though it has been stated on the other hand that these relations were entered upon with William's full connivance, for reasons of policy. Others aver that Shrewsbury himself was unaware of the King's knowledge and toleration, which would explain the terrified letters he was in the habit of penning to him.

*I wonder if this explains the cryptic remark the C’s made in the session of 7 June 1997:

A: Or just not referring to those of a later "date" because it was not germaine.”

Saint-Germain-en-Laye - Wikipedia

Whether this was because Talbot had had second thoughts about William III does not really come out but it strikes me as very strange that this man should suddenly do a ‘flip flop’ over the Stuarts, when he more than anyone seems to have been the major force in driving James Stuart from his throne.

However this may be, William affected to have no suspicion of Shrewsbury's loyalty, although often presented with evidence against him. On 30 April 1694, Shrewsbury was created Marquess of Alton and Duke of Shrewsbury, and he acted as one of the regents during the King's absence from England in the two following years.

On the accession of Queen Anne, the Whig leaders made an ineffectual attempt to persuade Shrewsbury to return to office. He returned at last to England on 30 December 1705, and took his seat in the House of Lord in January 1706. He gradually became alienated from his old political associates, and in 1710 he accepted the post of Lord Chamberlain in the Tory administration, to which the Queen appointed him without the knowledge of Sidney Godolphin and the Duke of Marlborough; his wife was at the same time made a Lady of the Queen’s Bedchamber.

On 29 July 1714, when Queen Anne was dying, the Earl of Oxford received his long-delayed dismissal from the office of Lord Treasurer. On 30 July, Shrewsbury and other ministers assembled at Kensington Palace and, being admitted to the queen's bedchamber, Viscount Bolingbroke (who would subsequently support the Jacobite rebellion of 1715) recommended the appointment of Shrewsbury to the vacant treasurership; Anne at once placed the staff of that high office in the Duke's hands.

Thus, when the Queen died on 1 August 1714, Shrewsbury was in a position of supreme power with reference to the momentous question of the succession to the crown. He threw his influence into the scale in favour of the Elector of Hanover, and was powerfully influential in bringing about the peaceful accession of George I, and in defeating the design of the Jacobites to place the son of James II (the ‘Old Pretender’) on the throne.

Shrewsbury left no children, and at his death the dukedom became extinct, the earldom of Shrewsbury passing to his cousin Gilbert Talbot. Gilbert was a Roman Catholic priest living abroad and on his death in 1744 the titles and estates devolved on his brother George.

This will then bring us back full circle to Charles Talbot, the 15th Earl of Shrewsbury, who started the development that became Alton Towers in the early 19th century.

John Talbot, 16th Earl of Shrewsbury

After the 15th Earl of Shrewsbury died in 1827, he was succeeded by his nephew John Talbot, 16th Earl of Shrewsbury, who completed the gardens and house started by his uncle.

In addition to the building work at Alton Towers, John set about rebuilding nearby Alton Castle. The castle occupies a rocky precipice above the River Churnet on the outskirts of the village of Alton in Staffordshire. John had most of the ruins demolished, engaging the celebrated architect Augustus Pugin to design a new gothic-revival castle, which was designed to look like a medieval castle built by English crusaders of the Knights of the Teutonic Order in Germany. Towards the end of the castle's construction, the earl suggested the castle could be a home for priests, but Pugin was "vehemently against the idea.

Most of the 12th-century ruins were demolished to make way for the new building Adjacent to Alton Castle, John had a new church constructed alongside a "replica of a medieval hospital, a guildhall and presbytery"; this was again to the designs of Augustus Pugin. The Earl's friend, Ambrose Philips, convinced him to construct a monastery: this idea developed into the hospital complex that was built, as John felt it "could do more good for the community" than a monastery. The "hospital" served as a "humanitarian almshouse", providing for the poor and elderly of the parish. The buildings also provided lodgings for poor and elderly priests, with an attached library and dining room. The church, dedicated to St. John the Baptist, was also used as a school for local poor children.

You will see that I have highlighted certain sections above. I have done this in order to suggest that John Talbot may have been influenced by Knights Templar or Knights Hospitaller principles. St. John the Baptist was certainly a saint the Knights Templar revered and both these religious military orders were required to practice charity as part of their rule, hence perhaps the reason for the almshouse. It was a tenet of Rosicrucianism, as extolled by Bacon, to practice charity, as do the Freemasons. I have not been able to establish though whether John Talbot was a Rosicrucian or a Freemason.

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Although this account does not solve all the clues given to us by the C’s, it does establish links, I think, with some of the matters that were discussed in the relevant sessions I quoted at the start of this thread.

Much of what was said in those sessions seems to link with the Rosicrucians and Freemasons for whom Sir Francis Bacon was a major player. Hence, I aim to add further material on him and his associates when time permits.

In the meantime, the quote the C’s made in the following extract from the 19 July 1997 session makes more sense to me now:

Q: Well, no. Well, is this reference to Alton Towers that Ark found on the internet, about psychic projectors. That was the only unusual thing we have found about this. Are we talking about some sort of place where they have rotating shifts of psychic projectors?

A: As you know... fiction is often the guise for the deliverance of the deepest of truths. And, on that note, good night.


It has always been the practice of the Rosicrucians to disclose deep truths through literature and plays. Francis Bacon was a master of this. This practice or tradition has been carried on by later generations of Rosicrucians such as Lewis Carroll and Edward Bulwer-Lytton, who I have previously written about in the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers thread.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
There is an interesting thread here that suggests that Sir Francis Bacon was one of the writers of Shakespeare material. It also mentions Alton Towers.
Thank you for posting this linking thread. I have quickly looked through it and note that you have been researching on very similar lines to me. I am currently researching John Dee and Francis Bacon and hope to post more material relating to the C's obscure quotes to Laura in the sessions you have identified. Perhaps we can swap notes?

I agree that Bacon was probably Shakespeare, although he may have been at the head of a group of Rosicrucian writers who assisted him in the task of writing the plays. There is a clue in his name that links him with Athena the Greek godess who is often pictured carrying a spear (hence Britannia). Joseph Farrell, a writer I greatly admire, believes Shakespeare was Edward de Vere, the Earl of Oxford. However, he was part of Bacon's circle so he could have helped him write the plays. The Rosicrucians relied heavily on plays and literature to get their esoteric ideas across. The same was true at the time of the French revolution. Perhaps you might like to look at the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers thread where I suggest that Lewis Carroll and Edward Bulwer-Lytton were Roscrucians who used their literary works to get over esoteric secrets that would have an impact on subsequent scientific discoveries.

BTW St Alban was considered to be the proto Rosicrucian by Bacon's circle. No doubt that is why he chose the name for his earldom.

I am also looking at the connection between John Dee and Giordano Bruno (who translated the Hermetica in Italy) since Bruno visited England and especially Oxford during his travels and almost certainly met with Dee. There are also strong links with Bohemia and some of the German states where Rosicrucianism would really take off. Martin Luther was by all accounts a Rosicrucian since he wore a ring with a rose cross on his finger. Hence, the Rosicrucians may have played a large part in provoking the Reformation.

What I think the C's were trying to do was to get Laura to focus on the English Rosicrucians led by Bacon, since from that starting point she would discover a whole spiders web that spreads right out around the world and has in truth produced the world we live in today. The C's said at one stage that the Rosicrucians were the Illuminati and therefore by descent the heirs of the Brotherhood of the Serpent. Once you start researching the various secret societies, Freemasonry etc. the links become more obvious. Hence, I guess the well known expression wheeels within wheels.

I think the 'Philosophers of Dancar' were Bacon and his circle who wrote the Rosicrucian Manifestos. Currently, I am working on a theory as to which place or location in England Dancar may represent. I don't think it is Alton Castle though.

I see that you live in Ireland and share my christian name. My people were Norman invaders who came over with Strongbow and settled in Kilkenny. However, as they say, they became more Irish than the Irish.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Laura: Who are the 'philosophers of Dancar?'

Q: A 'car' belonging to Dan. The subject was talked about in the 18th century.

A: Yes.

Q: To what place were they referring when they talked about Dancar?

A: British.

Q: Why would they call it Dancar?

A: Locator.

Q: There is no place called Dancar.

A: No?


I think Dancar is code for the town of Doncaster in the county of Yorkshire. Here is the Wikpaedia entry for the town: Doncaster - Wikipedia

You will see that in Roman times it was originally a fort called Danum.

The latin name for a fort is "Castra". This was often corrupted down to "Cair" in the celtic tongue and 'Caster' or 'Chester' in old English.

As you can see in the Wikipaedia entry it states that Doncaster is generally believed to be the Cair Daun listed as one of the 28 cities of Britain in the 9th-century History of the Britons traditionally attributed to Nennius.

If you reverse "Cair Daun" you get "Daun Cair", which etymologically is close to 'Dancar'. Remember Bacon and his fellow Rosicrucians were experts at codes and ciphers so a reversal like this would be child's play to them.

The only problem now is to pin down where in Doncaster the philosophers (Rosicrucians) may have met during the 18th century. There are a number of old mansions and estates in and around Doncaster. One will need to link one of these with a known or suspected Rosicrucian of the 18th century.

Any ideas?​
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
So, ummmm... what is the conclusion?

Even though I was quite gung ho at one time about solving esoteric mysteries, and the Cs' clues were very intriguing, once I fully grokked that our main job here is "karmic and simple understandings" and that the whole cosmos is one big Rubik's cube, I pretty much focused on things that had more practical value. I also learned that a lot of so-called esotericism was underpinned by a lot of religious belief of one sort or another (like the Solomon's Temple stuff), and once I had plumbed that topic and understood it, I realized that most esotericists were just a variation on Christian fundies.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
So, ummmm... what is the conclusion?

Even though I was quite gung ho at one time about solving esoteric mysteries, and the Cs' clues were very intriguing, once I fully grokked that our main job here is "karmic and simple understandings" and that the whole cosmos is one big Rubik's cube, I pretty much focused on things that had more practical value. I also learned that a lot of so-called esotericism was underpinned by a lot of religious belief of one sort or another (like the Solomon's Temple stuff), and once I had plumbed that topic and understood it, I realized that most esotericists were just a variation on Christian fundies.
I accept what you are saying but it still begs the question, at least for me, why the C’s gave you those clues in the first place.

Although Sir Francis Bacon was an esotericist yes (I don’t think he was ever a fundamentalist though), he also seemed wedded to the idea of a step by step transformation of the inner person (his seven steps) by following a path he was laying out in his Rosicrucian texts. I think this is why the C’s made a point of saying that the real aim of alchemy was the transformation of the person rather than the transmutation of the substance of one metal into another. This point seems to coincide really with what the C’s themselves have been saying all along and what you are now mentioning in the present post.

Francis Bacon may have been sincere in what he believed. He was an idealist and humanist and his book the New Atlantis sought to set out a utopian vision rather like that of Sir Thomas Moore in the previous century. However, as with many visionaries, others came along later, like Adam Weishaupt and his Illuminati etc., to corrupt that vision. Those people have been in the driving seat ever since. I guess the conclusion I was moving to was that what we are now living through is the culmination of those people’s plans to create their New World Order, their New Atlantis. Hence, they are now steering us towards repeating the same cycle all over again with the same result.

You once said that post the destruction of Atlantis the survivors seemed to form into two groups, the circles builders and the pyramid builders. These most probably represented the division between the Sons of Belial and the Sons of the Law of One. They found themselves in a post apocalyptic environment without the technological foundation they once enjoyed. One way they could preserve their knowledge of higher learning was to encode it in myth and legends and pass these on to future generations. The C’s have made reference to some of these myths in passing. The subsequent mystery schools of Sumeria, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. were used as vehicles for doing this. These schools helped to pass on that knowledge but only to those thought worthy. The Freemasons and Rosicrucians of Bacon’s time and his successors are the modern exponents of those teachings. Patiently through thousands of years these groups (no doubt with 4D STS assistance) have steered the progress of humanity so that we can get back to something approaching the level of technology and learning that Atlantis had reached. The C’s have said that we are pretty much going through an exact repeat of this, where sadly it looks as if the USA and its allies are going to be playing the role of Atlantis and perhaps the Russians are going to play the role of the Athenians.

I genuinely thought that by trying to answer these clues from years ago, it might help people’s understanding of what the C’s were driving at in those sessions. After all, they said that it was a 4D attitude to share information. Perhaps I took this message the wrong way but I thought by sharing this information and these new insights I was helping to flesh out the points the C’s were making.

I appreciate that the original messages were given nearly a quarter of a century ago and perhaps were aimed more at your state of learning at the time, whereas things have certainly moved on a lot since then. I genuinely thought it might help to answer their clues. If you are now saying all that is behind us and we should move on just with karmic learning in what time is still available to us that is fine.
 

Candice

Jedi
Hi @MJF, I wanted to express my gratitude to you for starting this thread and sharing your knowledge on the topic, it’s been very interesting so far.

The reason it’s interesting to me is personal. My late grandmother who was Austrian immigrated to South Africa after ww1. She was both a Rosicrucian and a Templar. She also did some extensive geneology research and the furthest she went back was to Bohemia.

My father also belonged to the Rosicrucians for a number of years then fell out with them and carried on with his own research. He has insinuated things about our family that I’ve avoided. Anyways, even though my grandmother was always a kind little old lady to me, I associated these groups to like belonging to a cult and as negative. I’ve felt ashamed that my family has been involved with these groups. However after reading your thread I’ve realized that my ignorance on this topic hasn’t done me any favors.

So your thread got me researching Bohemia and reading about some historic characters and seeing how they can choose very different paths. So even if they belonged to a specific family, their family doesn’t define who they are. It got me thinking about how I’m my own person, I get to choose who I am, sure I share DNA and ancestors but we’re not homogenous and if they were “bad players” in history that doesn’t mean I am. I know this is a complete diversion from your original topic but in relation to what Laura said about “simple and karmic understandings”, your thread has triggered me into facing some things and helping me in this regard. This self imposed ignorance I have about my family, it’s origins and shame I feel is like a weight I carry.

So thank you for sharing your research and I’m starting to see how networking can be very beneficial to growth.
 

Laura

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FOTCM Member
I genuinely thought that by trying to answer these clues from years ago, it might help people’s understanding of what the C’s were driving at in those sessions. After all, they said that it was a 4D attitude to share information. Perhaps I took this message the wrong way but I thought by sharing this information and these new insights I was helping to flesh out the points the C’s were making.

I appreciate that the original messages were given nearly a quarter of a century ago and perhaps were aimed more at your state of learning at the time, whereas things have certainly moved on a lot since then. I genuinely thought it might help to answer their clues. If you are now saying all that is behind us and we should move on just with karmic learning in what time is still available to us that is fine.

Well, I appreciate you digging into it; don't get me wrong. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and hope it will all become clear.

That there was a connection between Bacon and Alton Towers is interesting, I'm just wondering what was behind the scenes.

The one character that did really catch my eye was Alethea Talbot Howard. I named my first daughter Aletheia because I was so strongly attracted to the name for some unknown reason. Anyway, this woman comes across as striking and very energetic and determined. I wonder what pulling on that thread might produce???

Then, if you look at the story of Arbella Stuart, a friend/associate of Alethea, you find a lot of very interesting items, including the fact that she may have been the natural heir to the throne after Elizabeth.

I don't want to discourage you, just let you know that I'm not as gung ho on this project as I might have been in the past! I hope you and others will find something that satisfies the problem.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Well, I appreciate you digging into it; don't get me wrong. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and hope it will all become clear.

That there was a connection between Bacon and Alton Towers is interesting, I'm just wondering what was behind the scenes.

The one character that did really catch my eye was Alethea Talbot Howard. I named my first daughter Aletheia because I was so strongly attracted to the name for some unknown reason. Anyway, this woman comes across as striking and very energetic and determined. I wonder what pulling on that thread might produce???

Then, if you look at the story of Arbella Stuart, a friend/associate of Alethea, you find a lot of very interesting items, including the fact that she may have been the natural heir to the throne after Elizabeth.

I don't want to discourage you, just let you know that I'm not as gung ho on this project as I might have been in the past! I hope you and others will find something that satisfies the problem.
Thank you Laura and Candice for your comments. May I say that I came late to this Forum as I have had a lot of personal problems to deal with in the last 10 years, which haven't left me much time to contribute as I would have wished. It was the C's saying in their recent post that it was "time to jump off the fence" that was the trigger for me. I had been sitting on it for too long and had information to share which I had been withholding.

If it helps, like you I may have received some inspiration to find these details out. Sometimes when I read some of the C's comments things just jump up at me from the page. "Dancar" was an example. I like to make connections between different, sometimes disparate things. I think the C's back in the late 1990's were helping you to build your intellectual foundation for the future. They could have spoon fed you but they got you to keep digging away so that you would see a broader picture. As you said in the transcripts, when you looked, you found the Rosicrucians literally everywhere. I appreciate that you are one very busy lady and have little time to spare but if you look at the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers thread that I started, you will see the influence of later rosicrucian writers such as Lewis Carroll (who is buried in my home town) and Lewis Bulwyer-Lytton, a friend and fellow minister of state to Benjamin Disraeli. Again you can start to see Rosicrucian connections all over the place in 19th century England. Note also that just like John Dee they used pyschmanteums and transmediums to garner knowledge.

One unexpected benefit of the lockdown in England is that it has given me more time to do such research. The C's recommended that we should re-read the old transcripts, which is what I have been doing. It is curious that they once said to you that if you visited the island of Ingle Terra that you should keep your eyes, ears and mind open. I have the benefit of living here and have always been a student of English history. The C's have always said that learning is fun and I have enjoyed doing this research. It is a learning curve for me and I am very happy to share what I learn with others.

Finally, whilst I have your attention, I might suggest that Ark look into Gabriel Kron if he hasn't done so already. He was an Hungarian American who was probably General Electrics top electrical engineer of the mid-20th century.
He applied Kaluza-Klein theory to electrical systems and found it worked for him. What is important to take away is that he appreciated that 3D electrical systems were embedded and working in higher dimensions (densities). Given he was a contemporary of Einstein he may have known a thing or two about UFT. Just a suggestion.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Hi @MJF, I wanted to express my gratitude to you for starting this thread and sharing your knowledge on the topic, it’s been very interesting so far.

The reason it’s interesting to me is personal. My late grandmother who was Austrian immigrated to South Africa after ww1. She was both a Rosicrucian and a Templar. She also did some extensive geneology research and the furthest she went back was to Bohemia.

My father also belonged to the Rosicrucians for a number of years then fell out with them and carried on with his own research. He has insinuated things about our family that I’ve avoided. Anyways, even though my grandmother was always a kind little old lady to me, I associated these groups to like belonging to a cult and as negative. I’ve felt ashamed that my family has been involved with these groups. However after reading your thread I’ve realized that my ignorance on this topic hasn’t done me any favors.

So your thread got me researching Bohemia and reading about some historic characters and seeing how they can choose very different paths. So even if they belonged to a specific family, their family doesn’t define who they are. It got me thinking about how I’m my own person, I get to choose who I am, sure I share DNA and ancestors but we’re not homogenous and if they were “bad players” in history that doesn’t mean I am. I know this is a complete diversion from your original topic but in relation to what Laura said about “simple and karmic understandings”, your thread has triggered me into facing some things and helping me in this regard. This self imposed ignorance I have about my family, it’s origins and shame I feel is like a weight I carry.

So thank you for sharing your research and I’m starting to see how networking can be very beneficial to growth.
Candice, I agree with all that you say. You are your own person and should not feel guilty for what some of your ancestors may have done. I have ancestors who probably did monstous things as well but then others who were more saintly. When I married in Bristol Registry Office in 1995, I found out that the room we wed in had been the refectory of a Dominican Friary or Monastery. It had been founded in the 12th century by Gilbert de Frane the Dominican General of England, who was a distant kinsman of mine. His brother was the titular Bishop of Odessa and revered as a saintly man.

When I saw the name 'germaine' connected with the place where King James II (another kinsman of mine on my grandmother's side) went into exile and died there it had a certain poignancy for me as my paternal ancestor had gone into exile with James and probably died there as well, although his body would eventually be brought back to Ireland for burial. It makes you realise that this is part of your family history and I guess that makes it more personal.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Just some wild shots in the dark for a witch brew:

"Dan" like "Tribe of Dan"
"Car" like car-rier...of mtDNA
bloodlines like Matrilineality

...and than crown it with this:

Bon appétit.
Moyal thank for your suggestions. Yes, I have read theories before that the royal family of England is of jewish stock but I have never got too carried away by it. Charles II was my ancestor but I certainly don't see myself as being jewish. Here is a more recent pdf trying to show how the rulers of Iran are supposedly jewish.

I am also aware that the use of the name "Dan" in place names in Europe ties in with the theory that the Tribe of Dan migrated en masse to Europe and settled all over the place, e.g., in Danmark (Denmark). There may be something in it. Who knows. It was a theory that was certainly promoted by the British Israelite Society. British Israelism - Wikipedia

Finally, if blood lines are important, what do you take away from the fact that the Rothschild family view themselves as being descendents of Nimrod?
 

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Candice

Jedi
Candice, I agree with all that you say. You are your own person and should not feel guilty for what some of your ancestors may have done. I have ancestors who probably did monstous things as well but then others who were more saintly.
Yes, I agree, I see this more clearly now. It’s not really that I feel guilty, it was more childhood embassment that my family was so weird. It’s not like one can divulge such things to friends or to anyone really. Then when I read the transcripts and I read that these groups were associated with STS or negative hidden forces I felt ashamed through association. Which if I look at that objectively I was being silly, I am my own person on my own journey.

I will add that my father says the Rosicrucians of the modern day variety have lost the plot. That they’re pretty much role playing and have somehow lost whatever “hidden” knowledge they proclaimed to have. He says the Templar’s on the other hand are different but it’s only the top dudes in France who know what’s up. He met some when he attended a ceremony with my grandmother. But I wouldn’t put too much stock in anything he says as I feel he may have lost the plot himself.

Anyways I agree with Laura that the importance lies in the Work of “simple & karmic understandings”. This is where I’ve found the most profound insights and growth that actually have tangible outcomes that I can see in reality.
 

OutSky

Jedi
As much I feel the urge upon me at this moment in our human world, nevertheless I think we can trust a brief look into these clues —Percy, Altom Towers, …— given by our lovely and sagacious sto 6D beings, the Cassiopaeans. I mean, how these clues do impact our current moment, and more important, the Work? I would say they do largely regarding the many connections indicated by the C’s such as Canaries, Oak Island, Augustine Monks, St. Albans, the ‘eternal flames’ and others. They are so many ones that I’ve just picked the next quote —and below why— as one whose convergence can be easy noticed in relation to the current state of the world encircling us.

Session 18 July 2015

A: Templars are a setup, insofar as persecution is concerned. Remember your "historical records" can be distorted, in order to throw off future inquiries, such as your own.
Q: I know that. I have already figured that one out! But, it seems that no one else has made this connection. I mean, the bloodlines that converge in the Percys and the Mortimers are incredible!
A: You should know that these bloodlines become parasitically infected, harassed and tinkered with whenever a quantum leap of awareness is imminent.
Q: Whenever a quantum leap...
A: Such as "now."
…..

A: ……Here is something for you to digest: Why is it that your scientists have overlooked the obvious when they insist that alien beings cannot travel to earth from a distant system???
Q: And what is this obvious thing?
A: Even if speed of light travel, or "faster," were not possible, and it is, of course, there is no reason why an alien race could not construct a space "ark," living for many generations on it. They could travel great distances through time and space, looking for a suitable world for conquest. Upon finding such, they could then install this ark in a distant orbit, build bases upon various solid planes in that solar system, and proceed to patiently manipulate the chosen civilizations to develop a suitable technological infrastructure. And then, after the instituting of a long, slow, and grand mind programming project, simply step in and take it over once the situation was suitable.
(L) So... Are you suggesting that, for example, if there are people who get infectious diseases that cause atherosclerosis, heart disease, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, or any of these so-called autoimmune diseases, that these diseases are not genetically caused as they have been saying for the last 50 or 60 years, but that perhaps they were designed for people who carry certain genetic markers in their DNA, which then get labeled as the causative gene? Is that what we're getting at here?
A: Very close indeed. There is also the "tinkering" that can take place.
Q: (L) So in our particular reality and time and place, the so-called "Great Work", the alchemical self-transformation, must necessarily include work on diet and health issues and a vast increase in knowledge in those areas in order to cancel out the effects of transmarginal inhibition?
A: Yes
……

(Pierre) There seems to be something else. The way they refer to parasites is that they are preventing not only the gaining of knowledge and growth of awareness, but also this quantum leap. Maybe if you have parasites, you can still increase your knowledge and awareness, but you'll reach a sort of glass ceiling that prevents you from graduating.
A: Yes
Q: (L) What's the tinkering there?
A: The parasites act as receivers.
Q: (Pierre) Yeah. The parasites act as receivers. So when you are full of parasites, you are more under the influence of bad waves, or waves sent by bad entities. You're more susceptible to those messages. There's a bad influence on you beyond the parasites.
A: Getting free of parasitic microorganisms is one of the first orders of business for transformation.
Q: (Galatea) Would you say that the closer somebody gets to graduating, the worse things get? Like they start to feel worse?
A: In many cases, yes.
Q: (L) If you get too smart, then something happens. I wonder if they even have something designed into the system that makes that happen?
A: Yes
Q: (Pierre) They have a back door.
(Perceval) When they said that the parasites act as receivers, receivers of what?
A: Waves of information.
Q: (Perceval) The reference to bloodlines becoming parasitically infected, does that refer to certain bloodlines that were particularly targeted for infestation?
A: Yes
…….

(L) Okay, how is the tinkering done?
A: Most often via viruses.
Q: (L) Is the campaign to vaccinate everyone part of this project to make sure that everybody gets the viruses that are needed to stop them from progressing?
A: Yes

Also can be wondered that "viruses" bridge as ethereal elements. But, though we find above some junction for our Quest, however we are, I suppose, enough aware at this point of the nefarious manipulation of our DNA —such as vaccines. So my point is, the C’s also in this quotation are taking the opportunity to draw attention to the "Ark stuff".

And from what I have seen till here via readings, dreams, meditation… —which some have been posted in the forum— that "stuff" brings profound implications on the structure of the universe concerning densities, and things like: "Where are we? To where we will go?" —in terms of essence and species. I mean this is information that is more than only to tell that we came from Orion and will return to there. That is to say, an increase of light resulted of knowledge acquired from "inner archeology." That is, the history tracked by the man-soul around the Dawn of the creation.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
As much I feel the urge upon me at this moment in our human world, nevertheless I think we can trust a brief look into these clues —Percy, Altom Towers, …— given by our lovely and sagacious sto 6D beings, the Cassiopaeans. I mean, how these clues do impact our current moment, and more important, the Work? I would say they do largely regarding the many connections indicated by the C’s such as Canaries, Oak Island, Augustine Monks, St. Albans, the ‘eternal flames’ and others. They are so many ones that I’ve just picked the next quote —and below why— as one whose convergence can be easy noticed in relation to the current state of the world encircling us.



Also can be wondered that "viruses" bridge as ethereal elements. But, though we find above some junction for our Quest, however we are, I suppose, enough aware at this point of the nefarious manipulation of our DNA —such as vaccines. So my point is, the C’s also in this quotation are taking the opportunity to draw attention to the "Ark stuff".

And from what I have seen till here via readings, dreams, meditation… —which some have been posted in the forum— that "stuff" brings profound implications on the structure of the universe concerning densities, and things like: "Where are we? To where we will go?" —in terms of essence and species. I mean this is information that is more than only to tell that we came from Orion and will return to there. That is to say, an increase of light resulted of knowledge acquired from "inner archeology." That is, the history tracked by the man-soul around the Dawn of the creation.
Outsky: I agree with you. One of the reasons I am re-reading the C's material is to try and bring all the points they have made over the years together and form a big picture. You can see how many points, though on the surface seemingly disparate, actually link together.

The C's also mentioned Morris Jessup's book 'The Case for the UFO' in which there are numerous references to a Great Ark spaceship, which could be the same one.
 
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