Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

First off, I want to apologize for not having rechecked whether the BBC YT-video was still active. I simply assumed it should be since its front image still shows up in Reply #593.

Many thanks then, voyageur, for your thorough breakdown of what was on offer in this documentary. It finely concurs with my memory about the BBC version I saw on YouTube when it was still available, and it also follows neatly the article of Mike Rudin you linked to.

So, a year later and really no new facts or perspectives presented. Just a rehash of old materials. What a pity. :mad:
 
Source: http://nltimes.nl/2017/05/16/russian-ukrainian-authorities-making-mh17-investigation-difficult-prosecutors

Russian, Ukrainian authorities making MH17 investigation "difficult": Prosecutors

By Janene Pieters on May 16, 2017 - 08:31

The investigation into the MH17 disaster is in a difficult phase and far from over, the Public Prosecutor wrote in a digital magazine meant to keep the victims' relatives informed about what is happening in the MH17 file. The investigators are having trouble getting data from the Ukrainian secret service and cooperation with Russia remains difficult, the Prosecutor wrote on Monday, RTL Nieuws reports [in Dutch].

The investigation is now in its "most difficult phase", the Prosecutor wrote. "Booking progress at this stage is much more difficult."

One problem is that not enough witnesses responded to a call to report in December. The call was made in the Ukraine and potential witnesses were offered lowered sentences if they came forward. There were reactions, "but not enough", according to the magazine.

The investigators are also still going trough a massive amount of phone data. "This will still take much time and capacity in the coming months. It involves millions of historical print data and thousands of recorded phone calls." On this front the investigation team is also in the midst of a "complex legal procedure" with the Ukraine. The Ukrainian secret service recorded many phone calls and collected a large amount of phone data in the days running up to the MH17 disaster. But the data is covered by Ukrainian state security and is not part of the MH17 investigation. Some of that data is released in the legal procedure. This means that investigators are still receiving new information, almost three years after the disaster.

Cooperation with Russia is also troublesome, the Prosecutor wrote. In October 2014 the Prosecutor requested radar images from Russia. Two years later the Russians handed over a file. But the radar images were on Russian software and no manual was included. "A lot of time was lost" translating the software and learning how to use it, according to the Prosecutor. Another legal request was submitted to Russia asking that the radar images be handed over in a standard format. The Prosecutor also submitted a request to Russia for data from another radar station, but no response was received yet.

Finally the Prosecutor revealed that the investigation team received a mysterious email for someone calling himself "Volf" in February of this year. Volf wrote that the Dutch investigation is not objective and that he has important information. He threatened to send a file to all relatives. "It involved some images, audio files and a 97-page 'report' in the Russian language. The report, which contained 82 photos, described alternative scenarios", according to the magazine. According to the Prosecutor, all of Volf's information has been investigated and is either already known or irrelevant. Research revealed that Volf sent his messages from a mobile network in Russia and that there are no indications that he actually approached relatives. The MH17 investigation not being objective is an accusation often heard from Russia.

On 17 July 2014 Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Eastern Ukraine. All 298 people on board were killed. So far investigations revealed that the plane was shot down by a BUK missile system from a field controlled by pro-Russian separatists. The missile system was moved from Russia to the Ukrainian field and then back again after the passenger plane was shot down. A number of victims' relatives recently announced that they are considering suing the Ukraine for not closing its airspace while it was clearly dangerous, as the Dutch Safety Board concluded.
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Additional sources:

https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-crash/@99019/second-online/ [Second online magazine about the MH17 criminal investigation - press announcement May 15, 2017]

https://english.mh17magazine.nl/investigationmh17/2017/01/index
 
Palinurus said:
First off, I want to apologize for not having rechecked whether the BBC YT-video was still active. I simply assumed it should be since its front image still shows up in Reply #593.

Many thanks then, voyageur, for your thorough breakdown of what was on offer in this documentary. It finely concurs with my memory about the BBC version I saw on YouTube when it was still available, and it also follows neatly the article of Mike Rudin you linked to.

So, a year later and really no new facts or perspectives presented. Just a rehash of old materials. What a pity. :mad:
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No need to apologize, the video may still be out there or it may appear again. I probably missed a few points along they way; though their was something on Crimea (a negative connotation) - and almost turned the darn program off as it followed such predictable patterns that they know work, cause if a person did not know anything about the subject, a show like that will convince many. So the message to them is 'no need to look at anything else' as their trigger words discourage it.

So yes, "a rehash of old material" - a pity indeed (somewhat expected).
 
Wow! Someone sent a bunch of SBU's (Security Service of Ukraine) documents (photocopies) to a newspaper and the newspaper shared it with Russian Federal Investigation Agency (if I understand it correctly):

(«top secret») documents of the Security Service of Ukraine. At the disposal of the newspaper “Sovershenno sekretno” were copies of secret documents of the Security Service of Ukraine on the conduct of a special operation to destroy the evidence of mass murder in the sky over the Donbass on July 17, 2014. The newspaper “Sovershenno sekretno” initiates an investigation “We uncover a secret of Boeing MH17 wreckage”. The operation of the Security Service of Ukraine “Clearing”. Part 1.

"The original оf the text: «Уничтожить факты проведения специальной операции»

- «To carry out special measures to destroy the facts of a special operation».

- «To carry out effective preventive measures among witnesses of special operations on July 17, 2014»

- «Identify and detain witnesses of the civil aircraft explosion».

- «To regroup the servicemen who discharged of their official duties in the territory of the village Grabovo, Donetsk region».

- «As part of a special operation to destroy all materials that indicate the presence of combat aircraft having carried out combat missions in the specified area on July 17, 2014»

SOURCE OF PHOTOCOPIES

To distrust own eyes - this was an unconscious desire when we first saw photocopies of these documents. Most of them, as judged by the holes of paper punch, were extracted from some folders and photographed. Orders, encrypted telegrams, plans and decrees are written on the official trident-crowned letterhead of "Служба Безпеки Украiни”, that is the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), as well as on ordinary sheets of A4. Signatures, resolutions, seals. The secret bureaucracy of the Ukrainian "безпеки" have fallen into our hands which is the TNT equivalent explosion of the international scandal that should bring the President of Ukraine Poroshenko and his generals to the dock of the tribunal at the Hague as war criminals.

The person who gave us these documents always appeared out of nowhere and disappeared into nowhere. During our several meetings in the course of a month he changed about five phone SIM cards and changed his email address three times. When asked why he turned to us, he replied that he knows and respects us as journalists of the newspaper "Sovershenno sekretno". When asked who he is and how he managed to get the secret documents of the SBU, he answered something like this: "This is an intermediate result of the long hard work. In Ukraine I have some mates who are sick and tired of setting them up and walking all over them. These men are two-faced, on the one hand they want these bastards get deserts, on the other hand, they want a small safety net - they offer to buy documents out." At the mention of money we certainly became sad. The possibilities of our editorial office and our partner Agency for Federal Investigations FLB.ru are rather modest. "Believe me, I personally just want the SBU’s bastards get deserts."

Copies of the documents spoke for themselves. Later we gave them for examination to one of the old stager of the Lubyanka and he noted that they had been drawn up according to all the rules of records management maid as far back as the KGB of the USSR, whose school was completed by many employees of the security service of Ukraine. Of course the authenticity of these documents should be checked not by journalists or even security officials-old stagers; this is a business for investigators who must study not the photocopies but the originals of orders and decrees completely without deletions made in our case apparently for operative purposes and for security reasons. And it is important for us that finally three years after the plane crash the names of real witnesses and probably real executors of this shooting up begin to emerge. Therefore today you have the opportunity to read and see copies of 4 completely criminal orders of the Security Service of Ukraine.

And that's why - there is no other way out - the newspaper "Sovershenno sekretno" announces a public investigation "“We uncover a secret of Boeing MH17 wreckage ". Only with your help we can get other criminal orders, encrypted telegrams and decrees. The international commission for investigation of the Malaysian Boeing 777 crash in the Netherlands does not want to work, distorts and classifies the investigation results, let's all together help to know or at least get closer to the truth. The truth is about how 298 people died.

Only these four photocopies allow us to draw three preliminary crushing conclusions. The first conclusion is: the new Kiev authorities is responsible for the shooting up of the Malaysian Boeing 777 MH17 flight – President Poroshenko and his generals hide the truth and lie for 3 years already. The second conclusion is: Ukraine's military aviation is involved in this resonant plane crash. The third conclusion is: in order to cover the traces of a monstrous crime, from the end of July 2014 the SBU conducted special measures to destroy the facts of the special operation and all materials that indicate the presence of combat aircraft having carried out combat missions on July 17, 2014».

Dozens of people were involved in this special operation of downing the aircraft and the subsequent "clearing", there were hundreds of unwitting witnesses from military personnel of the Ukrainian army. We hope that sooner or later they will speak.

In the meantime we expect that within the next month or one and a half we will be able to obtain other orders from the depths of the Ukrainian "безпеки" and the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense with your help, which will point to the real culprit of the MH17 flight wreckage in the air.

SPECIAL OPERATION OF THE SBU FOR LIQUIDATION OF EVIDENCE

We placed secret documents of the SBU, in which orders are given to conduct a special operation to destroy the evidence of a Boeing air crash, in chronological order. Photocopies of originals are accompanied by a translation into Russian. According to the mention in one of the orders, the start of the operation "clearing" was kicked three days after the shooting up of the aircraft - July 20, 2014. It was on this day when the first deputy head of the SBU Colonel General V.S. Gritsak approved the "Plan for the main organizational, counterintelligence and special investigation measures of the DKR SBU dated 20.07.2014 No. 1 / 1-837." (DKR is counterintelligence department of the SBU. We do not have this Gritsak’s plan yet, but hope that we will have it – FLB
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4 documents follow, with English translation
https://flb.ru/info/63097.html
 
Wow indeed ! Thanks for finding and sharing this potentially explosive material PoB. :thup: I'm very curious as to whether or how any news outlet in the West will report this.

I've saved the webpage of FLB on my computer and found that the copies of the four incriminating documents are images which didn't come through, but at least I've got the translations in full.
 
Possibility of Being said:
Wow! Someone sent a bunch of SBU's (Security Service of Ukraine) documents (photocopies) to a newspaper and the newspaper shared it with Russian Federal Investigation Agency (if I understand it correctly):

(«top secret») documents of the Security Service of Ukraine. At the disposal of the newspaper “Sovershenno sekretno” were copies of secret documents of the Security Service of Ukraine on the conduct of a special operation to destroy the evidence of mass murder in the sky over the Donbass on July 17, 2014. The newspaper “Sovershenno sekretno” initiates an investigation “We uncover a secret of Boeing MH17 wreckage”. The operation of the Security Service of Ukraine “Clearing”. Part 1.

"The original оf the text: «Уничтожить факты проведения специальной операции»

- «To carry out special measures to destroy the facts of a special operation».

- «To carry out effective preventive measures among witnesses of special operations on July 17, 2014»

- «Identify and detain witnesses of the civil aircraft explosion».

- «To regroup the servicemen who discharged of their official duties in the territory of the village Grabovo, Donetsk region».

- «As part of a special operation to destroy all materials that indicate the presence of combat aircraft having carried out combat missions in the specified area on July 17, 2014»

SOURCE OF PHOTOCOPIES
[...] [... ] [... ]
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4 documents follow, with English translation
https://flb.ru/info/63097.html
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Wow! Isn't even the half of it - the documents are "a bomb shell" in Poroshenko's lap! It's really explosive evidence.

"Katsap" - the witness who has evidence of law violation by the Ukrainian army and aviation, namely the shooting up of the civilian aircraft."
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I wonder, if Katsap (and hopefully his Family) are under Russian protection for their own safety?

The information also gives a better understanding of the type of treatment that Dutch journalist Michel Spekkers and his colleague Stefan Beck were subjected to, when they arrived back in the Netherlands from Ukraine last January.

Also found this bit of information interesting and that John Brennan has close ties with Kolomoisky. It brings to mind, the Millions of dollars that were allocated to the Ukrainian Government by the U.S. since Poroshenko was installed as President (with no improvement in the economy and health services it was earmarked for) with the thought, a good portion of the funds were probably used to maintain this cover up? Trump just stripped 85% of the funding for Ukraine, so Poroshenko doesn't have a honey-pot to play with any more.

The Ukrainian Independent News Agency (UNIAN) was one of the first mass media reported the information about the accident. It should be noted that the owner of UNIAN the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky financed the flight service of Dnepropetrovsk which “guided” Boeing until the last second of the flight. The establishment of Kolomoisky's control over all flight services in southeastern Ukraine began to occur after the arrival in Kiev in April 2014 of CIA director John Brennan. A month before the tragedy there was a seizure of "Ukr Avia Ru", a criminal case was opened against the chief dispatcher of Ukraine Yury Chernichenko. Poroshenko elected as president signs an order to dismiss Chernichenko the next day.
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On Monday, the Russian newspaper Sovershenno Sekretno ("Top Secret") published copies of secret documents allegedly proving that Ukrainian security services hid and destroyed evidence of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in 2014.

Could Ukraine Have Destroyed Evidence of Its Responsibility for MH17 Crash?
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201705241053929523-ukraine-mh17-documents/

The airliner crashed in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donbass on July 17, 2014, while en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. All 298 passengers and the crew members aboard the aircraft died in the incident.

According to the newspaper, the copies were obtained from an unnamed source. The newspaper also said that it cannot confirm or disprove the authenticity of the documents. The report claims that the original document was issued by the Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) on April 20, 2014, three days after the crash.

The document was entitled the "Plan of counterintelligence and operational search measures of the SSU Counterintelligence Department." The measures laid out in this plan were allegedly aimed to hide evidence proving the Ukrainian military’s responsibility for the crash.

In an interview with Radio Sputnik, Russian political analyst Vladimir Kornilov noted that even without these documents the activities of the Ukrainian Security Service after the crash were "suspicious."

I cannot confirm the authenticity of the documents, but the SSU really conducted operations after the incident and its activities were suspicious. For example, there were a lot of absurd versions of the crush distributed in the first hours after the tragedy by the SSU and then-director Valentin Nalivaychenko. All those versions may have been used as a pretext for some special operations," Kornilov said.

The analyst also pointed to the fact that it is still unknown what happened to the air traffic controllers who were tracking the flight and the recordings of air traffic surveillance over Ukraine on the day of the crash.

"Since this evidence is absent, we can assume that this absence is the result of some special operations by Ukrainian security and intelligence agencies, including the SSU," Kornilov suggested.

In particular, the documents mention a person who allegedly witnessed the MH17 crash.

"He has evidence of a violation of law by the Ukrainian army and aviation, which was shooting down a civilian passenger aircraft on July 17, 2014," one of the copies read.

According to another document dated July 24, 2014, several witnesses of the crash were detained by the SSU department near Lugansk.

Moreover, the documents claim that one serviceman made a video recording of the incident. The source told the newspaper later that the serviceman was shot dead by a sniper outside the conflict zone in Donbass.

One of the documents obtained by the newspaper is a copy of an order allegedly signed by then SSU first deputy head Vasily Gritsak on July 24, 2014. According to the report, the document ordered "obtaining information [on the incident] from locals, military personnel and others" and "taking efficient preemptive measures."

Another document by the SSU allegedly ordered destroying "any evidence of a violation of law by personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces," including "any evidence of the presence of combat aircraft and their activities in the area on July 17, 2014."

Further commenting on the report, Kornilov noted that there are other reasons to suggest that the Ukrainian government may be concealing important facts concerning the crash.

"Dutch investigators asked Ukraine for data from its flight control radars, but Kiev has not provided any information. There is a reasonable question: what are Ukrainian intelligence agencies, the military and the government hiding? What do they fear? For several weeks, investigators could not get access to the crash site because the Ukrainian military was shelling any vehicles moving to the area. I guess the answer is clear," Kornilov concluded.

The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the MH17 airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which was brought from Russia and consequently returned there. However, Russia's Almaz-Antey defense company, which produces the missile system, rejected the findings in the probe, saying that three simulations showed that the missile was launched from an area controlled by Ukraine's army at the time of the downing.


A Russian newspaper obtained copies of secret documents of the Security Bureau of Ukraine (SBU) about special operations to destroy evidence of mass murder in the sky over the Donbass on July 17, 2014. The Sovershenno Secretno newspaper (translates as “Top Secret”) conducts an investigation into the downing of the Malaysian passenger Boeing over Ukraine.
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The latest and breaking from Ukraine New secret documents hold Ukraine responsible for MH17 plane crash (Video)
http://en.reseauinternational.net/the-latest-and-breaking-from-ukraine-new-secret-documents-hold-ukraine-responsible-for-mh17-plane-crash/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UropuYdxbLM (1:12 min.)

The copies of the documents that the newspaper obtained – orders, coded telegrams and plans – were written on official letterheads of the Ukrainian Security Service. According to the newspaper, Ukrainian President Poroshenko and his generals should be put on trial in The Hague as war criminals.


Truly sensational new document leak confirms Kiev's direct responsibility of shooting down the Malesian Airlines flight MH17 in Donbass on 17.7.2014. Ukrainian top secret official documents shows us that the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) was ordered to hide all evidence from the Ukrainian responsibility and especially everything which could proove Ukrainian air forces involvement in executed secret state terrorism operation.
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Leaked Documents: Ukraine Air Forces shot down MH17 - confirms conspiracy and guilt (Donbass Defense Journal) (RT video)
https://dnidefence.com/en/posts/leaked-documents-ukrainian-air-forces-shot-down-mh17-confirms-conspiracy-and-guilt/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ0pEFTqE4I (3:24 min.)
 
Thank you once again, angelburst29, for gathering this additional information. :clap:

Having slept over it, I was reminded of the detective work of private detective Josef Resch lastly mentioned in Reply #770 and #771 where --with the benefit of hindsight and the help of this new info-- he seemed to hint in a similar direction during a radio interview/conversation in German, held two months before his house was raided and his materials confiscated. My short summation of it bears repeating:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic said:
It's a pity there's not much of detailed substance to report because the detective has signed a contract not to reveal anything to anyone. It appears there have been two interconnected investigations carried out by him, the known one --costing 30 million-- about what (really) happened aka who did it, and the second one --for another 17 million-- to find a new 'Snowdon'-like source to reveal who has been busy hiding the facts of the case. Both investigations are claimed to have been successfully and reliably concluded, written statements have been recorded and were deposited at a notary's office in May. The private detective has been payed off but has stopped working altogether now (gone in retirement) because of the workload and the many death threats he received especially in connection with the MH17 assignments. According to his estimate the chance that ever will be revealed to the general public who did it and who is hiding the facts (probably the same culprit) is about fifty-fifty and he warned that knowing the real facts will cause the next of kin of the victims and the public at large even more grief and pain than already has been inflicted. He supposed that in all likelihood this whole MH17 affair will be handled and concluded secretly without knowledge of anyone not directly involved.
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Some Russian media reported on the leak, in most cases briefly:

Lenta: https://lenta.ru/news/2017/05/22/mh17/
Moscow 360TV: http://360tv.ru/news/smi-opublikovali-prikaz-sbu-ob-unichtozhenii-ulik-sbitogo-malazijskogo-boeing-112441
RIA/ Vista News: https://vistanews.ru/incident/144374
Rambler: https://news.rambler.ru/video/36941803-opublikovany-kopii-prikazov-sbu-ob-ulikah-gibeli-boinga/
TVC: http://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/113712
Politics Today: https://polit.info/339724-prinuzhdenie-k-zabveniyu-kak-sbu-unichtozhala-uliki-krusheniya-malaiziiskogo-boeing

From polit.info, G-transl:
All orders are signed by surnames. Witnesses of shooting civil aircraft in the documents are impersonal. One of them, who shot several shots on his Iphone 4, after a conversation with the SBU would find his death from a sniper bullet in an area in which there are no fights. All his belongings from the part would be taken by the SBU.

Informant in the publication still hopes to find the pictures from the mobile phone of an eyewitness. However, even then, the experts do not believe that they will prove the fault of Ukraine, on the basis of which the international court will pronounce the verdict.

"The situation with the tragedy of MH17 flight, I think, will never be revealed," independent analyst Alexander Asafov noted in an interview with IA "Politika Segodnya". - All the main clues were destroyed in the first week after the crash. Ukraine got rid of them both with artillery fire, and with such methods [as presented in the docs]. None of the commissions that came and worked or pretended working could not prove anything. The entire international investigation is based on circumstantial evidence."

The outgoing numbers of the published orders of the SBU, according to Asafov, will not give an opportunity to get originals to the courts:

"They are obliged to provide them, but they will reply that there are no documents, because they are not involved in a catastrophe. They will advise you to request papers in Moscow or Donetsk. They themselves may not have access to them. In the central building of the Security Service in Kiev, the fourth floor until recently was closed to the SBU. There were American instructors there. And they could quite follow that these documents did not remain, so that they would not come back in 50 years or in 100 years. Unfortunately, we will not know the truth. There will be convincing versions, the most reliable ones. But the guilty parties on the Ukrainian side will not be able to be established. "
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Thanks to you too, PoB. :cool2:

I've tried to find something in my neck of the woods but have not been successful yet. Will keep looking of course.
 
From Pravdareport (May 22, 2017): New secret documents hold Ukraine responsible for MH17 plane crash

<snip>

Pravda.Ru asked an expert opinion on the subject from editor-in-chief of the Top Secret newspaper, Sergei Sokolov.

"Can you assert that the information that your newspaper has obtained is genuine and trustworthy?"

"We have had a number of meetings with the source of this information. We additionally checked the papers with the help of veterans of special services, who know all about the departmental bureaucracy. It looks very much like in Russia, because the SBU is an offspring of the USSR's KGB. The documents that we have are arranged in a way as they should be arranged at the security department. Plus, the source told us that he received the documents from the depths of the SBU.

"The people who handed the documents to that person dislike the Ukrainian government, and we have to buy those documents. All circumstances of the story convince us that the documents are authentic. Of course, Russia's Investigative Committee will have to look into all this."

"What about the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the Council of Europe? Do you intend to submit these documents to international organizations?"

"I do not believe that they can do anything, because, as we could see, international organizations believe in the story about the Russian Buk missile complex that downed the Boeing. They do not want to listen to what Russia has to say on the subject, they are blind."

"Do you plan to contact Malaysian and Dutch sides? These countries are highly interested in the investigation."

"Of course, but it is only the families of the victims who are interested in learning the truth about what happened. Everyone else wants to blame Russia for everything. We are sending the documents to Russia's Investigative Committee in the first place.
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Read article on the Russian version of Pravda.Ru

EDIT -- forgot to mention an article in the French language by Christelle Néant in two separate sources (the second one was already mentioned by angelburst29 in the English version)

http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/international/article/l-ukraine-va-t-elle-devoir-faire-193462

https://dnipress.com/fr/posts/l-ukraine-va-t-elle-devoir-faire-face-a-un-mh17-leaks-trois-ans-apres-le-crash-de-lavion-dans-le-donbass/
 
SOTT now carries the Sputnik version:

https://www.sott.net/article/352018-New-documents-revealed-Could-Ukraine-have-destroyed-evidence-of-its-responsibility-for-MH17-crash
 
Palinurus said:
SOTT now carries the Sputnik version:

https://www.sott.net/article/352018-New-documents-revealed-Could-Ukraine-have-destroyed-evidence-of-its-responsibility-for-MH17-crash
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I'll repost my comment appended to the above article here:

Investigators should be cautious about documents that surface so mysteriously as a purported paper trail of Kiev's official wrongdoing in the wake of the shooting down of MH17. Unless the provenance of these documents can be established in an impeccable manner, they should be regarded as potential forgeries intended to divert suspicions away from the actual conspirators who were responsible for this horrible war crime. Personally, I like the theory suggested by some of the early reports that Kolomoisky - perhaps at the direction of the CIA - ordered a Ukrainian fighter pilot to shoot down the airplane carrying Vladimir Putin, but the Ukrainian military missed the Russian president's airplane, and shot down MH17 instead.

If that is what actually happened, that theory would tend to explain much of the ensuing intrigue and obfuscation generated in the aftermath of the MH17 tragedy. Russia, of course, has completely ignored the possibility that any such attempt was made by the CIA and/or Ukraine or the Chabad-Lubovitch Jewish Talmudic extremist oligarch Kolomoisky to assassinate Putin, probably because it would need very convincing proof to make such a serious accusation, but it has no such proof. However, over these intervening three years, Kolomoisky has withdrawn from his position as governor of Dniepropetrovsk, extracted all of his capital from his Ukrainian bank, which was once the largest in that country, and retreated into a relative obscurity in the US, or Canada, almost certainly at the direction and under the protection of the CIA, under John Brennan.
 
Thank you, griffin, for taking the trouble to re-post your comment on SOTT in here as well.

Although your comment has certainly merit over there, I'm inclined to say that it's a bit superfluous over here since this whole thread shows ample evidence of due suspicion and diligent consideration toward any source of whatever evidence on this dreadful matter. We're still in the process of validating this latest piece of possible evidence and searching for more sources if and when available.

You're welcome to add anything of substance would you have it now or happen to come across it in the upcoming days... ;)

By the way, the theory of hitting the wrong plane has been discussed here previously fairly early on if I remember correctly.

After checking, it appears to have been mentioned in Reply #15 for the first time (on page 2 of this thread).
 
griffin said:
Palinurus said:
SOTT now carries the Sputnik version:

https://www.sott.net/article/352018-New-documents-revealed-Could-Ukraine-have-destroyed-evidence-of-its-responsibility-for-MH17-crash
Click to expand...

I'll repost my comment appended to the above article here:

Investigators should be cautious about documents that surface so mysteriously as a purported paper trail of Kiev's official wrongdoing in the wake of the shooting down of MH17. Unless the provenance of these documents can be established in an impeccable manner, they should be regarded as potential forgeries intended to divert suspicions away from the actual conspirators who were responsible for this horrible war crime.
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I actually would not be surprised if Ukraine officials tried to cover up any evidence that would point the finger at them. Dutch involvement (or rather lack thereof) was suspicious as well: they sent police officers with no experience or no knowledge of how to research the site or retrieve objects. Many pieces are still at the site and not retrieved for the investigation.

In the very beginning, when the 'investigation' was ongoing, there were some areas that were (or so they say) not closed off. A Dutch MSM outlet journalist (Jeroen Akkermans) goes to that area and 'finds' 10-15 fragments and takes it with him and offers it to investigators. Investigators then said that they could be rocket-pieces of the BUK. That was then spread all over the news: "It's likely a BUK!" It's quite mind-boggling that this is how they professionally investigate. Of course, what likely happened is that those pieces were 'offered to him'.

Also interesting is that Akkermans didn't receive the same treatment as the two Dutch journalists who recently got back from Ukraine with real material the investigators never touched or the Dutch government cared to retrieve (video material etc. were taken from those journalists). The JIT report was out, and they fixed the conclusion they wanted: Russia is the bad guy.

So, seeing how the Netherlands went about it all, I would suspect that Ukraine/CIA/SSU (those who are responsible) also made efforts to 'silence the truth', and that the recent documents contain information that could be close to the truth.

It is interesting what Kornilov said (as can be read in the above article posted by Palinurus):

"I cannot confirm the authenticity of the documents, but the SSU really conducted operations after the incident and its activities were suspicious. For example, there were a lot of absurd versions of the crash distributed in the first hours after the tragedy by the SSU and then-director Valentin Nalivaychenko. All those versions may have been used as a pretext for some special operations," Kornilov said.

griffin said:
Personally, I like the theory suggested by some of the early reports that Kolomoisky - perhaps at the direction of the CIA - ordered a Ukrainian fighter pilot to shoot down the airplane carrying Vladimir Putin, but the Ukrainian military missed the Russian president's airplane, and shot down MH17 instead.
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I don't think Putin would even fly over that area. See this RT article, where it says:

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s report that was the first and the only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at the same time.

As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.

“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.

President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.
Click to expand...

What likely happened is that they shot down the passenger aircraft (first by a jet that was aiming at the cockpit, with a possible bomb on the plane that was detonated either before or after the jet-attack) in order to further demonize Putin/Russia. This is how evil they are. See these SOTT articles by Joe that explain it in more detail:

MH17 Who Dunnit? Western Media Silent on the Evidence
Preliminary report on the crash of flight MH17 full of holes, just like the plane
One year later: All evidence still suggests MH17 shot down by a jet fighter
https://www.sott.net/article/304484-Closing-the-BUK-on-MH17-Dutch-final-report-is-clearly-biased

The following SOTT article by Niall further goes into the possibility of a bomb on the plane: Asymmetric Warfare: MH17 False-Flag Terror and the 'War' on Gaza

Considering all the data, I don't think they made a mistake and shot the wrong plane, or even accidentally shot a passenger aircraft. Also consider that MH17 plane deviated from its course on the orders of Ukrainian ATC, which indicates that it was planned beforehand. My 2 cents.
 
Thanks Oxajil for going the extra mile by providing this elaborate answer. It's a nice summation of where we stand at the moment, I think. Kudos to you. :cool2:
 
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