Alchemy

Joe said:
Hi Harrison, I can't comment too much on the titles you suggest, but if you haven't read it yet, Laura's "Secret History of the World" would be a good all rounder. Other than that, if you haven't read them, you can also check out:

The True Identity of Fulcanelli and The Da Vinci Code

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/fulcanelli_da_vinci_code.htm

and

The Grail Quest and The Destiny of Man: Part V-c: The Fulcanelli Phenomenon

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/grail_5e.htm

We currently have one of Patrick Riviere's books in the process of being translated, simply titled: "Fulcanelli". Should be available this spring.

I'll ask Laura to chime in if she has any other suggestions

Joe
The Da Vinci Code is such a clever romp, but it embodies no wisdom, betrays a compete and absolute lack of understanding of the priciples of Christianity or of the meaning of Jesus' life. Whether you believe that he lived as a real person in history, or was the product of the press, his purpose in illustrating to humans that they are spiritual, not physical, is all this is important in his story. He knew that physical life on Earth was not the life to live, and he went through personal crusifixion to prove it to mankind. He never encouraged reproduction, and the idea that he would have done all this, and then said, "Oh yeah, I think we should go ahead and bring another being back into this world" is simply to be ignorant of what he was, what he is, of the value of his life. Da Vinci Code is pure pornography. I has no social value.

Tim
 
Tim, Joe was not referring to the book The Da Vinci Code, but to an article with the title "The True Identity of Fulcanelli and The Da Vinci Code".
 
Axel_Dunor said:
timothykey said:
he went through personal crusifixion to prove it to mankind.
That's what official history says.
Am not sure what is meant by "official history". It is the same story told in TAROT as well, IMHO. Jesus is not named as a figure, but the progression is the same, is it not? Please excuse me if it takes a while to find common ground here. TAROT has been a love of mine for many years. How this group interprets it may be quite different, I understand.

tim
 
Hi

May be you could be interested to know a blog of mine about the illustrator of Fulcanelli's works, whose name is Julien Champagne:

http://archerjulienchampagne.com

Archer
 
hi
maybe "The Hermetic Tradition: Symbols and Teachings of the Royal Art"
by Julius Evola ?
 
MKRNHR said:
hi
maybe "The Hermetic Tradition: Symbols and Teachings of the Royal Art"
by Julius Evola?
While I personally like the above book you mention, and have read and studied it several times, the problem with the author, Julius Evola, is that he is in my understanding a full blown "Fascist." This fact, is bound to influence and secretly interpenetrate his ideas and perspective on the subject. The book is also pretty intellectually steep and requires a pretty thorough knowledge of Esoteric Astrology to penetrate its multi layers of Secrets and Symbols. I feel there is Gold to be mined here, but don't get your fingers dirty when picking the nuggets out of the mud.

I also feel that for all his Intellectual Understanding of the subject, which is indeed considerable, he did Not know the final transmutation process. He assembled all the parts but could not Unite them with the Activating Principle into LIFE and TRANS-MUTATION...
 
hkoehli said:
I've read "Mystery of the Cathedrals," and my local library has a copy of "Dwellings of the Philosophers." Now, not having read any other alchemical documents, these writings are pretty 'thick.' Does anyone have some "prerequisite" reading suggestions? I don't think I'll get as much out of "Dwellings" by just diving into it without being acquainted with the previous literature. Is there a reliable history of alchemical thought and writings? These are the titles I'm thinking about checking out. Are they worth while?

Eliade's "Forge and the Crucible"
Edinger's "Anatomy of the Psyche"
Marie-Louise von Franz's "Alchemy - an Introduction"
Jung's "Psychology and Alchemy"
Lyndy Abraham's "Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery"

Perhaps the Signs guys can get a reading list from Patrick Riviere? Or Laura, do you recommend these or other works?

-Harrison
It's been a while since I've started this thread and I just want to say that I've gotten around to reading a few of the books. First of all, when I read Cathedrals for the first time, I understood perhaps 4 or 5% of it. It went almost entirely over my head. Since then (2-3 years ago) I've read a lot more that has provided some context. Dabrowski's work has given me a LOT of clarity of some concepts that were previously distorted and foggy. His theory of positive disintegration is a scientific description of alchemical work on the level of human essence. His work prepared me for Jung's "Psychology and Alchemy" which is an excellent source for alchemical imagery. His notion of "individuation" is somewhat vague, and there isn't much room in his theory for OPs, "higher" centers, etc. Dabrowski's theory accounts for much more, and is clearer.

A criticism of Jung's approach to alchemy is that it is strictly psychological. I felt the same way. However, Eliade's Forge and the Crucible makes up for this flaw. His work traces alchemical concepts to their "prehistoric" counterparts (i.e. in ancient Northern European shamanism). It is an amazing little book which gives a clear picture of WHY certain symbols are used in alchemy and how they've changed. I highly recommend this book.

I have also picked up Edinger's "Anatomy of the Psyche", but have yet to read it. It is divided into sections corresponding to different functions of the work, like separatio, calcinatio, etc. and their psychological analogues. I also have Jung's final work (considered his most important) Myseterium Coniuntionis. Eliade recommends it highly (he also recommends Yates, Fulcanelli and Canseliet).

During the time reading these books I also reread Cathedrals and it was like a new book. The symbols were much clearer and after reading each section I was left with a feeling of awe and wonder. I do not yet think I am read for Dwellings (I've started it twice but haven't gotten past a hundred or so pages).

These works also make for a great introduction to Secret History. I'll keep you all updated with how the other books turn out!
 
thanks for the update hkoehli - you have a grasp on the literature that I admire, thus I can't wait to dive into some of these books.
 
I'm reading von Franz's "Alchemy" which is on your list, von Franz was a student of Jung's and much of it is merely Jungian psychology with a sense of von Franz making her conclusions fit the data. So I suppose it is much as you describe of Jung.

And your summation of Mystery of the Cathedrals is a good one. It's like opening a new book every time!
 
The good thing about Jung's book is that the instances of his data-fitting are not very numerous. For the most part he is quoting the alchemists' themselves, making connections, and presenting the symbols in a way that allows the reader to make their own connections. And it's pretty obvious when he force fits the data. Some of the things he says ONLY make sense if you kind of correct what he wrote using a more objective psychological system, like Dabrowski's. For example, for Jung the "mysterious conjunction of opposites" is strictly the conjunction of conscious and unconscious. Sure, this is one aspect; consciousness brings light to darkness and reconciles the two. But there's a lot more to it than that. It applies to metaphysics, the macrocosmic conjunction of Being and Non-being; the conjunction of common essence and individual essence; the conjunction of higher emotional and intellectual functions; the conjunction of a 3D body with a higher "body". These are just some of the possibilities that come to mind, and I'll admit I don't understand any of them. So even though Jung is limiting, as Eliade has said, his works are still extremely important just for the amount of sleuthing he did into alchemical texts.
 
The good thing about Jung's book is that the instances of his data-fitting are not very numerous. For the most part he is quoting the alchemists' themselves, making connections, and presenting the symbols in a way that allows the reader to make their own connections. And it's pretty obvious when he force fits the data. Some of the things he says ONLY make sense if you kind of correct what he wrote using a more objective psychological system, like Dabrowski's. For example, for Jung the "mysterious conjunction of opposites" is strictly the conjunction of conscious and unconscious. Sure, this is one aspect; consciousness brings light to darkness and reconciles the two. But there's a lot more to it than that. It applies to metaphysics, the macrocosmic conjunction of Being and Non-being; the conjunction of common essence and individual essence; the conjunction of higher emotional and intellectual functions; the conjunction of a 3D body with a higher "body". These are just some of the possibilities that come to mind, and I'll admit I don't understand any of them. So even though Jung is limiting, as Eliade has said, his works are still extremely important just for the amount of sleuthing he did into alchemical texts.
Just a brief comment, I hope it is not too off-topic. First, I don’t claim to know much about alchemy nor Jungian or other psychology – just a layman’s cursory familiarity. Jung has provided for me much useful information and food for thought in general, but I feel he mostly does not go far enough. Sometimes it really becomes frustrating. I have not read "Psychology and Alchemy," but I think I’ve read some excerpts from it in some other works over the last couple of decades. I did read "The Psychology of the Transference" by Jung a few times in the last ten years which is based on analyzing an alchemical document with ten alchemical illustrations and some of their accompanying texts.

This book is part of his work not meant for the layman (as opposed to the only work, his last, that he was persuaded to collaborate on with some of his close disciples / colleagues, including Marie-Louise von Franz, for the general public entitled "Man and His Symbols"). It has much information on alchemy and famous alchemists of the past. Now all of the alchemical material analyzed in "The Psychology of the Transference" is done in the context of the enormous amount of knowledge possessed by alchemical teachings and traditions about psychology – the conscious mind and the unconscious mind – in general and about the question of the "transference" in particular. For those who don’t know, the transference refers to the last stage of psychotherapy (both Jungian and Freudian) where basically the psychological problem of the patient is temporarily transferred to the therapist, followed by a final denouement.

Now, the most frustrating part of Jung’s attitude towards alchemy is that he seemingly has awe and great respect for the depth of "psychological knowledge" possessed by its practitioners, but at the same time a huge misunderstanding and under-appreciation of this same knowledge. He consistently ends up concluding that the alchemists did everything unconsciously, without conscious understanding, directed only by the unconscious mind. He also ends up declaring that the final image in the illustrations – that of the hermaphrodite – which he describes as "monstrous," "grotesque" and in similar terms (I am recounting from memory as I no longer have the book) which he says stands for the integration and reconciliation of opposites, etc. is due to the primitive and low level of development of the state of the medieval alchemists’ mind (the document being analyzed is a medieval alchemical document).

The overall Jungian conceptions are much less subjective and limited to a particular milieu than Freudian ones (Freud and his patients being part of the milieu – time and place, class, etc. – that define his psychological paradigm that he claims apply universally) but they still have their own "problems;" mainly, as I said, they don’t go far enough and also when he goes far in a certain direction, such as some deep psychological phenomena being related to "spirit" and "soul," etc. he makes all sorts of qualifications and restrictions on his implications not on the basis of being unable to positively verify / know these types of things and thus qualify their meanings, but gives me the impression that he fears for "his reputation as a scientist." This impression I’ve gotten is not categorical, in the case of synchronicity and other astounding phenomena, he gives indications that they may be related to phenomena in quantum physics and seems to qualify the implications in a way that suggests merely that "we don’t know for sure, we do not yet fully understand." But some of the qualifications and "back tracking" do raise questions for me as to if there is anything more to it, and sometimes just a lack of knowledge and proper understanding in a larger context than what he is dealing with. (There are some aspects to what I’m raising in his Foreword to the original Welhelm translation of the I Ching into German as well, of which I have the Baynes English translation – when he describes and gives explanations for some really strange phenomena, he immediately feels the need to say nothing "occult" should be inferred without explaining what he means by occult, etc.).

But in any case, just like everything else, we can reap whatever we can, all that is valuable and useful, mine the nuggets of gold and precious gems, so to speak from Jung’s work and keep in mind that no single source has all the answers nor is without distortions / biases, limitations, and problems – problems that the seekers of knowledge and truth have to deal with and resolve. For instance, an example closely related to all of the above is that if Jung did not study and work with Freud for a while and be exposed to Freud’s ideas about the subconscious while noting the problems and limitations, rigidity, etc. with both Freudian psychology and Freud as a personality, he may never have developed some of his own work with the unconscious and types, ARCHTYPES, Collective Unconscious, etc. Freud, with all his limitations and problems, opened the door for Jung and others to explore psychological terrain and develop modern understandings (and misunderstandings) of age old problems and phenomena and systems of knowledge; and so, Jung opened new doors and directions for others to carry on exploring.
 
SeekinTruth said:
but gives me the impression that he fears for "his reputation as a scientist."
I had the same impression. I also noticed how categorical (and condescending) he was regarding the medieval alchemists as basically not knowing what they were doing. He couldn't really see that perhaps some of them were consciously projecting their own qualities onto the matter of their work, and thus knowing themselves and refining themselves in the process. Thanks for your thoughts, SeekinTruth.
 
Isha de Lubizc's book 'The Opening of the Way' is an excellent book coming from ancient Egyptian Hermeticism (her husband Schwaller de Lubicz produced the simply astonishing work 'The Temple of Man' based on living by and studying the Temple at Luxor for 25 years). It is essentially Alchemy, or Fourth Way. Robert Fludd is also worth looking into if you are interested in Alchemy.
 
Back
Top Bottom