Alchemy

Vivitskaia said:
Isha de Lubizc's book 'The Opening of the Way' is an excellent book coming from ancient Egyptian Hermeticism (her husband Schwaller de Lubicz produced the simply astonishing work 'The Temple of Man' based on living by and studying the Temple at Luxor for 25 years). It is essentially Alchemy, or Fourth Way. Robert Fludd is also worth looking into if you are interested in Alchemy.
Wrong bar again Viv:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/schwaller_de_lubicz_1.htm
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/schwaller_de_lubicz_1b.htm
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/schwaller_de_lubicz_2.htm
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/schwaller_de_lubicz_3.htm

The bar for Blavatsky and Steiner is also in another town.
 
christx11 said:
Wrong bar again Viv
Do I have to agree with something in particular to be welcome at this bar?

I do agree about Helena Blavatsky and Rudolf Steiner.

However, I don’t understand why Schwaller de Lubicz’s ‘Intelligence of the Heart’ is equated with ‘Predator’s Mind’. I understand SdL’s ‘Intelligence of the Heart’ as what Ouspensky terms ‘higher emotional centre’ and Gurdjieff ‘Body Kesdjan’. It is located in the region of the heart. The lower emotions, those that we are born with, including our love of our partner and children, have their centre of gravity in the stomach. Body Kesdjan makes possible non-directional love and needs to be experienced. It is possible to verify this in yourself, and it requires sustained Work on emotions, knowledge and being. If I become aware of my self, as I am, without judging and with sufficient knowledge, it will give rise in me what Gurdjieff terms 'aieioiuoa'. This is the intelligence of the heart and is also described in the chapter Fourth Sojourn on Planet Earth in Beelzebub's Tales (the sphinx of the Akhaldans).

The ‘Intelligence of the Heart’ is also expressed in Christian iconography, as is ‘Reason’ (Gurdjieff’s ‘Objective Reason’).

The identification that Schwaller de Lubicz speaks of I understand as follows: when I am truly, fully, present, in all three centres, I become the entire moment. I am no longer limited to my physical body. I become able to identify, consciously, with all that is. I think that this is also a Sufi practice, although I am not familiar with the specifics. This requires a degree of self-Mastery, and implies control. This is not the same phenomenon as what Ouspensky terms as identification, which is mechanical and is the result of the absence of control, or absence of self-Mastery. As I understand it, these are quite different phenomena.

Read the Egyptian Book of the Dead and visit the Valley of the Kings, and the Temple of Karnak, and study it for yourself, draw your own conclusions. See for yourself what the ancient Egyptians knew of the afterlife, the possibility of building a soul (Ba, lower Ka and spiritual Ka) and eternal recurrence (ponder the Ankh).

Study El Greco's 'The Burial of the Count of Orgaz'.

Think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Don't rely on others for pre-digested information or knowledge. Study and examine writings and theories for yourself. You are intelligent enough. If one man can do it, any man can.
 
Vivitskaia said:
Think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Don't rely on others for pre-digested information or knowledge. Study and examine writings and theories for yourself.
This is something you should apply to yourself, Vivitskaia, long before you suggest it to one other person. You clearly have relied on others for pre-digested information and taken it all in as 'truth' - and now you are here on this forum to 'teach' others of how misguided they are. Not only is your cup full, but you seem incapable of digesting the information that has been presented to you due to an unwillingness to consider that not only do you not have all of the answers, but the understanding you are so identified with, that you cling to so tightly, is in significant error.

Not only is that unfortunate from a 'Being' standpoint (as it wholly prevents it), but it is growing rather tiresome to witness as well. osit
 
christx11 said:
The bar for Blavatsky and Steiner is also in another town.
Hi, christx11.
Can you give me some sources (debunking and/or otherwise) about Steiner? Mostly, I am familiar with his Waldorf educational philosophy but your remark sounds like he may be another persona non grata. I searched the forum and found very little on him; can you or anyone else please give me some resources to explore further?
Thanks,
Laurel
 
anart said:
Not only is your cup full, but you seem incapable of digesting the information that has been presented to you due to an unwillingness to consider that not only do you not have all of the answers, but the understanding you are so identified with, that you cling to so tightly, is in significant error.
Why is it in significant error with regard to Schwaller de Lubicz?
 
Apologies for butting in here but Vivitskaia, both Henry and christx11 have suggested that you read what's been researched about Schwaller de Lubicz but it seems that you have not.
 
Hephaelios discussion deserved it's own thread and has been moved here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9616.0
 
my local library has a copy of "Dwellings of the Philosophers

I cannot find any of the books that I wish to occupy in my library at all.
Every time I may hear about a book dealing either wih esoteric or
hermeticism wisdom I cant find it. Or I will either find a book I was not
looking for but I will still get it just for a little back up knowledge. But
I have found a very interesting book called " Entering The Circle"
by Olga Kharitidi.

This book is basically about her life as a Russian psychiatrist who meets
a patient who is a Shaman. And he takes her to the heart of siberia "Altia
mountians". She then gets this fantastic shamanistic experience which
change her life forever. This tells you somethings that the shamans do and
her personal experience. (this is a true story)

But I think I need to switch up librarys that have the certian type of
knowledge that I am trying to attain. I am not understanding why even
some books dont be on the shelves after I go looking for them. And they
don't even be checked out. Maybe I should just switch up library's instead
of going to the same one.
 
The only way to obtain those books for me was in pdf on internet.

Look at here people:

_http://vincentbridges.com/?cat=19

Is this guy the known guy that was the psycho trying to use Laura and the group? It looks he is doing his childish pranks alone!


Mod's note: Link deactivated.
 
Marie-Louise von Franz - Alchemy: an introduction to symbolism and psychology

Shows the secret goal of alchemy to be the transformation of the personality, the search for wholeness. Invaluable for interpreting images in modern dreams and for an understanding of relationships.

I really loved this book. I found it to be a very pleasant and nonetheless rich reading. It's a bridge between the Work, alchemy (and others pathes) and the Jungian concept of individuation. Very valuable IMO.

You can have a look here : _https://books.google.fr/books/about/Alchemy.html?id=wOVUUMirSnEC&redir_esc=y
 
Marie-Louise von Franz - Alchemy: an introduction to symbolism and psychology

I really loved this book. I found it to be a very pleasant and nonetheless rich reading. It's a bridge between the Work, alchemy (and others pathes) and the Jungian concept of individuation. Very valuable IMO.

Here is what Adam McLean had to say about Marie-Louise von Franz:

24th October 2007
I am going to spend as much time as I can make available over the next week or so to investigate the iconography of the Aurora consurgens manuscripts. This is one of the earliest alchemical manuscripts with illustrations dating to the early 15th century. There appears to be almost nothing written about this work in English, apart from the Marie-Louise von Franz book on the Aurora consurgens which is frustrating in that she entirely ignores the illustrations and focusses on the first part of the text and provides a massive commentary which draws the reader into a mass of Jungian interpretations. She focusses our attention on the existential/religious content of the text and chooses only to translate one part of the text associated with this work.

9 Jan 2008
Yesterday my spirits were lifted later in the day by the postman delivering a book. I had been trying to get hold of a copy of this for some months from a bookshop in Italy but they were very slow in getting it to me. It contains a translation of the text of the Aurora consurgens. As I indicated here, back in November I decided to embark on a quest to understand and contextualise the imagery of the Aurora consurgens, one of the most mysterious of early alchemical emblematic manuscripts. The work is well known through the Marie-Louise von Franz book, however, few people realise just how misleading her book is, as she focusses on only one section of the text and mines it for Jungian concepts rather than placing it in its proper context. Thus her book, for me, throws little light on the true nature of the Aurora consurgens.

18 Jan 2008
I have long been looking for someone to translate a key work, on what we might describe as spiritual alchemy. This is the Philosophia speculativa by Gerhardt Dorn, written in the closing decades of the 16th century. Small pieces of this were translated by Jung and von Franz and quoted in their books, however, I am very aware that these translations are not accurate, but seem to filter Dorn's ideas through Jungian constructs. What this needs is for someone to translate it literally from the Latin, so that we can get a clearer picture of what Dorn was trying to say, rather than what the Jungians wish to gloss into his text.

25 August 2009
Back in the 1970's I was much impressed by the amazing early alchemical manuscript the Aurora consurgens. This I knew through a few of the illuminated drawings which had appeared as illustrations in some books available to me at that time. Around 1980 I managed to obtain a copy of the Marie-Louise von Franz edition. Despite the influence which Jungian ideas held on me in those days I remember being deeply disappointed by the volume. Somehow it did not seem to give me any answers. The von Franz translation of the text amounted to about 50 pages in her lengthy book of 500 pages. She was conextualising the work within Jungian ideas, which was not inimical to me in those days, but her lengthy excursions into the complexities of Christian ideas of the fourteenth century, left me rather puzzled. I left her book confused, feeling I had missed something. Her book also did not deal in any way with the imagery on the thirty or so coloured drawings. Recently I discovered that she had only translated half the text. She had left out Part II, the alchemical section which comments on the drawings, dismissing this as unworthy of her consideration and saying in her Introduction "In contrast to the entirely original, poetico-rhetorical, confessional style of Part I, Part II has a prosaically didactic character which follows the usual style of the contemporary alchemical treatises". So she cut off the alchemy from this work. Over the last few years a number of people have written to me asking which part of the Aurora consurgens refers to the illustrations, as they are puzzled by the lack of mention of this in von Franz' book. So I have now decided to translate the full text and issue it in my Magnum Opus series. Yesterday I made a start and will work on it when time becomes available over the next few months, so that we will soon be able to read the complete work and not the truncated version with which the Jungians have presented us. I find I like "the usual style of the contemporary alchemical treatises".

26 August 2009
Following on my thoughts upon the von Franz edition of the Aurora consurgens I wonder now if the reason for her leaving out the second part was that she somehow considered that it did not mesh well with the Jungian ideas she was pursuing and did not support the main thesis of her commentary, that the Aurora consurgens contained a record in Jungian terms of a psychic process going on in the writer of the work (possibly Thomas Aquinas), some kind of abnormal state of mind that produced an eruption of the contents of the writer's unconscious. The second part is equally imaginative as the first, but is within the tradition and conventions of alchemical material and thus not really to be seen as a spontaneous emergence occasioned by some abnormal psychic state, but rather something more thought out, based within the traditional style of alchemical writings. Her decision not to mention or show the illustrations could have arisen from the fact that she would then have had to include the alchemical text of Part II as it comments on the imagery. The Jungians always use alchemy as a support for their psychological theories rather than allowing the alchemical work to speak for itself within its own terms and proper context. Jungian interpretations of alchemical works can be an obstacle to our understanding of these. So I am determined to let the Aurora consurgens now speak for itself.

31 August 2009
I have made some progress with translating the alchemical text of the Aurora consurgens and am now about half way through the first rough draft. It is now becoming obvious why von Franz did not want us to read this text in her mutilated edition of the Aurora consurgens. It just did not suit or support the thesis she was presenting to us. Sadly, I myself was deceived by this and I neglected until very recently to undertake any deep research into the Aurora consurgens because of the existence of her work. I now find it very annoying that an intelligent person thought they could deceive people by purposively hiding a key part (a half indeed) of an alchemical work in making their edition. It is not as if she did not have the leisure and funding to be able to visit Zurich and examine the actual manuscript. I have struggled most of my life without such funding and leisure. I could not go and examine the manuscript in Zurich, instead I foolishly relied on her book. It is rather amusing that a Jungian writer has recently written a work of interpretation, in full Jung mode, in which they explored aspects of the Aurora consurgens - perhaps that should be "aspects of the part of the Aurora that von Franz wanted us to see". I am sure this later writer was entirely misled by von Franz and knew nothing about the full text. Hopefully, later this year I will be able to publish the full text. My translation will have flaws and imperfections, but it will at least be an honest attempt to let the original writer of the Aurora consurgens speak to us again after six hundred or more years, and not a deceptive attempt to mutilate and recontextualise his words.

1 September 2009
I am still harping on about von Franz and her misrepresentation of the Aurora consurgens. It is not only myself that was misled by her work but today I read in Mircea Eliade's classic book The Forge and the Crucible where on page 197 of the later English edition, he writes after referring to von Franz' book "Aurora consurgens is unique among alchemical treatises. Only about half-dozen of the "classics" of alchemy are quoted, and technical instruction and chemical recipes are lacking". The technical instruction and chemical recipes are lacking only in von Franz's redaction of the work! I have spent the last week or more translating these chemical recipes and processes. That Eliade, who was close to the Jungians knowing them personally and being invited to the Eranos conferences, was also misled, is rather sad.

10 September 2009
I have almost completed creating a corrected copy of another image from the Aurora consurgens manuscript. It still requires a little more tweaking and cleaning up. One of the interesting aspects of this well known image is that it has been described as a battle between the Light Sun and the Black Sun. The Black Sun does appear in a very few alchemical works - the Ripley Scroll, the Kelly 'Theatre of Terrestrial Astronomy' and in an image in Mylius' Philosophia reformata - but is not mentioned in the Aurora consurgens. Instead the black headed 'Sun' is an artefact, well known to anyone familiar with medieval manuscripts. Illuminated manuscripts often had gold and silver leaf applied to parts of images. This was laid onto a cushion of gum and then burnished to a high gloss. Now gold does not tarnish as it is chemically inert, but silver on the other hand is attacked by sulphur oxides or hydrogen sulphide in the air and develops a black patina. This blackening has been interpreted by some people, unaware of this aspect of silver leaf in manuscripts, as an intention of the artist and writer. Sadly, I have on a few occasions had to disillusion people about this 'Black Sun'. They are usually unhappy about this and in a few cases even thought me to be foolishly mistaken. The 'Black Sun' image is one that Jungians and other esotericists are strongly drawn to and thus invest their belief in. They are often not very amenable to having their 'Black Sun' taken away from them - but truth remains truth, however much one wishes to believe in a contrary viewpoint. This image instead is about the opposition of Sun and Moon as is seen in the section of text in the Aurora consurgens which this image serves to illustrate.

15 September 2009
My amusement with the von Franz Aurora consurgens continues to grow. In her book she wants us to accept that the text of the first part was written by Thomas Aquinas. Now there is no evidence at all for this, and I doubt if one could find a single Aquinas scholar who would accept the Aurora as being written by Aquinas. There are some alchemical writings that are established as being written by Aquinas, for example De mixtione elementorum. Here we read a sentence, where he is speaking of compounds, such as:

"Some think that the substantial forms of the elements remain, while the active and passive qualities of the elements are somehow placed, by being altered, in an intermediary state; for if they did not remain, there would seem to be a kind of corruption of the elements, and not a combination."

A closely argued and analytical piece of scholasticism. Now von Franz, finding the Aurora consurgens to be written in an entirely different style with a confused gathering together of ideas, suggested that this indicated that Thomas Aquinas was here going though some strange inner psychic struggle. This seems mere self-delusion on her part. She wants us to see the work as a record of Aquinas undergoing some psychic breakthrough, happily analysable by Jungian psychology. It is instead obvious that the work was not written by Aquinas, but then that would have spoiled her thesis. Sadly, her book has cast a long shadow over the Aurora consurgens - but it will rise again!

28 January 2011
I have spent the last few days printing out and binding up copies of the latest book in my Magnum Opus series. This is the vitally important early work, the Aurora consurgens, which exists in a number of manuscripts, the earliest of which is in Zurich and dates to the early 15th century. Sadly, our modern view of this work has been distorted by the translation of part of the work by von Franz and its contextualisation within a Jungian psychological mindset. A few years ago it really annoyed me that the Aurora consurgens was incapable of being properly understood because people were trying to grasp it only through the Jungian publication. The work contains a series of 38 amazing illustrations but these were not included in the von Franz edition, no doubt because they did not fit into her Jungian thesis. Over the last decade or so people have been writing to me asking how the images fit into the text. I tried to explain that they only had access to part of the work through the von Franz, but it became obvious to me that in order to allow people to appreciate the Aurora consurgens I would have to produce an edition of the entire work complete with the illustrations. After attempting a translation myself, I eventually was able to put this into the much more capable hands of Paul Ferguson, and he has now produced the first ever English translation of the complete work. The ealiest manuscript, that in Zurich, has been damaged and is incomplete and does not contain the complete set of images. I decided instead to use the images from a later manuscript here in Glasgow.

So, I spend the last few days binding up an initial batch of copies and these are now available for sale. This will be seen as one of the treasures of the Magnum Opus series and it has given me the greatest pleasure to have been able to make this work available, so that people can read it as it was intended. I publish it with no commentary, no attempt to contextualise it within some set of modern ideas.

 
What approach would you recommend for those who want to get 'inside' the classical alchemical texts? I have seen lots of discussion on the unmoderated Alchemy Forum about the Twelve Keys of Basil Valentine, as an example. The discussion makes me think that it is easy to look at the symbols from the outside and to project our own content and perspectives onto them, but much more difficult to let the texts speak. My question would apply to the text of the books as well as to the symbolism.

My way of working with the texts and symbols is to try to approach them afresh, as if one were seeing them for the first time. I try to exclude importing any preconceptions. The worst thing one can do is to take each symbol on an image and say - the "lion means this", the "eagle is such and such" - this won't get you anywhere with alchemical symbols.

They need to be approached much more sensitively. I usually put photocopies of the image or series on a space on the wall of my workshop - at the moment I have the thirteen images from the 'Hermaphroditisches Sonn- und Monds-Kind' (Hermaphrodite child of the Sun and Moon). Sometimes, as I pass these images, I just take a few seconds to look at them - to gaze at them as things in themselves - not analyzing or trying to intellectually dissect them. I try to hold close to the forefront of my mind the sense that these symbols were fashioned by an alchemical writer centuries ago and contain an essence of that writer's alchemical philosophy, which I can only get a clear picture of, if I resonate with what is in the images. By revering these images in this way, I stop myself merely intellectualizing and dissecting the symbols. As I work with these images they become a part of myself and I no longer need the outer pictures on the wall as I can inwardly recall all the details of each of the images of the sequence.

Eventually, the images begin to show something of their inner working to me. I will suddenly find myself focussing on some aspect or arranging the images in a particular pattern. Often this leads nowhere but sometimes there comes a moment when one gets a clear insight, and the sequence suddenly comes together as a united whole, and I can see each separate image as occupying a phase or part of a process. Then I have to find some way of writing this down in words, and here I often find problems in articulating and communicating the overall picture of the process that I have in this way perceived.

This method also works for me with alchemical texts and allegories. Here I have to develop and build strong inner pictures of the textual material, but the method, for me is much the same as with series of engravings or woodcuts. For example, I am presently beginning to work with the Monte Synder 'Metamorphosis of the Planets', a most elaborate and convoluted allegory.

Adam, I hope we can speak a bit more about symbolism, since this is a rich and fertile ground. It has taken me some years to find myself approaching some balance on this matter, since I was looked at things rather superficially: "Symbolism is important to understand, but I don't want to overdo it since I might end up over here with the Jungian faction and I really want to pursue laboratory practice, do work in physical alchemy". While that is a bit of an exaggeration, still there has been a need to center my viewpoint a bit more.

I find it amazing how quickly work with symbols can transport us into a mystical realm, where access to ideas and sensations about universal and archetypal matters take on a substantial reality. Symbols seem something like 'vitamins for the soul', that really can transform us as people. This is my perspective as someone who is a novice, or a recent enthusiast. I would like to hear what you can say about this as someone with a much longer practice. The possibilities seem immense to me.


Alchemy has always had various different ways of working woven into it. One of these is symbolism - either through the pictorial emblematic imagery or the elaborate allegories found in the texts. I have spent much of my time working with this symbolism. As I said earlier, it is fruitless to try and grasp the symbols in an analytical intellectual way, to nail them down to precise meanings, or draw up a symbolic lexicon. Very interesting exercises, perhaps, but probably pointless. To gain access to what is in the symbols, one must take them into ones being, breathe them in, as it were, or allow oneself to resonate with the imagery.

Then they begin to speak within us. This is, I believe, not merely a subjective exercise, but if one holds true to a profound sequence of symbols such as the Splendor Solis, the Mylius series, the Rosarium, the Aurora Consurgens, etc. resisting projecting ones own prejudices and views on the sequence, but letting it reveal itself in its own time, one comes eventually to see how each symbol in an emblem echoes and reflects its neighbors, and ultimately to grasp something of the inner reasons why the sequence is structured in a particular way. Some emblem sequences may take years of work before one has a sense of what is hidden in them. Working with symbolism might be dismissed as an easy option by the practical alchemist struggling to get equipment to work and find the correct ingredients, but the inner work with symbolism is equally difficult. Often one seems to have a sense of the sequence only to realize a day or so later that this was ephemeral and insubstantial.

This parallels the experiences of working in practical alchemy. Whether or how symbolism transforms us as people I cannot now articulate. When I was younger, I thought I knew the answer to this question, but now it remains a mystery to me. I still feel that people can gain very much in terms of their inner development, though perhaps only those with a deeply introspective nature and much patience can truly enter into the inner symbolic landscape of alchemy.


This reminds me of R. G. Collingwood's view on history:

Since the internal thought processes of historical persons cannot be perceived with the physical senses and past historical events cannot be directly observed, history must be methodologically different from natural sciences. History, being a study of the human mind, is interested in the thoughts and motivations of the actors in history, this insight being encapsulated in his epigram "All history is the history of thought." Therefore, Collingwood suggested that a historian must "reconstruct" history by using "historical imagination" to "re-enact" the thought processes of historical persons based on information and evidence from historical sources. Re-enactment of thought refers to the idea that the historian can access not only a thought process similar to that of the historical actor, but the actual thought process itself. Consider Collingwood's words regarding the study of Plato:

In its immediacy, as an actual experience of his own, Plato's argument must undoubtedly have grown up out of a discussion of some sort, though I do not know what it was, and been closely connected with such a discussion. Yet if I not only read his argument but understand it, follow it in my own mind by re-arguing it with and for myself, the process of argument which I go through is not a process resembling Plato's, it actually is Plato's, so far as I understand him rightly.​

In Collingwood's understanding, a thought is a single entity accessible to the public and therefore, regardless of how many people have the same thought, it is still a singular thought. "Thoughts, in other words, are to be distinguished on the basis of purely qualitative criteria, and if there are two people entertaining the (qualitatively) same thought, there is (numerically) only one thought since there is only one propositional content." Therefore, if historians follow the correct line of inquiry in response to a historical source and reason correctly, they can arrive at the same thought the author of their source had and, in so doing, "re-enact" that thought.

Collingwood rejected what he deemed "scissors-and-paste history" in which the historian rejects a statement recorded by their subject either because it contradicts another historical statement or because it contradicts the historian's own understanding of the world. As he states in Principles of History, sometimes a historian will encounter "a story which he simply cannot believe, a story characteristic, perhaps, of the superstitions or prejudices of the author's time or the circle in which he lived, but not credible to a more enlightened age, and therefore to be omitted." This, Collingwood argues, is an unacceptable way to do history. Sources which make claims that do not align with current understandings of the world were still created by rational humans who had reason for creating them. Therefore, these sources are valuable and ought to be investigated further in order to get at the historical context in which they were created and for what reason.

 

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