All About Fasting

I can only offer my own experience.

Several fasting experiences from few years ago, all about 3 days in a duration. Drinking only purified water throughout which made it basically a starving. I remember feeling light headed at times, and of course pangs of hunger. My cognitive abilities were unaffected, energy levels were good enough for light workouts. But my sleep both length and quality was affected and went down the hill.

With fasting regimen, the difference is light and a day.
Eat your full inside the 8 hour window. No bad effects, really nice sleep, brain fires up fast and strong, and I am able to do all hard work around the farm + daily job without a hitch.
Literally no comparison and one of the best decisions in my life.
 
I can only offer my own experience.

Several fasting experiences from few years ago, all about 3 days in a duration. Drinking only purified water throughout which made it basically a starving. I remember feeling light headed at times, and of course pangs of hunger. My cognitive abilities were unaffected, energy levels were good enough for light workouts. But my sleep both length and quality was affected and went down the hill.

With intermittent fasting regimen, the difference is light and a day.
Eat your full inside the 8 hour window. No bad effects, really nice sleep, brain fires up fast and strong, and I am able to do all hard work around the farm + daily job without a hitch.
Literally no comparison and one of the best decisions in my life.
Hi @Honzap I made a change to your second paragraph. It sounds to me like you are talking there about intermittent fasting (mention of the 8 hour window) and it was confusing because your first paragraph was relating difficulties with fasting, and your second paragraph was more positive about fasting. Did I understand this correctly, or have I missed something? Apologies if I missed something.
 

Understanding the Randle Cycle​

Story at a glance:
  • Some in the keto and carnivore space argue that eating fats and carbs together will result in weight gain because of the Randle cycle, which serves as a switch that only allows your body to burn either fats or glucose, one at a time, not both together
  • The Randle cycle refers to an antagonism between glucose and fats as fuel, which explains why you can become insulin resistant when you avoid carbohydrates
  • If you’re in chronic ketosis, your tissues decrease their insulin sensitivity, which can lead to or contribute to insulin resistance
  • A low-carb diet is best implemented as a temporary strategy to restore metabolic flexibility. Once metabolic flexibility is regained, adding more carbs back in will help to lower cortisol, which is highly inflammatory
  • A narrow time-restricted eating (TRE) window is also counterproductive once you’ve regained metabolic flexibility, as extended fasting also raises cortisol
 

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I struggle with fasting, even for a day but am much better with the intermittent fasting regime. I have given up eating breakfast as I get up at 4 am for work four times a week and it is far too early to be eating anyway. I tend to have my first meal at 12 or thereabouts and on work days I stop at 7ish as I have to go to bed early for the next day. Not so easy on non working days however but I still don't eat till around 12. The difficulty on my non-working days is I don't go to bed until 11ish and I am usually thinking about food during that time unfortunately....:-) Hopefully even four days of intermittent fasting will prove useful.
 
Here's a handy guide I found online and put in a doc for easy printing and reference while fasting.

I recently did 5 days and felt great. Did another 2 day fast last week. Will be doing another soon. Kids here have decided to fast one day a week.

When I fast, it's just distilled water, nothing else. I break the fast starting with a cup of bouillon or bone broth, and then just meat. That continues the ketosis for as long as you can stay keto.
 

Attachments

Understanding the Randle Cycle​

Story at a glance:
  • Some in the keto and carnivore space argue that eating fats and carbs together will result in weight gain because of the Randle cycle, which serves as a switch that only allows your body to burn either fats or glucose, one at a time, not both together
  • The Randle cycle refers to an antagonism between glucose and fats as fuel, which explains why you can become insulin resistant when you avoid carbohydrates
  • If you’re in chronic ketosis, your tissues decrease their insulin sensitivity, which can lead to or contribute to insulin resistance
  • A low-carb diet is best implemented as a temporary strategy to restore metabolic flexibility. Once metabolic flexibility is regained, adding more carbs back in will help to lower cortisol, which is highly inflammatory
  • A narrow time-restricted eating (TRE) window is also counterproductive once you’ve regained metabolic flexibility, as extended fasting also raises cortisol

Well, I read it, and given Mercola's seeming recent "disintegration" (See here: Has Mercola Lost It?), and how radically different from other things he promoted in the past this is, I'm not very convinced...

He COULD be onto something, but then again, it comes down to just listening to your body, doing proper lab tests, etc. and adjusting. We know that keto is not for everyone, or that some people benefit from longer fasts than others, more or less carbs, etc. And his explanation about cortisol was interesting. But did you see what he has for breakfast? :scared: He's gone to quite the other extreme.
 
He COULD be onto something, but then again, it comes down to just listening to your body, doing proper lab tests, etc. and adjusting.
I agree; also this is one of the recommendation from https://m.youtube.com/@JFwellness
(Dr Mercola recommended in few instances, at least in the last 2 years ,in his podcasts the above channel: The Energy Balance Podcast - which I listened for now 40 episodes : and I gladly recommend to anyone interested in improving their health)

Listening to this 40 episodes I included with confidence more carbs(potato, white rice, fruits - with room to improve) and observed my energy levels rise and general wellbeing improve; with no increase in body fat.

Well, I read it, and given Mercola's seeming recent "disintegration" (See here: Has Mercola Lost It?), and how radically different from other things he promoted in the past this is, I'm not very convinced...
I read the above thread and pay extra attention to his articles; with the intention to post those that I sense are useful (from my perspective)
 
Has anyone in the forum dealt with an eating disorder, such as binge eating and successfully tried fasting?

I am asking because I am trying to understand the difference between starving and fasting as both trigger hungry signals and can make one not feel great, for fasting that's usually when one is new to the practice and getting into it (from the research I have done, please correct me if I am wrong)

I guess I am confused because as I do The Work, I am coming home to the idea how important to is to listen to our body's signals as someone who has spent most of her life in her head and overthinking, not paying attention to what the body needs.

I know there is a ton of well documented research on the benefits of fasting but I am having trouble reconciling the benefits while ignoring our bodies cue for hungry

I'd really like to get to a point of fasting for 3 days but I right now am un able to make a full 24 hours as I get so sick and low energy and then end up eating so much which seems like binge eating

Is my body not ready to fast do you think?

Edit: I realized I already posted something like this recently. I clearly need to re-read this thread more thoroughly. I can't delete the post so I made an edit
 
Here's a handy guide I found online and put in a doc for easy printing and reference while fasting.

I recently did 5 days and felt great. Did another 2 day fast last week. Will be doing another soon. Kids here have decided to fast one day a week.

When I fast, it's just distilled water, nothing else. I break the fast starting with a cup of bouillon or bone broth, and then just meat. That continues the ketosis for as long as you can stay keto.
Is there reason to drink distilled water at all? I would suggest drinking spring/mineral water.. Dr. Berg talked about situation when insulin level drops, body starts to loose water and minerals. Distilled water doesnt help in that situation, quite opposite. I add tea spoon of salt everyday to be on safe side.
 
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A short article on the benefits of dry fasting. The author has a lot of content, including certain protocols for addressing long covid and autoimmune conditions.

His claim is that a 1 day dry fast (no food and no water) results in the same amount of autophagy as a 3 day water fast.


Although there are a few studies I can pull from, today I'm going to focus on one titled The ‘selfish brain’ is regulated by aquaporins and autophagy under nutrient deprivation.

By observing data about LC3-II levels in the brains of rats, this study was able to watch how autophagy increases under different conditions of nutrient deprivation. LC3 is a protein that is critical to autophagy. We can use this information to see how much autophagy is happening at a given time. The goal of this study was to be thorough and provide 3 different scenarios of deprivation. Food deprivation, water deprivation, and both food and water deprivation. This gives us a study that provides quantifiable results when comparing water fasting and dry fasting.


If you're a dry faster, you can now use this information to retaliate and 'clap back' 😂 at anyone trying to tell you dry fasting is not better than water fasting. Armed with this information you can back up the claims you've always known deep down inside. One day of dry fasting provides more "additional" autophagy than 3 combined days of water fasting! Amazing! (at least in terms of brain and nervous system autophagy)

While the study shows autophagy does significantly increase after 1 day of both calorie restriction and dehydration, I think his analysis is missing something.

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Dry fast autophagy jumps to something like 2.8 after just 1 day, then tapers off. Hey says it's 3.0 in his video, but it's not at that level to my eye. He's inflating the numbers a bit.

It also appears he doesn't know basic math? Day 1 of a water fast = 1.5. Day 2 of water fast = 1.5. So the cumulative Day 2 water fast LC3-II level = +3.0.

So 1 day of dry fasting does not 'provide more "additional" autophagy than 3 combined days of water fasting.' Dry fasting provides in 1 day around the same amount of additional autophagy as 2 combined days of water fasting.

That aside, I've never tried dry fasting before, and will give it a try. He also has some other interesting information about dry fasting, such as metabolic water, which I'd never heard of. Our body creates water internally while in a state of dehydration. Our body fat is a storehouse for the ingredients for water! Our muscles can provide water, too.

This is how dry fast fanatics - or those desperate to heal - can survive periods of no water intake for 9 to 11 days. This is also how Native Peoples could do well on their vision quests, which generally entails going into a sweat lodge and dropping a ton of water, then hiking up a mountain, sitting in prayer for four days with no food or water, hiking back down the mountain, and then going into another sweat lodge. I'd always wondered about the biology of that.


Metabolic water is the water that animals produce within their bodies through the breakdown of nutrients, such as proteins and fats, during their day-to-day activities. It's a fascinating and essential process that helps creatures maintain hydration, especially when external water sources are limited.

Think of a camel crossing the desert. These incredible animals can survive without water for extended periods, partly because they can generate metabolic water to compensate for the lack of water intake. As camels break down the fat stored in their humps, they produce water, which helps keep them hydrated during their long journeys.

Another example can be found in birds. A study on zebra finches showed that even when deprived of water for 24 hours, these small birds were still well-hydrated. By burning their own fat stores, they were able to generate a significant amount of metabolic water to maintain their hydration levels.

Process of creating metabolic water​

Metabolic water is created through chemical processes that occur within an organism's cells during the breakdown of nutrients like carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. These nutrients are converted into energy, and water is produced as a byproduct. Let's dive into the chemical processes behind metabolic water creation.

Carbohydrates, mainly in the form of glucose, are broken down through a process called cellular respiration. Glucose is combined with oxygen, creating carbon dioxide, water, and energy in the form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). The water generated in this process contributes to metabolic water.

Fats are another significant source of metabolic water. They are stored as triglycerides, which are broken down into glycerol and fatty acids. The fatty acids undergo a process called beta-oxidation, producing acetyl-CoA molecules. These molecules enter the citric acid cycle (also known as the Krebs cycle or TCA cycle), which generates ATP, carbon dioxide, and water. The water produced in this cycle adds to the metabolic water supply.

Lastly, proteins are broken down into their constituent amino acids. These amino acids are then deaminated, removing the amino group and forming ammonia, which is further processed into urea for excretion. The remaining carbon skeletons enter various points of the citric acid cycle, producing energy, carbon dioxide, and metabolic water.

Fasting and Metabolic Water in Zebra Finches​

Most creatures need a regular water supply to survive, especially birds. Water scarcity can limit birds' habitat, flight range, and altitude during migration. However, some animals can generate water by breaking down their own tissues, such as proteins and fats, when under extreme conditions. It was previously thought that proteins were the main source of water, as they are associated with bound water molecules. But a curious team of researchers from Jagiellonian University in Poland decided to investigate how birds produce water from their metabolism.

The researchers conducted a study with zebra finches, dividing them into three groups: one with unlimited access to food and water, one with access to water only, and one without access to either. After 24 hours, they measured the birds' metabolic rates and analyzed their body composition. Surprisingly, all the birds were well-hydrated, even the ones deprived of water. However, the body composition of the birds varied significantly. The water-deprived birds were able to generate an impressive amount of water by burning their own fat.

To produce the same amount of water from proteins, the starving water-deprived birds would have to break down a potentially dangerous amount of protein from their body tissues. This would not only affect the birds during fasting but also when they started eating again.

The researchers now suggest that fat serves as the primary source for metabolic water production, challenging previous views that protein was the main source. This fascinating discovery helps us better understand how birds manage their water supply under different conditions.
 
I don't know how much credibility to give this but thought it was worth sharing. It seems that any detrimental cardio effects are long-term and related to increased levels of the stress hormone cortisol, which is triggered by fasting. Perhaps regular practice of EE breathing would keep the cortisol in check?

 
American Heart Association is a mixed bag. Here are their diet recommendations:

OK whatever, except the oxalate factor
Mixed bag recommendation as I’ve read whole grains can be rough on the stomach lining
MOSTLY BS
  • Liquid non-tropical vegetable oils such as canola, corn, olive, soybean and sunflower oils.
Absolute and complete BS
Ok
Sure
  • Foods prepared with little or no salt
Whatever
  • Limited or preferably no alcohol intake
I don’t necessarily trust the mega association gatekeepers - enough truth to support the lies
 
American Heart Association is a mixed bag. Here are their diet recommendations:

OK whatever, except the oxalate factor
Mixed bag recommendation as I’ve read whole grains can be rough on the stomach lining
MOSTLY BS
  • Liquid non-tropical vegetable oils such as canola, corn, olive, soybean and sunflower oils.
Absolute and complete BS
Ok
Sure
  • Foods prepared with little or no salt
Whatever
  • Limited or preferably no alcohol intake
I don’t necessarily trust the mega association gatekeepers - enough truth to support the lies
No wonder heart related disease is the biggest killer of people in the western world
 

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