Am I naive? Scam or no scam?

M

Mal7

Dagobah Resident
Recently while staying in Colorado as I was returning to the dorm we were staying in with 4 or 5 of my new friends, we met an agitated but polite and well-spoken man seeking help. His story was that he had just driven in from New York with his wife and daughter, who were just down the road in the foyer of a motel. His car had broken down and been towed away to a garage. He was in great need of another US$15 so he and his family could stay at the motel. He had already asked at the 7-Eleven and they had been unable to help. He said he was about to have an anxiety attack, and seemed like he was as well, and that he would give up his gold chain if necessary.

I was inclined to believe him, so I went back to my room and got US$20 and gave it to him. My friends all seemed inclined to not believe him, and that it was a scam. One advised “Don’t go anywhere with him” (Good advice, and I wasn’t intending to.) They said “His wife and daughter are not there. Ask him for his gold chain.” I said, “Maybe it’s a scam, but I’d feel bad if it wasn’t”.

So I gave him the US$20, and he seemed very grateful. We exchanged names, shook hands, and he said he’d pray for me. He walked away talking on his cellphone, saying how he had just got the money he needed and would also be able to buy a chicken something or other.

I think maybe it was a scam, but in terms of probabilities I still think probably he was genuine (at least 80-90% chance of genuine, if I had to put a figure on it.)

I know this is now a secondhand story, and it might be hard to judge without being there, but does anyone have any opinions about whether this was definitely a scam, or most likely not a scam, or, as I hold, hard to say decisively one way or another?
 
Hi Mal

I am wondering why it matters to you. 'Scam' or no 'scam' it was/is a lesson, the meaning of which will appear at some time, if not right now.

I could be missing your point though. May I ask why knowing if it was a 'scam' matters to you?

Vic
 
I am interested mainly because if it is reasonable to think it was not a scam, then it doesn't reflect very well on society, as represented by the cross section of my friends, that they would all assume it was a scam and choose to ignore or dismiss someone in apparent distress. But maybe they were right and I was naive/wrong.
 
If I had the 20 bux to spare, my inclination would be to just give it. Sure, it might be a scam, but it's no hardship to me and in the event it is not a scam, I've helped somebody.

If you didn't have the 20 bux to spare, then you were scammed.
 
Mal7 said:
I know this is now a secondhand story, and it might be hard to judge without being there, but does anyone have any opinions about whether this was definitely a scam, or most likely not a scam, or, as I hold, hard to say decisively one way or another?
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I would say most likely a scam. I say this from going through a similar experience when I lived in the States. In a supermarket carpark a man approached a housemate of mine telling a similar story involving broken down car and family. He said he needed $20 for a specific car part and instead of a 'gold' chain my housemate was given a mobile phone as collateral. Turned out the phone was stolen.

There are also numerous examples on the 'distressed stranger scam' on web of similar such as:

_http://snopes.com/fraud/distress/stranded.asp and _http://www.scambusters.org/distressscam.html
Distress scams like the ones listed here succeed because the crooks are often very plausible; they seem genuine -- but that's the essence of con artist tricks and is especially effective when it preys on your conscience.
[...]
The best general policy is to be skeptical of anyone who asks you for money, when appropriate to do what you can to check out their stories, and, if you really feel moved to do so, to only donate small sums of money.
Click to expand...

Granted, some may be genuine and it is more comforting to think that you helped someone in need than fell victim to a con. Although it is only a small sum this is how these folk operate and common advice is to say no politely, walk away and if you're still feeling guilty you're better off donating that money to a cause you know is genuine.

It's hard though.
 
- Mal7, There more than likely, everyone has encountered this situation more than once in our lives.
It could very well be that the individual, may have needed help. Unfortunately, that could only come from actually, and verifying by witnessing his condition in person. Which very well could have been more dangerous following him anywhere.

So many people are in dire straights today, that it is difficult to spot the con's, from those that could rally use a break, with a little assistance.

I would not know if his situation was game, as there are so many clues that can give away the deception of the a persons true intent, that only can be observed in person.

Some indicator's can be demonstrated by, and through body language, tone of the story, inflection of the voice, facial gestures, and or eye movement's.

Demeanor, is the story a play of pity, trying to steal your reasoning, to let one's guard down, thus making the con pulling the stings of your emotions.

What was his dress, and posture, and does he get up near ones face, as means of possible subtitle, and subconscious intimidation.

What did your motivations in tale? Have you ever encountered another similar situation that turned out to be a hustle. And did you see this in the current situation when you were confronted as a means of quick reference for a line of defense.

Here is a utube on the hustle, that comes with the sign of the times, of the current globule situation of desperation, of social paths.

The Real Hustle
_https://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealHustleA3M?feature=watch
The best of the factual entertainment series about scams and cons focusing on how easy it is to be scammed and conned in everyday life.
 
Mal7 said:
I am interested mainly because if it is reasonable to think it was not a scam, then it doesn't reflect very well on society, as represented by the cross section of my friends, that they would all assume it was a scam and choose to ignore or dismiss someone in apparent distress. But maybe they were right and I was naive/wrong.
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Well it's kind of a double-whammy. We know that society is absolutely crawling with predators who like to prey on the weak and naive, and because people are aware of this they will go to great lengths to avoid being scammed by said predators, thereby choosing often to not give a helping hand to those who really need it. I have been scammed by being too generous in the past, and I have often been unnecessarily cold with people to avoid even the chance of being scammed.


What I've learned is that the most important thing is to ask questions, get as much data as possible before making a decision. I.E. How/where did the car get towed, why aren't his family with him, why can't he just visit an ATM? But still some people are extremely smooth liars, and can just do a stellar job of pretending to be distressed and in need of cash. I think Laura's response is spot on, you can never really be sure of somebody's intentions, but if you have the means to give then it is often better offer help, just in case somebody is genuine.
 
Living in NYC I come across this situation on a regular basis. All kinds of people from many cultures and economic means are asking for money or food.

These encounters are fleeting because we are all coming and going, so the decision to give or not must be made only by initial impressions - "by feel."

Like Laura said, I'll give at times without knowing for certain because I can spare it, not a loss for me but a potential benefit for the receiver.
 
I would go with it's a scam only because my ex-mother-in-law had the very same thing happen to her except that the guy was going to send her the money back when he got home. It never was received.

But, as has been said, if you had the money and it's no loss to you, then no big deal.
 
Mal7 said:
So I gave him the US$20, and he seemed very grateful. We exchanged names, shook hands, and he said he’d pray for me. He walked away talking on his cellphone, saying how he had just got the money he needed and would also be able to buy a chicken something or other.

I think maybe it was a scam, but in terms of probabilities I still think probably he was genuine (at least 80-90% chance of genuine, if I had to put a figure on it.)
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Confusing isn' it ?. Unfortuanately we will not know for sure. I have seen people who take money from me and do the same to another person behind me . I also seen people who ask for cigarette, when they see I have only one cigarette left, refuse to take it. In your case, the only data you have is overhearing of 'Chicken' when he said he needed money for staying in hotel. so seems to me like a scam, though not conclusive.
 
Carlisle said:
What I've learned is that the most important thing is to ask questions, get as much data as possible before making a decision. I.E. How/where did the car get towed, why aren't his family with him, why can't he just visit an ATM? But still some people are extremely smooth liars, and can just do a stellar job of pretending to be distressed and in need of cash. I think Laura's response is spot on, you can never really be sure of somebody's intentions, but if you have the means to give then it is often better offer help, just in case somebody is genuine.
Click to expand...


That is good advice. If you can stay present, pick them apart with questions. Situations like this are a good oportunity to do the work. They are random, you can not prepare, so they give a good measure of how you are doing in the work. Well worth the $20 even if it was a scam. 2 months ago my brother and I got scammed for $20, 5 min after, I realized enough information was there the whole time to deduce it was a scam.

I did not stay present during the situation,and right off the bat I identified with this poor guy who lost his wallet and needed gas to drive 500km further to this job he had lined up,I split, and ran a program of I don't want to turn this poor guy down, I don't want him to think I'm an Jerk. The guy of course was counting on our external consideration, and we obliged. So in retrospect, "I" did not give this guy money, It was a program . I learned a lot from that experience because i was practicing self-observation. The next time something like that happens, I will try to stay present and be more "I am". I would gladly pay $100 to be randomly be tested again.

Do you not need a credit card to get a hotel room, know matter how much cash you have on hand?
I wonder how he will pay for his car after it is fixed?
My guess is a scam, but either way it may have been a worthwhile experience.
 
Would you consider it a scam if a beggar told you an elaborate story in the hopes you would fork over money? People on the street will often come up with elaborate stories to avoid the unfortunate negative responses and judgment. Whether they require the money to fix a car, buy a meal or feed a drug or alcohol addiction, it should come down to how you wish to respond when a fellow human requests your assistance, whether their story is genuine or not. It seems to me that one should only give what one can afford without judging as the alternative, being suspicious of everyone who claims to be in need, is a slippery slope I'd personally rather avoid.

I know too many people who won't give a homeless person money as they feel it would just be used to purchase drugs or alcohol. I'd rather live in a world where people, including addicts, have the choice of how to spend whatever resources they can muster. After all, it is their lives and they are accountable for their decisions.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, I'm still not sure whether giving money to a drug addict is a form of enabling, which may cause a form of karmic entanglement. But I currently err on the side of giving when asked (and when I can give accordingly) and letting the chips fall where they may.
 
In this country (Mexico) it is well known about scamers, I had fallen many times, and I think I would be falling next times too, sometimes I had “learn” not to give, I encounter daily people asking for (help$), being very old people, too way lost drug addicts, children, crippled, etc, sometimes is overwhelming, … there are also the ones, mostly around 20-40 years old, apparently selling candies or just asking for our cooperation, but their speech is quite manipulative, they say the come from the jail recently and instead of robbing us, they prefere to make changes in their lives so that's why they sell this or that. To those, I do not give anything, and I prefere not see them at their face either, pretending being asleep or facing the street. Because sometimes I think, he could be robbing you the next street. I just do not believe them.

I usually give to very old people or crippled ones, on the streets or in the subway, those who are in the subway, not all the subways have electric stairs, in order to remain there, they have to do it by themselves, or worst their family leaves them there.

I once encounter a looking speaking American girl, which she gave me her speech, telling me that she lost her bagpack and needed to contact her family because her passport was robbed too etc … and I really believe her story, wouldn't be that difficult believing her, where I work, even those who live in this city, avoid bringing fancy stuff, either clothes or bags, watches, the area is difficult. And I give her like $10, I had seen her N times from afar, and she had trying to tell me her story more than 3 times, I supposed she does not remember me, since she usually go for the tourist ones.

In my opinion, if the whole thing is a scam, the one who is loosing or gaining more karma is him/her. And everytime is a lesson.
 
There are a lot of people here who are asking for money at the robots (street lights) and generally I give them a R5 or so if I have the coins. I (hope) I can generally tell when they are genuine, because the way their face lights up and the "God Bless You"s and etc , compared to the guy who just takes it without a second glance. I try to remember which people are better "deserving" of receiving the money, because I don't have enough to give to everyone. Generally the guys trying to sell whatever they can (funny jokes pamphlets, little globes, metal wire figurines, license disk holders, rubbish bags, etc) are trying to be honest so I prefer to donate to them when necessary.
Haven't been to town in a while, but there are a lot of scammers running around there with their stories, very similar to what people said above. It's tricky, but if I have a few coins I like to give since it means almost nothing to me and (I assume) everything to them. The difference between eating or not eating, I think.
My friend actually gives quite a lot, like a R10 or R20 note to the guys at the robots, and the car guards by our car we bought a 6-pack of beer for once or twice. The first time they didn't even say Thank You or even look at us twice, and that attitude makes me not want to do that again for them. Maybe that's a lesson for me? In that you don't always need someone to be grateful for your giving (as that is a form of reward, I suppose) but the joy should be in the giving itself?
 
Another thing to consider is the question of what exactly qualifies a scam. Just because the story told is not entirely, or even at all true, that doesn't mean they're completely insincere either. For the people that are faced the choice of beg or starve, "have to kids to feed", "lost my job" and many others have become so commonplace nowadays that those that would help them utterly desensitized to the simple struggles and misfortune many people have. As a result, they need to make their particular case, their situation, exceptional in some way just to get enough attention to make someone consider enough to override the immediate "sorry, no" reaction. On top of this, they still have to compete with the "true" scammers in the form the suspicion they arouse with their actions, already evidenced by Mal7's friends and several other posts. And there is certainly a lot more harmful ways they could get what need if so inclined.


What Laura said can also be viewed, imo, as a form of Conscious Suffering or Paying in Advance, as well as that such an encounter would then make you consider "Do I have anything to spare?" and "If not, why not?", etc. On the other hand, if you find you're more concerned about whether or not he was just a con-artist, perhaps the lesson of this event is more about "you" than it appears. Just something extra to consider :)
 
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