Gonzo
The Living Force
Well, I have to say, this thread certainly does not belong to insipidio04 (or turtlemayhem for that matter). I am really impressed with how this group has turned the thread into something productive, respecting those who contribute to finding something close to an objective truth. Truly amazing.
When I was young, perhaps 8 yrs old, I remember postulating to my father that we are all basically bisexual with potentials in either direction on a spectrum from heterosexual to homosexual, depending on several variable influences (at the time, I had only envisioned environmental influences). I felt great when my theory actually made him pause long and hard before he told me it was a good theory, worthy of exploration.
Of course, I was so impressed by his approval that I never did take the notion any further. Dad was a highly intelligent, logic-driven man and it was quite hard for me to get any significant approval from him with me being such a confusing mix of abstract creativity and linear logic - I blame it on being born on the cusp between saggitarius and scorpio. ;)
In any event, that notion remains with me to this day.
Gonzo
When I was young, perhaps 8 yrs old, I remember postulating to my father that we are all basically bisexual with potentials in either direction on a spectrum from heterosexual to homosexual, depending on several variable influences (at the time, I had only envisioned environmental influences). I felt great when my theory actually made him pause long and hard before he told me it was a good theory, worthy of exploration.
Of course, I was so impressed by his approval that I never did take the notion any further. Dad was a highly intelligent, logic-driven man and it was quite hard for me to get any significant approval from him with me being such a confusing mix of abstract creativity and linear logic - I blame it on being born on the cusp between saggitarius and scorpio. ;)
In any event, that notion remains with me to this day.
Gonzo
knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
Gonzo said:
I couldn't agree more. This is a perfect example of what happens when you root out pathocrats. A great example for "creating a new world"
osit. ;D
Gonzo said:
abstract said:
A possibly good book for Christians to read is "Is the Homosexual My Neighbor" by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott. The books seems to try to be objective and includes science and scripture in its analysis of the topic and I thought it succeeded in diffusing a lot of myths and unquestioned generalizations and did offer information that enhances understanding about an orientation that has been around since sexuality itself has been around [to paraphrase the C's!].
Anyways, it came to my mind during this discussion because it was what I picked up when I discovered a family member to be homosexual and I wanted to start somewhere to get some understanding, because I had pretty much spent my whole life avoiding thinking about the topic.
In fact I would like to share this one bit that helps me see the topic in less limiting black and white terms and gives me an appreciation for the complexity of sexual orientation and sexual behavior in general:
Is the Homosexual My Neighbor said:
So next time someone says they are hetero- or homosexual, remember to ask them to assign a rating from zero to six! And maybe the number would change depending on one's developmental stage!?
Now I have to say with some of the posts by Laura and Deedlet, I am reminded I would rather look at people as souls anyways, and think about soul relationships, rather than put too much emphasis on sexual orientation if I can.
Thus with such discussions presented to me, reality looks a bit more complex than before!
More complex... and more varied and more amazing and more beautiful. IMO.
_Breton_
E said:
That's a very good point, E. Although I'll never know about my friend if this was the case or not. Maybe she was just always bisexual and never really realized it with all the programing we are strapped with. Or, maybe she was heterosexual. Does it really matter?
Puck, I can certainly understand you being so pissed off when people tell you your lifestyle's a choice! I feel that way, as well, when I read that trash. That ALL homosexuals could change their lifestyle if they just chose to do so. It's really sad that things are the way they are.
I find what Laura posted to be fascinating.
I also think that this article on Sott was very interesting:
I don't know how accurate this article is, but I found it intriguing anyway.
fwiw
Cyre2067
The Living Force
Laura said:
Ha. That would be, interesting. I think that if you hit the level of development where you find a soul-mate you probably would have a much more open and plastic sense of your sexual identity. As I've seen it, women have a much more plastic sense of their sexual orientation then men, and my guess is that's mostly due to the socio-cultural environment.
Buddy
The Living Force
Breton said:
I agree, it is complex, and I sometimes wonder how many people get confused about their sexual orientation early in life (like I did) just because they have certain unsatisfied hungers.
I don't remember actually sitting beside my dad or on his lap, with his arms around me, or really not much of any kind of loving, physical contact at all except during punishment. I grew up with this hunger though. There were times when I just wanted to make physical contact for the pleasure of it, whether a hug, physical playing around or just touching while talking or whatever. It wasn't a sexual desire, although physical arousal can occur from an automatic physiological pleasure response. Maybe that's why that was rare to non-existent in my household, I don't know.
Over a period of time, I noticed this desire diminished as I implemented some socially accepted contact with my dad, brothers and other males in certain contexts. Often, when I'm talking with someone, I'm quite enthusiastic and animated, so it's natural for me to shake hands, to touch someone on the arm, on the top or back of a shoulder, or something like that or even tie up and give them a little noogie (as a gesture of affection, not the prank).
By allowing myself this activity and knowing I'm not offending anyone, I'm quite happy about the issue now, although I still occasionally want to hug somebody for no apparant reason if I really like them. :)
bjorb
The Living Force
- Hi everyone
[quote author=E]I don't know too much about it being a choice, or genetic or due to circumstance, I just know that a heterosexual relationship is no indication of someone’s sexual preference. As long as it is frowned upon in our society, that’s how long you'll have gay people in seemingly heterosexual relationships.[/quote]
It’s indeed frowned upon nowadays in our society and has been for a very long time. Actually if you go way back which I do mean the ancient Greeks you actually see the opposite. Being bi-sexual was real normal. Having homo-sexual relationships was a part of there culture. If I am correct they actually preferred male-gay soldiers in the army. Since putting those lovers together would make them even fiercer in battle, fighting for each other lives.
Pointing out those difference considering the social stigma from nowadays and observing Ancient Greece in this matter I think really points out the power on how a social stigma can have such an impact on peoples mindset.
[quote author=Laura]One thing I have observed again and again is that "attraction" that is read by the brain/body complex as "sexual" is not necessarily that, it is simply a deep soul recognition that activates the creative/feminine aspect. Very often this attraction that is read/felt as "sexual" is taken to be just that, and the person acts on that sexually when that is a big mistake. It could actually be a brother/sister soul recognition, or a parent/child soul recognition, etc, and was never intended to be a sexual relationship which can muck things up a great deal in real life. Because, of course, once you act on those attraction things, other chemicals get going, you are in the soup, and all bets are off.
In other words, feeling an attraction that "feels" sexual toward a member of the same sex does not mean you are homosexual or even bi-sexual. [/quote]
This may explain my own sexual-orientation. I do have them towards girls. But I had and sometimes also do them towards men. Just rarely.
I even think that I am able to fall in love with them if they posses qualities from which I am attracted to.
As for the sexual part. Well I never explored myself in such a way. It never really crossed my mind. Only recently and this thread really pushed the boundaries from me. I am just not sure. Kind of odd actually I mean I always though that sexuality was just decided genetically, I guess there really can be more to it.
Still on this part I really prefer girls. So it left me wondering but that explanation from Laura really can explain it.
- I also know a guy who has started gay - later turned bi-sexual - and in the end has become heterosexual. He told me he would never turn gay-or bi again. Still he admitted that when having those sexual orientations.
He was able to love men but not anymore now. At least he though so.
[quote author=E]I don't know too much about it being a choice, or genetic or due to circumstance, I just know that a heterosexual relationship is no indication of someone’s sexual preference. As long as it is frowned upon in our society, that’s how long you'll have gay people in seemingly heterosexual relationships.[/quote]
It’s indeed frowned upon nowadays in our society and has been for a very long time. Actually if you go way back which I do mean the ancient Greeks you actually see the opposite. Being bi-sexual was real normal. Having homo-sexual relationships was a part of there culture. If I am correct they actually preferred male-gay soldiers in the army. Since putting those lovers together would make them even fiercer in battle, fighting for each other lives.
Pointing out those difference considering the social stigma from nowadays and observing Ancient Greece in this matter I think really points out the power on how a social stigma can have such an impact on peoples mindset.
[quote author=Laura]One thing I have observed again and again is that "attraction" that is read by the brain/body complex as "sexual" is not necessarily that, it is simply a deep soul recognition that activates the creative/feminine aspect. Very often this attraction that is read/felt as "sexual" is taken to be just that, and the person acts on that sexually when that is a big mistake. It could actually be a brother/sister soul recognition, or a parent/child soul recognition, etc, and was never intended to be a sexual relationship which can muck things up a great deal in real life. Because, of course, once you act on those attraction things, other chemicals get going, you are in the soup, and all bets are off.
In other words, feeling an attraction that "feels" sexual toward a member of the same sex does not mean you are homosexual or even bi-sexual. [/quote]
This may explain my own sexual-orientation. I do have them towards girls. But I had and sometimes also do them towards men. Just rarely.
I even think that I am able to fall in love with them if they posses qualities from which I am attracted to.
As for the sexual part. Well I never explored myself in such a way. It never really crossed my mind. Only recently and this thread really pushed the boundaries from me. I am just not sure. Kind of odd actually I mean I always though that sexuality was just decided genetically, I guess there really can be more to it.
Still on this part I really prefer girls. So it left me wondering but that explanation from Laura really can explain it.
- I also know a guy who has started gay - later turned bi-sexual - and in the end has become heterosexual. He told me he would never turn gay-or bi again. Still he admitted that when having those sexual orientations.
He was able to love men but not anymore now. At least he though so.
Buddy
The Living Force
Biomiast said:
Well, it seems I probably have a fairly unique view on the issue. Most of the evidence is anecdotal or cirumstantial and involves my experience, recapitulation and fragments of remembered conversations.
The kinds of sexual arousal I have experienced from physical contact with others would not have been, strictly speaking, a sexual response, because the focus was on a sensual kind of awareness - a whole-being 'feel good' kind of thing, where ALL the physical channels for blood flow happen to be OPEN at the same time. I think a recognition of this required a change in my core way of thinking, a reflection of a gradual process of attaining some emotional maturity.
I did do some research though (possibly relevant links below). It may be that the 'openness' thing is the key as well as thinking in "systems" terms. In the 'wealth' of information available, I found that the existing models of sexual response that the clinical literature is largely based on (such as Masters and Johnson, and Kinsey) don't account for the nonlinear experiencing of sensual/sexual awareness in terms of factors that involve all the various awarenesses being temporarily unified in a given situation along with one's impulses, motivations, subjective impressions and perceptions, etc. These existing models focus on the exciting stimulus, but what about the inhibitory resonse system and the synergy available from both (sympathetic and para sympathetic) systems working together as a system? I think that's the blind spot.
Another way to look at it is in terms of a Venn diagram, where there is a circle to represent each aspect of awareness. Each circle is in motion relative to the other circles and energy flows around the circles. As the circles flutuate, they are rarely in complete conjunction, rather they mostly intersect here and there at different times and in different configurations, always in motion. However, at times, (Gurdjieff's 3rd state of consciousness, perhaps), these circles can blend together almost seamlessly and when that happens, there is real electricity - a full kind of awareness on every level simultaneously - all channels are open - none excluded - and every part of you responds - before 'things' return to 'normal'.
At least, this seems to be my current understanding. There may not be undisputable clinical evidence yet, but I believe this possibility is allowable in our current model of existence and BEing and a person can probably set up experiments to test the hypotheses him/herself in the meantime.
-------------------------------------------------
The excitement phase (also known as the arousal phase or initial excitement phase) is the first stage of the human sexual response cycle. It occurs as the result of any erotic physical or mental stimulation, such as kissing, petting, or viewing erotic images, that lead to sexual arousal.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitement_phase
Physiological reactions are usually triggered through sensitive nerves in these body parts, which cause the release of pleasure-causing chemicals that act as mental rewards to pursue such stimulation. Arousal is usually the term used to describe such a physiological reaction. Physical sexual stimulation may also involve the touching of other people's body parts and may trigger similar physiological reactions.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_stimulation
Reconceptualizing Sexual Arousal
by Mary Hrovat
The Role of Attention in Sexual Arousal:
_http://www.scribd.com/doc/13706866/The-Role-of-Attention-in-Sexual-Arousal-Implications-for-Treatment-of-Sexual-Dysfunction
I don't know where best to put this, so I'll drop it here.
Rise of the Digisexuals:
Rise of the digisexual: How sex robots will encourage people to take on new sexual identities: Rise of the digisexual: How sex robots will define sexual identities | Metro News
Robot ‘brothels’ springing up around the continent; here’s what you should know about ‘digisexual’ age: Robot 'brothels' springing up around the continent; here's what you should know about 'digisexual' age
The Rise of the Digisexual: The Rise of the Digisexual
Rise of the Digisexuals:
Rise of the digisexual: How sex robots will encourage people to take on new sexual identities: Rise of the digisexual: How sex robots will define sexual identities | Metro News
Robot ‘brothels’ springing up around the continent; here’s what you should know about ‘digisexual’ age: Robot 'brothels' springing up around the continent; here's what you should know about 'digisexual' age
The Rise of the Digisexual: The Rise of the Digisexual
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