anxiety, supplements and diet. help please

[987baz]

thanks RedFox,

Could cause malnutrition

•Irritability, sluggishness and excessive crying along with behavioral changes like anxiety, attention deficit are common in children with malnutrition.

Focus on trying to get as much fat as you can (animal based fats only), and drop the exercise for now I think.
Meat broth would probably be better for you than bone broth to start with, and chicken/bacon soup with extra butter/fat would help.
L-carnatine may also be useful if you find you are not yet getting energy from fat, as well as ox-bile/lipase for fat digestion and taurine/milk thistle for liver/bile support (if you are malnourished all of these would be important I think). Best to research on these as well as continue reading.

I'm not sure about the malnutrition. It is possible though, thanks for pointing that out. The resistance training isn't overly strenuous, 20 minutes is all I do, but I think I will maybe give it a miss this week and see if that makes any difference. I've just had a virus, which gave me night fever, really hot fever and gastro like symptoms in the morning, which seems to have been the trigger for the anxiety as well, as before that I was doing pretty well with it for the most part.

I am about to order the milk thistle and L-carnatine, as I figure this can't hurt right?

At the moment, the stress of figuring out what to do, what foods to eat, whether to go into ketosis is definitely making me more anxious. I have been eating paleo for quite some time now, and most days my carb input is around 100g or so. I am going to make some bone broth as I think that could be really good and get some probiotics too. I made a fat bomb today, but I will go easy on that as I'm not sure that I should go straight into that, just start making it and have it along with doing the paleo thing for a bit to slowly increase fat intake?

I am also planning to get a hair sample done, so I can see what I am lacking and have too much of in my system, which will hopefully help in choosing the right supplements and detox things.

My apologies if this is a bit rambly and inconsistent, I'm feeling pretty discombobulated at the moment. I am reading keto adapted and multiple threads on the forum to glean more info.I do appreciate everyones advice! I do feel pretty isolated and uncertain of myself though, which makes it harder to experiment with things as I am very anxious about causing myself more problems.

 

[Minas Tirith]

At the moment, the stress of figuring out what to do, what foods to eat, whether to go into ketosis is definitely making me more anxious. I have been eating paleo for quite some time now, and most days my carb input is around 100g or so. I am going to make some bone broth as I think that could be really good and get some probiotics too. I made a fat bomb today, but I will go easy on that as I'm not sure that I should go straight into that, just start making it and have it along with doing the paleo thing for a bit to slowly increase fat intake?

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the fat bombs before you are in ketosis. Too many carbs AND fat bombs don't go together, imo, but I might be mistaken.

With 100gr of carbs you are on a good path and I would try to reduce even more down to 50gr. WHILE increasing your fat intake. Also monitor the protein, since this was probably a big factor in the past.

As for being afraid of ketosis: It should be very easy to get out of it if you feel it won't do you any good (which I doubt). Just eat more carbs again then.

With the broth you can't do anything wrong. It is kind of soul-warming ... Do you remember these books "Chicken broth for the soul"? This is how broth feels for me.

What is your social situation like? Can you talk to someone about how you feel?

M.T.

 

[987baz]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the fat bombs before you are in ketosis. Too many carbs AND fat bombs don't go together, imo, but I might be mistaken.

Oh, ok, thanks for the info on that, I was thinking of having a TBS or maybe a little more, every day to up the fat intake a little bit. not a good idea?

With 100gr of carbs you are on a good path and I would try to reduce even more down to 50gr. WHILE increasing your fat intake. Also monitor the protein, since this was probably a big factor in the past.

yes, very good advice! thank you for reinforcing that! The keto app I'm using to see what my intake is, says I'm not having enough protein? do you have or can you point me to the information regarding how much I should be having?

As for being afraid of ketosis: It should be very easy to get out of it if you feel it won't do you any good (which I doubt). Just eat more carbs again then.

yes, that makes sense, again thank you for clarifying things for me, like I said my mind is a little muddled at the moment!

With the broth you can't do anything wrong. It is kind of soul-warming ... Do you remember these books "Chicken broth for the soul"? This is how broth feels for me.

I am trying to find a good broth recipe, they all seem to vary quite a bit, but I guess the bottom line is to have the bones boiling for a while and adding a few herbs and maybe a couple of non starchy veggies for flavour? This is the one I was thinking of making.

2kg beef knuckle and marrow bones
1 calf's foot (optional)
3 TBS of apple cider vinegar
1.5 kg meaty rib or neck bones
3 onions
3 carrots
3 celery stalks
2 leeks
thyme
black pepper corns
1 garlic bulb
flat leaf parsley.

the veggies in this were on the List of non-starchy vegetables I found, so I figured they are ok to put in? If you have a recipe you would recommend I would be grateful :)

What is your social situation like? Can you talk to someone about how you feel?

I have a few very close friends who I have and do talk to about all this, one of which is on the forum, unfortunately she lives on the opposite side of the country, so we can only Skype. My mum has also been a great help as she has been through something similar herself. The main problem is, OSIT, is that while I have these close friends and mum, they don't know much if anything (apart from the one) about the information on here. So it is hard sometimes to to talk about everything as they simply don't understand. I think one of the big problems for me is that I am very hard on myself, I want to help and be a part of the community, I want to learn more and be of use. But, at the moment, because I am going through this anxiety, I find myself making it worse by stressing that I am not doing enough. I hope that makes sense?

 

[Minas Tirith]

I think one of the big problems for me is that I am very hard on myself, I want to help and be a part of the community, I want to learn more and be of use. But, at the moment, because I am going through this anxiety, I find myself making it worse by stressing that I am not doing enough. I hope that makes sense?

Just a quick note on this: You have to get better first before you can help anybody else. Remember this rather overused example of getting your own oxygen mask on first before helping your child to his/hers in the event of a plane emergency? Also you might already help others who have similar problems just by posting here!

M.T.

 

[987baz]

Just a quick note on this: You have to get better first before you can help anybody else. Remember this rather overused example of getting your own oxygen mask on first before helping your child to his/hers in the event of a plane emergency? Also you might already help others who have similar problems just by posting here!

Thank you M.T.! I never really thought of it like that. And yes, you are right, I do need to get myself to a better point of health, both physically and mentally before I can really help in the way I want to. Maybe, taking a little pressure off myself to contribute for a little while might be a good thing. I really appreciate your advise on this and for pointing these things out to me!

 

[Arwenn]

Hey 987baz, so sorry that you are going through this mate. There's some excellent advice given above. I'd definitely try bone broth to heal the gut and get fat levels up. Nuts and seeds maybe an issue with anti-nutrients and leaky gut. Intermittent fasting might be something to consider as well. I only take Magnesium as a supplement. The other thing would be to track your ketone levels. Give Abbot Medical a call regarding a ketone meters (they might be able to send you one); both glucose & ketone strips are readily available on eBay.

Diabetes Care
Doncaster Road
Doncaster, VIC 3108
Telephone: (61 3) 9843 7100
Fax: (61 3) 9855 8020
Customer Service: 1800 801 478
Enquiries: adc-cs.au@abbott.com

Hang in there! We are here for you

 

[987baz]

Hey 987baz, so sorry that you are going through this mate. There's some excellent advice given above. I'd definitely try bone broth to heal the gut and get fat levels up. Nuts and seeds maybe an issue with anti-nutrients and leaky gut. Intermittent fasting might be something to consider as well. I only take Magnesium as a supplement. The other thing would be to track your ketone levels. Give Abbot Medical a call regarding a ketone meters (they might be able to send you one); both glucose & ketone strips are readily available on eBay.


Hang in there! We are here for you

Thanks Arwenn,

Bone broth is definitely something I want to make, hopefully I can get to the butcher tomorrow and get the necessary bones to make it. I have been eating quite a lot of nuts recently (almonds, cashews, hazelnuts and walnuts), I will stop eating them for a bit and see if there is any change, thanks for that info.

Because I just had a virus and small bout of gastro, which was part of the virus, I think, I wasn't sure if I should fast, since I seem to be pretty tired. I have been drinking lots of fluids, mostly purified water and organic teas, with some coconut water. Last night was the first "meal" I've had in a couple of days, and I managed breakfast (bacon, mushrooms, 1 egg and spinach) this morning. Just had some more bacon with organic mince burger and avocado, carrot and some snap peas. So far so good.

Yes the magnesium works pretty well for me, helps me relax, I take it before bed. I am still taking the 5-HTP at night too, and because I haven't been sleeping so well (the virus gave me very hot fever) last night I took some melatonin, only half a dose 1.5mg which did help me sleep through the night.

I saw the keto strips online, they also seem to have them in chemists too, but I wasn't sure how accurate they are? Would the Abbot medical guys send one to this side of the country?
anyway thanks Arwenn, appreciate your support and advise

 

[RedFox]

You could drop the veg and cider vinegar from the broth recipe (see the thread on bone broth).
Sage/rosemary and garlic do help make it slightly more palatable if you are not use to it, and reduce the smell of it cooking fwiw.

 

[Chad]

At the moment, the stress of figuring out what to do, what foods to eat, whether to go into ketosis is definitely making me more anxious.

Hey 987baz :)

Having thought about it, i think Laura's comment is probably closest to the truth; that you have been consuming certain trigger foods (essentially high carbs) and this is probably the primary contributor. And i reiterate this because i think it demonstrates that rectifying the problem is actually simpler than you may think. And hence you shouldn't feel overwhelmed as it's deductions, rather than lots of new, additional, unfamiliar things to consider.

As an example of how our bodies adjust: the other day i had 1 x teaspoon of sugar when i was out at an interview (first time in 4+ months - to sweeten my coffee) - and i was flying till the late evening. It's like the difference between me and my teaspoon and someone i know who could easily consume a chocolate bar and a can of soda and not feel perceive any change. So once you begin to remove these triggers, you will begin to realise that actually they have been having more of an effect on your blood sugar/perception than you realise right now.

With that and the thread in mind; i listened to this interview with Nora Gedgaudas yesterday and it relates to our discussion nicely. There is an interview on STR which is quite extensive but this incorporates Nora's recent work regarding 'Adrenal Fatigue' - which i believe she states is kind of a misnomer, because it's much more than 'the adrenals' If i remember correctly.

She begins with how our bodies have evolved, what the research shows regarding our diet historically; she moves on to how stress effects us physiologically and how our society has us 'thinking there's a wolf at the cave entrance 24/7' (paraphrasing); but most relevant to our discussion is foods; their ability to heal - fats help regulate and create hormones, in particular, Cortisol, which when in disregulation (due to high stress and bad diets) has us sleeping badly (i think this applies to me) and suffering permanent anxiety. If i remember correctly, Nora herself suffered depression and anxiety in her youth, and i think this was her reason for getting to where she is today.

I post it here because it will give you an hour away from reading (i listened to it during my stretch). It's a nice overview of what's being discussed here, and may ease your concerns that there's just so much to consider. Nora is lovely to listen to and actually provides the processes of what's good for us and why, and what's bad for us and how it effects our bodies. This i think helps with will power, because you know why you shouldn't be eating something. And if you do eat something bad, you understand what it is doing and how it may effect you; cognitively and emotionally.

My reading for the ashwagandha said for some it provided relaxation and a few commented it gave them 'clarity' and 'alertness' - the speculation was that herbal products can effect people differently. I think Carls advice is spot on.

Finally, rather than over complicate things (in the early stages) , when i made the broth, i roasted a bag of bones from the butcher ("for the dog") for 20 minutes (till they're browning - this is for a richer meatier flavour and can be skipped), then chucked them with some apple cider vinegar (leaches out the nutrients) in the pressure cooker for 3 hours (saves time and energy), then again for another hour with some veg (onions, garlic, carrot - bay leaf, sea salt). As for your broth recipe; looks good to me! I've heard to add the herbs in the later stages so the flavour doesn't become bitter or lost from the intense cooking.

When i make the fat bomb, i have mine in the morning and then i don't have to think about it for the rest of the day - i make the coffee one. I have about 150g (75g butter, 75g lard - supermarket bought). This does kick start things so as you say, wait till you've done the reading and you feel ready - toilet trips and waking up were my issues! i would echo M.T's advice here that high carbs and high fat isn't a good idea, because i think the body just decides to store it all as fat. For me, It took a lot of guess work away from food, and made eating - not drowning everything in butter - that bit more palatable. I added digestive enzymes (a must, taken with the largest 'meal') and gut bio tablets to my regime.

I hope that my own rambling is of some use ;)

http://<iframe width="853" height="...=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

added:
Nora Gedgaudas, a widely recognized expert on what is popularly referred to as the "Paleo diet" is the author of the best-selling book, Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and A Longer Life. She is also the author of the newly released book: Rethinking Fatigue: What Your Adrenals Are Really Telling You and What You Can Do About It. She is also an experienced nutritional consultant, speaker and educator. She maintains a private practice in Portland, Oregon as both a Board-Certified nutritional consultant and a Board-Certified clinical Neurofeedback Specialist. Throughout this interview, we’ll discuss the Paleo diet and lifestyle of our ancestors. Nora speaks about the diseases of modern civilization that arrived once we adopted agriculture. She’ll talk about the changes in the human body that have occurred since the grain diet and she elaborates on the damaging effects of eating grain. We’ll also discuss the food and IQ connection and why the right kind of fat is essential for a healthy brain. Later, she discusses the brain/stress connection and the importance of a healthy nervous system. In the second hour, we’ll discuss the major issues with the low-fat trend and a vegetarian diet. She’ll address issues like hormone balance, blood sugar, ph, cravings and taking supplements. Later, we discuss “nose to tail” eating and Nora gives us some tips on what to eat, where to find recipes and how to cook the Paleo way.

 

[987baz]

Having thought about it, i think Laura's comment is probably closest to the truth; that you have been consuming certain trigger foods (essentially high carbs) and this is probably the primary contributor. And i reiterate this because i think it demonstrates that rectifying the problem is actually simpler than you may think. And hence you shouldn't feel overwhelmed as it's deductions, rather than lots of new, additional, unfamiliar things to consider.

thanks itellsya

I'm trying to figure out what my trigger foods are, I did have a few organic, gluten free corn chips about a week ago, when i began to feel tired, I'm not going to have any more of them, and haven't since. Then it's just a matter of figuring out which of the veggies I am eating, that are also causing problems.

I have Nora's new book on my to read list, I actually did start reading it, but then switched to The Ultra Mind Solution, and now to the book Laura suggested "keto adapted". Thanks for the link to the interview, I will have a look and have a stretch too :)

My reading for the ashwagandha said for some it provided relaxation and a few commented it gave them 'clarity' and 'alertness' - the speculation was that herbal products can effect people differently. I think Carls advice is spot on.

yes, i would agree, I may order some, to be used later, want to try and get my diet sorted first.

Finally, rather than over complicate things (in the early stages) , when i made the broth, i roasted a bag of bones from the butcher ("for the dog") for 20 minutes (till they're browning - this is for a richer meatier flavour and can be skipped), then chucked them with some apple cider vinegar (leaches out the nutrients) in the pressure cooker for 3 hours (saves time and energy), then again for another hour with some veg (onions, garlic, carrot - bay leaf, sea salt). As for your broth recipe; looks good to me! I've heard to add the herbs in the later stages so the flavour doesn't become bitter or lost from the intense cooking.

thanks for that, my mum has a pressure cooker, might try that out :)

When i make the fat bomb, i have mine in the morning and then i don't have to think about it for the rest of the day - i make the coffee one. I have about 150g (75g butter, 75g lard - supermarket bought). This does kick start things so as you say, wait till you've done the reading and you feel ready - toilet trips and waking up were my issues! i would echo M.T's advice here that high carbs and high fat isn't a good idea, because i think the body just decides to store it all as fat. For me, It took a lot of guess work away from food, and made eating - not drowning everything in butter - that bit more palatable. I added digestive enzymes (a must, taken with the largest 'meal') and gut bio tablets to my regime.

that makes sense, and I'm hoping that when i get the reading done and understand the process better, I can get the fat bombs going. The one I made today,looked like it turned out alright, but now I'm just a bit worried to eat it so, I think I will wait. I hate to waist food, but at least I know how to make it now.

Which digestive enzymes do you take? also, and forgive my ignorance, but what are gut bio tablets? like probiotics?

thanks again for you help!!

You could drop the veg and cider vinegar from the broth recipe (see the thread on bone broth).
Sage/rosemary and garlic do help make it slightly more palatable if you are not use to it, and reduce the smell of it cooking fwiw

thanks RedFox, I take it the cider vinegar is a trigger food? Sage/rosemary and garlic, check, will add those in. I have a quick look at the bone broth thread, I will keep digging through, as always loads of info.

 

[RedFox]

thanks RedFox, I take it the cider vinegar is a trigger food? Sage/rosemary and garlic, check, will add those in. I have a quick look at the bone broth thread, I will keep digging through, as always loads of info.

Not usually a trigger food. I just checked the bone broth thread as I was relying on memory - looks like the vinegar is ok (my mistake). The only side effect is too much and it won't gell when cooled.

 

[Keyhole]

hey 987baz,

Regarding the broth - I would recommend soaking the bones in cold water with apple cider vinegar solution ( ration 5:1 = Water:Apple cider vinergar) as this helps the bones release minerals. We usually cook our broth with no ingredients up until the end. In the last 3-4 hours you can add your seasoning and veg if desired. My personal favourite is lots of fresh coriander right at the end, 5 minutes before drinking :)

that makes sense, and I'm hoping that when i get the reading done and understand the process better, I can get the fat bombs going. The one I made today,looked like it turned out alright, but now I'm just a bit worried to eat it so, I think I will wait. I hate to waist food, but at least I know how to make it now.

Which digestive enzymes do you take? also, and forgive my ignorance, but what are gut bio tablets? like probiotics?

I think in many peoples experience, the fat bomb is best tolerated when taken in small doses throughout the day, this way it gives your liver an easier time digesting the fat. Once you have become keto-adapted you are gradually able to handle larger amounts of fat in one serving. At first I was not able to eat much fat at all (and would end up with diarrhoea ) but now I usually eat a whole 120g fat bomb in one serving for lunch - It is all dependant on each individuals fat requirements.

For supplementation PBPM is very informative, as is Maria Emmerich's - Keto-adapted. The digestive enzymes recommended are usually Ox bile or/and Betaine HCL, these are best taken half an hour before a meal. You can also drink a cup of water with apple cider vinegar half an hour before a meal to aid digestion. I assume gut bio tablets are pro biotic, the one suggested by Emmerich is Bifido Bacteria - in the morning half an hour before the first meal for gut health as well. All of this is easily picked up while reading the books :) I hope this answers your question.

 

[Chad]

I'm trying to figure out what my trigger foods are

I would say for sure corn chips will be a trigger! From MSG to sugar, to mineral stripped salt, oh, and then they're grains! :) As per the more experienced members, their reading suggestions are advisable first of all. Nora in the interview just states some basics which may be quicker; like the fact that corn is a no-no. Same for all grains, pseudo grains (buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth); basically anything that isn't a whole food is to be suspicious of

One thing that tripped me up is not having snack/quick prep foods to hand in an emergency. Olives, Pate, Cucumber, smoked mackerel, celery, ham etc.. And when you are out and about, go prepared. I wasn't the other day and so i had to have the demonic teaspoon of sugar.

thanks for that, my mum has a pressure cooker, might try that out :)

Oh the time saved (and the smell avoided) is worth its weight in gold! ;) My mum used it to cook vegetables for us when we were young; apparently 10 minutes to wait for vegetables is too long...

Which digestive enzymes do you take? also, and forgive my ignorance, but what are gut bio tablets? like probiotics?

Sorry! Yes, Probiotics. I couldn't think of the word and hoped you'd figure that out! So not your ignorance, mine.

I did a large order of supplements before going Keto, then received some advice from Gaby, and dropped the idea of supplementing myself to health, to eating for my health. So i just happened to have NOW foods Billion probiotics & NOW foods super enzymes. I actually find NOW to be effective, relatively free of added junk, availability to the UK, and cheap!

I ordered from one site in the US, the first time i was ok, the 2nd time i got 70£ in shipping and charges. So if you can, maybe use a UK supplier, or Amazon UK. I've found the selection available to the UK. very frustrating.

The fat will be feeding the good bacteria, so probiotics are a great idea, they'll be very happy. And the enzymes, take with whichever meal is largest.

I had fat intake related diahorrea but i was lucky that i didn't have too many responsibilities at the time, and so could leg it to the toilet whenever i pleased. So consuming it all at once wasn't a problem, but as per the other comments, you personally may want to spread it out. Just so you know

thanks again for you help!!

:)

 

[987baz]

I would say for sure corn chips will be a trigger! From MSG to sugar, to mineral stripped salt, oh, and then they're grains! :) As per the more experienced members, their reading suggestions are advisable first of all. Nora in the interview just states some basics which may be quicker; like the fact that corn is a no-no. Same for all grains, pseudo grains (buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth); basically anything that isn't a whole food is to be suspicious of

One thing that tripped me up is not having snack/quick prep foods to hand in an emergency. Olives, Pate, Cucumber, smoked mackerel, celery, ham etc.. And when you are out and about, go prepared. I wasn't the other day and so i had to have the demonic teaspoon of sugar.

Yes, corn chips, even if they were organic and gluten free are gone, apart from them, which I only had occasionally, I have stayed away from grains, although I was eating chia seeds for a bit too, but read they are a no no too, so they are gone as well. Thanks again for taking the time to point this out for me.

Yes snack prep is another thing, I was relying on nuts for that purpose, but I am taking a break from them too for the moment, and will reintroduce them later, to see how I go. I don't think I have a problem with them, but I don't want to take any risks at the moment. I found some sardines which I think are ok, I have also had canned salmon in spring water, which I think is ok. Mainly I have started cooking double the amount of meat for dinner and taking the left over for lunch, with a bit of avocado, a few bits of carrot and some red cabbage. I am also trying to find some sauerkraut as I have read that is ok and also good for the gut.

Sorry! Yes, Probiotics. I couldn't think of the word and hoped you'd figure that out! So not your ignorance, mine.

I did a large order of supplements before going Keto, then received some advice from Gaby, and dropped the idea of supplementing myself to health, to eating for my health. So i just happened to have NOW foods Billion probiotics & NOW foods super enzymes. I actually find NOW to be effective, relatively free of added junk, availability to the UK, and cheap!

I ordered from one site in the US, the first time i was ok, the 2nd time i got 70£ in shipping and charges. So if you can, maybe use a UK supplier, or Amazon UK. I've found the selection available to the UK. very frustrating.

The fat will be feeding the good bacteria, so probiotics are a great idea, they'll be very happy. And the enzymes, take with whichever meal is largest.

I had fat intake related diahorrea but i was lucky that i didn't have too many responsibilities at the time, and so could leg it to the toilet whenever i pleased. So consuming it all at once wasn't a problem, but as per the other comments, you personally may want to spread it out. Just so you know

I am going to see my naturopath tomorrow to get some probiotics and milk thistle. i found it at the supermarket today, but thought better of it, better to get the more expensive ones from a trusted source! I'm pretty sure I can't get any of the probiotics or ox bile stuff online as it won't get through Australian customs, very strict down here!

again thank you for your advise, it helps me no end to get feedback from you and the members of this forum. I've also read that I should take extra sodium and potassium to avoid headaches when changing over to keto. For now I am having small amounts of the fat bomb in the morning and in the afternoon when I get home.

hey 987baz,

Regarding the broth - I would recommend soaking the bones in cold water with apple cider vinegar solution ( ration 5:1 = Water:Apple cider vinergar) as this helps the bones release minerals. We usually cook our broth with no ingredients up until the end. In the last 3-4 hours you can add your seasoning and veg if desired. My personal favourite is lots of fresh coriander right at the end, 5 minutes before drinking :)

thanks for the tip keyhole, I do like coriander too and my folks have a herb garden so I should be set for that.

I think in many peoples experience, the fat bomb is best tolerated when taken in small doses throughout the day, this way it gives your liver an easier time digesting the fat. Once you have become keto-adapted you are gradually able to handle larger amounts of fat in one serving. At first I was not able to eat much fat at all (and would end up with diarrhoea ) but now I usually eat a whole 120g fat bomb in one serving for lunch - It is all dependant on each individuals fat requirements.

For supplementation PBPM is very informative, as is Maria Emmerich's - Keto-adapted. The digestive enzymes recommended are usually Ox bile or/and Betaine HCL, these are best taken half an hour before a meal. You can also drink a cup of water with apple cider vinegar half an hour before a meal to aid digestion. I assume gut bio tablets are pro biotic, the one suggested by Emmerich is Bifido Bacteria - in the morning half an hour before the first meal for gut health as well. All of this is easily picked up while reading the books :) I hope this answers your question.

yes, that makes sense about the fat bomb, I will continue to have small portions in the morning and afternoon for a while, until I feel I can have more!

I will ask my naturopath tomorrow about the ox bile and Betaine HCL, I'm going to start with the probiotics (Bifido) and milk thistle and then move on to the other ones when I start upping the fat. I thought it was best to help get the gut to a better place (after my gastro) before going full on into high fat.

thanks keyhole, yes that did answer my question!

 

[Nienna]

I just want to mention that there are some people (raises hand) that are sensitive, or even allergic to, garlic and onions. It's a real bummer, but there it is. So it doesn't hurt to drop them for a couple of weeks, too, and see how you feel after introducing them, one at a time.

For me, I can even eat herbs and spices, but my gut has really been run through the mill, but just wanted to mention it.