Any thoughts on Incels?

[nicklebleu]

Relationships are indeed a trade, of energy, time, resources, commitment, promises, affection and so many more ingredients. But it's quite more than that, it's more than the sum of its parts. The trouble with seeing it in such utilitarian terms will eventually land one in a position where there's no point in even considering getting into a relationship.

I think the above is pertinent to life in general - it’s kind of the fight against entropy. You don’t put any effort/ energy/ time/ resources into ANYTHING, it will go down the drain, slowly at first, and then all of a sudden - that being your body, your health, your job, your family, whatever.

But I also agree with Alejo, that it is way more than that. To me there seem to also be a philosophical/ spiritual dimension to this - and somehow connected to Free Will, or maybe rather to the concept of progression/ ascension of the soul, which requires constant input/ work/ learning for that to happen.

I am not really able to explain the above better, as I haven’t pondered the question well enough, but maybe someone else has - in which case I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

So being in relationship or not, or wishing to be in a relationship or not, the “way out” is the same wherever you are or whatever you do.

 

[axj]

One other aspect that has not been mentioned yet is that for people doing the Work it is preferrable or even necessary to have a co-linear partner who is also doing the Work.

This reduces the number of potential partners considerably.

It also seems that one of the modes of attack by 4D STS and such is to try to sidetrack people with "wrong" partners (eg. OPs).

 

[Happy Poo]

It is a little awkward this movement is growing. Anyone has some idea about what has sparkled it and what can be done to hinder it?
I have personal friend who fell to it. That's why I am bringing this up.

I've been chatting with a male friend about stuff like this recently, as he's just joined the online dating world, and some of the experiences he's described for guys in general are definitely pretty bad (being a male on a dating app).
Things do seem to be very much in favour of being female.
Eg, women get loads of "hits" or lots of interest, and the vast majority of guys don't. (Unless they are high status, very good looking, etc etc la la la di la! ).
I reckon online dating has alot to answer for.. As it puts people into boxes in a way that meeting them in person cannot.

And for men, these apps, it's like constantly putting temptation in the form of all these girls in front of them.. Whilst saying, btw, they aren't for you, your not good enough, handsome enough, you don't earn enough etc etc. It's as if they amplify everything, and create more of a gap between those who are in demand and those who aren't.

I can see that for alot of guys, these apps are a recipe for disappointment, sexual frustration and general frustration for those who aren't in the bracket of types that are attractive to females for whatever reason. From what he was saying, if he's chatting to a girl, the girl is likely to be chatting to several other men at one time and and so many cases, she'll just disappear. (Unless a guy is lucky enough to be a 'high value' male).
It's not necessarily just younger women that have alot of attention either apparently, older women gets lots too.
I think these dating apps have a lot to do with the incel thing.

And they seem to have become so popular that old fashioned meeting people out and about isn't as socially recognised as being a way to meet people as much as dating apps are nowadays. Or at least that was the impression. Just some thoughts.

 

[SOTTREADER]

This is really worth a listen. Throws a lot of perspective into this topic:

I also listened to the below yesterday too which is interesting but I didn't quite like it as the solution the guy was throwing out wasn't well defined and left a lot of room for pathology to seep in.

On the above, I also think a huge assumption is being made. Supposedly birth rates are declining because Women are picky and leave it too late (essentially) but I actually don't think this reason is true. I think birth rates are declining because more and more people physically can't have a kid despite wanting to and the question is why?

In any case, the bottom line in all these is rather than harbour hate towards others, work on yourself, don't play the victim, and look to cultivate something decent in your own life. No government is going to mandate women to do the thing that the person above is implying for the sake of preventing population collapse . That's a new level of tyranny.

 

[SOTTREADER]

I've been chatting with a male friend about stuff like this recently, as he's just joined the online dating world, and some of the experiences he's described for guys in general are definitely pretty bad (being a male on a dating app).
Things do seem to be very much in favour of being female.

I'd say this is natural surely - guys are the ones who naturally instigate interaction. So of course, every guy out there who comes across a profile they like they'll swipe to show interest. Alas, the woman on the other side of the profile then has all the options.

Somehow people take this dynamic to be the woman's fault whilst it's the guys who were swiping on her profile

And for men, these apps, it's like constantly putting temptation in the form of all these girls in front of them.. Whilst saying, btw, they aren't for you, your not good enough, handsome enough, you don't earn enough etc etc. It's as if they amplify everything, and create more of a gap between those who are in demand and those who aren't.

Yup, not only in terms of women but social media e.g. Instagram acts like this too. I used to have Instagram and one day it dawned on me that all it used to show me was highly materialistic stuff - being a guy who followed athletes and sports, all I got was famous athletes living their millionaire lifestyles, lots of gym content, mostly relating to women . I'm just a regular guy and all these was like "look at all these stuff you can't have" . So you know what I did... I deleted it and haven't looked back since

I truly think Instagram and the like is toxic to your mental well being.

I can see that for alot of guys, these apps are a recipe for disappointment, sexual frustration and general frustration for those who aren't in the bracket of types that are attractive to females for whatever reason. From what he was saying, if he's chatting to a girl, the girl is likely to be chatting to several other men at one time and and so many cases, she'll just disappear. (Unless a guy is lucky enough to be a 'high value' male).

Guys would also be chatting to more than one girl on the apps if they had more than one girl chatting with them. It's not just women

And they seem to have become so popular that old fashioned meeting people out and about isn't as socially recognised as being a way to meet people as much as dating apps are nowadays. Or at least that was the impression. Just some thoughts.

This reminded me of my university days prior to social media. Back then, night clubs, pubs etc were the places of choice to meet women. I'll tell you what, if you were just a normal dude, you better get ready for brutal in your face rejection from pretty much every interaction where you are signalling you want something from a girl you've just randomly walked up to in a bar.

I wouldn't necessarily say the "old fashioned" ways were easier / softer on guys who had the sorts of problems incels have i.e. quite sensitive to rejection, lack of social skill with the opposite gender etc.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, there aren't any easy solutions for people who have problems with all these stuff that revolve around this subject. Online / offline, wherever you turn, it's a jungle. I'm not sure it can be anything other than a jungle?