are animals STS or STO?

[Hildegarda]

I am not sure whether this is the right place to ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. What is the C's take and the consensus opinion on whether animals (2nd density being) are STS or STO? If this has already been discussed somewhere, would you please direct me there. Thank you very much.

 

[foofighter]

I have two things that I think are relevant to this question. First of all, this is an STS reality, so by default, everything is STS because that is the nature of the environment in which we live. One may hope to be a STO candidate, but that takes conscious effort, and since I doubt that animals are even aware of the possibility it doesn't seem possible.

Second, according to Ra and others the second density, that of animal consciousness, is dedicated to the forming of an individual consciousness. Figuring out what it means to be something separate from a whole, as is the case in first density (minerals, dirt, rocks, etc.). Learning the intricacies of how to relate to other-selves is not part of the lesson profile in 2D. Those lessons are, however, the central theme of 3D.

That doesn't mean that some individuals are extraordinarily sensitive to the needs of others, as is evident in many dogs. This may be a case of a 3D soul incarnating in a 2D environment, just as one sometimes read about 6D souls incarnating in 3D bodies, but as a general rule I think the answer is either "STS" or "neither".

 

[vinny]

there is a discussion sort of about this in Theodore Illion's 'Darkness Over Tibet'.

He regards certain animals as being on the ascending branch of life and others as being on the descending. I can't remember the details of his reasoning, but if I can find a quote I'll post it. The book is worth reading.

 

[Jacques]

As far as i understand the C's and what i have read (Mouravieff, Ouspensky, Gurji.) , i will say that they are STS. In order to be STO you need to have a conscience and a soul.

Those of second density who graduate in 3d will be in the beginning organic portal (pre-adamic) and after that adamic . Then when you have a soul and you have a conscience, you can choose your orientation. But as someone said, we are in 3d now and we are STS so far, but working to become STO.

 

[Pierre]

If I correctly remember the Sephirot tree that Laura made, there is no STO/STS duality in the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 7th levels of density. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Ruth]

As far as i understand the C's and what i have read (Mouravieff, Ouspensky, Gurji.) , i will say that they are STS. In order to be STO you need to have a conscience and a soul.

I've got both and I'm still STS (damn it!).

Those of second density who graduate in 3d will be in the beginning organic portal (pre-adamic) and after that adamic . Then when you have a soul and you have a conscience, you can choose your orientation. But as someone said, we are in 3d now and we are STS so far, but working to become STO.

Perhaps this is like asking whether animals have the capacity to read and write. It could be that the differentiation between STO and STS wouldn't, shouldn't or doesn't (?) apply to them at their current level of existence. Or, if you take it in reverse asking if humans have the capacity to do some of the things that 4D does. Maybe, but not here, (3D) and not now. I don't think we can apply the differentiation between STS and STO to their level.

 

[Russ]

I would say that they're STS but don't have any choice. Maybe some things don't really need any kind of "service" to themselves, such as stones, so they wouldn't be catagorised by either STS or STO. But I think for example cats are STS, they're just not that "clever".

I am however unclear what the C's said about this.

 

[highmystica]

It is my understanding that the choice to be STS or STO exists at every level. It seems though, that the lower one goes on the density scale the more STS one becomes. Still, there are entities that are bound in second density that are striving to become more ... my cats for example are practically vegan, I don't know why or how that came to pass - they just won't eat meat - I have finally discovered they will eat fish provided it isn't breaded and beef jerky (it's salty) - I'm beginning to suspect though that they are only eating that to humor me, they would far rather steal the potatoes from the pantry or pester me for my V8 - my take on that is that they empathize with other animals, but not veggies - but then I don't know how to empathize with veggies either. I know I don't have the only two cats that are like that - I know another guy who has to give his "meowers" salads too, but that "kind" of cat is certainly rare, I've always had cats - but up until three and a half years ago I never knew there were cats that ate less meat than I do. Anyway, to get back to the original question - I would submit that animal are BOTH STS and STO, and that both polarities exist in all densities except 7th, sometimes I think that 2nd density animals are better at projecting an STO reality than us humans because their reality hasn't been co-opted.

 

[Tomiro]

If I correctly remember the Sephirot tree that Laura made, there is no STO/STS duality in the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 7th levels of density. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, that's what I remember. You can find a pic of the tree here if you scroll down.

But maybe there are exceptions to this too?

 

[Keit]

But I think for example cats are STS, they're just not that "clever".

.

Hey, not another cats vs dogs debate :) (said Keit and glanced over her charming, extremely clever and STS to the bone cat).
Every rule has an exception, and we are not yet aware of all possible expressions of life, creativity or entropy. We measure everything with limited tools that are available to us and interpretate animal behavior as similar to human reactions or values, and this can turn out as a wrong approach. But we can still try and apply "as above so below" concept, taking into account that with each level down - creativity or entropy expressions become more "elemental" and symbolic. That means that their own form may hint their deep nature (spiders for example). Or so it seems to me...

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I think if you have to eat others to survive, you can't really be STO. But STO candidate sure. I think conscience/empathy is required, but it's what you do and the results of those actions that really defines you. Lots of people have "good intentions" but end up doing very painful, harmful things to themselves and others, due to ignorance and assumptions. That can't be STO - they're serving no one but themselves.

 

[Z...]

It is my understanding that the choice to be STS or STO exists at every level.

I think this is strictly related to the level of consciousness,
The fact that we are not able to determine weteher or not animals have conciousness doesnt mean they dont have it, at least in some form. So far none of the zoologists who were studing this problem maneged to prove anything. The biggest let down was the case of Koko The gorilla who was heavily studied for years.

I dont think that you have to have individual soul in order to make STO choice.
But we are coming to very thin ice now, for example

mother quail will do antyhing to protect her chicks, she will even risk her life pretending to be hurt in order to distract the predator


now can we really call this STO behaviour , or just an instint for continuation of the species?!

Same with your cats mystica, to me it is very difficult to beleive that your cats could have any more grasp of the concept where meat comes from then we have grasp of the concepts that rule 4th density

therefore I find it a bit strange that you readily declared them as being on STO path just because of tehir food preference. The case is strange indeed given the extraordinary high requiremnt for protein whic felines exibit compared to other carnivors

On the other hand I am sure you are biased like evry other cat person. Being a dog person I could give you many more examples from canine world which could be accounted for STO choice. :)


Joking aside the human history is full of cases of wierd and unexplained animal behaviour which indicates that the whole area requires further study.

I have been working with animals for years and one thing I am certain of, animals do have telepathic abilities, and they can read our thoughts - of course one shouldnt take this literally, this hapens on basic or if I may say primeval level (as I said before the main problem inability to grasp certain concepts from diferent density). Also I noticed that some animal individuals are better at this then other.

 

[Z...]

I think if you have to eat others to survive, you can't really be STO. But STO candidate sure.

Yea this concept use to be muddled for me at first. My original understanding of this problem was that you will manage to escape tthe 3 D only when you change the way you feed. hence my intial enthusiasm towords sungazing.

But what Laura and others had to say managed to shed alot of light on this subject. Namely the understanding that you are born in this world for certain purpose and required lessons, and seeking shortcuts to escape these lessons wont solve anthyng.

 

[Tomiro]

I think if you have to eat others to survive, you can't really be STO. But STO candidate sure.

Yes, I agree that most animals appear STS, although they don't really have a real choise in the matter. They just do what's in their nature.. Be it eating others, or caring for their offspring. So I would say the choise between STO or STS behaviour is not of importance for them, or necessary for them to"graduate" to 3D.

 

[highmystica]

Thoughts - I'm pretty sure my cats know where meat comes from - there are these two other feral cats that live on my property and they have to be eating *something* and being that my cats know them ... well. I agree that they don't have a full understanding of life at 3rd density, even I don't have that, likewise I don't really know what kind of choices an animal is faced with on second density - but I imagine that if we as third density critters can only remain as third density so long as we are less than 51% STO and less than 95% STS, then a similar set must exist for animals. I suppose that the original premise of the question is a bit limited - 2nd density animals on this planet ARE STS, but what kind of 3rd density animal can they graduate into? I think, though that the consciousness of animals in general is changing, and it strikes me as being more obvious than in my fellow humans - I have a friend who owns a "menangerie" of animals as she describes it and though her animals don't always get along for some reason or another she can keep them all in her little apartment without some of them eating the others. I agree with tomas that the choice to be STO or STS is not of the same kind of importance to them, I think for them to graduate to 3D they only need to develop a greater degree of understanding for animals not of their species, then in those where this understanding takes on qualities that border on compassion they will perhaps graduate into 3D with an orientation that is closer to the 51% STO mark and those animals that use their improved understanding to be better predators will graduate closer to the 95% STS mark. Either way then they'll get to go through all the ups and downs of third density life and who knows what these various animal entities will be like when they get where we are now ... but back to them in their current 2rd density status, the choices between STO and STS are far more simple, for to be a choice it can't be dictated by concerns of nature or survival, but it must be something that is made freely. A simple example would be in those animals that understand the idea of play, is how they choose to go about it - do they play games that are fun for everyone involved, or do they do something more malicious? Admitedly, there are probably better examples - and there are probably more things to consider - I agree with deckard that all this requires more study. And isn't that kinda sad - for the length of human history we haven't come to a fuller understanding of what things are like for those on lower desities as they are about to graduate into higher ones? I know, I know co-opted reality and all that jazz - such information might be to helpfull for us in our own state - ah, the joys of 3rd density life ...