Are you a Jerk and oblivious to the fact?

[CNS]

But I realize, that by being latently under-assertive, resentment can build up over issues, and at some point I blow my cap off, pouring all the accumulated resentment into the present situation, which then of course is totally inappropriate. I could have stopped the process at the very beginning by asserting myself better. And I think that this is what happend in the example above - partly because this new way is imposed on us without recourse, and I felt it had it's benefits, but was also unsafer.

I think this describes me too. I have always had the "be nice" program running since childhood, but now I am in management at work, and that particular program can be very detrimental.

My staff tell me that they like me, and that I am better than all the other managers, but I wonder if that is because I am too under-assertive. I ask them to do things nicely, but they know that usually if they don't do it right, I will finish whatever project the way I want it done. I suppose I should be more assertive at those times because a lot of things end up in my lap at the end of the day. And that doubles my work load. At some point I too blow up - and not always at the right person - and become a "jerk" to those around me.

I used to have difficulty reading people, but I have learned through self study and psychology to better perceive my peers, as well as, use external consideration, but this is always a work in progress. I can now tell via voice inflection and the changes in eye contact and facial expressions whether or not someone is alarmed with how I am treating them, or if they are really listening to what I have to say - even if it is after the fact.

I suppose my point here is that remembering ourselves isn't easy, but paying attention and reflecting on the past, even if the people we interact with are not very aware themselves, can still give us a general idea of how we are interpreted.

 

[Beau]

I have had similar experiences in management CNS. I would always try to maintain healthy boundaries with the employees "underneath" me. Sometimes you have to make decisions that they will not like, but if you bend to every person's whim, you won't get the respect needed to be a competent manager. Plus, they'll try to use your "be nice" program against you. So being assertive is important. I'm not someone who thinks managers shouldn't be friends with the people that work under them, because I think that if you maintain good boundaries then they will know that you aren't going to let them slide if they slack off. Even though I'm not familiar with the particulars of your work situation, I think that finishing a project that someone doesn't finish or does wrong is possibly sending the wrong message. I know you said that those things end up in your lap so I understand why you do that, but like you pointed out, doing that doubles your work load and causes you to stress and build up anger to the point it's released in an unhealthy way.

I would think that holding your employees responsible for their assignments and letting them know that there are repercussions would be more conducive to keeping your frustrations at bay and also create an environment where they work to their fullest to do what needs to be done. I've also said things I've regretted, and it sucks to realize after the fact that I was being a jerk. Paying attention to cues, body language, voice tone, is important, and I think just as important is being stern but not in a mean way. Just enough to know that you're serious. At least that was my experience, so FWIW.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Heimdallr]
Even though I'm not familiar with the particulars of your work situation, I think that finishing a project that someone doesn't finish or does wrong is possibly sending the wrong message.
[/quote]

I agree with the above, CNS. One way to look at it would be - are you really helping the people under you in this way? What if the next manager they have are not so accommodating and they end up getting fired because of the bad habits they develop? In my workplace, I had the chance to mentor an employee once after she had been put on probation and was a step away from being fired. It turned out that the employee was capable and the previous lack of performance was due to lazy habits for which both the employee and the people who managed her were responsible to an extent. She did turn around when motivated and challenged and this experience changed my perceptions towards the "do it all by yourself if needed" philosophy that I had held till that time.

While what you can and cannot do depends on the workplace culture, you may find this thread crucial conversations useful.

Fwiw

 

[cubbex]

Yes ! since my seminars about assertiveness, it seems this concept and people that practice on how to be assertive, or study this subject, end writing concepts and manners that appear to be synonymous to the work. I thought being assertive was being a snake charming person, but I learned it pretty much depends on external consideration, when to be aggressive, when to be passive, when to be a jerk, when to help, when to say no, etc.

At least my teacher taught me it like that, is all about learning from your environment and your surroundings, and acting accordingly and respecting the social or psychological rules, this environment produces spontaneously.

 

[CNS]

Heimdallr and obyvatel:

Thank you for your advice. I thought long and hard about what you both said, looked in the mirror, and implemented change. Although I am no longer at that particular job since the move, I do feel the changes made were for the better, and made me a better person/leader and those that worked for me better all around employees.

I would think that holding your employees responsible for their assignments and letting them know that there are repercussions would be more conducive to keeping your frustrations at bay and also create an environment where they work to their fullest to do what needs to be done. I've also said things I've regretted, and it sucks to realize after the fact that I was being a jerk. Paying attention to cues, body language, voice tone, is important, and I think just as important is being stern but not in a mean way. Just enough to know that you're serious. At least that was my experience, so FWIW.

By holding them more responsible and applying more intensive discipline, I found that work was getting done more timely and I felt less stressed, which in return led to less "Jerk" behavior. Better overall dynamic between employee/boss relationship resulted.

I agree with the above, CNS. One way to look at it would be - are you really helping the people under you in this way? What if the next manager they have are not so accommodating and they end up getting fired because of the bad habits they develop? In my workplace, I had the chance to mentor an employee once after she had been put on probation and was a step away from being fired. It turned out that the employee was capable and the previous lack of performance was due to lazy habits for which both the employee and the people who managed her were responsible to an extent. She did turn around when motivated and challenged and this experience changed my perceptions towards the "do it all by yourself if needed" philosophy that I had held till that time.

The truth is that I was enabling them to be lazy and their own worst enemy. You're right, I was not being a good and fair manager. Thank you for bringing this to my attention obyvatel, not only do I need to cover my rear end, but as a manager, I am somewhat responsible for my staff's continued employment as well. By holding them accountable, I then allowed them to grow. Now since I've left the position, I feel confident that my staff will be able to more effectively do the right job, and most of them will not be in jeopardy of loosing it due to poor performance or misguided management.

While what you can and cannot do depends on the workplace culture, you may find this thread crucial conversations useful.

The SO and I have been reading the thread and the book...very insightful indeed.

I suppose that if someone lost a job because their manager/supervisor was unable or unwilling to give them the tools and responsibility to do their jobs right in the first place, that manager/supervisor would be the biggest "Jerk" of all! I am glad I was able to avoid that with the help of you two :)

 

[wattsup]

Heimdallr and obyvatel:

I suppose that if someone lost a job because their manager/supervisor was unable or unwilling to give them the tools and responsibility to do their jobs right in the first place, that manager/supervisor would be the biggest "Jerk" of all! I am glad I was able to avoid that with the help of you two :)

Hum,

I have a small company and can say from my experience that sometime, the motive are not that simple as you are stating.

Firstly, all the tools are given and then after, if one is seen using them properly, comes the responsibility. They are many steps involved as: Time, reactions to events, teamwork, questions asked and so on.

There were certainly a reason why you/that person didn't get the tools, responsibilities in the first place other than just the supervisor not giving it to you. I might suggest maybe just a lack of experience...

 

[Fluffy]

I guess if I had really apologized things would have been different but I wasn't able to see myself clearly or just even think for a moment how the other person could feel because of my behavior.

The bolded part, put together, is what this link is about: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35267.0.html . It seems that we are programmed to be jerks in all sorts of ways, to believe our own lies about ourselves, to think that we can really see and think. It really is a huge blind-spot in the mind.

I guess it takes time to un-jerk yourself.

It's not just that it takes time, what it really takes is being able to fully, viscerally, acknowledge this way the mind works. The minute you do, it will sort of make you feel frantic: "What?! I can't SEE things as they really are?! I can't trust my own mind, thoughts, perceptions, opinions?!" That is a terrible moment. It's horrifying that you have to realize that you have been so programmed and conditioned by your upbringing that you literally are blind to a lot of reality.

So, getting there is the first step.

Mme. De Salzmann's essay about the first initiation is about encouraging a person to just accept this and try to see it, but I'm not sure that a person can do that unless and until they have some sort of bankruptcy moment and realize that, yet again, people are criticizing them, rejecting them, hurting them, etc etc, and they just don't know why. They may say inside "why is this always happening to me? Not again!" and the agonized System 1 will demand that System 2 make a narrative to explain it, to get them off the hook, to make sure that the blame is someone else's. Gurdjieff's discussion of External considering versus Internal considering is exactly about this.

The thing with the bankruptcy moment is being as to keep that moment in mind after the moment has gone and things are healed. I'm working on that now, I had a major bankruptcy about 5 years ago. It took 3 years to earn back the trust of my family and friends. Now I have to constantly remember who I was what I did and where I've been because for a while there I just hid it under the rug because looking at myself back then is really confronting.
I suffer from a grandiose personality affliction but self remembering brings me back to earth a fair bit.
Looking in the mirror and saying 'I don't want to be that person again' really hits home for me about how much work still lies ahead of me. I've been told recently that people think I'm up myself. After considering this for a few seconds I agreed. Lots of work to do here.

 

[CNS]

Heimdallr and obyvatel:

I suppose that if someone lost a job because their manager/supervisor was unable or unwilling to give them the tools and responsibility to do their jobs right in the first place, that manager/supervisor would be the biggest "Jerk" of all! I am glad I was able to avoid that with the help of you two :)

Hum,

I have a small company and can say from my experience that sometime, the motive are not that simple as you are stating.

Firstly, all the tools are given and then after, if one is seen using them properly, comes the responsibility. They are many steps involved as: Time, reactions to events, teamwork, questions asked and so on.

There were certainly a reason why you/that person didn't get the tools, responsibilities in the first place other than just the supervisor not giving it to you. I might suggest maybe just a lack of experience...

I'm not sure that you are understanding the context of this post. I apologize for any confusion. I was the one that was being perceived as a "jerk" as a supervisor, but received some good advice in order to avoid putting others' jobs in jeopardy. Please read my previous post on this thread, reply #30, for better meaning to the conversation.

 

[ROEL]

More than just include awareness of others' perception of us, it seems that the only really reliable way to 'see' ourselves is through the eyes of others. Of course, it is crucial to find 'others' who can be relied on to give objective feedback. That's why a network like this one is indispensable to the Work on the self.

I believe you're right on target. Clearly said. Thanks, Perceval.