Armenians Mark 100 Years Today Since Genocide Committed by Ottoman Turks

nature said:
I have a question about armenian genocid:
The ottoman sultans were tolerant on minorities (jewish were protected by sultans, whereas they were not wellcomed elsewere) and on religions, so why these atrocities on Armenians?

They didn't only attack the Armenians, they also murdered Assyrians, Greeks, and Kurds, among others. See this article:

The Young Turks leaders' systematic policy of violent 'turkification' first targeted the Greeks: "More than 100,000 Ottoman Greeks were expelled from the Aegean and Thrace to create living space for Muslim refugees who had themselves been brutally driven away from Crete and the Balkans. Hundreds of thousands of Greeks were deported from the coastal regions to the interior due to alleged strategic reasons during the war. Finally the anti-Greek campaign of the Young Turks found its continuation in [Turkey's first President] Mustafa Kemal's expulsion of the Ottoman Greeks. The burning of Smyrna [known today as İzmir, Turkey] and the slaughter of its Christian inhabitants in 1922 marked the symbolic end of Greek presence in Turkey." The massacres and forced deportations had cost the lives of up to one million Greeks.

Approximately 300,000 Assyrians residing in the Ottoman Empire were murdered; their villages were burned, and churches were destroyed. The number of Armenians who were targeted by the Young Turks' policy in 1915 however exceeded that of the others, with up to 1.5 million Armenians meeting their death by either being burned alive - sometimes in groups of only women and children - or dying from starvation and fatigue on the death marches leading to the Syrian desert. While some Kurds joined Ottoman soldiers in murdering, raping and looting Armenians, some Kurdish groups such as the Alevis from Dersim [today Tunceli Provence, Turkey] gave refuge to Armenians. As a result, they too were not exempted from the Young Turks' brutality. During World War I, up to 700,000 Kurds - including the perpetrators - were forcibly removed with approximately half of the displaced perishing.

I don't know much about their treatment of the Jews, so I'm not sure if they've been treated in a similar way.

nature said:
When I was young, I remember our turkish neighbors speaking about their country: how Ataturk positively changed the country, giving women the right to vote, the only country on the world that gave this equality to women, idem for education, with a rate of alphabetisation the higher on the world, the abolition of religious wearing for women, laicity. it's said that his adopted daughter was an Armenian girl!
So: how a leader that respected women and children have been able to continue such atrocities?

Good question nature. Maybe he did create those positive changes for the Turkish population, while continuing its violent policies against minorities and most non-Turkish, non-Muslim groups. So, some Turkish people mostly remember the 'good stuff', while not being told (in history class for example) about these kind of massacres. Ataturk was a member of the Young Turks, and as you read above, is partly responsible for the deaths of Greeks. Added: Maybe he continued such atrocities against minorities, because those people are not as important to him. One of their goals was to 'turkify' their empire, so minorities were often not treated well. Hope this answers your questions a bit, others may know more.
 
Hi nature,

but on children? even on babies?? What raping a young child can bring to this child?

I do not understand, I try to make sense but I can not.
 
Oxajil said:
nature said:
Because they're psychopaths. A psychopath never admits his horrific acts.

True, I think that's the case here. They're also not admitting the horrific acts they commit against the Kurds in eastern Turkey, I actually didn't know this was happening and once I read about what was going on there, I was shocked. I can just hope it will all come to an end soon. :(

nature said:
Genocid is allways awfull. :cry:
The C's say life is a lesson. I agree. But what about all these children all over the world, all over the Times, that have been tortured, raped, or murdered? What lesson is it for the child? This kind of acts on children is unacceptable for me, and for anyone who has conciousness, that's why i can't understand how the Universe allows it.

Christine said:
Nature thank you for raising this question is something I also asked myself for quite some time. Those that are tortured, raped, killed in agony, they knew what they were going to happen to them before we came to earth? And if so why did they make this choice? Is it a question of karma? My questions are not just for children but for all people to whom it happens to them.
I may be missing something ... I do not know

I've wondered the same. Reading the Wave helped me understand this better, maybe it is part of their lessons to learn. Probably also part of our lessons to learn, to acknowledge these things are happening and to at least look for and understand the cause, which primarily is psychopathy. I'm not sure if they knew this was going to happen to them, perhaps it is different in each case. Maybe some of them were at the wrong place at the wrong time, maybe some of them learned more about evil in this world by living under occupation for example, it's hard to tell. I think it isn't so much that the Universe allows it to happen, but more that this is part of nature in a way. If you haven't already, I recommend reading this thread that could be helpful: Life experiences represent interaction with "God" and Laura's post here.



Maybe some of them were at the wrong place at the wrong time

I also thought of that, but as Of C's we say, if I remember well and that I do not make error, that we are where we have to be and that there is not a chance, then this idea I put aside him because for me it made too much chance.

Thank you for having taken time to answer and thank you for the link.



J'ai aussi pensé à ça, mais comme les C's on dit, si je me souviens bien et que je ne fais pas d'erreur, qu'on est là où on doit être et qu'il n'y a pas de hasard, alors cet idée je l'ai mis de côté parce que pour moi cela faisait trop de hasards.

Merci d'avoir pris le temps de répondre et merci pour le lien. :flowers:
 
Hi Christine! Since last year, reading some threads and looking my own shortcomings in everyday life, brought answers to why some children go through such atrocities.
Their soul didn't choose it, they don't learn from that. People who have to learn and to act are us, adult people who see. The universe doesn't allow cruelty on children. WE allow it, by our passivity. Universe has now to clean the house because WE, humans, haven't been able to do it! Thus, there will be no distinction between psychopaths and non-psychopaths; the univers will cleanse everybody. We deserve it for our ignorance and our passivity.
There has been so many genocides on Earth during recent history and we (humans) are still in the incapacity to protect our vulnerable ones. We fail in our duty. Examples: genocides in Yemen, in Middle east, Syria, Palestine, Rohingas in India. Previous years: in Lybia, in Soudan. Last century: Zulu in south africa, australian aborigens, Armenia, Jewish in nazi germany. Previously: Native americans, and I certainly ignore many others. So many many genocides!

For the 2nd question, about how Ataturk could have committed such a cruel genocide : what a revealing from my readings! I'm relieved I know truth now, even if it's not beautifull. I'll come back to speak about that.
All my condolences for Armenian people. Turkish politicians will make a big step if they recognize this genocide. There is nothing good in remaining blind or lying to oneself.
 
Their soul didn't choose it, they don't learn from that.

Are you sure that their sould didn't choose that and that they are not learning from that?
If all is lessons, it is a lesson for those children too.

People who have to learn and to act are us, adult people who see.

I think that everyone has to learn at his/her proper rhythm and everyone has his/her lessons and no matter if you are old, young, with a soul...

The universe doesn't allow cruelty on children.
We are part of the universe. The universe "allows" it through our passivity.

I don't think that it is a question that the Universe is allowing or not cruelty on children or that we are allowing it through our passivity or not. Those are lessons that we have to learn in a free world and in this 3d STS reality.

Universe has now to clean the house because WE, humans, haven't been able to do it! Thus, there will be no distinction between psychopaths and non-psychopaths; the univers will cleanse everybody. We deserve it for our ignorance and our passivity.

Are we speaking of cleaning the house like get rid of everything and wipe out everything or are we speaking of cleaning the house like moving things that do not belong in a place to another place and let the things that fits together in the same place.
 
Source: Dutch minister attends Armenian genocide commemorations for first time - DutchNews.nl

Dutch minister attends Armenian genocide commemorations for first time
April 24, 2018

Junior finance minister Menno Snel attended a ceremony to mark the Armenian genocide on behalf the Dutch parliament on Tuesday.

Parliament voted in February almost unanimously in favor or recognizing the killing of 1.5 million Armenians in the dying days of the Ottoman Empire as genocide. Only Denk voted against the motion.

The government then agreed to send a minister to the commemoration of the Armenian genocide in Yerevan, in line with parliament’s wishes, without formally recognizing the genocide as such.

‘By attending the commemoration we are showing our respect for the terrible events done to minorities, in the same way that the government attends the commemoration of the Dutch slavery history,’ Sigrid Kaag said during a debate on the issue.

Snel declined to speak to reporters after the ceremony, broadcaster NOS said (Dutch only), and correspondent Xander van der Wulp said he appeared extremely uneasy.

The Dutch government officially refers to the killings as ‘the question of the Armenian genocide’, rather than outright as genocide.

Further (more extensive) coverage here:

Netherlands at Armenian genocide commemoration

Dutch Parliament recognizes Armenian genocide; Minister to attend commemoration
Turkey lashes out at Netherlands over Armenia slaughter; Cites Srebrenica tragedy
Dutch MPs targeted in Turkish media, threatened after recognizing Armenian Genocide
 
Are you sure that their sould didn't choose that and that they are not learning from that?
If all is lessons, it is a lesson for those children too.
...
Are we speaking of cleaning the house like get rid of everything and wipe out everything or are we speaking of cleaning the house like moving things that do not belong in a place to another place and let the things that fits together in the same place.

Rho... And I thouht I understood, I made sense.
I still have difficulty to imagine it's a lesson for a child. So as to the cleansing, when a climatic devastation occurs, it touches everybody independently of his orientation, psychopath or not. It seems I still have lots to learn. Or you mean I should think about balance that will come after cleansing?
 
About my other ununderstanding on Ataturk ('Young Turks" movement) and genocide: how a modern state, giving rights to women, education to 100% of the population, protection to expelled jewish, etc came to commit genocide?
A sott article and links provided by readers gave responses: Russophobia, the Jewish Lobby and the Armenian holocaust -- Sott.net
The Ottoman Empire was historically a place where Jews could live without fear of persecution [...] Indeed this tolerance extended into the post-Sultan era of the Young Turks, as the Encyclopedia Judaica noted that various Zionist groups were hopeful in 1908 for opportunities to press their interests; "the absence of antisemitism in Turkey made the idea [Jewish settlement in Palestine] possible".21 Talaat {Pasha] specifically was very open to these ideas

This part reminds me on current post-modernism, left-liberal movements that take place today in western countries.
The Young Turks who sought to overthrow him by contrast were revolutionaries. They shouted their slogans of "Hürriyet, Musavat , Uhuvvet" inspired from the French "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" meaning "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity". Turkish ethnicity is often described as a "melting pot" of all Anatolian people ranging from the gene pools of the Balkans, Anatolia, and parts of Asia."18 The Young Turks were also rationalists following a materialist ideologies like positivism which they prioritized over religion; The Islamic authorities the Ulama even denounced them as "trying to change Islam into another form and create a new religion while calling it Islam"

From _The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part I)

The Donmeh sect of Judaism was founded in the 17th century by Rabbi Sabbatai Zevi, a Kabbalist who believed he was the Messiah but was forced to convert to Islam by Sultan Mehmet IV, the Ottoman ruler. Many of the rabbi’s followers, known as Sabbateans, but also “crypto-Jews,” publicly proclaimed their Islamic faith but secretly practiced their hybrid form of Judaism, which was unrecognized by mainstream Jewish rabbinical authorities. Because it was against their beliefs to marry outside their sect, the Dönmeh created a rather secretive sub-societal clan.

After his ouster by Ataturk’s Young Turk Dönmeh in 1908, Abdulhamid II was jailed in the Donmeh citadel of Salonica. He died in Constantinople in 1918, three years after Ibn Saud agreed to a Jewish homeland in Palestine and one year after Lord Balfour deeded Palestine away to the Zionists in his letter to Baron Rothschild.
...
Some texts suggest that the Dönmeh numbered no more than 150,000 and were mainly found in the army, government, and business. However, other experts suggest that the Dönmeh may have represented 1.5 million Turks and were even more powerful than believed by many and extended to every facet of Turkish life. One influential Donmeh, Tevfik Rustu Arak, was a close friend and adviser to Ataturk and served as Turkey’s Foreign Minister from 1925 to 1938.

Ataturk, who was reportedly himself a Dönmeh, ordered that Turks abandon their own Muslim-Arabic names. The name of the first Christian emperor of Rome, Constantine, was erased from the largest Turkish city, Constantinople. The city became Istanbul, after the Ataturk government in 1923 objected to the traditional name. There have been many questions about Ataturk’s own name, since “Mustapha Kemal Ataturk” was a pseudonym. Some historians have suggested that Ataturk adopted his name because he was a descendant of none other than Rabbi Zevi, the self-proclaimed Messiah of the Dönmeh! Ataturk also abolished Turkey’s use of the Arabic script and forced the country to adopt the western alphabet.
...
Modern Turkey: a secret Zionist state controlled by the Dönmeh.
...
However, more evidence is being uncovered that the Armenian genocide was largely the work of the Dönmeh leadership of the Young Turks. Historians like Ahmed Refik, who served as an intelligence officer in the Ottoman army, averred that it was the aim of the Young Turks to destroy the Armenians, who were mostly Christian. The Young Turks, under Ataturk’s direction, also expelled Greek Christians from Turkish cities and attempted to commit a smaller-scale genocide of the Assyrians, who were also mainly Christian.
...
Knowledge that it was Dönmeh, in a natural alliance with the Zionists of Europe, who were responsible for the deaths of Armenian and Assyrian Christians, expulsion from Turkey of Greek Orthodox Christians, and the cultural and religious eradication of Turkish Islamic traditions, would issue forth in the region a new reality.

More here: _
The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part II)

What will surprise those who may already be surprised about the Dönmeh connection to Turkey, is the Dönmeh connection to the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia.
...
Two years later, British Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour, in a letter to Baron Walter Rothschild, a leader of the British Zionists, stated: “His Majesty’s government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people . . .” The deal had the tacit backing of two of the major players in the region, both descendant from Dönmeh Jews who supported the Zionist cause, Kemal Ataturk and Ibn Saud. The present situation in the Middle East should be seen in this light but the history of the region has been purged by certain religious and political interests for obvious reasons.

The Wahhabi Sauds accomplished what the Kemalist Dönmeh were able to achieve in Turkey: a fractured Middle East that was ripe for Western imperialistic designs and laid the groundwork for the creation of the Zionist state of Israel.

Dönmeh doctrine is rife with references to the Old Testament Amalekites, a nomadic tribe ordered attacked by the Hebrews from Egypt by the Jewish God to make room for Moses’s followers in the southern region of Palestine. In the Book of Judges, God unsuccessfully commands Saul: “Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, and infant, ox, and sheep, camel and donkey.” The Dönmeh, whose doctrine is also present in Hasidic and other orthodox sects of Judaism, appear to have no problem substituting the Armenians, Assyrians, Turks, Kurds, Egyptians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Iranians, and Palestinians for the Amalekites in carrying out their military assaults and pogroms.
...
With new freedom in Turkey and Egypt to examine their pasts, there is more reason for Israel and its supporters, as well as the Sauds, to suppress the true histories of the Ottoman Empire, secular Turkey, the origins of Israel, and the House of Saud. With various players now angling for war with Iran, the true history of the Dönmeh and their influence on past and current events in the Middle East becomes more important.
With this knowledge, I understand better what is undergoing in the Middle East. And with the light shed by the Cs about semites, I can now understand the agenda since centuries: destruction of semitic peoples.
 
Are you sure that their sould didn't choose that and that they are not learning from that?
If all is lessons, it is a lesson for those children too.
If that's so, then the most heinous acts committed against children would suggest psychopaths are, by extension, in the grand scheme of things necessary 'Teachers of Evil' deliberately created in mind by 7D specifically tasked for required destiny-profiling - conjured through much needed lessons learned.

I don't think that it is a question that the Universe is allowing or not cruelty on children or that we are allowing it through our passivity or not
I was being rather passive myself. I'd say it goes much further than simply "allowing" such cruelty (through 'our' passivity or not) and goes further still such those lessons in need of dire learning... For I'd have to say: The 'Universe' actively engages through conscious deliberation such cruelty against even the most precious of purest innocence - in fact especially the most precious of purest innocence - all for the sake of 'Cosmic Balance'.
For every lofty STO attainment achieved... Deepest darkest STS depravity counter-balances. That seems to be how it works from what I understand in my limited 3D STS perception.
 
About my other ununderstanding on Ataturk ('Young Turks" movement) and genocide: how a modern state, giving rights to women, education to 100% of the population, protection to expelled jewish, etc came to commit genocide?

A sott article and links provided by readers gave responses: Russophobia, the Jewish Lobby and the Armenian holocaust -- Sott.net

This part reminds me on current post-modernism, left-liberal movements that take place today in western countries.

From _The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part I)

More here: _
The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part II)

With this knowledge, I understand better what is undergoing in the Middle East. And with the light shed by the Cs about semites, I can now understand the agenda since centuries: destruction of semitic peoples

The Dönmeh is also mentioned in this thread: Slavoj Žižek: Is something rotten in the state of Turkey?

Slavoj Žižek: Is something rotten in the state of Turkey?


22 April، 2016 - Prayers and candle procession in Damascus to mark anniversary of Armenian genocide
https://sana.sy/en/?p=75348

Prayers were held on Friday at the Armenian Orthodox Diocese of Damascus in Bab Sharqi area in Damascus to mark the 101st anniversary of the Armenian genocide carried out by the Ottomans which claimed the lives of over 1.5 million people.


Photos of People laying flowers at the Tsitsernakaberd Memorial, on April 24, 2015 in Yerevan, as part of the Armenian genocide centenary commemoration.
Syrian Armenians mark "genocide" anniversary - Xinhua | English.news.cn
 
So as to the cleansing, when a climatic devastation occurs, it touches everybody independently of his orientation, psychopath or not.

Yes it does. However, those that are ready for a new reality, might have the opportunity to move along and those who still like/love this reality will probably stay in it.

Or you mean I should think about balance that will come after cleansing?

No I was not speaking about that.
 
If that's so, then the most heinous acts committed against children would suggest psychopaths are, by extension, in the grand scheme of things necessary 'Teachers of Evil' deliberately created in mind by 7D specifically tasked for required destiny-profiling - conjured through much needed lessons learned.

I would not say that that way but rather that the Universe, since it is a free will Universe, let the evolution goes as it chooses to develop without inteferring.

Would you say that tigers, lions are evils because they eat sheeps, gazelles... It is in their nature to do so. We don't have to kill them because of that but knowing that they act like that, we have to stay out of their way when they are hungry. For these creatures, it is in them to be like that and they follow their path of evolution up to the point they will be ready to graduate to another kind of level/lessons.

fwiw
 
I would not say that that way but rather that the Universe, since it is a free will Universe, let the evolution goes as it chooses to develop without inteferring.

Would you say that tigers, lions are evils because they eat sheeps, gazelles... It is in their nature to do so. We don't have to kill them because of that but knowing that they act like that, we have to stay out of their way when they are hungry. For these creatures, it is in them to be like that and they follow their path of evolution up to the point they will be ready to graduate to another kind of level/lessons.

fwiw
Ok, so where does nature end and free-will begin? To determine that, we can then determine 'Evil'.
 
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