Articles on SOTT besmearing Poland

[Kasia]

As for the Polish-Jewish relations throughout history, you can take a look at the book below, if you really want to get to know more closely objective data in this matter based mainly on the Jewish sources:

https://www.amazon.com/Polish-Jewish-Relations-1939-1945-Beyond-solidarity-ebook/dp/B008ZXNQCS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1469864477&sr=8-2&keywords=kurek+ewa#nav-subnav

As for sort of alternative, perhaps not ideal, but undoubtedly much more objective look at the Poland's today situation, you can glance through these pieces:

http://youngvoicesadvocates.com/author/matthew-tyrmand/

 

[Keit]

I urge you to use your critical thinking and to look for more accurate facts and articles otherwise the credibility of SOTT will dive soon drastically.

Kasia, you demand SOTT crew to "use critical thinking", while you can't follow a simple request. Please post links to stories that you see as full of lies and slurs.

 

[Joe]

I just want you to know that promoting articles containing such lies and slurs about Poland (listed in my first post), you are supporting those who haven’t the Polish people’s wellbeing at heart, who shamelessly spit nonsensical, deceitful propaganda about Poland to guard interests of foreign forces, adversely oriented towards the Poles and as a result you are unconsciously getting manipulated.

I don't want to sound repetitive, but

There is nothing in that article that says anything like you cite in your first post here.

 

[Joe]

I urge you to use your critical thinking and to look for more accurate facts and articles otherwise the credibility of SOTT will dive soon drastically.

Other people have made similar dramatic comments to us when they came across an article they didn't agree with. It seems a bit hyperbolic to claim that, just because you don't agree with some articles on Sott, the entire site loses credibility in the eyes of the millions of Sott readers.

 

[luc]

Kasia, it might be a good exercise for you to replace the word "Poland" or "Polish" in the articles you refer to with "Romania" or "Hungary", and pretend they talk about those countries instead of Poland. Then, ask yourself the question why you have such a problem when people say things about "your" nation. After all, it's just coincidence in which nation we are born, yes? We are all humans, and national borders are just the historic result of power plays between different groups (mostly pathological), don't you think?

It seems to me that you are emotionally charged and feel that "your" nation is insulted. But maybe I'm wrong, in which case you could just provide links to several articles on sott and quote the parts that support your initial statement. Only then can we have a discussion about facts and where sott's stance might or might not be wrong regarding the situation in Poland.

 

[Kasia]

I just want you to know that promoting articles containing such lies and slurs about Poland (listed in my first post), you are supporting those who haven’t the Polish people’s wellbeing at heart, who shamelessly spit nonsensical, deceitful propaganda about Poland to guard interests of foreign forces, adversely oriented towards the Poles and as a result you are unconsciously getting manipulated.

I don't want to sound repetitive, but

There is nothing in that article that says anything like you cite in your first post here.

Really?

https://www.sott.net/article/323481-Chris-Hedges-The-new-European-fascists#comment162177

“Government leaders in Poland are promoting a neofascist ideology”

“They built Gazeta Wyborcza, now one of the most influential newspapers in the country, after the 1989 fall of communism. They helped usher in a period of democracy and open debate, one that included cultural space for historians such as Jan Gross, a Polish-born American who courageously confronted the taboo topic of Polish complicity in the Nazi extermination of nearly all of Poland's 3 million Jews”.

“The Constitutional Court and judiciary are paralyzed. New laws passed by the parliament cannot be challenged or changed. The government is supposed to publish sentences of the Constitutional Court in The Journal of Laws [Dziennik Ustaw] for them to become legally effective. This is required by the Constitution. But the government, by not printing them, paralyzes the Constitutional Court […]”

“Poland has established 11 intelligence agencies—to crush dissent. They seek their identity in a terrifying new nationalism, often, as in Poland, coupled with a right-wing Catholicism. They preach hatred of the outsider and glorification of obedient and "true" patriots.”

“The ruling party in Poland employs rhetoric to describe Muslim immigrants that echoes prewar Polish anti-Semitism. Immigrants are condemned as diseased, painted as rapists and excoriated for supposedly having barbaric religious practices”

“When Gross, who teaches at Princeton University, decried the hate campaign against immigrants and made the links with anti-Semitism, reminding Poles that they killed more Jews than they killed Germans during the war, PiS began legal proceedings to challenge Gross' assertions and called for his Polish Order of Merit to be revoked”

“Chauvinism defines public discourse”.

“The Warsaw Rising Museum […] does not acknowledge Polish anti-Semitic crimes”.

The museum was in part a reaction to Gross' book Neighbors, published in 2000 in Poland. It told the story of Catholic Poles in the town of Jedwabne who on July 10, 1941, murdered their Jewish neighbors. The number of dead, including women and children, slaughtered with clubs, knives and axes or burned alive, was in the hundreds. And there were dozens of similar massacres of Jews by their Polish neighbors”

"Jewish citizens were treated by Catholic Poles as foreign elements, if not outright enemies," said Elzbieta Janicka, a cultural anthropologist and author at the Institute of Slavic Studies, Polish Academy of Sciences. "Polish majority stances and behaviors proved to be an important factor within the German machinery of extermination. Sealing it, they made the extermination complete and irrevocable."

https://www.sott.net/article/319503-Polish-regime-installs-US-missile-bases-celebrates-Nazism-persecutes-public-dissent-left-wing-conspiracy-directed-by-Kremlin

By the way, original title is: “While Installing NATO Missiles, Polish Regime Crushes Dissent”

http://journal-neo.org/2016/05/30/while-installing-nato-missiles-polish-regime-crushes-dissent/

You’ve added: “celebrates Nazism”

“The "Law and Justice Party" which leads Poland is leading the crackdown on Communists, leftists, and Pan-Slavists while at the same time allowing Neo-Nazis and other fascists to operate openly”.

While Communists and Pan-Slavists are forced into the shadows, 400 Neo-Nazis paraded through the streets on April 13th in a public rally.

https://www.rt.com/news/326552-poland-government-protest-court/

“The rally was organized by the Committee for the Defense of Democracy movement (KOD) via social networks and was supported by all major opposition parties with some politicians, including a former Polish foreign minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, who attended the demonstration”.

 

[Laura]

Dear all, I’m not going to comment on such outlandish statements as for instance:

“This is an excellent article with a good summary of the current situation. Highly recommended - it deserves wider distribution” by adam7117.

I’ve already given my personal perspective what’s against Poland in the article in my first post. I've also pointed out which Polish daily rabidly smears Poland which then is cited in the western mainstream media and sometimes in the Russian.

I don’t want to convince anyone to follow my request. You have your own reason, free will and the same access to information as I do. I just want you to know that promoting articles containing such lies and slurs about Poland (listed in my first post), you are supporting those who haven’t the Polish people’s wellbeing at heart, who shamelessly spit nonsensical, deceitful propaganda about Poland to guard interests of foreign forces, adversely oriented towards the Poles and as a result you are unconsciously getting manipulated.

Be critical and open-minded. That is all.

Kasia, I'm pretty astonished at your remarks. Keep in mind, I live with two Poles, both of whom have long and deep experience with the Polish political system both personally, and now, at a distance. Ark watches Polish news most days and reads political stuff regularly. He was also active as a political dissident back when he was teaching at University of Wroclaw. So, believe me, he is not naive.

What you are saying pretty much reveals a serious sacred cow. I would suggest you wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late.

ADDED: It seems to me that nobody has to make much effort to "besmear" Poland these days. The gov is doing a bang up job of acting like fascist retards all on their own. If you are saying you are one of them, then so be it.

 

[Joe]

historians such as Jan Gross, a Polish-born American who courageously confronted the taboo topic of Polish complicity in the Nazi extermination of nearly all of Poland's 3 million Jews”.

What's wrong with confronting something that people would rather not look at? It seems reasonable that some Poles fell prey to anti-semitism.

“The Constitutional Court and judiciary are paralyzed. But the government, by not printing them, paralyzes the Constitutional Court

Again, this is probably true, as it is in most EU nations.

[/b]“Poland has established 11 intelligence agencies—to crush dissent. They seek their identity in a terrifying new nationalism

Poland has established 11 intelligence agencies. What do you think intelligence agencies do?

“The ruling party in Poland employs rhetoric to describe Muslim immigrants that echoes prewar Polish anti-Semitism. Immigrants are condemned as diseased, painted as rapists and excoriated for supposedly having barbaric religious practices”

This is also true.

“When Gross, who teaches at Princeton University, decried the hate campaign against immigrants and made the links with anti-Semitism, reminding Poles that they killed more Jews than they killed Germans during the war

Up to 10,000 Poles were tried during and after the war by Polish underground courts for assisting the enemy, and 2,500 were executed.

“The Warsaw Rising Museum […] does not acknowledge Polish anti-Semitic crimes”.

I'm sure it doesn't, which is understandable.

The museum was in part a reaction to Gross' book Neighbors, published in 2000 in Poland. It told the story of Catholic Poles in the town of Jedwabne who on July 10, 1941, murdered their Jewish neighbors.

According to the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, a group of 23 Polish males was involved in the pogrom.

 

[Niall]

https://www.sott.net/article/323481-Chris-Hedges-The-new-European-fascists#comment162177

“Government leaders in Poland are promoting a neofascist ideology”

What's interesting about this particular article is that the Polish government made a big stink about it because they thought the author, as a former NYT journalist, and now with RT, was 'a big deal'. Hedges isn't really; he's a (relatively) fringe figure in the US and internationally.

So the Polish elite took offense ("at the drop of a hat", as Lobaczewski would say), then Kasia took offense on their behalf. I wrote this to her about another article she took offense at in June:

Olimpia [aka Kasia], you perceived the article as personal criticism against you ("...that we in Poland are celebrating..."). This is what I was talking about earlier when I suggested that your 'nationalism' - your identification with, or attachment to, the regime, no matter how much you say you dislike it - blinds you from seeing clearly.

 

[Kasia]

"The gov is doing a bang up job of acting like fascist retards all on their own. If you are saying you one of them, then so be it".

"What you are saying pretty much reveals a serious sacred cow"

"This is what I was talking about earlier when I suggested that your 'nationalism' - your identification with, or attachment to, the regime, no matter how much you say you dislike it - blinds you from seeing clearly".

I'm just speechless. You are totally missing the point. If you seriously think I'm a "sacred cow" "attached" to the Polish "regime" and a "fascist retard" (!) as they are, I can just feel sorry for you. God bless you, guys and let you heal you from your blindess. You are focusing only on these "fascist retards", completely ignoring the opposite, totally evil, side, to which I have been trying to catch your attention. It has been my only intention. Bye.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I have seen from some time your efforts to trying "smooth" ruling party, a bit like you would say "this wolf is not so predatory" or "oh get him here to defend us before wild dogs". But this is wild animal and it can attack you.

Exactly I do not understand your accusations about be under influence of the "Wyborcza" propaganda or something. I do not care about Tusk, TVN etc. You are on the Forum CASSIOPAEA!

This what you believe on is just different shapes of the same (black) color to divert your attention, it is something called "Matrix". Those people are not capable to any creative activity. They are coping from western government or are inspired directly through 4DSTS.

You have dealing with psychopaty which is tries to enter your life. It doesn't really matter whether it is Tusk or Duda.

I am happy with the fact that you are one of those people who have their own thought and not just passively read SOTT etc. And it's not just matter of SOTT, but generally, such people are valuable. You should to know that on that other side are people who want truth just like you, at least I am assuming it. So it's not the exit from the situation through attitude: "I want to say something to you and your are not want to see this, and your to closed, and blind". It will not working. You have to be patient.

As I see SOTT (and Polish Pracownia4) are generally dynamic and responds to the public, the readers. So it is also possible, taking into account other priorities and affairs, that somewhere between published articles will appear some articles, to help you and people who have similiar view, gain better look on the topic, however nothing happen beside your commitment.

As I see also, there is some misunderstanding between you. You Kasia show acts of current government like some antidote to the previous power, but you should know that from above, for those who read you and who counting into account those information about psychopaty in position of power, ponerology, you look like supporter of the another pathology, even if your intentions are positive.

I understood that mainly, you try to appoint that current government cleans filthiness after previous government. Maybe yes maybe no, it is not easy to say. But what is apparent is that that they use it as the narration to introduce their own rules saying that they are repair country after last government. In fact they are not repair or clean, they have now the power from the people and do what they want to do, without sake on law, people etc. Oh, maybe just those people who support them. The cleaning after last government can be perceived as result, but it is just a side effect of the that they do what they like to do with their power.

Well, I wrote my first post in this thread because I knew that it finish like that... I hope that Kasia will stay here and reload all the information about pathology and psychopathy, and will see that it is mistake to support any government in this time, because it is like: "a drowning man clutches at straws"

I can understand Kasia, becuase it is hard to see this from the perspective of the Pole and Polish citizen... "The darkest place is under the candlestick."

Regards the article. Summarising, the Polish government is fascist, they want power and power over the people and as they have more power they will more do in their interest.

 

[luc]

I'm just speechless. You are totally missing the point. If you seriously think I'm a "sacred cow" "attached" to the Polish "regime" and a "fascist retard" (!) as they are, I can just feel sorry for you. God bless you, guys and let you heal you from your blindess. You are focusing only on these "fascist retards", completely ignoring the opposite, totally evil, side, to which I have been trying to catch your attention. It has been my only intention. Bye.

Just a note that no one said you are a "sacred cow", but that you have a "sacred cow". From CassWiki:

Sacred Cow

In the FotCM slang, a sacred cow refers to a tightly held belief with which one is identified.

Questioning the belief will be seen as questioning the holder of the belief and is often taken as a personal attack. Oftentimes, the more the sacred cow is at odds with reality, the more ferociously the believer will cling to it.

 

[Laura]

"The gov is doing a bang up job of acting like fascist retards all on their own. If you are saying you one of them, then so be it".

"What you are saying pretty much reveals a serious sacred cow"

"This is what I was talking about earlier when I suggested that your 'nationalism' - your identification with, or attachment to, the regime, no matter how much you say you dislike it - blinds you from seeing clearly".

I'm just speechless. You are totally missing the point. If you seriously think I'm a "sacred cow" "attached" to the Polish "regime" and a "fascist retard" (!) as they are, I can just feel sorry for you. God bless you, guys and let you heal you from your blindess. You are focusing only on these "fascist retards", completely ignoring the opposite, totally evil, side, to which I have been trying to catch your attention. It has been my only intention. Bye.

Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

 

[taratai]

Dear Kasia, i notice you have a very unhealthy obsession with Gazeta Wyborcza. Once again you accuse those that don't agree with you of being under their influence, as if that's the only way they could get to think that. Is the world really so small?...

I'm just speechless. You are totally missing the point. If you seriously think I'm a "sacred cow" "attached" to the Polish "regime" and a "fascist retard" (!) as they are, I can just feel sorry for you.

You know, those that want to feel offended will always find a reason to get offended. And, as others pointed out, you completely missed the point (ahaha! gotcha! ;D ) of what was being told to you.
So, maybe you're the one that you should be sorry for.

God bless you, guys and let you heal you from your blindess.

Oh, a Savior, trying to save us from our ignorance. How nice of the Universe, to send one, just for us. Thank you, good lady. Or girl. Sorry, i don't know your age.

You know, though... funny thing... but i noticed that people trying to "save" me... or "enlighten" me... assume that i am an idiot, and that i don't understand what i'm doing. Sure, i have this THE BIGGEST IDIOT IN THE WORLD thing written on my profile, but it's not really nice to think that about people, don't you think?

Hmm... and what if... someone would think that way about you? What if the GW folks would try to "save" you from your "ignorance"? Would you like that? I bet you wouldn't. And I bet they would love to try anyway, because they, just like you, also think they know better.
I've seen it many times. Pro-GW and Anti-GW crowds, thinking they can outargue eachother, trying to "enlighten" the other side, "correct their wrong ways", and creating utter mayhem in the process. Seeing completely nothing outside of their Pro-GW vs Anti-GW world.

They love it, though, because it's good to have an enemy you can hate and blame for, when you face something you don't understand. Makes life much easier.

You are focusing only on these "fascist retards", completely ignoring the opposite, totally evil, side, to which I have been trying to catch your attention. It has been my only intention.

But you're right. They are not fascists. They are neo bolsheviks, mentally still in the communist era, which is actually ironic, considering how blindly they hate Russia, anything communist, and accuse everyone they don't like of conspiring against them (and that still didn't prevent them from accepting ex-communist party members from joining their party, when they sworn their undying loyalty to the leader...).

Actually, could be said about the entire polish "elite" class and most politicians, no matter which party. But i guess you won't notice this remark of mine, and call me pro-GW too. :(

Bye.

I don't hate you. :(

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I would like to add some words.

The current government dominated by PiS rhetoric is very dangerous. They narrow the free speech and thinking, using the former government as the scapegoat. They show the problems in Poland as misbehaviour of previous power (what help them is the discontent of the nation) and show themselves as a new hope to the Polish people. Their supporters naming opponents as traitors, Germans, Russians etc

The thinking of people is inspired to think in such patterns like "if you are not for PiS, you are not real Pole, you have some connections to the foreign powers". It reminds me how it was in the past, there were "Jews", "Communist", if you are not on the "right" side, you are an enemy.

PiS - Law and Justice. OMG really? After 1991 they have the less respect for law among those parties who rule in time of III Rzeczpospolita... Or maybe I missed something I do not know, maybe it was worse at some times, nevermind.

In Poland, Minister of National Defence, is guy at the level of Donald Trump - N A T I O N A L D E F E N C E - it's almost strong to believe. He has groundlessly for years without any embarrassment accused different people of crimes, breaking law etc. He accuse about catastrophe in Smolensk almost everybody. As I am reading now he had to go to Pope at WYD to "introduce and explain some things to Pope about the plane catastrophe".

In my opinion, he should be on the observation somewhere in the hospital, and he occupy important position in government. This what is going on in this country is like a satire. If it would not be danger it would be just funny.

What else, current governement is much supporter of Catholic Church. Church bigwigs go for power with party. When we look at the history Church often collaborated with despotic governments.

I tell you. With new power, this country step by step remind Nazi Germany in 1930s. I want to warn everybody, in particular Polish people who can read this. PiS, Duda is worse then previous power and lead our country to the new a'la neo-Nazi state. Poland is not now neo-nazi but is on the road to this.

It really looks bad. For some disengagement from this darkness and little fun, I share a little "poem" which I found on the net, for those who read in Polish:

To co miało być w ruinie, Właśnie padło na kolana.
Pozmieniamy tutaj wszystko, I niech naród się nie łudzi,
Gdzie się przeprowadzi czystki ,Tam umieści własnych ludzi.

Każdy zarząd ,każda rada, Posmakuje naszej zmiany,
Każdy nie PIS-owy prezes, Dziś zostanie wyj…y .
Te Araby, te z Janowa, Wymienimy na kucyka,
Wyhoduje się Kasztankę, Dla naszego Naczelnika.

Sąd, Trybunał, służby wszelkie ,Zawłaszczymy–któż nam broni
Dochodzenia, śledztwa wielkie, Nikt lewaka nie uchroni.
Nasza armia narodowa, A Antoni na jej czele,
Sieje postrach w całym świecie, Wrogów kraju jest wszak wiele.

Poległego pomnik stanie, W każdej wsi i każdym mieście ,
Z polecenia Naczelnika, Sterczącego na podeście.
Podniesione krótkie rączki, Z małych ust się toczy piana
Tłum dostaje już gorączki -damy radę ,dobra zmiana-

I co miesiąc te rocznice, Duch w moherach nie zaginie,
Zablokujmy dziś stolicę, A nasz wodzu na drabinie.
Wrogiem każdy kto nie z nami, I ten młody i ten w futrze,
Pojedziemy z KODziarzami, Dni ich są już coraz krótsze.

Niech zamilkną przeciwnicy, I weganie i cykliści,
My rządzimy na ulicy, Sen prezesa niech się ziści.
No i na nic te protesty, Niech komisja się nie ciska,
Wszystkich, którzy mówią sprzeciw, Będziem zdrowo lać po pyskach.

Taka nasza dobra zmiana, Dobra, bo dla PISu ludzi
Polska będzie rozj…a, Zanim naród się obudzi.