RflctnOfU said:
bozadi, there is a wonderful little booklet titled "The Practice of Astrology" by Dane Rudhyar, here: _http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/pofa/pofa_tc.shtml
I think ths might help in your analyses/searching on this topic (as well as a thorough familiarity with G's teaching [ISOTM - Ouspensky, the Teachings of Gurdjieff - C. S. Nott, The All and Everything series by Gurdjieff (Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson...Meetings with Remarkable Men...Life is Real, Only Then, When "I" Am, Herald of Coming Good)] and other memoirs of his students).
If I may offer my observations based on what you have written. It seems as though you are very much in the thinking center. I have gone through this myself...it is a good place to start. However, it has been my experience that understanding comes when this teaching is felt. After direct experience, 'seeing' the "third force" is much 'easier', as it were. There are some very nice suggestions in ISOTM for physical exercises that can lead the way to an experience of the "third force".
Kris
Thanks for sharing the reference and observation, Kris, duly noted.
Teragon said:
On the subject of the third force, and I don't know if it's necessarily related, but I came across this in reference to "the Fall":
Laura said:
A: Combination of factors. Numerous souls desired physical existence then was altered by three forces including principally Lizards through Grays, Nephalim and Orion union.
Q: (L) Let's go back to the three forces. You said numerous souls desired physical existence. When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence come to be?
A: First was apelike.
It's not exactly clear what the "three forces" are nor is the subject brought up there again, but maybe it's some kind of clue?
I'm not sure, Teragon. It first appears to be irrelevant with the "third force" issue but maybe it is a general clue about trinities occurring all around our 3D life conditions.
I want to share a few notes about the Cancer-Capricorn axis. Corresponding to 4D, I believe that the Cancer-Capricorn polarity also has a very important correspondence or reflection in 3D for advancing towards spiritual maturity. As usual, I will roughly try to express whatever comes to my mind at the moment and I believe that, by time, the same can be clarified much more.
There is again that parallelism with the first polarity. Cancer is more Aries like while Capricorn is more Libra like. Although each one of the signs in these polarities has their own merit and an essential function, there is always a kind of evolution from the first sign of the polarity towards the second. Or, rather than evolution, it might be a gradual balancing and blending of the first with the second. For instance, Aries portrays what or how a person or entity is like in the beginning of a natural and long process while Libra portrays how it is like when the process is completed. At first, one is excited, nervous, passionate, full of energy, challenging, eager to try, likely to make many errors. As the person gets more and more experience and knowledge, Arian conditions will gradually give way to Libran ones; having a good command, being calmer, wiser, helpful, guiding etc. Both Arian and Libran experiences can be gained in a more positive or negative way depending on the situation and also on STO and STS orientations. This is a matter of balance and the need of balance applies for Libra, too. So, a Libran function not sufficiently balanced with Arian features will lack vitality, strength, freshness, excitement, etc. The same applies for all polarities of signs. And both Arian and Libran experiences are on-going. One's experience is more Libra-like in one situation or field and more Arian-like in another.
Ra says the 4D is the Density of Love (and/or Understanding). And we know that the 4th chakra is closely related to heart. So, I believe the Cancer-Capricorn polarity is also about this, somehow. Many astrology sources associate Cancer with emotions, family, mother, empathy, home, protection, care, nursing, feeding, etc. And the Cancer-Capricorn pair is described as the Mother-Father pair in a certain sense. The mother archetype might be representing unconditional love while the father archetype is somewhat conditional. It might be that the mother gives fish and the father instructs how to fish, in this specific context of representation. Both is necessary depending on the situation. But there can be many layers of inference. I think it is also possible, in a certain sense, to associate Cancer with subjectivism, localism, childhood and apprenticeship, and Capricorn with objectivism, universalism, parenthood/adulthood and mastership.
Such comparisons that I make between the first and the second signs of astro-polarities are not necessarily a bad & good relationship in terms of either performance or ethics. They are all part of a balance, all are natural and necessary. These astrological interpretations or inferences are cosmologic/collective in nature, not personal. A person's sun sign, moon sign, ascendant etc. can be in this or that sign. An astro profile includes many planets and other variables in various signs with certain aspects/interactions among them. It is a really complicated picture and despite all this sophistication and regardless of any astro planet/point being in "any" certain sign/position, etc., the chart, let alone any specific sign, cannot by itself tell how advance a person spiritually is. A horoscope chart is a certain body/garment/tool that will be used by a soul, it can tell about many behavioral/reactive patterns and possible related conditions that a soul will be likely to experience but CANNOT tell how advance that soul actually is, or if that soul is or will be more STO- or STS-oriented, or if that soul is really a soul or an OP (not really individuated/souled yet). Believe me, I repeat, an astrological chart, whatever configuration of signs it displays, CANNOT tell these. So, never take it too seriously, because it (astrology) is not THAT omniscient. In disincarnation, the astro body/garment is also removed and a completely new one probably with a very different configuration will be obtained depending on the conditions, plans and necessities of the new incarnation. Your astro chart doesn't and can't hold the track of your spiritual progression, it cannot measure that. This is beyond astrology's depth despite all that sophistication! A person with certain planets or other astro-variables in the "first" signs (which are the first six signs of astrology, Aries through Virgo) of the polarities I describe can be in need of experiencing the functions of those signs just because this will "balance" an imbalance in the "second" signs of the polarities either in the current or in a previous incarnation, or even because the person needs to experience those functions in order to be able to inspire or help others regarding those functions. This is such a complex issue. So, never worry like, "Oh, my sun (or moon or ascendant, or any other astro variable) is in the first sign of the polarity, so I'm underdeveloped in that function or in general." It is not that simple. One might need to experience that function for very different and complicated reasons.
To continue with the Cancer-Capricorn polarity… Cancer, without sufficient balancing by Capricorn, will seek immediate/fast solutions to needs/problems without much caring about if the solution is optimal/permanent or not in the long term. It is like satisfying a hunger immediately and/or arbitrarily without any certain diet discipline, for instance. Capricorn is much about discipline and mastery but if, conversely, it is not balanced by Cancer, then it will be over-disciplined, over-judgmental and even cruel in extreme situations. The need of balance is not one-way, it's always bidirectional between the first and the second sign of a polarity. Imbalance can occur in any one of them and will eventually be reflected in both of them if it goes unsolved.
Ra and the C's refer to a corruption that humanity experienced, which resulted in the "fall." Just like the C's, Ra says that before the fall (before the "veiling", in Ra's terms), humanity was 3D STO in an ethereal realm, and Ra tells regarding the reason of the fall that it was a freely granted STO condition and that, with a full awareness of the connection to the unified being, with any of their needs met and without any fear, humanity was spoiled, they didn't have a strong urge to advance from 3D to 4D, they didn't do their homework. They repeated the 3D cycle again and again. It seems that humanity placed itself in a very awkward position and the guiding authorities decided that the only solution was introduce the STS option in connection with physical -as opposed to ethereal- 3D realm experience. I'm not sure but, maybe, if it not for our "alignment" with the Lizzies at the beginning of the falling, we wouldn't have such a problematic 3D STS process, but maybe we would anyway, and maybe our dance with the Lizzies accelerated a long term result, I don't know.
Between 3D and 4D… The Gem-Sag and Can-Cap polarities. The C's say the pre-fall humanity's realm was "more like 4D". So, I believe the Can-Cap polarity is very much related to that situation. And what is described by the C's and Ra about the process of fall is already very compatible with the specific themes of the Can-Cap axis. Capricorn is, as I described above, all about work, discipline, responsibility and mastery, and it is clearly understood from the C's and especially Ra's descriptions that humanity fell because it lacked these specific Capricornian qualities. With an excess of Cancer function, not balanced by Capricorn, they were too much accustomed to be fed and supported by the granted STO conditions. They didn't sufficiently want to work, take responsibility, grow and progress. They didn't really love each other except for pleasure-seeking. And it seems they eventually attracted victimization. Now, a majority of people work for very long hours in very bad conditions. But it doesn't seem like they have managed to balance their excessive Cancerian function with the Capricornian one by this "hardworking". Most of them don't really assume the responsibility of their own life. They generally tend to remain as minors and submit to the care of the psychopathic majors that usurp the authority of God and the State to determine minors' needs and receivables, and the meaning and worth of their lives.
Q: (J) Go back to what they said before: "Free will could not be abridged if you had not obliged." (T) We, as the human race, used our free will to switch from STO to STS. (L) So, at some level we have chosen the mess we are in and that is the Super Ancient Legend of the Fallen Angel, Lucifer. That is us. We fell by falling into that door, so to speak, going after the pot of gold, and when we fell through the door, the serpent bit us!
A: But this is a repeating syndrome.
Q: (L) Is it a repeating syndrome just for the human race or is it a repeating syndrome throughout all of creation?
A: It is the latter.
Q: (L) Is this a repeating syndrome throughout all of creation simply because it is the cyclic nature of things? Or is it as the Indians call it, Maya?
A: Either or.
This part especially attracted my attention. I thought about it and inferred that, maybe, those soul groups which start in a granted STO realm, like our humanity did, face a certain critical test between 3D and 4D. You now, graduation to 4D STO seems to make the STO orientation kind of irreversible. It seems to be great test. And I suspect that the cosmological area of transition from 3D to 4D is where the "repeating syndrome" that the C's refer to might ordinarily be taking place. And I noticed a potentially interesting correlation between this idea and the zodiac chart.
This is the default sequence/positioning of signs in the zodiac chart. As I listed previously, I assume that the polarity of Gemini (3rd sign) and Sagittarius (9th sign) corresponds to 3D while the polarity of Cancer (4th sign) and Capricorn (10th sign) corresponds to 4D. And in the default zodiac chart, the transition from the 3rd to the 4th sign (from Gemini to Cancer) happens on the point/cusp named IC (Imum Coeli, Latin for "bottom of the sky"), which seems to be a suitable position to connote a "fall". And, inversely, the transition between their polar signs, from Sagittarius to Capricorn, occurs on the point named MC (Medium Coeli, Latin for "medium of the sky), also named "Midheaven". This seemed like a very interesting coincidence to me. There is another thing that makes it even more interesting or meaningful to me. As you can see in the chart, the "first" signs of the six polarities beginning with Aries and ending with Virgo are lined in the "bottom" half of the default zodiac chart. This half is taken to signify "subjectivity" in astrology, along with some other related characteristics, and this is already a suitable approach with the correlation that I notice with those signs in general. And the upper half of the chart beginning with Libra and ending with Pisces is considered to signify "objectivity". And, in terms of "elements", the air and the fire elements are considered to be harmonious/complementary between themselves, just like the water and earth elements are between themselves. And, as far as I know, the air element is considered to be higher (or more evolved, maybe) than fire, just like water is considered to be higher than earth. And two of the three air signs and two of the three water signs are placed in the "upper" half of the chart. Only one air sign and one water sign are placed in the lower half; Gemini and Cancer. And with an inverse symmetry, only one earth sign and one fire sign are located in the upper half; Sagittarius and Capricorn. Another coincidence, which is probably competely coincidental, that attracted my attention is that the Latin phrase, "Ora et Labora" (Pray and Work) happens to make a certain formulation of the Sagittarian and Capricornian functions in sequence.
There are many interesting references that the C's make to various planets upon various questions in the sessions. Moon (an astrological "planet", like Sun also is), Jupiter, Saturn are also included. C's seem to make a generally negative reference to the Moon. And there is also the issue of "Food for the Moon". I believe this is closely, but not exclusively, related to the Cancerian problems of humanity that I mentioned and I think this problem of humanity is exploited by the PTB at extreme levels. This doesn't mean that Cancer (neither other "first signs") is intrinsically a negative or problematic sign but it is somehow like an area/level where a very critical trial is made as I mentioned. The Cancerian function is to be sufficiently balanced by the Capricornian. In the planet list that is provided by the C's, we see that
Saturn is also called Zendar. And there is also an interesting reference to "Zindar Council":
Q: (L) Was Jesus special, Christed as it is called, in any way?
A: Quick exalted to end the wars and civil entrancement; Zindar council.
Q: (L) What is the Zindar Council?
A: Two cycle exchangers mission.
This is probably what Ra refers to as the "
Council of Saturn".
The Moon is the closest celestial object to the Earth. And in the classical astrology, Saturn was supposed to be the remotest planet. Now we know it isn't. And in the solar planet list of the C's, it is positioned in midway.
In the sessions, there are also specific references to the sign Libra. By the way, although there appears to be no etymological connection between them, I find the similarity between the words "Libra" and "Library" interesting. Library is referenced in the sessions many times, naturally. The concept of library is actually closely related to the specific meaning of Libra that I examine here; gaining of wisdom, balancing, guiding, etc. And also consider the following discussion from the sessions:
Q: (L) Okay, in reading these various books relating to elements of the 'quest,' we find a lot of bearded white men running around dispensing knowledge and a close association between them and serpents, though there has not emerged yet a reference between the Serpent and the Templars and Christ. I suggested that I thought that were 'good guys' and 'bad guys' and that something that seems benevolent could also be otherwise upon closer examination. Mike agrees except for the mention of the 'smoking mirror' god which brought back the sacrifice. So, there seems to be the association of the benevolent guys with the 'serpent of wisdom.' Can you comment?
A: Many stories stemming from your history or antiquity are confused or corrupted.
Q: (L) Are the bearded white guys running around dispensing knowledge associated with the serpent?
A: No.
Q: (L) So, the bearded white guys are in opposition to the serpent.
A: Confused with.
Q: (L) When I was with Dr. Zanghi who was doing a hypnotic regression with me, he asked why I was being abducted. At that moment, in response to that question, a scene appeared to me of a sort of Greek Temple with a lot of "patriarch" types in long robes and wearing beards, who were teaching me and then sending me out to do something. What was this memory?
A: Not yet, Laura!
Q: (L) Well, that sounds foreboding. That sounds scary to me that you can't tell me? Is this something I should be frightened about?
A: No.
I think that the bearded white robed figures which we come across in different contexts are very Libran figures. Wise, peaceful, guiding. This doesn't mean that there can be no STS interpretation of Libra, it sure can be. You can remember the reference made the Illuminati guys possessing a great level of knowledge compared with ordinary people. And this is also about the comparison between children and parents/adults in the context of the "first" and "second" sign relation.
Also:
Q: (L) Was Venus ejected from Jupiter?
A: No.
Q: (L) Did Venus follow a cometary orbit for a time?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Did Venus appear in our solar system, from the area of Jupiter, coming from deep space?
A: That is correct.
Q: (L) Was Mars knocked out of it's orbit by Venus?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Venus was stimulated by the gravitational pull?
A: Attracted.
Q: (L) Venus was drawn into the solar system by the gravitational pull of the cluster of comets?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Where did Venus get all its gases and clouds and so forth? What was its origin? Where did it get all this stuff?
A: Collected during fiery, friction filled journey and space matter in general.
Q: (L) Where was Venus originally from?
A: Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.
Q: Okay. Now, next question: I understand that Libra was added to the zodiac and broke Scorpio and Virgo apart. Were there originally 10 or 11 signs in the zodiac?
A: Originally?
Q: You know what I mean!
A: There have been many combinations.
Q: Well, when did the present 12 sign zodiac begin to be established as it is?
A: 1302 A.D.
Q: And how many signs were there before that?
A: 11
Q: That's what I thought. What is the source of the oldest zodiac available to us?
A: Atlantis.
Q: Well, fine, what is the oldest extant source in terms of writings?
A: Egypt.
Q: Well, that could really have an effect on one's astrology!
A: The art of astrology lies within the interpretations of the astrologer, and if accurate, it is because of psychic talents. Same as with all methods, they are merely mediums.
Q: If A has money in a bank outside of Poland, why is he doing the poor mouth, and why does he not let me know that I don't need to worry, and why does he borrow money from other people to give to me, to pay bills?
A: The Libran balancing act, by its very nature, must include some deception.
So interesting!
I think this is also related to the Story of Jesus. You know, after it was revealed that Jesus as we used to know is not real, the C's upon the questioning explained why they didn't tell that from the beginning. So the latter answer is very meaningful in this instance too, I think.
And there are many other very interesting references to planets and signs in the sessions. Such an exciting puzzle!
Lastly, the relation between first and second signs is also like a difference between an interest in a local / specific part of the picture, on the one hand, and an interest in the bigger picture. Both of them are natural and necessary depending on the needs and conditions. In the long term, a balance is needed and obtained between them based on accumulation of data and knowledge. "Balancing" as the fundamental function of the first polarity of Aries-Libra seems to be the reflected in all other polarities. In a certain sense, Libra is the balancing actor or force, however, in another sense, Libra itself is in need of being balanced with Aries! As I tried to explain before, Aries is the life force, kind of God-Spark, excitement, freshness. Without Aries, there is no Libra. The same is valid for other signs of polarities, but I might not have explored them sufficiently yet, so there can be biases, many deficiencies and related errors in my interpretations, they need to be developed/balanced much.
