AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[SeekinTruth]

One wonders then if iron overload is caused by a pathogen triggering the body to absorb more than it needs (in order for the pathogen to survive/thrive).

That's a good question (it could also be the cause in some cases and not others). Besides the push to supplement iron in the last few decades, which we knew to be dangerous from the iron overload research, another risk is fortified food (like flours, breads, cereals, etc. that we don't eat, but the general population does in high quantities).


I'm going to get the book Plague Time in the next couple of days (I'll see if it's also available for Kindle for easy searching and quoting if need be).

ADDED: Just saw your post, Pierre.

 

[Yas]

Very interesting RedFox

Following infection, the familiar sneezing, runny nose, and inflammation are all part of the immune system’s attempts to rid the body of hostile invaders. Lesser known is a separate defense against invasive microbes, called nutritional immunity, that quietly takes place under our skin. This defense mechanism starves infectious bacteria by hiding circulating iron, an essential nutrient it needs for survival. The protein that transports iron in the blood, transferrin, tucks the trace metal safely out of reach.

I don't know if I understand it correctly. Could it be that by tucking the iron, as a defense, it can contribute to iron overload as ferritin overload?

And...

]There are still signs of the battle today. Up to 25 percent of people in the world’s populations have a small alteration in the transferrin gene, which prevents recognition by several infectious bacteria, the most recent sign of this long battle. “Up until this study no one had come up with a functional explanation for why this variation occurs at an appreciable frequency in human populations,” says Elde. “We now know that it is a consequence of the pathogens we and our ancestors faced over millions of years.”

Could this mutation be related to transferrin saturation, used as a defense against pathogens, which, unfortunately, also leads to ferritin overload? It would give a clue on the hemochromatosis mutation. But I might be saying something ridiculous here, so correct me if I'm way off.

It reminded me of:

Q: (Perceval) Those have been around for like decades. (Kniall) It's literally a smoke ring. (L) But coming from the other direction. (Perceval) And they come up with all sorts of fancy explanations for how they form that have nothing to do with the actual cause. (L) Anybody got anything else that's really pressing? (Bubbles) Do we want to ask any questions about iron? (Ailen) Hemochromatosis? (L) Well, I thought we were gonna wait for the tests and stuff, but I guess we should ask. Bubble's iron is pretty high, and there's the possibility she could be afflicted with hemochromatosis, which is what my grandfather had. (Bubbles) You wanted to ask what the significance is of having high iron?

A: Survival under specific circumstances.

Q: (Perceval) So it could be a hereditary thing that was provoked in the past when there was plague.

A: It can also arise spontaneously.

Q: (L) So it's not always genetic? (Ailen) What about these specific circumstances? (Bubbles) Is it like a defense mechanism?

A: Yes.

Q: (Bubbles) A defense against what?

A: Breaching the barriers. Your psyche feels in need of greater defense.

 

[RedFox]

So what happens when we add in iron chelators?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10575141

Iron chelators as anti-infectives; malaria as a paradigm.

Abstract
Malaria is the major life threatening parasitic disease and the cause of a global public health problem. The failure of vector eradication programs and the appearance and spread of drug resistant parasites have posed the urgent challenge of developing effective, safe and affordable anti-malarial drugs. The design of such drugs is largely based on the targeting of agents to the parasite-based machinery for host digestion and to the products of hemoglobin catabolism. Iron chelators, by depriving intracellular parasites from essential iron, lead to selective suppression of parasite growth. However, by acting on parasite-impaired macrophages, chelators can also expedite resumption of phagocytosis and elimination of parasites. In order to be clinically effective, chelators need to be maintained in the blood for extensive time periods. Therapeutic doses can be attained with appropriate drug combinations and formulations or delivery devices and these must be presented in a form well tolerated by the host. The early documentation that chelation therapy has activity against human malaria has paved the road for the design of novel and more efficient remedies based on short-term iron deprivation.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/14019462_Potentiating_effect_of_EDTA-Tris_on_the_activity_of_antibiotics_against_resistant_bacteria_associated_with_otitis_dermatitis_and_cystitis

Potentiating effect of EDTA-Tris on the activity of antibiotics against resistant bacteria associated with otitis, dermatitis and cystitis

ABSTRACT Possible synergistic effects of the combination of EDTA-tromethamine (EDTA-Tris) and three antimicrobial agents (cephaloridine, kanendomycin and enrofloxacin) against resistant Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria are reported. Bacteria were isolated from eight cases of chronic otitis externa, five cases of chronic dermatitis and four cases of recurrent cystitis in dogs which had previously been treated with one of the three antibiotics without success. Animals exposed to EDTA-tromethamine plus the antibiotic recovered completely within 10 days, and were controlled clinically and bacteriologically for 180 days. Local irrigation with EDTA-tromethamine solution was well tolerated and no side effects were recorded.

http://www.iasj.net/iasj?func=fulltext&aId=31524

The Effect of EDTA with Single or Combination of Antibiotics on Pseudomonas aeruginosa Isolates in Vitro

Back ground
P. aeruginosa is one of the most common causes of infection in burns and wounds and it is the major cause of death in burn patients. This organism is frequently feared because it causes severe hospital-acquired infections, especially in immunocompromised hosts, and is often antibiotic resistant; complicating the choice of therapy. Thus, there is continuous need for enhancing the antibacterial efficacy of antibiotics against P aeroginosa.
[..]
Conclusion Amikacin is the most effective agent against Pseudomonas aeruginosa especially when combined with ceftazidime, more over; EDTA increases the activity of antibiotic against pseudomonas aeruginosa especially when combined with aminoglycoside antibiotics.

A brief history of parasite control in cattle (may be a useful thread to research? Everything looks pretty toxic though)
http://www.merial.com.au/cattle/beef/disease_information/Pages/en_control.aspx

Endoparasites - Control

Control

Cattle raised on wet pastures often have heavy parasite loads. As mentioned earlier, moisture and warmth are usually necessary for the development and survivability of infective roundworm larvae. These conditions promote the buildup of dangerous pasture populations of Strongyloides by allowing the free-living life cycle.

Moisture on the pasture may also increase cattle fluke infection by allowing the proliferation of intermediate hosts. Fasciola hepatica, for example, requires an amphibious snail as intermediate host. These snails require small, temporary bodies of water like those left when hoofprints or tire tracks fill with water. If pastures are drained, the snails die off and cattle are less likely to become infected with liver flukes.

Management Practices

Livestock management can be an important part of parasite control by reducing the probability of infection, especially in young susceptible animals. Pastures should not be overstocked, as cattle have more chance of eating infective larvae in crowded pastures. Separating young cattle from adults as early as possible reduces the incidence of infection since older animals are a source of infection. Whilst leaving an area free of animals for a substantial period (ie. several months) allows infective larvae to die off without being replenished by eggs from infected hosts.

Drinking water should also be provided in troughs to avoid the use of fluke-contaminated ponds. Finally, if cattle are fed supplementary feed, the ration should be well-balanced with adequate vitamins and minerals. This will strengthen the host´s resistance and help to reduce iron-deficiency anaemia. Weight losses from parasites may thus be minimised. {Adding iron may reduce anemia, but may not help with the battle}

Anthelmintic Control

Chemicals used to control nematodes, cestodes, and trematodes are termed anthelmintics. Anthelmintics may eliminate parasites in a variety of ways: for example, by paralysing them and allowing the host to expel them; by halting their ability to metabolise nutrients, thereby killing them; and by limiting their ability to reproduce. Different chemicals may act in one or more of these ways. An ideal anthelmintic would have the following characteristics:

* Exhibit a high level of toxicity to the parasite but not to the host, when used under a variety of conditions. Parasites vary greatly in their susceptibility to different drugs, determined by numerous factors including the strain of parasite present, its life cycle stage, the time of year, and the weather conditions.
* Have a wide therapeutic index or margin of safety.
* Be easy to administer to be of practical use.
* Not leave tissue residues in the host that are not acceptable to humans who consume meat or milk from the treated animal.

Since the beginning of this century many chemicals have been used to destroy parasites. The earliest compounds were relatively ineffective, but much progress has been made in recent decades. Cupric sulfate, lead arsenate, tin compounds, preparations of chenopodium oil, and nicotine were some of the first chemicals used to combat parasitic infections, but they either had poor efficacy or were toxic to the host. The use of carbon tetrachloride began in the 1920´s and was a significant improvement in parasite control, especially of trematodes. This compound, however, was quite toxic to the host.

This discovery of phenothiazine in the late 1930´s was the first major breakthrough in the development of anthelmintics. This drug has a wide margin of safety and, when introduced, provided limited control of Haemonchus, Oesophagostomum, Ostertagia, and Trichostrongylus.

A revolutionary advance in the control of internal nematode parasites came with the introduction, in the early 1960´s, of thiabendazole, the first of the benzimidazole class of compounds. This product has been extremely successful in the control of a wide range of nematodes. It is effective against the adults, eggs and some immature stages. Because of low levels of residue, it is approved in many countries for use in dairy cows at dry off. Other benzimidazoles followed the introduction of thiabendazole. Presently a number of different benzimidazoles are marketed worldwide. Some benzimidazoles such as albendazole and triclabendazole also have activity against liver fluke. Triclabendazole is different in that it is very effective against liver fluke but has no activity against roundworm.

In the late 1960´s, levamisole was introduced by Janssen Pharmaceutical in Belgium. This product is effective against most nematode parasites of cattle and is effective against the lungworm (Dictyocaulus ). Besides the drench it is also marketed as an injectable product. It has been reported to cause setback in stressed cattle.

The organophosphorus compounds, including dichlorvos, haloxon, and trichlorfon, have their greatest effect against nematodes in the upper gastrointestinal tract. However, they have little effect on Oesophagostomum radiatum. These compounds are cholinesterase inhibitors, which may be toxic to both the parasites and the host. (Cholinesterase is a compound that plays an essential role in the function of the nervous systems of animals). Used at the correct dosage, they kill the parasites without damage to the host. Manufacturer´s contraindications indicate that organophosphorus compounds should not be used concomitantly with other cholinesterase inhibiting compounds.

Chlorinated hydrocarbons have been used to kill trematode parasites. The first compound used was carbon tetrachloride. This was followed by hexachlorophene and a variety of other compounds. However, because the chlorinated hydrocarbons leave residues in milk and meat, these products have been withdrawn from use in most, if not all, countries.

The salicylanilide group of compounds such as rafoxanide is very effective against flukes, some roundworms and nasal bots.

The macrocyclic lactone (ML) family of molecules (such as ivermectin and eprinomectin) have potent, broad antiparasitic spectrum at low dose levels. They are effective against most immature and mature nematodes including larvae and also arthropods, and are available in a range of formulations including injectables and pour-ons.

The macrocyclic lactone (ML) family of molecules (such as ivermectin and eprinomectin) have potent, broad antiparasitic spectrum at low dose levels. They are effective against most immature and mature nematodes including larvae and also arthropods, and are available in a range of formulations including injectables and pour-ons.

Some of the existing anthelmintics have a number of deficiencies which are listed as follows:

Some anthelmintics when administered to cattle cause undue stress and can be toxic.
Many anthelmintics have limited spectra of effectiveness and thus several different treatment regimens have to be given if the cattle are infected by more than one parasite species, as is usually the case.
Few compounds are consistently effective against arrested or migrating larval nematodes.
IVOMEC® and EPRINEX® provides excellent control of the arrested stage of roundworms eg. inhibited ostertagia control in cattle.

I was also wondering if there where any studies directly linking childhood trauma and parasites. Sexual abuse being linked to the worst outcomes (and an avenue of parasitic infection).
Couldn't find anything overtly linking the two, but the following (used as an analogy) caught my eye:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rvNyJq-kF0kJ:psychcentral.com/lib/healing-from-childhood-abuse-understanding-the-effects-taking-control-to-recover/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Healing from Childhood Abuse: Understanding the Effects, Taking Control to Recover By John J. Lemoncelli
Reviewed by Gina Stepp, MA

During the 20th century, psychology was viewed as less than a science — mostly because it was difficult to gather hard evidence to back up theories about mental processes. In the modern age of neuroscience, this circumstance has only just begun to change as new technologies offer ever-widening windows into the workings of the brain, and as researchers have slowly increased collaboration across disciplines to develop evidence-based approaches to therapy.

This has spawned a number of self-help books intended to serve up the latest brain research for the benefit of mental health practitioners and patients alike. Oddly enough, especially considering the mounting literature addressing developmental trauma and abuse, John J. Lemoncelli’s 2012 offering, Healing from Childhood Abuse: Understanding the Effects, Taking Control to Recover, is not such a book.

As surprising as it may seem, not one neuroscience study is listed in the book’s bibliography. Indeed, out of 43 entries, only four are research papers published since 1990 — the year that opened the “decade of brain.” None are post-2000, when brain research took yet another leap forward; an oversight which seems akin to willful neglect for a book published in 2012. Still, for those who are looking for an eclectic psychospiritual approach to therapy, Lemoncelli offers some useful metaphors, ecumenical spiritual imagery, and case histories that will support certain patients who are struggling to cope with the effects of childhood abuse — particularly those whose abuse occurred against a backdrop of religious or spiritual belief.

Lemoncelli’s primary focus is the sense of being damaged or “bad” that many survivors of childhood abuse experience. Like other practitioners who work with traumatized patients, he began to notice that his patients tended to assume personal responsibility for the abuse. In describing their feelings of worthlessness and shame, they used similar terminology. “Many of these patients expressed a sense of a thing inside of them that caused them to feel sick inside all the time,” writes Lemoncelli. “Was there a thing inside of them that created these feelings? If there was a thing inside of them, what was this thing?” {could we be literally looking at parasitic infections here?}

Quite reasonably, Lemoncelli recognized that a better understanding of the results of abuse and trauma should lead to better approaches in therapy. However, instead of looking to recent trauma research — which has a great deal to contribute to this understanding — he chose to look to biology for imagery that might answer these questions sufficiently for his patients.

Rejecting viruses and bacteria as useful comparisons, Lemoncelli homed in on the idea of a parasite. “Parasites exist for two reasons,” he points out, “(1) to consume the host and (2) to replicate themselves.” As a tool for imagining how the effects of abuse can be passed from perpetrator to victim, the idea of a parasite does offer some support. In this analogy the abuser, who is first affected by a parasite, contaminates the victim through abusive behavior and communication. The parasite then replicates itself inside the victim, perpetuating the abuse by regurgitating its poisonous thoughts and schemas in a self-fulfilling cycle. The goal from Lemoncelli’s perspective is to help his patients realize that they aren’t the damaged souls they imagine, but that their self-blame is driven by a parasite within them that needs to be “excreted.”

The case histories that are dispersed throughout the text are perhaps the strongest support for his goal: Here, readers can more easily acknowledge how misplaced self-blame can be as they observe it in someone else, and Lemoncelli’s natural compassion and empathy pave the way toward this understanding. In fact, it is impossible to find fault with Lemoncelli’s determination to connect with his readers, which speaks to his effectiveness as a therapist. After all, research does back up the fact that a resonant and supportive therapeutic relationship is one of the most important factors in the success of psychotherapy, whatever approach is used.

Lemoncelli also demonstrates an admirable willingness to learn from his patients. Inexplicably, however, he seems to miss an important pearl of wisdom from his patient Alisha. The parasite analogy, she says, has helped her and she is learning a new, coach-like way of talking to herself rather than succumbing to parasitic thoughts. “I know I can continue to replace my parasite with my coach,” she says. Although Lemoncelli takes two helpful lessons away from this thought — one about forgiveness and one about inner wisdom — he overlooks what could be an important refinement to his analogy. Rather than focusing on “excreting” the parasite as Lemoncelli suggests earlier in the text, perhaps Alisha has the right idea: that of turning a parasitic relationship into a symbiotic one. This strategy is not unknown in human biology. And from a research perspective, healing from trauma requires integrating our life story: We don’t heal by expelling the difficult memories, we heal by incorporating them into a meaningful thread in which we see the trauma as having increased our resilience rather than sapped it. An awareness of the last two decades of trauma research would certainly reinforce this connection. {From a biological/evolutionary point of view mitochondria where separate originally, and the relationship between them and larger cells became symbiotic. This may be something to consider later, right now nuking our parasites is probably the best option. The parallels between psychology and biology are intriguing though. This is also perhaps slightly too off topic}

It’s impossible in a brief review to cover all of the metaphors and psychological approaches Lemoncelli draws into this relatively short book as he works toward bringing understanding to his patients. His examples are not ineffective — in fact, some are brilliantly illustrative. But they lack a strong, unifying foundation: a need that would have been well supplied by even a brief sketch of the relevant trauma research.

Such a foundation would have strengthened the book considerably and worked to prevent its dismissal by a segment of readers that could potentially benefit from it, including those practitioners who hope to bridge the wide gap that yawns between research and practice. Without this foundation the book suffers some of the same symptoms of developmental abuse that Lemoncelli accurately observes in his patients. “For the longest time,” he writes, “the parasite has had you literally running around in circles with no sense of direction,” which “maintains your sense of hopelessness and helplessness.”

Despite this challenge, Lemoncelli’s book is sure to appeal to those who gravitate toward a psychospiritual approach, many of whom may believe that science and spirituality cannot be reconciled. But the author’s ignoring of potentially very helpful research on that basis is counterproductive. A more constructive approach would be to demonstrate, by including the research, that the two approaches can be reconciled. Nevertheless, it is that reader who holds a mistrust of science together with an eclectic spiritual bent who will be most comfortable with this book.

 

[SeekinTruth]

When it comes to the larger parasites from the post about controlling them in cattle, particularly in humans, the proven effectiveness of herbs like wormwood, black walnut hull, and cloves (fresh ground for killing eggs) is much better because they are relatively safe and kill many, many different types of the larger parasites (round worms, hook worms, whip worms, flat worms/flukes, etc.). Adding in Rascal/Razcaps will complete the herbal program for encysted parasites, etc. These larger parasites are known to carry a whole entourage of other pathogens also (and bacteria in the larger parasites carry viruses, etc. - it's like a matrioshka of pathogens). FWIW.

 

[stellar]

So, I just returned from my GP appointment, and he has referred me for the following tests although I am not sure that they will be comprehensive enough but we'll see.

He requested Cholesterol/Triglyc/ HDL:E & LFT; FBE; Faeces-M,C & S/ parasitology; Fasting BGL;IgE; Iron studies; TFT; coeliac serology; fecal virology; MTHFR genetic testing; IgE cows milk protein.

When I entered the waiting room I was greeted with a sign "A GOOD GP NEVER STOPS LEARNING" so I hoped that was a good sign.

I didn't wait long to be shown in. The doctor just looked at me as I tried to explain why I wanted certain tests done. I told him that I have been reading and researching some things which appear to be possible reasons for my recurring health issues and that I was considering looking into allopathic as well as alternative treatments in some combination to deal with these. He looked briefly into the protocol printout and appeared totally dumbstruck.

I then asked him if I was overloading him with info on my health issues and he basically said that this was only a 15 minute consult and then paused. Awkwaard! I apologised and asked if he could at least give me a referral for some of the tests needed to check for the bugs and allergens and perhaps we could go into more detail on the next appointment. I swear he looked like I was there to test him at his practice and not as a patient. Really weird meeting. Maybe he was silently processing everything cus he didn't note anything down?

Should get the results in about a week.

 

[Konstantin]

Reading this thread and the last Cs session, first thing that came to my mind was the correlation between dental plaque and atherosclerosis. Both conditions are characterized with building of a plaque on the teeth or arteries.

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_plaque

The main microorganisms in dental plaque is Streptococcus mutans
In atherosclerosis plaque Streptococcus mutans is also found

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22262633

Streptococcus mutans, a dental caries pathogen, also causes endocarditis and is detected in atheroscelerotic plaque. We investigated the potential for an invasive strain of S. mutans, OMZ175, to accelerate plaque growth in apolipoprotein E deficient (ApoE(null)) mice without and with balloon angioplasty (BA) injury, a model of restenosis. ApoE(null) mice were divided into 4 groups (N = 10), 2 with and 2 without BA. One each of the BA and non-BA groups was infected with S. mutans (Sm). S. mutans DNA, plaque area, inflammatory cell invasion, and Toll-like receptor (TLR) expression were measured at 6-20 weeks post-infection. S. mutans genomic DNA was detected in the aorta, liver, spleen, and heart. Plaque growth was significantly increased in infected mice with BA (Sm+BA) vs. those in the non-infected groups (p < 0.03). Plaque size was increased after infection without BA (Sm), but did not reach significance. Aortic specimens from both S. mutans and Sm+BA groups displayed increased numbers of macrophages, and TLR4 expression was increased in BA mice. In conclusion, S. mutans infection accelerated plaque growth, macrophage invasion, and TLR4 expression after angioplasty. S. mutans may also be associated with atherosclerotic plaque growth in non-injured arteries.

So, after all the saturated fats are not even close to cause any damage to the arteries. The pathogen infections are, and of course combined with a bad diet.

I have one friend that have a big dental problems. His teeth were heavily decayed. He removed them all , and he put a implants or whatever it was. Shortly after that he developed atherosclerosis and he need some medical interventions. He never had any cardiovascular problems before.

So i think there is a connection with infection. Maybe the infection spread during the dental procedure through the bloodstream and hide in the cardiovascular system, and made all that damage.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1594668/

Accumulated evidence suggests that oral bacterial pathogens are associated with several kinds of systemic diseases, such as infective endocarditis (IE), cardiovascular diseases, bacterial pneumonia, low birth weight, and diabetes mellitus (12). Those associations are speculated to be initiated by transient or prolonged bacteremia caused by oral infection: i.e., from professional dental treatments and daily oral care practices such as tooth brushing and flossing, as well as from food chewing, which possibly induces dissemination of oral bacteria into the bloodstream (21). Oral streptococcal species are major components of the oral microflora that are known to occasionally cause bacteremia and IE (13). Streptococcus mutans, a major pathogenic agent of dental caries, has also been isolated from the blood of patients with IE, strongly suggesting a close relationship of the pathogen with IE (5, 23, 24).

The recent development of several molecular techniques has enabled prompt identification of targeted bacterial species in specimens with significantly improved specificity and sensitivity. PCR methods using primers constructed with a species-specific nucleotide alignment are widely used for the detection of specific species. In addition, broad-range eubacterial PCR with amplification of bacterial DNA and subsequent direct sequencing is considered to be a reliable diagnostic tool (18, 19).

Dental caries and chronic marginal periodontitis are two major infectious diseases clinically encountered in the field of dentistry. Recently, several studies have reported detection of periodontal pathogens in cardiovascular specimens from patients using a PCR method, suggesting relationships between oral microorganisms and systemic cardiovascular diseases (20). However, there are no reports of oral streptococci detected in those tissues, especially regarding cariogenic S. mutans, which is a potential cause of IE. In the present study, we analyzed the presence of streptococcal species in diseased heart valve and atheromatous plaque specimens, as well as in dental plaque samples from the same subjects.

_http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40765461_Antibiotic_sensitivity_pattern_of_Streptococcus_mutans_against_commercially_available_drugs

Pranay Jain*1 and Ram Kumar Pundir
Journal of Pharmacy Research 01/2009;
Source: DOAJ
ABSTRACT Streptococcus mutans is the leading cause of dental caries (tooth decay) worldwide and is considered to be the most cariogenic of all of the oral streptococci. In the present investigation, the evaluation of current efficacy of 15 commercially available antibacterial drugs in India was carried out against three strains of S. mutans by Kirby-Bauer disc diffusion method and for also determining which drug should be prescribed by the dentists exhibiting minimal side effects and maximum inhibitory activity. Of the 15 antibacterial drugs evaluated against all the threestrains of S. mutans, amoxicillin and penicillin G were highly effective in terms of maximum diameter of growth inhibition zones followed by chloramphenicol. Nine drugs namely, ofloxacin, doxycycline, tetracycline, chlortetracycline, erythromycin, vancomycin, clindamycin, methicillin and gentamycin were found to be moderately effective against the three strains of S. mutans. Metronidazole, ciprofloxacin and rifampicin were not effective against the bacteria as they did not show any inhibitory activity.

Antibiotic sensitivity pattern of Streptococcus mutans against commercially available drugs - ResearchGate. Available from: _http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40765461_Antibiotic_sensitivity_pattern_of_Streptococcus_mutans_against_commercially_available_drugs [accessed Jul 21, 2015].

 

[Yas]

I decided to search a bit on more natural alternatives to the treatment. I understand that it's been said that it hard to tell if this would work, but maybe, for the people who haven't got a severe condition, this can be one step to follow before going into the full antibiotic protocol.

I'm sorry for the lenght of this post, but maybe there is a thread that we can follow from these articles.

From: How These Herbs Help to Stop a Persistent Mycoplasma Infection

Antibiotics reduce mycoplasma infections in the body
There are several species of mycoplasma that infect the body. They have strange sounding names like: Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma hominis, or Mycoplasma pneumonia. Unfortunately, mycoplasma can infect different areas in the body and can produce symptoms of infection, mucus discharge, pain, arthritis, fatigue, or neurological problems. They can activate or suppress your immune system. These germs can mimic the proteins in your body which can lead to autoimmune illnesses like Lupus, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS), Multiple sclerosis, or cancer2. Many Lyme disease patients with mycoplasma get relief with antibiotics like Minocycline, Doxycycline, Ciprofloxacin, Azithromycin, or Clarithromycin.

Unfortunately, mycoplasma infections can return after going off antibiotics.

Are there other ways to help eliminate a recurring mycoplasma infection?

There are three herbs that help to reduce the persistent symptoms of a mycoplasma infection[3]
These herbs inhibit or kill mycoplasma and many other infectious germs.

Herb #1: Radix Isatidis, Chinese name: Ban Lan Gen[4]
The properties of this herb are bitter, cold, clears heat, eliminates toxins, cools the blood and benefits the throat. This is used to treat symptoms of fever, sore throat, tonsillitis, upper respiratory tract infections, blotches on the skin, and a flushed or swollen face. This herb is also used to treat encephalitis B, hepatitis, chicken pox, herpes simplex, and herpes zoster.

Ban Lan Gen is relatively safe with occasional reports of gastrointestinal discomfort. Allergic reactions have been reported with oral and intravenous dosages of this herb. Patients that are allergic to sulfonylureas and sulfonamides may also be allergic to this herb. Ban Lan Gen has antiplatelet action and should be used with caution with people who take anticoagulant or antiplatelet medications.

Ban Lan Gen has antibacterial effects in vitro against Mycoplasma hominis[3], Staphylococcus aureus (staph), Diplococcus pneumoniae, E. coli, Salmonella typhi, influenza viruses, and leptospira.

Herb #2: Radix Angelica Dahurica, Chinese name: Bai Zhi[5]
The properties of this herb are acrid, and warm. Angelica dahurica is used to treat symptoms of colds, mucus discharge, and pain. It is used to relieve nasal obstruction, headaches, muscle aches, sinusitis, rhinitis, and white or yellow nasal discharge. This herb is also used to relieve frontal headaches, pain around the eyes, and toothaches.

It is also used to reduce swelling, discharge pus and eliminate toxins. This herb helps to reduce sores, inflammation, carbuncles, furuncles, rashes, itching, and ulcers in the skin. It is also used to treat breast abscesses, intestinal abscesses, and acute appendicitis. Angelica dahurica is also used to treat leukorrhea and diarrhea.

This herb inhibits the growth of Mycoplasma hominis[3], E. coli, Bacillus dysenteriae, Bacillus proteus, Salmonella typhi, Pseudonomas aeruginosa, Vibrio cholerae, Mycobacterium tuberculosis hominis, and Shigella spp. In several research studies, Angelica dahurica demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory, analgesic, antipyretic, and antispasmodic effects in mice. In other experiments, Angelica dahurica lowered the heart rate, decreased blood pressure, increased the depth of breathing, and stimulated the nervous system in other laboratory animals. In one study on rats, this herb had an inhibitory effect on liver metabolism. Because of inhibited metabolism, concurrent use of this herb may lead to increased plasma concentrations of drugs like testosterone, tolbutamide, nifedipine, bufuralol, and diazepam.

Herb #3: Cortex Phellodendri, Chinese name: Huang Bai[6]
The properties of this herb are bitter and cold. Cortex Phellodendri is used for clearing symptoms of heat and infection, eliminating toxins, and dryness. It is also used to treat jaundice, burning diarrhea, feelings of incomplete evacuation, bleeding hemorrhoids, yellow leukorrhea, dysuria, and swollen painful joints. This herb is also used to treat sore and weak low back and knees, urinary tract infections, and blood in the urine.

Cortex Phellodendri is also effective in treating rashes, abscesses, sores, carbuncles, ulcerations, eczema, lesions, burns, redness, and eye symptoms of swelling, pain, and redness. It also treats the heat sensation which has been described as feeling like your “bones are being steamed.” This herb also treats tidal fever, nocturnal emissions, night sweats, emaciation, dry throat, flushed cheeks, tinnitus, dizziness, irritability, and insomnia. It is also used to treat menopause symptoms accompanied by scanty menstruation, abnormal uterine bleeding.

An extract of Cortex Phellodendri, xylopinin, is effective in lowering blood pressure. This herb has antibiotic effects against Mycoplasma hominis[3], Staphylococcus aureus (staph), Diplococcus pneumoniae, Corynebacterium diptheriae, Bacillus dysenteriae, B-hemolytic streptococcus, Diplococcus meningitidis, Vibrio cholerae, Bacillus anthracis, and dermatophytes. It is also used to treat a spirochete infection called leptospira. The leaves of this herb have an antiviral effect against the herpes virus.

Research studies show that this herb is effective in treating chronic bacterial dysentery and chronic bronchitis. This herb is not suitable for long-term use in patients with coldness in the stomach. It is contraindicated in patients with that have extreme coldness. There are no known drug interactions at the time of publication.

How do you know that these herbs are working to kill off your mycoplasma infection?

Patients report a significant reduction of mycoplasma symptoms
After adding the above herbs to her anti-Lyme herb formula, Laila reported that her persistent cough and phlegm was almost completely gone after one week. Several other patients diagnosed with mycoplasma have reported significant improvements in chronic symptoms of fatigue, pain, and malaise when taking one or more of these herbs. The right combination of herbs can help reduce a persistent mycoplasma infection.

The right herb combination can help you to stop a recurring mycoplasma infection
Just like eliminating pesky stink bugs from your garden, the proper combination of herbs helps you to stop a recurring mycoplasma infection. Since some of these herbs come with cautions on their use, work with a Lyme literate herbalist to develop a safe and effective herbal strategy for your condition.

[I pasted the references here in case there is something useful that might be good to look into]

1. Eskow E, Adelson ME, Rao RV, Mordechai E. Evidence for disseminated Mycoplasma fermentans in New Jersey residents with antecedent tick attachment and subsequent musculoskeletal symptoms. J Clin Rheumatol. 2003 Apr;9(2). pp. 77-87.
2. Leslie Taylor. Mycoplasmas – Stealth Pathogens. http://www.rain-tree.com/myco.htm
3. Che YM, Mao SH, Jiao WL, Fu ZY. Susceptibilities of Mycoplasma hominis to herbs. Am J Chin Med. 2005;33(2) pp.191-6.
4. Chen, John K., and Tina T. Chen. 2004. Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology. City of Industry CA: Art of Medicine Press, Inc., pp. 210 – 211.
5. Chen, John K., and Tina T. Chen. 2004. Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology. City of Industry CA: Art of Medicine Press, Inc., pp. 59 – 62.
6. Chen, John K., and Tina T. Chen. 2004. Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology. City of Industry CA: Art of Medicine Press, Inc., pp. 145 – 147.

From: In Vitro efficacy of antimicrobial extracts against the atypical ruminant pathogen Mycoplasma mycoides subsp. capri

Abstract:

Background

Mycoplasmosis is a common infection in human and veterinary medicine, and is associated with chronic inflammation and high morbidity. Mycoplasma species are often intrinsically resistant to many conventional antimicrobial therapies, and the resistance patterns of pathogenic mycoplasmas to commonly used medicinal (antimicrobial) plant extracts are currently unknown.

Methods

Aqueous extracts, ethanol extracts, or oils of the targeted plant species and colloidal silver were prepared or purchased. Activity against the wall-less bacterial pathogen Mycoplasma mycoides subsp. capri was determined and compared to activities measured against Escherichia coli and Bacillus subtilis. Antimicrobial susceptibility testing was performed by broth microdilution assays. The lethal or inhibitory nature of each extract was determined by subculture into neat growth medium.

Results

Growth of M. mycoides capri, E. coli, and B. subtilis was inhibited by elderberry extract, oregano oil, ethanol extract of oregano leaves, and ethanol extract of goldenseal root. No inhibition was seen with aqueous extract of astragalus or calendula oil. Growth of M. mycoides capri and B. subtilis was inhibited by ethanol extract of astragalus, whereas growth of E. coli was not. Similarly, M. mycoides capri and E. coli were inhibited by aqueous extract of thyme, but B. subtilis was unaffected. Only B. subtilis was inhibited by colloidal silver. Measured MICs ranged from 0.0003 mg/mL to 3.8 mg/mL. Bacteriostatic and bactericidal effects differed by species and extract.

[The same with antibiotics, you have to take a cocktail in order to reach all of them]

Conclusions

The atypical pathogen M. mycoides capri was sensitive to extracts from many medicinal plants commonly used as antimicrobials in states of preparation and concentrations currently available for purchase in the United States and Europe. Variation in bacteriostatic and bactericidal activities between species and extracts indicates that multiple effecter compounds are present in these plant species.

---

Results and discussion

The efficacy of commercial and fresh extracts of plants commonly used in botanical medicine to treat infection (Hydrastis canadensis, Astragalus membranaceus, Oreganum vulgare, Thymus vulgaris, Sambucus nigra, and Calendula officinalis) and colloidal silver against an atypical pathogenic bacterial species that lacks many common antimicrobial targets was examined. Representative species were selected for analysis based on precedent in antimicrobial assessments of botanical extracts (gram negative species E. coli and gram positive species B. subtilis) or in vitro growth characteristics (atypical species M. mycoides capri) [19,20]. Mycoplasmas are notoriously fastidious, but M. mycoides capri grows well in axenic culture and thus is ideal for in vitro analysis. Microdilution was selected over disk-diffusion because several recent studies have reported greater experimental sensitivity with broth microdilution [21,22]. Intraspecies diversity in resistance to many conventional antibiotics has been noted for M. mycoides capri and may also exist for the included antimicrobial extracts [23,24], therefore the use of a single strain represents a limitation of this work. Future studies including numerous strains are needed prior to recommending a standard concentration for treatment with extracts; however, this study represents an essential first step in establishing a baseline expectation for susceptibility using strain GM12.

We found a wide range of resistance and sensitivities with the compounds tested, two of which conflicted with previous findings (Table ​(Table3)3) indicating higher sensitivity of gram positive bacteria to goldenseal alkaloids (analogous to our commercial goldenseal) than of E. coli[25], and sensitivity of E. coli to colloidal silver by qualitative methods [26]. Growth of M. mycoides capri, E. coli, and B. subtilis was inhibited by all tested elderberry extracts, oregano oil, ethanol extract of oregano leaves, and fresh ethanol extract of goldenseal root. No inhibition was seen with aqueous extract of astragalus or calendula oil. Growth of M. mycoides capri and B. subtilis was inhibited by fresh ethanol extract of astragalus, whereas growth of E. coli was not. Similarly, M. mycoides capri and E. coli were inhibited by a commercial ethanol extract of thyme, but B. subtilis was unaffected. Only B. subtilis was inhibited by colloidal silver, and only M. mycoides capri was inhibited by fresh aqueous extract of goldenseal root. No inhibition was observed for any species with the extract solvents (i.e., molecular grade water, 95% ethanol, or olive oil).

While inhibition of B. subtilis and M. mycoides capri was observed for the fresh astragalus ethanol extract, the commercial ethanol extract and the fresh aqueous extract were ineffective. Our data suggest that the antimicrobial component of A. membranaceus is not water-soluble, and that the commercial preparation tested does not retain the component. While we did not observe any inhibition with calendula oil, other studies have documented its positive contribution to wound healing [27-30]. Calendula is associated with lymphocyte activation [15], angiogenesis [30], and alleviation of irritations [31], so it is plausible that its role in healing is due primarily to immune modulation and stimulation of tissue repair rather than antimicrobial activity.

[...]

S. nigra (elderberry) has been traditionally used to treat influenza, but a small number of additional studies show that this compound inhibits growth of gram positive and gram negative bacteria [25,32]. Inhibition was observed for both formulations of elderberry used in this study, but direct comparisons are difficult to make due to additional components in the formulation. The Gaia Herbs formulation contained acerola extract, which has also been reported to have antimicrobial activity [14]. However, Motohashi et al. reported the acerola was ineffective against all gram negative bacteria tested, while gram positive bacteria were sensitive. We found the MIC of the gram negative E. coli was 100-fold lower than the MICs of the gram positive B. subtilis and the atypical M. mycoides capri for this formulation of elderberry, indicating that acerola was not a major component of the observed inhibition. The antifungal and antibacterial preservative potassium sorbate (C6H7KO2) was added to the 365 Everyday Value formulation of elderberry. The impact of C6H7KO2 was apparent from the post-inhibition analysis, where the 365 Everyday Value formulation was found to be bactericidal and the Gaia Herbs preparation was found to be bacteriostatic. The antibacterial effect of C6H7KO2 is bactericidal [33], and so the presence of this preservative likely contributes to the analytic discrepancy and the inhibitory effect of the 365 Everyday Value preparation. While inhibition was observed for E. coli and M. mycoides capri with this preparation, the MIC was 2-fold higher for E. coli. In contrast, the MIC was 100-fold lower for M. mycoides capri, potentially indicating a greater sensitivity of atypical bacteria to the preservative C6H7KO2. Susceptibility testing using C6H7KO2 alone was not performed, but would confirm this indication. In further contrast, B. subtilis was resistant to the 365 formulation of elderberry at concentrations above the MIC measured for the Gaia Herbs formulation indicating that either 1.) the differential in MIC for B. subtilis can be attributed to the anti-gram positive effects of acerola; 2.) the efficacy of elderberry’s antimicrobial components is sensitive to shelf life; or 3.) elderberry and acerola act synergistically against B. subtilis in a way that elderberry and C6H7KO2 do not. In any case, it is clear that there are marked differences in in vitro efficacy between these formulations for all three representative types of bacteria.

Comparisons between commercial and freshly prepared ethanol extracts of astragalus and goldenseal root lend support to the notion of shelf life being an underappreciated problem, though differences in processing or preparation have not been accounted for. Fresh astragalus extract inhibited growth of B. subtilis and M. mycoides capri, while the commercial extract was ineffective against all three species. Similarly, the fresh ethanol extract of goldenseal root inhibited the growth of all three species, while B. subtilis and M. mycoides capri were completely resistant to the commercial extract. Curiously, E. coli had a 10-fold lower MIC for the commercial extract, but this is likely due to the reported concentration reflecting total alkaloid content rather than the dry weight of the whole root as was the case for the fresh ethanol extract. The alkaloid berberine is recognized as the major antibacterial component of goldenseal root [8], indicating that the commercial extract should intrinsically have a lower measured MIC than the fresh ethanol extract. Room-temperature storage of commercial and freshly prepared extracts with periodic measurements of the MICs for each would appropriately assess the scale of this problem. [This is something that many proponents of healing with herbs say, that the extracts need to be fresh because they loose their efficacy over time]

Our data collected from oregano preparations and our post-inhibition analysis support findings from previous studies [17] indicating that commercial extracts of medicinal plants contain multiple antimicrobial compounds. Ethanol extract from oregano leaves had lower MICs than oil emulsion of whole oregano for all three species, and this difference was remarkably pronounced for B. subtilis and M. mycoides capri. This difference likely stems from 1.) differential solubility of antibacterial compounds in oil versus ethanol, 2.) components present in the stem and root acting antagonistically to the effect exhibited by components in the leaves, or both. Lambert et al. reported that multiple antibacterial compounds are present in oregano plants [34], but this work was later contradicted by Peñalver et al. who associated the activity exclusively with the phenolic compound carvacrol [35]. However, there is greater evidence for the presence of multiple compounds in the form of findings showing a greater antimicrobial effect of oregano oil than of purified carvacrol [36]. Similarly, our findings of an extract being bacteriostatic for one species and bactericidal for another (as was the case for oregano leaf extract and fresh ethanol extracts of goldenseal root and astragalus) suggests multiple components within the same extracts exhorting different biological effects. This likely explains the unexpected finding of a wide range of sensitivity by M. mycoides capri when intrinsic antimicrobial resistance is predictable [1].

Our data indicate that commercial preparations of medicinal plants are predictably variable in their MIC and antibacterial spectrum. Because most are commercial extracts, however, the concentrations used are relevant to common usage scenarios despite the extracts having potential to be inhibitory at higher concentrations. Perhaps surprisingly the wall-less, atypical species M. mycoides capri was not limited in its sensitivity profile as compared to the eubacterial species E. coli and B. subtilis.

Then there is this one:

Effects of Traditional Chinese Medicine Qinbai Qingfei Concentrated Pellet on Cellular Infectivity of Mycoplasma pneumoniae

Abstract

Aim. To study the effect and mechanism of traditional Chinese medicine Qinbai Qingfei concentrated pellet (QQCP) against Mycoplasma pneumoniae (MP). Methods. Rat airway smooth muscle (ASM) cells were used to examine the antimycoplasmal activity of QQCP via four drug-adding modes: pre- and postadding drugs, simultaneous-adding after drug and MP mixed, and simultaneous-adding drug and MP; taking roxithromycin dispersive tablets (RDT) as positive control, the cellular A570 values were determined by MTT method. Results. All of A570 values in QQCP group were significantly higher than those of the corresponding MP control group in four drug-adding modes; there was no significant difference in A570 values between the QQCP group and that of the positive control group , confirming that QQCP could significantly inhibit the infectivity of MP to ASM cells. Conclusion. QQCP had significant activity in preventing and treating MP infection, killing MP, and antiabsorption.

There is also this article that sugests using Mullein, Seneca snakeroot, Green tea, Radix Isatidis or Ban Lan Gen, Radix Angelicae Dahuricae or Bain Zhi, Cortex Phellodendri or Haung Bai... It has some links that can be follow for further clues.

This might be an alternative to antivirals:

Inhibition of growth of human immunodeficiency virus in vitro by crude extracts of Chinese medicinal herbs

Abstract

Twenty-seven medicinal herbs reputed in ancient Chinese folklore to have anti-infective properties were extracted by boiling under reflux. The extracts were tested for inhibitory activity against the human immunodeficiency virus in the H9 cell line at concentrations nontoxic to growth of the H9 cells. Using a significant reduction (>3 S. D. below the mean) in the percentage of cells positive for specific viral antigens in three successive assays as indicative of activity against the virus, 11 of the 27 extracts were found to be active. One of the extracts (Viola yedoensis) was studied in greater depth. At a subtoxic concentration, this extract shut off completely the growth of HIV in virtually all experiments. It did not inactivate HIV extracellularly, did not induce interferon and did not inhibit the growth of herpes simplex, polio or vesicular stomatitis viruses in human fibroblast culture. Chinese medicinal herbs appeared to be a rich source of potentially useful materials for the treatment of human immunodeficiency virus infection.

Well, you have to pay to get the full article... :/

And this one can be useful for further research on the relation with cancer:

Mycoplasma Infection and Oncogenesis

Abstract

Monoclonal antibody PD4,which had being considered as specific tumor-antibody all along,was proved to be one against mycoplasma hyorhinis since its antigen was identified at molecular level.High prevalence rates of mycoplasma infections were demonstrated in gastric carcinoma and colon carcinoma through immunohistochemistry detection with MAb PD4.Further research indicated that mycoplasma hyorinis could greatly enhance the ability of MGC803 cell to form colonies on the soft agar,and this effect was inhibited by MAb PD4.In this article,we review the related literatures firstly,and then present the results of our work on exploring the relationship between mycoplasma and cancer.A conclusion was drawn:there are some correlations having been ignored between mycoplasmas infection and oncogenesis.Mechanism involved in oncogenesis by mycoplasmas remains to be elucidated.

I've found this website which talks a lot about mycoplasma being a bio-weapon, but there's a lot of information and references gathered over there: Mycoplasma Protection and Treatment Protocol

 

[Yas]

Reading this thread and the last Cs session, first thing that came to my mind was the correlation between dental plaque and atherosclerosis. Both conditions are characterized with building of a plaque on the teeth or arteries.

[...]

So i think there is a connection with infection. Maybe the infection spread during the dental procedure through the bloodstream and hide in the cardiovascular system, and made all that damage.

I also thought that people with root canal treatment might be more likely to get these infections. Mercola wrote articles on the subject, though he doesn't mention mycoplasma:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/16/why-you-should-avoid-root-canals-like-the-plague.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/18/dangers-of-root-canaled-teeth.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/31/root-canal-teeth.aspx

Fwiw...

 

[Altair]

Just wondering, if colloidal silver could replace the whole bunch of antibiotics. Its nano-particles are much smaller and probably could reach many tissues without killing good bacteria. Or perhaps colloidal silver in combination with herbs?

 

[Laura]

Just wondering, if colloidal silver could replace the whole bunch of antibiotics. Its nano-particles are much smaller and probably could reach many tissues without killing good bacteria. Or perhaps colloidal silver in combination with herbs?

Read how limited its effects are in the above cited articles. I've never had any serious issues solved by colloidal silver.

 

[Altair]

Just wondering, if colloidal silver could replace the whole bunch of antibiotics. Its nano-particles are much smaller and probably could reach many tissues without killing good bacteria. Or perhaps colloidal silver in combination with herbs?

Read how limited its effects are in the above cited articles. I've never had any serious issues solved by colloidal silver.

Thank you, Laura. I found one of the passages from the above cited articles:

We found a wide range of resistance and sensitivities with the compounds tested, two of which conflicted with previous findings (Table ​(Table3)3) indicating higher sensitivity of gram positive bacteria to goldenseal alkaloids (analogous to our commercial goldenseal) than of E. coli[25], and sensitivity of E. coli to colloidal silver by qualitative methods [26]. Growth of M. mycoides capri, E. coli, and B. subtilis was inhibited by all tested elderberry extracts, oregano oil, ethanol extract of oregano leaves, and fresh ethanol extract of goldenseal root. No inhibition was seen with aqueous extract of astragalus or calendula oil. Growth of M. mycoides capri and B. subtilis was inhibited by fresh ethanol extract of astragalus, whereas growth of E. coli was not. Similarly, M. mycoides capri and E. coli were inhibited by a commercial ethanol extract of thyme, but B. subtilis was unaffected. Only B. subtilis was inhibited by colloidal silver, and only M. mycoides capri was inhibited by fresh aqueous extract of goldenseal root. No inhibition was observed for any species with the extract solvents (i.e., molecular grade water, 95% ethanol, or olive oil).

Then perhaps a combination of collidal silver and antibiotics? Found an abstract from Synthesis and effect of silver nanoparticles on the antibacterial activity of different antibiotics against Staphylococcus aureus and Escherichia coli (_http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1549963407000469)

Abstract

Silver nanoparticles (Ag-NPs) have been known to have inhibitory and bactericidal effects. Resistance to antimicrobial agents by pathogenic bacteria has emerged in recent years and is a major health problem. The combination effects of Ag-NPs with the antibacterial activity of antibiotics have not been studied. Here, we report on the synthesis of metallic nanoparticles of silver using a reduction of aqueous Ag+ ion with the culture supernatants of Klebsiella pneumoniae. Also in this article these nanoparticles are evaluated for their part in increasing the antimicrobial activities of various antibiotics against Staphylococcus aureus and Escherichia coli. The antibacterial activities of penicillin G, amoxicillin, erythromycin, clindamycin, and vancomycin were increased in the presence of Ag-NPs against both test strains. The highest enhancing effects were observed for vancomycin, amoxicillin, and penicillin G against S. aureus.

 

[Gaby]

For those unfamiliar with the Hemochromatosis thread, it would be a good idea to check it out now:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20265.0.html

Testing for iron overload and chelating and/or decanting iron would increase the chance of dealing with these infections successfully.

Just a short note on anti-virals...

I checked more info on them on several Vademecums. In summary, ganciclovir is not available as pills in some countries, but in vials for parenteral use. It is very expensive and it has been linked with carcinogenic effects. The good thing is that it is very active against Citomegalovirus (CMV), a member of the herpes family. Another possible drawback is that it doesn't deal with other herpes viruses as good as other anti-virals. For those dealing with CMV infections, as confirmed by diagnostic tests or clinical signs, the drug could be considered or prescribed by their local physician. Sometimes the only format available would be intravenous treatment. Getting a prescription for gamciclovir when there is no active infection, as understood by mainstream medicine, would be very difficult, but not impossible. Or so it seems to me.

The alternative that Garth Nicolson was mentioning, famciclovir, is widely available, affordable, and it deals mainly with the usual herpes viruses.

So it seems that for the protocol, switching famciclovir as the main drug and leaving gamciclovir as the second option would be the rational thing to do:

Famciclovir 500mg three times per day for one or two weeks.

We have discussed the role of herpes viruses in latent infections, a small recap here:

http://www.sott.net/article/257631-On-viral-junk-DNA-a-DNA-enhancing-Ketogenic-diet-and-cometary-kicks

Herpes simplex virus is a widespread human pathogen and it goes right after our mitochondrial DNA. A latent viral infection might be driving the brain cell loss in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease.[6] Members of the herpes virus family, including cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr virus which most people have, can go after our mitochondrial DNA, causing neurodegenerative diseases by mitochondrial dysfunction. But a ketogenic diet - a diet based on animal fats- is the one thing that would help stabilize mitochondrial DNA since mitochondria runs the best on fat fuel. As it happens, Alzheimer's disease is the one condition where a ketogenic diet has a profound positive effect.

FWIW!

 

[MusicMan]

Just wondering, if colloidal silver could replace the whole bunch of antibiotics. Its nano-particles are much smaller and probably could reach many tissues without killing good bacteria. Or perhaps colloidal silver in combination with herbs?

A lot of bacteria are becoming resistant to antibiotics, so it is probably better to use a combination of herbs etc rather than just the one. More bang for your buck, so to speak.
And you have to be careful with the CS as your skin might turn blue-grey if you take too much.
Don't take it internally if you don't have to.
It's a jungle out there!

 

[MusicMan]

Reading this thread and the last Cs session, first thing that came to my mind was the correlation between dental plaque and atherosclerosis. Both conditions are characterized with building of a plaque on the teeth or arteries.

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_plaque

The main microorganisms in dental plaque is Streptococcus mutans
In atherosclerosis plaque Streptococcus mutans is also found

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22262633

Streptococcus mutans, a dental caries pathogen, also causes endocarditis and is detected in atheroscelerotic plaque. We investigated the potential for an invasive strain of S. mutans, OMZ175, to accelerate plaque growth in apolipoprotein E deficient (ApoE(null)) mice without and with balloon angioplasty (BA) injury, a model of restenosis. ApoE(null) mice were divided into 4 groups (N = 10), 2 with and 2 without BA. One each of the BA and non-BA groups was infected with S. mutans (Sm). S. mutans DNA, plaque area, inflammatory cell invasion, and Toll-like receptor (TLR) expression were measured at 6-20 weeks post-infection. S. mutans genomic DNA was detected in the aorta, liver, spleen, and heart. Plaque growth was significantly increased in infected mice with BA (Sm+BA) vs. those in the non-infected groups (p < 0.03). Plaque size was increased after infection without BA (Sm), but did not reach significance. Aortic specimens from both S. mutans and Sm+BA groups displayed increased numbers of macrophages, and TLR4 expression was increased in BA mice. In conclusion, S. mutans infection accelerated plaque growth, macrophage invasion, and TLR4 expression after angioplasty. S. mutans may also be associated with atherosclerotic plaque growth in non-injured arteries.

So, after all the saturated fats are not even close to cause any damage to the arteries. The pathogen infections are, and of course combined with a bad diet.

I have one friend that have a big dental problems. His teeth were heavily decayed. He removed them all , and he put a implants or whatever it was. Shortly after that he developed atherosclerosis and he need some medical interventions. He never had any cardiovascular problems before.

So i think there is a connection with infection. Maybe the infection spread during the dental procedure through the bloodstream and hide in the cardiovascular system, and made all that damage.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1594668/

Accumulated evidence suggests that oral bacterial pathogens are associated with several kinds of systemic diseases, such as infective endocarditis (IE), cardiovascular diseases, bacterial pneumonia, low birth weight, and diabetes mellitus (12). Those associations are speculated to be initiated by transient or prolonged bacteremia caused by oral infection: i.e., from professional dental treatments and daily oral care practices such as tooth brushing and flossing, as well as from food chewing, which possibly induces dissemination of oral bacteria into the bloodstream (21). Oral streptococcal species are major components of the oral microflora that are known to occasionally cause bacteremia and IE (13). Streptococcus mutans, a major pathogenic agent of dental caries, has also been isolated from the blood of patients with IE, strongly suggesting a close relationship of the pathogen with IE (5, 23, 24).

The recent development of several molecular techniques has enabled prompt identification of targeted bacterial species in specimens with significantly improved specificity and sensitivity. PCR methods using primers constructed with a species-specific nucleotide alignment are widely used for the detection of specific species. In addition, broad-range eubacterial PCR with amplification of bacterial DNA and subsequent direct sequencing is considered to be a reliable diagnostic tool (18, 19).

Dental caries and chronic marginal periodontitis are two major infectious diseases clinically encountered in the field of dentistry. Recently, several studies have reported detection of periodontal pathogens in cardiovascular specimens from patients using a PCR method, suggesting relationships between oral microorganisms and systemic cardiovascular diseases (20). However, there are no reports of oral streptococci detected in those tissues, especially regarding cariogenic S. mutans, which is a potential cause of IE. In the present study, we analyzed the presence of streptococcal species in diseased heart valve and atheromatous plaque specimens, as well as in dental plaque samples from the same subjects.

_http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40765461_Antibiotic_sensitivity_pattern_of_Streptococcus_mutans_against_commercially_available_drugs

Pranay Jain*1 and Ram Kumar Pundir
Journal of Pharmacy Research 01/2009;
Source: DOAJ
ABSTRACT Streptococcus mutans is the leading cause of dental caries (tooth decay) worldwide and is considered to be the most cariogenic of all of the oral streptococci. In the present investigation, the evaluation of current efficacy of 15 commercially available antibacterial drugs in India was carried out against three strains of S. mutans by Kirby-Bauer disc diffusion method and for also determining which drug should be prescribed by the dentists exhibiting minimal side effects and maximum inhibitory activity. Of the 15 antibacterial drugs evaluated against all the threestrains of S. mutans, amoxicillin and penicillin G were highly effective in terms of maximum diameter of growth inhibition zones followed by chloramphenicol. Nine drugs namely, ofloxacin, doxycycline, tetracycline, chlortetracycline, erythromycin, vancomycin, clindamycin, methicillin and gentamycin were found to be moderately effective against the three strains of S. mutans. Metronidazole, ciprofloxacin and rifampicin were not effective against the bacteria as they did not show any inhibitory activity.

Antibiotic sensitivity pattern of Streptococcus mutans against commercially available drugs - ResearchGate. Available from: _http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40765461_Antibiotic_sensitivity_pattern_of_Streptococcus_mutans_against_commercially_available_drugs [accessed Jul 21, 2015].

Konstantin, thank you for this information.
I also have a friend who has had dental implants, and he has informed me that he now has varicose veins.
I did not make the connection before I saw your post!

 

[Gaby]

Other than chelating iron, heavy metals also come to mind:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12149.0

Today we have to change our perceptions about infections and infectious processes. We need to shift away from the competing paradigms of pathogen vs. terrain. We need to deal simultaneously with pathogen, terrain and poison. Mercury provides the ideal environment for viruses, bacteria, fungi and yeast infections. Though most are in denial, we are being overrun by mercury pollution, which is everywhere in the air, water, food, vaccines, dental amalgam and even beauty products. Practitioners are now looking at autism as an issue of both “infections and toxins.” Interestingly doctors involved with the treatment of autism with heavy metal chelation find that when they go after viruses they get heavy metal excretions. When they go after metals they find that they are getting rid of viruses, bacteria, and fungus as well.

Interesting that forum members have experimented with chelation since at least 2007:

Detoxification: Heavy Metals, Mercury and how to get rid of them
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,7765.0.html

Although not the cure, as several have done heavy metal and iron chelation throughout the years, it should still increase the chance of healing.

For those interested in exploring natural remedies, it seems that medicinal mushrooms sounds very hopeful:

Novel Antimicrobials from Mushrooms
_http://www.zerbos.com/common/news/store_news.asp?task=store_news&SID_store_news=71&storeID=5DDC50E796734E49AEDE162FFC8CABF9

by Paul Stamets

Although most healthcare professionals skilled in the art of botanical medicine are aware of the immune enhancing properties of certain mushrooms and other fungi, few may realize that mushrooms are rich sources of natural antibiotics. In these, the cell wall glucans are well-known for their immunomodulatory properties, but few medical practitioners are aware that many of the externalized secondary metabolites — extracellular secretions by the mycelium — combat bacteria1,2 and viruses.3-6 Additionally, the exudates from mushroom mycelia are active against protozoa such as the parasite that causes malaria, Plasmodium falciparum,7,8 and other microorganisms.9

Fungi and animals are more closely related to one another than either is to plants, diverging from plants more than 460 million years ago.10 Diseases of plants typically do not afflict humans whereas diseases of fungi do.11 Since humans (animals) and fungi share common microbial antagonists such as Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa, humans can benefit from the natural defensive strategies of fungi that produce antibiotics to fight infection from microorganisms. Hence, it is not surprising our most significant anti-bacterial antibiotics have been derived from fungi.12

[...]

Two other mushrooms from the family Polyporaceae are notable — the tinder fungus (Fomes fomentarius (L.:Fr.) J. Kickx.) and the birch polypore (Piptoporus betulinus (Fr.) P. Karst.) — both of which the famous 5,300 year old Otzi, or Ice Man, had with him when his body was discovered in the high alpine mountains on the border of Italy and Austria.20 Scientists believe his use of these mushrooms was likely for their antimicrobial properties21 and/or for tinder.22 The woody tinder fungus has been shown to inhibit the growth of P. aeruginosa and S. marcescens, while the birch fungus was effective against these two bacteria, and, further, exhibited strong inhibitory activity against S. aureus, B. subtilis, and M. smegmatis, a cousin to the pathogenic Mycobacterium tuberculosis.18

That the Ice Man had these polypore fungi as components of his mobile pharmacopoeia strongly suggests that these mushrooms provided medicine for Paleolithic Europeans, as well as a method to transport and start fire.* Since autopsies of the Ice Man showed he was suffering from intestinal pathogens, as well as an arrowhead imbedded in his shoulder, his presumed use of these mushrooms appears well-warranted.

[...]

Medicinal mushrooms have a long and rich history of use. More than 2,000 years ago, Dioscorides knew that F. officinalis fought "consumption;" the Ice Man had F. fomentarius and P. betulinus with him; and the healers — even shamans of Paleolithic peoples — knew and used mushrooms as powerful medicines to fight illnesses. In the world of the pre-modern shaman, spirits caused diseases, and medicinal compounds were administered to appease or treat them. Although science now knows that pathogenic microorganisms cause many diseases, it is not known whether Paleolithic peoples had an intuitive or specific knowledge of the nature of infection from microbes. Whether disease is caused by "spirits" or invisible microbes, both views hold in common an underlying cause of the unseen universe.17 In the future that shared vision may extend to using the same tools as a practical treatment for microbial infection.

{Interesting take in view of the most recent Cs session!}

The mushroom genome stands out as a virtually untapped resource for novel anti-microbials. The declining ancestral forests of the Pacific Northwest harbor novel mushroom species and strains that occur nowhere else in the world. Focusing on these fungi may lead to novel myco-medicines, hopefully before the opportunity is forever lost as old growth temperate rainforests are converted into tree plantations. A rich fungal genome is an essential component of our natural heritage and may be society’s greatest protection against microbial diseases. The intelligent use of these fungi can potentiate the host defenses of both people and planet.

Acknowledgments: The author thanks Andrew Weil, M.D.; Donald Abrams, M.D.; Reinhold Poder, Ph.D.; Christopher Hobbs, L.Ac., AHG; Dusty Yao; Frank Pirano, Ph.D.; Solomon Wasser, Ph.D.; and the peer reviewers of HerbalGram.

Paul Stamets is the author of five books, including Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms, a mushroom cultivation textbook used worldwide. On the editorial boards of the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms and Mushroom, the Journal, he also serves as an advisor to the Program for Integrative Medicine, University of Arizona. His company, Fungi Perfecti, purveys Certified Organic materials to grow gourmet and medicinal mushrooms for personal use or professional cultivation. He may be reached by email at <mycomedia@aol.com>, or at .

His 42 references available at: http://www.zerbos.com/common/news/store_news.asp?task=store_news&SID_store_news=71&storeID=5DDC50E796734E49AEDE162FFC8CABF9