AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[lainey]

I think I'll be sticking with my antibiotics and herbal/nutritional adjuncts. I don't have time to mess around with unproven stuff.

I think that's a wise choice - too much seems to depend on the practitioner. What if the practitioner is having a bad day? What if he/she is preoccupied with a set of personal issues?

Its all very interesting but there just isn't a "go to" that you can rely upon.

It kind of makes me think about the whole spirit release thing putting a band aid over underlying problems. It just seems too easy to be able to buy a machine and zap yourself healthy. I'm sure there are many interesting benefits and lots to be learned but I don't think it's a quick fix.

 

[WIN 52]

I think I'll be sticking with my antibiotics and herbal/nutritional adjuncts. I don't have time to mess around with unproven stuff.

I think that's a wise choice - too much seems to depend on the practitioner. What if the practitioner is having a bad day? What if he/she is preoccupied with a set of personal issues?

Its all very interesting but there just isn't a "go to" that you can rely upon.

It kind of makes me think about the whole spirit release thing putting a band aid over underlying problems. It just seems too easy to be able to buy a machine and zap yourself healthy. I'm sure there are many interesting benefits and lots to be learned but I don't think it's a quick fix.

Yes, but you must not rely on one particular method. Like a good fighter you must have a great combination punch like a one two three four and even five to get the knockout.

Just a thought, all the consumption of low grade fat from level one sources may be a concern. Would it possibly be more efficient to only consume fat from level two sources? Pigs may be close to humans in many ways, which makes me think that food from these may take less energy to convert into fuel for the body than say potatoes or olive oil, after all, isn't it all about conserving energy?

 

[Gaby]

A correspondent just sent me this article as well:

Improvement of Idiopathic Cardiomyopathy After Colon Clear
_http://www.cardiologyres.org/index.php/Cardiologyres/article/view/403/428

Curiously, the study above was done by an Egyptian research team and they report a case study where a very sick woman healed with camel milk alone.

Here is the relevant quote:

The results of this study were further compared and confirmed also by the clinical study of one female patient aged 49.5 years who developed myocardititis and cardiomyopathy manifested with ventricular extra-systoles following a long history of H. pylori dyspepsia. She was advised for AICD insertion because of risk on her life but she was not able to afford the cost of this procedure, and she disappeared to reappear after 1 month symptom-less; she mentioned that she just followed camel milk intake with honey for 1 month. Her ECG was restored normal and her left ventricular ejection fraction improved from 31% to 49%.

A citation from the study:

Camel milk lactoferrin reduces the proliferation of colorectal cancer cells and exerts antioxidant and DNA damage inhibitory activities.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23768340

Habib HM1, Ibrahim WH, Schneider-Stock R, Hassan HM.

Food Chem. 2013 Nov 1;141(1):148-52. doi: 10.1016/j.foodchem.2013.03.039. Epub 2013 Mar 21.

Abstract

Lactoferrin (Lf), the main iron-binding protein of milk, has biological activities. We have evaluated the potential of camel milk lactoferrin for its ability to inhibit the proliferation of the colon cancer cell line, HCT-116, in vitro, DNA damage and its antioxidant activities for the first time. The antioxidant capacity of Lf was evaluated by different assays, including ferric-reducing/antioxidant power assay (FRAP), free radical-scavenging activity (DPPH), nitric oxide (NO) radical-scavenging assay, total antioxidant activity and DNA damage, compared with vitamin C and rutin.

 

[Shared Joy]

No those were not the threads I was thinking of, truth seeker. But thanks for your help. If I remember correctly, they were from maybe 2007.

I still have a bunch of EDTA from the iron protocol.

About the Sycrometer of Hulda Clark, I never tried to build and use one because the detection process is quite involved. You need microscope slides of all pathogens you're looking for, and tissue samples also to put on the plates to know where the pathogens are. FWIW.

Hi SeekinTruth,

I would like to ask you to advise about how you did use the EDTA, that is the chelation protocol.
As I had no Herx reactions after the 10 days of doing the new protocol, I think that the problem lies behind the biofilms.
Thank you!
Joy

 

[shijing]

Hi SeekinTruth,

I would like to ask you to advise about how you did use the EDTA, that is the chelation protocol.
As I had no Herx reactions after the 10 days of doing the new protocol, I think that the problem lies behind the biofilms.
Thank you!
Joy

Shared Joy, before anyone answers any further questions, can you respond to RedFox's question here? There are several things that can go wrong if you begin the protocol without understanding it fully, and it's in all of our best interest to make sure that anyone who begins it does so correctly for their own safety.

 

[Alana]

Hi SeekinTruth,

I would like to ask you to advise about how you did use the EDTA, that is the chelation protocol.
As I had no Herx reactions after the 10 days of doing the new protocol, I think that the problem lies behind the biofilms.
Thank you!
Joy

Shared Joy, before anyone answers any further questions, can you respond to RedFox's question here? There are several things that can go wrong if you begin the protocol without understanding it fully, and it's in all of our best interest to make sure that anyone who begins it does so correctly for their own safety.

You can also use the search function of the forum, the EDTA protocol was already discussed, especially in the hemochromatosis thread.

 

[shijing]

I had originally posted this video on the pyroluria thread last year, but I just watched it again and think it's relevant enough to this thread to repost again here:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...hA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I really like this video, because it ties together several things I've been trying to gain a better understanding of: infection, pyroluria, and methylation polymorphisms. I think that anyone who is looking seriously at the infection issue should watch the entire video carefully, but I'll mention a few of the highlights:

Klinghardt says that there are two causes of pyroluria that he's seen in his clinical practice:

• early psychological trauma
• chronic infection

He says that between the two, the latter is more common, but they are not mutually exclusive. He mentions that in cases of chronic infection, microorganisms that have lived with us symbiotically for a very long time without causing serious problems are starting to do so now because of two environmental insults which have increased sharply in the past few decades:

• chemical toxicity
• EMF toxicity

Pyroluria is an epigenetic phenomenon -- it can be passed down from a parent who has experienced one of the initiating factors mentioned above to children as well as grandchildren. Because of this, he hypothesizes that microorganisms trigger epigenetic changes which make their host environment more hospitable -- in the case of pyroluria, these involve enzyme blockages which result in abnormal excretion of zinc, manganese and B6. He also discusses this in the context of Amy Yasko's work on methylation blockages (1:00 and briefly at the end).

This aggressive excretion of zinc and manganese causes the body to substitute less desirable heavy metals as enzyme cofactors. I had thought that it was only possible to substitute a metal which was close to zinc on the periodic table (like nickel), but he says some of the most common substitutions are lead, mercury and cadmium. For this reason, one important part of his protocol involves supplementing with heavy amounts of zinc (250-400 mg), manganese (20-50 mg), and biotin (10 mg). His discussion of the protocol in the video is much more extensive.

Common physical signs of pyroluria are discussed beginning at 55:00:

• China doll look/"Indigo" baby
• Eczema, skin eruptions, fungal infections, herpes virus outbreaks (perioral, index finger)
• Thin fine hair, fine nails, deformed toenails early after birth which gradually self-correct
• Bloated belly
• Don’t like to move (knee/hip/ankle pain)
• Frequently get hurt (“Mr. Bump”) due to ataxia
• Anal itch/frequent parasites
• Stress intolerant
• Difficulty sleeping
• White spots on fingernails

For those with a historical bent, he also has an interesting anecdote toward the end about how the Russian general Korzakov protected his troops with a homeopathic treatment during their battle against Napoleon -- he lost only 5% of his troops, while Napoleon's died in significant numbers.

 

[Shared Joy]

I thought, maybe I might not have the "plankton" form of parasites which are flee floating, just the biofilm form?

I used years ago some Serrapeptase when I first encounter the biofilm info and it helped.

So, maybe, for those who have no Herx at first stage this could be a sign that biofilms should be disrupted first?? Or shall I try without the anti allergic drug ?

Note: I had no debilitating symptoms lately, just bothered by memory problems and kind of not being able to focus as long as needed.

Any suggestion is welcome, thanks!

Joy

Shared Joy, have you read the entire thread?

Hi RedFox,
I read the entire thread, but there might be some minor info which escaped my attention.

Again, I am past now the metronidazole days (I took no cortisone) and there were no Herx reactions.
It's very hot here, so yes some sweating and inability to get asleep quickly happened, but apart from these, nothing.

My concern is that I might just destroy my friendly biota and rebuilt it just in vain, as the critters are well behind their walls. I'm not exactly a wealthy person and these supplements, etc are costly here. I can't even imagine getting camel milk anyway!

Several other members have hinted since at treating the biofilm first, but I thought to try out the protocol and share my experience. Maybe others would have the same results and this could help them to find the next step.

So far I just kept gathering info on biofilms. I even consulted an MD who had done EDTA chelation. I know that this procedure is not without risks and the organism should be replenished with minerals, etc.

This would be all for the moment. And thank you all for all this info and...any suggesttions are welcome!

Joy

 

[RedFox]

Hi RedFox,
I read the entire thread, but there might be some minor info which escaped my attention.

Again, I am past now the metronidazole days (I took no cortisone) and there were no Herx reactions.
It's very hot here, so yes some sweating and inability to get asleep quickly happened, but apart from these, nothing.

My concern is that I might just destroy my friendly biota and rebuilt it just in vain, as the critters are well behind their walls. I'm not exactly a wealthy person and these supplements, etc are costly here. I can't even imagine getting camel milk anyway!

Several other members have hinted since at treating the biofilm first, but I thought to try out the protocol and share my experience. Maybe others would have the same results and this could help them to find the next step.

So far I just kept gathering info on biofilms. I even consulted an MD who had done EDTA chelation. I know that this procedure is not without risks and the organism should be replenished with minerals, etc.

This would be all for the moment. And thank you all for all this info and...any suggesttions are welcome!

Joy

Apologies if I missed this, Shared Joy, but what condition in particular are you trying to treat with this protocol? If you have no Herx reactions, maybe you are one of those lucky people who aren't targeted by pathogens so much? Why do it at all? Also, did you adjust the doxycycline to your weight?

You mentioned your practice here, so am I understanding you right, and you are a doctor or a health practitioner of some other kind?

 

[Laura]

I read the entire thread, but there might be some minor info which escaped my attention.

Again, I am past now the metronidazole days (I took no cortisone) and there were no Herx reactions.
It's very hot here, so yes some sweating and inability to get asleep quickly happened, but apart from these, nothing.

My concern is that I might just destroy my friendly biota and rebuilt it just in vain, as the critters are well behind their walls. I'm not exactly a wealthy person and these supplements, etc are costly here. I can't even imagine getting camel milk anyway!

First of all, it is not a protocol that you just give a try to one antibiotic and determine that nothing is going on. As the numerous papers indicate, depending on the critters (assuming you have them), you have to find the right antibiotic. If, after trying four or 5, you have no reactions, then you can probably assume you don't have any critters OR that they are so protected in their biofilms that you can't get to them.

The big question is: do you have a condition that indicates strongly that you might need to try the protocol? If you do not, then you are needlessly messing around with your biota balance and can really mess things up. If you DO have a condition, and neither the doxy nor the metro was effective, then you need to try one or more of the other suggested antibiotics.

Secondly, this is NOT a protocol that, once you have a reaction and know there is something going on, that you can just do it a bit and assume you've whipped the critters. As the papers indicate, it MUST BE CONTINUED FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER, CONSISTENTLY for results. This is a long term commitment, not a game. And you need to have a reason to even contemplate it.

 

[Shared Joy]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY ANo paleo and INFECTION?

I read the entire thread, but there might be some minor info which escaped my attention.

Again, I am past now the metronidazole days (I took no cortisone) and there were no Herx reactions.
It's very hot here, so yes some sweating and inability to get asleep quickly happened, but apart from these, nothing.

My concern is that I might just destroy my friendly biota and rebuilt it just in vain, as the critters are well behind their walls. I'm not exactly a wealthy person and these supplements, etc are costly here. I can't even imagine getting camel milk anyway!

First of all, it is not a protocol that you just give a try to one antibiotic and determine that nothing is going on. As the numerous papers indicate, depending on the critters (assuming you have them), you have to find the right antibiotic. If, after trying four or 5, you have no reactions, then you can probably assume you don't have any critters OR that they are so protected in their biofilms that you can't get to them.

The big question is: do you have a condition that indicates strongly that you might need to try the protocol? If you do not, then you are needlessly messing around with your biota balance and can really mess things up. If you DO have a condition, and neither the doxy nor the metro was effective, then you need to try one or more of the other suggested antibiotics.

Secondly, this is NOT a protocol that, once you have a reaction and know there is something going on, that you can just do it a bit and assume you've whipped the critters. As the papers indicate, it MUST BE CONTINUED FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER, CONSISTENTLY for results. This is a long term commitment, not a game. And you need to have a reason to even contemplate it.

Hi Laura, Redfox and All,

thank you for your reply and concern. I explained in an earlier post that what prompted me to try this protocol is that I noticed that I started to forget a lot and can't maintain my attention in certain circumstances. Furthermore my grandma had Alzheimer, my parents died of cancer and aneurysm, so I might have inherited something.

I had systemic inflammation before, so I could barely walk when aggravated, always bloated after every meal, with excess weight - all these turned worse in a period of time when I had several jobs to sustain myself. An MD even told me I will end up in a wheelchair if I don't undergo surgery.

Luckily I found this forum. After I did the transit to paleo and, after that, to keto, took some supplements,etc., my joint pain and gut inflammation subsided, lost a lot of weight, thus regaining my flexibility.

But I have this problem with memory and attention which concerns me. I wanted so much to advance in learning - there is so much information I went through and when I came back to it, I noticed that it is not fixed. I know that knowledge must be applied in order to gain awareness, so it's hard work. I have to return again and again to the sources. I spend most of my day studying, studying in order to get prepared for each client.

This is why I tried the protocol.
And this is why I asked for help. I am willing to walk all the 7 miles, but when changes are necessary who should I consult but you all?

Thank you,
Joy

Yes I am aware that I have to stick to the protocol and if I quit, the bacteria could take over more virulently.
I also know that one has to try other antibiotics, just don't know which one to choose yet.

But reading the articles posted, there was mentioned that there were cases when antibiotics which were ineffective before disrupting the biofilm, became highly effective afterwards. This is why I started to gather information on this procedure

 

[Laura]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY ANo paleo and INFECTION?

thank you for your reply and concern. I explained in an earlier post that what prompted me to try this protocol is that I noticed that I started to forget a lot and can't maintain my attention in certain circumstances. Furthermore my grandma had Alzheimer, my parents died of cancer and aneurysm, so I might have inherited something.

I had systemic inflammation before, so I could barely walk when aggravated, always bloated after every meal, with excess weight - all these turned worse in a period of time when I had several jobs to sustain myself. An MD even told me I will end up in a wheelchair if I don't undergo surgery.

Luckily I found this forum. After I did the transit to paleo and, after that, to keto, took some supplements,etc., my joint pain and gut inflammation subsided, lost a lot of weight, thus regaining my flexibility.

But I have this problem with memory and attention which concerns me. I wanted so much to advance in learning - there is so much information I went through and when I came back to it, I noticed that it is not fixed. I know that knowledge must be applied in order to gain awareness, so it's hard work. I have to return again and again to the sources. I spend most of my day studying, studying in order to get prepared for each client.

This is why I tried the protocol.
And this is why I asked for help. I am willing to walk all the 7 miles, but when changes are necessary who should I consult but you all?

Okay, a memory problem. Yikes. Well, that's not terribly abnormal past a certain age but I know what you mean: darned unpleasant and a real concern.

All things considered, I don't think that a memory problem is necessarily something that would mandate this protocol. I think that if it was me, I'd look into other, less risky and less brutal therapies. For example, taking boron and other minerals including magnesium and potassium, the B vitamins, making sure you get plenty of proper fats including CLA, fish oil, phosphatidyl choline (eat egg yolks!) and so forth. Possibly adding colostrum/lactoferrin to your daily supplements and MOST OF ALL, do something to exercise the brain: like learn to play a musical instrument and practice daily. Sleeping in full darkness for the correct number of hours is also very therapeutic.

There are a number of products available that are specific to boosting brain power/memory and researching this area would be helpful for you. But it really doesn't seem that you have good justification for undertaking this protocol for autoimmune and related conditions!

 

[RedFox]

fwiw I know a little about memory/neurological problems having lived with them for the longest time (age related may be different?).
Adding to Laura's suggestions, have a look at the following (both help immensely with nerve regeneration/regulation):
Cortisol and Chronic Stress - Cortisol Resistance (another reason why proper sleep in darkness is so important)
MTHFR mutations - the protocol here will most likely be useful for anyone with nerve damage and myelin problems. Theoretically it should be useful for memory problems too.

If you have any success or problems, perhaps it's worth starting a topic on after some time experimenting?

 

[Shared Joy]

Apologies if I missed this, Shared Joy, but what condition in particular are you trying to treat with this protocol? If you have no Herx reactions, maybe you are one of those lucky people who aren't targeted by pathogens so much? Why do it at all? Also, did you adjust the doxycycline to your weight?

You mentioned your practice here, so am I understanding you right, and you are a doctor or a health practitioner of some other kind?

Hi RedFox,
just to answer to all your questions: I did some years ago a bio-film removal and some herbal antibiotics and I felt better, but with relapses, so I thought that this protocol will solve more thoroughly the problem (memory, attention, occasional joint pain).

I wish I were "a lucky one" but so far life has demonstrated me that there's no free lunch :( And I'm OK with it, I don't feel sorry for myself, I've always been the guinea pig when there was something new to be tried.

I don't have to add more antibiotics as I am slim. And I am a psychologist, practitioner of Chinese sports, having also knowledge of the Chinese medicine, philosophy.
Well, this is it, in a nutshell.

Maybe I should replenish now with probiotics and try what Laura suggested.

In the meantime I keep looking and if I find something new, then I'll post.

Thank you.
Joy

 

[JEEP]

I'm short on time, so will be brief:

To Joy re memory problems/possible alzheimers - have you looked into coconut oil? Don't have the link handy of video, but doctor whose father was experiencing beginnings of alzheimers did her own research and concluded that the meds being developed to treat it were extremely similar to coconut oil. She started giving her dad 2 tbsps daily & within a year, his alzheimers was gone.

Shijing - TY for reposting the video; can't wait to view it as it sounds very intriguing, but will have to wait because we're leaving tomorrow for PA then on to Cape May, NJ for family wedding. But get this - there's a Whole Foods market in Collingswood, NJ which is only an hour and 45 min from Cape May and it has camel milk! Interesting enough, my husband's family lived in an adjacent part of NJ before moving to PA so he is somewhat familiar w/ that part of Jersey. We're going to get the milk on the way back to PA.

Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the effort being put forth to resolving chronic health issues/challenges. So refreshing to come here for real solutions instead of the bogus treatments mandated by Drugs-R-Us Big Pharma.