Bart D. Ehrman books - bouquets and daggers

I'm pressing on with reading the book even though I have to take sick-bag breaks now and then. There is something truly disturbing about the way he approaches this topic and it was only this morning that I realized what it was: the suggestive way he constructs his sentences. It could be unconscious, a sort of defense mechanism activated, or he could be fully aware of it.

Also, I began to wonder a bit after reading his fuller account of his personal experiences vis a vis the church, his conversion and de-conversion. I still haven't fully parsed it all, but right about now, he's showing some strong signals of Authoritarianism (very ugly) and Dunning-Kruger.

Added: While reading his other books, he just came across as such a NICE person, very empathic, etc. But while reading the intro to "Did Jesus Exist?", the impression was of a very small-minded, arrogant, mean-spirited individual. There was something of the "dog in the manger" flavor to it all. It was like "this is MY field, *I* am THE EXPERT and I've got NYT bestsellers to prove it, not to mention my degree and my fundie credentials that I trot out at every opportunity; so YOU cretins who disagree with me, BEGONE!" Oh, of course, he pays lip service to academic "fairness" but we all know that academia is so corrupt that any view that the "consensus of academics" should be the norm is a total fraud. How many of that consensus got together and campaigned against the US torturing people?
 
Laura, I obviously don't know whether you're acquainted with the review made by Michael J. Kruger, the Associate Professor of New Testament and Academic Dean at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC. It can be found here: _http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/jesus-interrupted.php

It helped me to understand that Ehrman went from being a preacher into becoming an 'alternative' scholar and then turned back into preaching mode again -- but now for a gospel and creed of his own making, in which he considers himself the ultimate champion and authority.

Kruger ends his thorough review with a summation of all the ironies he found in Ehrman's works and in his Werdegang (development).
 
Palinurus said:
Laura, I obviously don't know whether you're acquainted with the review made by Michael J. Kruger, the Associate Professor of New Testament and Academic Dean at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC. It can be found here: _http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/jesus-interrupted.php

It helped me to understand that Ehrman went from being a preacher into becoming an 'alternative' scholar and then turned back into preaching mode again -- but now for a gospel and creed of his own making, in which he considers himself the ultimate champion and authority.

Kruger ends his thorough review with a summation of all the ironies he found in Ehrman's works and in his Werdegang (development).

Yup. What's crazy is that Ehrman spends so much time and effort convincing us that the "Bible is not to be trusted" and then, in this current book, the MAJOR portion of his defense of the historicity of Jesus is from that very same Bible!

Well, it's all good, however, because I am getting a LOT of useful info for my own book that will probably get kicked off pretty soon. I'm almost able to set long enough to do something useful.

But what really bugs me are his frequent snotty asides about who does or does not have the "qualifications" to opine on the topic.
 
Laura said:
What's crazy is that Ehrman spends so much time and effort convincing us that the "Bible is not to be trusted" and then, in this current book, the MAJOR portion of his defense of the historicity of Jesus is from that very same Bible!

Well, it's all good, however, because I am getting a LOT of useful info for my own book that will probably get kicked off pretty soon. I'm almost able to set long enough to do something useful.

But what really bugs me are his frequent snotty asides about who does or does not have the "qualifications" to opine on the topic.

Adding to this.

After finishing reading almost ALL of Philo and recognizing a whole lot of Christian theology invented by him, PLUS the neo-Pythagorean influence on Philo, I moved on to Robert Price's "The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man." GREAT READ!

What it does is make Ehrman look rather pathetic. He clings so tightly to his text criticism and his expertise in it, when he really ought to move on to higher criticism, i.e. historical criticism, form criticism etc. At this point, his justifications for the existence of Jesus as a historical person as described, more or less, in the Bible, seem nothing short of pathetic.

Another thing that bugs me: Ehrman obviously has no knowledge of psychopathology; he's always projecting his own inner landscape onto his subject, and from his perspective, certainly, none of the texts have been deliberately, MALICIOUSLY, altered or created out of whole cloth as a fraud.

Well, I'm not sure they were either, but I'm really, really wondering about the redactions of the book of Mark.

Anyway, Price is good. I'll read Carrier next.
 
I've just posted a review of Ehrman's latest book on amazon as follows:

Cataclysmic Lack of Erudition, January 6, 2015
By Laura Knight-Jadczyk (France)
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth (Paperback)

I've been a fan of Ehrman's for some time now; I have all his books, and some I have bought extra copies to give as gifts. I even recommended him highly to an online forum I participate in which gets about 3 million page views per month. Shortly after this glowing recommendation of Ehrman, his book "Did Jesus Exist" arrived and I began to read. Imagine my shock - turning into horror - as I read a respected New Testament scholar writing ad hominem polemic like a middle school brat.

My image of Ehrman was forever shattered. I thought he really was that guy who was just after the truth, the guy who was so hurt by the unfairness of life on earth that he just couldn't stick with a god who didn't handle things better; the guy who questioned his own good luck being able to eat barbecued steak and drink fancy wines, and collect his nice paycheck which paid for his lovely lifestyle, his trips to conferences and seminars underwritten by generous academic funding (I know the life, I'm married to an academic, now professor emeritus), while so many people on the planet go to bed hungry or go to sleep on the floor because they have no bed; anyway, yeah, that guy who demonstrated such refined and elevated sensibilities with a lot of this sort of discourse sprinkled in amongst his previous books. The first thing that popped into my mind as I was reading, aghast, was that this guy was definitely showing so serious a lack of class I finally understood why he repeatedly and lovingly describes his engagement with steaks and wine and living the elegant life of an academic: that's the only thing that matters to him.

The Truth obviously doesn't matter to Ehrman. After I moved past that embarrassing concentrated polemic against some very fine researchers (I love Frank Zindler, Robert Price, Richard Carrier and Earl Doherty), things only got worse. I suppose that if Ehrman had anything intelligent or erudite to say, it might have salvaged the book even though I would never again view him as a nice - or even ethical - individual. But that didn't happen. The errors, fallacies, failure of logic, and outright WRONG statements just piled higher and higher. I admit, I ALMOST threw the book in the trash when I read that astonishing claim that the Romans didn't keep records, but I stayed my hand so that I could keep marking up the copy with references to clear refutations of the nonsense he was spouting.

I'm serious: there were HUNDREDS of errors! What was so shocking to me was to realize that this man had no classical training, or what is known as erudition, AT ALL! There I was, recovering from a broken hip, lying on the chaise longue with the tea tray on one side and five stacks of books on the other, most of which I had read during my convalescence. Some of these books I was re-reading, like Thucydides, Tacitus, Sallust, the Plinys, Cato the Elder, Cicero, Dio Cassius, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Josephus, Philo, etc. (It just seemed like a broken hip was a good reason to do that.) But additionally, I had also just completed Syme's magisterial two volume commentary on Tacitus, following on his seminal "The Roman Revolution" and Burkert's excellent survey of Orphism. The point is, I know a bit about classical Greece and Rome and when I read the astonishingly twisted or downright false claims Ehrman made in respect of historical facts OUTSIDE of Christianity, my heart fell into my stomach and I realized that I would have to re-think everything I had ever thought about Ehrman and his vaunted "expert status."

This book, "Did Jesus Exist", is so bad, so misleading, so "not even wrong", as Pauli would have said, that I have to sadly say that it's only usefulness is as an example of, as Richard Carrier says, "How Not to Defend the Historicity of Jesus"; barring that, if an ice age comes, I'll use it to start fires.

Speaking of Carrier et al, I highly recommend the book "Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth" which addresses in detail (with proper scholarly references and citations), many of the horrifying failures of logic and erudition exhibited by Ehrman. A few other excellent books that anyone interested in these topics should have in the stack beside their chaise longue would be Price's "The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man", "The Amazing Colossal Apostle", F. C. Baur's two volume "Paul, the Apostle of Jesus Christ", books by Richard Carrier and Earl Doherty, and another great find my husband made for me while searching for books to feed my voracious convalescent appetite for reading: James Tabor's "Paul and Jesus: How the Apostle Transformed Christianity". The list could go on, but you can check bibliographies and footnotes for further reading.

Finally, coming back to my amazement at the incredible shrinking brain of Bart D. Ehrman, I would like to think that the nice guy I saw through his works actually exists and that what we are seeing here is some other problem, perhaps neurological. My neighbor started talking this same way some years back and within two years, she was dead. The doctor who did the autopsy said that her brain had literally melted in her skull. The reason I mention this is because maybe what is revealed here is something like early onset Alzheimer's? Maybe Bart didn't lie deliberately. Maybe he isn't acting like a complete nincompoop on purpose? Maybe he is ill and doesn't yet know it? After all, scientific studies have been done that show that the incompetent lack the insight to perceive their own incompetence; it's called the "Dunning-Kruger Effect". Maybe we are looking at something like that? Bart's mental competence has deteriorated and part of that deterioration includes an inability to even realize how bad his thinking actually is? If anyone who knows him reads this, I urge you to encourage Bart to make an appointment with a good neurologist.

Well, it's either that or the career path he has followed, that of a glorified copy-editor of a narrow selection of ancient texts, has so limited his intellectual horizons that he is suffering from a hardening of the categories. It's sad, but people like this should not be in a position of influence, and most definitely should not be teaching young people anything; he's a bad example as an academic and a human being as far as I can see from his "Did Jesus Exist". Cataclysmic awfulness all the way around.
 
Thanks for suggestions Laura,your effort and direction to upgrade our knowledge.You are a fascinating person.
 
I enjoyed reading that too.
Currently reading 'Jesus interrupted". Thanks for pointing us all (again) to more information.
It never occurred to me of reading the bible 'horizontaly'. THAT was/is an eyeopener. Big Thank you.

Just cannot read the book in 'one take', because I seem to have a problem with the "voice" of the writer.
Still it is worth reading ,this book anyway-
 
For those who want to know all the gritty details of how nasty Ehrman really can be, do read "Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth" edited by Zindler and Price. I'm a bit over halfway through and I swear, I've learned more interesting little details about early Christianity from Zindler than I expected!

Anyway, in this book, Zindler publishes an email exchange he had with Ehrman over a period of two years prior to the publishing of Ehrmans "Did Jesus Exist?" and it shows a very ugly Ehrman. However, one item came up during this discussion that has me scratching my head. It seems that there is some plan to create a multi-million dollar Jesus Theme Park in Israel for Christian tourists and therefore, it is essential that the "real life of Jesus" be validated or the project might suffer. One just has to wonder how Ehrman made such an about-face on the topic in light of this development?

After all, in several of his books he makes deliberate note of his excellent life-style and how lucky he is, especially in his book "God's Problem". This is one of the reasons he gives for losing his faith: how can god exist if innocent people suffer and people with no particular righteousness can enjoy easy lives? Anyway, it always caught my attention when he did this: his caressing description of just how lucky he is to enjoy so many lovely things. That's why I mentioned it in my review above because it seems that this may be one of the reasons he doesn't want to rock his boat. It takes strength and courage to go against the people who could take his job and career away.

Well, anyway, putting that together with this Jesus Theme Park thing and it just makes you wonder if there is a connection and maybe some backroom dealing going on?
 
That's an intriguing discovery about the Jesus Theme Park in Israel, and a possible explanation of the pressures applied to make him toe the line....
 
That Jesus Theme Park story got me intrigued, so I did a little digging.

Turns out that those plans were formulated around 2005 and that televangelist Pat Robertson and his organization were strongly involved in it:

_http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1110/p06s01-wome.html
_http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/04/israel.travelnews

However, relations went sour after Robertson made a public statement that the massive stroke Premier Ariel Sharon suffered in those days was a divine punishment for pulling out of Gaza, and the project went on ice indefinitely -- especially as far as Robertson's involvement was concerned:

_http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/1174/
_http://religion.info/english/articles/article_221.shtml#.VK67oHtqLP4

Recently though, i.e. 2012, the idea was revived again without an emphasis on the specific Jesus slant, and now as a genuine wholly Israeli initiative -- although American Evangelicals apparently still are heavily interested to take at least some part in it:

_http://newsblaze.com/story/20120924105842nurg.nb/topstory.html
_http://www.israelbiblevalley.com/
 
For those who want to know all the gritty details of how nasty Ehrman really can be, do read "Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth" edited by Zindler and Price. I'm a bit over halfway through and I swear, I've learned more interesting little details about early Christianity from Zindler than I expected!

Thanks again for your dedication, Laura!
 
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