Body by Science / HIIT Experiment

trendsetter37

The Living Force
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Thanks for mentioning this Gaby. Sometime after starting the iodine protocol I started shaking when doing EE or any sort of meditation where I focus on being present to what's going on in the body. Shaking is one of the ways that the body de-stresses and releases hyperarousal energies cause by some sort of trauma, as explained by Levine. After experimenting with HIIT I noticed the same thing; slow, high intensity exercise seems to be helping the nervous system to reset. I already feel better after only two sessions of HIIT, I wonder what will happen if I keep at it.
To be clear, are you shaking through the entirety of the movement or are you experiencing a brief bout of shaking a little after completing the exercise? In the context of weight training jerking isn't exactly the goal and if it happens you should either back down on the weight a bit or move slightly faster. It can actually be dangerous to constantly shake while under load fwiw.
 

whitecoast

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Also, after the session, I do just a few extra abdominal exercises for fun, and wow, are they difficult! One shown by the trainer was the Plank Exercise. They're not necessarily needed though, as the "Pull Down exercise ... loads the musculature of the frontal torso, including the abdominal muscles", as the author wrote.
Oh that makes sense. I was wondering why my lower front torso was getting mysteriously more chiseled. :whistle:
 

genero81

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I've used Creatine in the past. I liked the way it inflated the muscles, but not too sure about how much it increased strength. On the other hand, I definitely noticed an increase in strength after I started taking Lugals.

Right now I'm more interested to see how well I do while eating Keto. Not sure if the the Keto diet is optimal for weight training. Been meaning to research that. I want to see if there's some things one can do while following a Keto diet like adding in extra protein after weight training that might help.
 

Konstantin

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Did you try to spread the dosage over the day? For example, if you take 15 grams a day then trying to take it 3 times a day à 5 grams. I didn't notice any problems with creatine so far.
I think that 15 grams of creatine is too much. Normal creatine Monohydrate dose is 5grams before the training session.

You can take up to 15-20 grams only for a 4-5 days in a row. It is a protocol called "filling with creatine" so you can quickly saturate your body with creatine and then the dose drops to 5 grams before training. I have done that only once but later I didn't want to experiment with so high doses. Then I tried without that mega doses for saturating the body and I have the same results.

I think it is not worth taking big doses of creatine while you can feel its benefits with a normal dose of 5 grams 30 minutes before training.
 

Konstantin

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I've used Creatine in the past. I liked the way it inflated the muscles, but not too sure about how much it increased strength. On the other hand, I definitely noticed an increase in strength after I started taking Lugals.

Right now I'm more interested to see how well I do while eating Keto. Not sure if the the Keto diet is optimal for weight training. Been meaning to research that. I want to see if there's some things one can do while following a Keto diet like adding in extra protein after weight training that might help.
I tried keto with weight training. It goes just fine. First few days I noticed a little decline in strength but after few days when body adopts I noticed a small increase in energy but a much bigger increase in endurance.

Today after I finished the training session I wanted to try to lift some heavy weights on a horizontal hammer chest press. Not slow lifting ( HIT ), but normal lifting just to compare my strength now and before I started to do HIT. I managed to lift 120 Kg for 5 repetitions. It is my personal record.

All I want to say is that this HIT training helped me a lot to increase my strength. I will keep doing it in the future.
 

Anthony

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To be clear, are you shaking through the entirety of the movement or are you experiencing a brief bout of shaking a little after completing the exercise? In the context of weight training jerking isn't exactly the goal and if it happens you should either back down on the weight a bit or move slightly faster. It can actually be dangerous to constantly shake while under load fwiw.
It's a brief bout a little before completing the exercise.
 

Pashalis

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[...]Right now I'm more interested to see how well I do while eating Keto. Not sure if the the Keto diet is optimal for weight training. Been meaning to research that. I want to see if there's some things one can do while following a Keto diet like adding in extra protein after weight training that might help.
I tried keto with weight training. It goes just fine. First few days I noticed a little decline in strength but after few days when body adopts I noticed a small increase in energy but a much bigger increase in endurance.

Today after I finished the training session I wanted to try to lift some heavy weights on a horizontal hammer chest press. Not slow lifting ( HIT ), but normal lifting just to compare my strength now and before I started to do HIT. I managed to lift 120 Kg for 5 repetitions. It is my personal record.

All I want to say is that this HIT training helped me a lot to increase my strength. I will keep doing it in the future.
Since I started with HIT I experimented with diet as well to see what is best for me. I think this is something that needs to be individually determined through trial and error as well.

In the first couple of weeks/months I tried to eat a relatively restricted Paleo diet and then went to a sort of Keto intermittent fasting diet, in which I ate nothing for 24 hours before the training. Pretty much zero carbs with both approaches. I've read and heard in some places , including Guffs book, that it is possible to gain weight/muscles and/or strength with such a diet. I have to admit though, that I was kind of skeptical about that, especially considering that I was already on the skinny side to begin with, with not all that much fat and muscle on my body anyway. My thinking was that muscle/weight gain can't come out of nothing, somewhere your body must get the fuel to gain muscles.

Since I'm training on MedX Machines, it is fairly easy to track improvements fairly closely. MedX Machines seem to make it much easier to improve from session to session as well compared to free weights. Since I started the training, I improved on every exercise (the weight I'm able to lift/strength) and in some exercises quite dramatically, like the leg press.

So while I was on this restricted Paleo and later Keto diet, my strength was still improving, but I was loosing weight fairly dramatically in a short period of time, even though my strength increased! I went from about 68 Kilos to about 64 in just a couple of weeks! That wasn't exactly what I was hoping for! One of my goals, if genetically possible, is to gain weight to about 80 Kilos and then see if more is possible. I also read in a couple of places that it is pretty much impossible to not loose muscle mass if you loose weight, since the muscles also contain fat.

So one day after that diet approach I had a couple of "cheat days" in which I ate one or two packs of cashew nuts on top of this diet a day. To my surprise, I immediately noticed within a couple of days that my weight was increasing quite significantly, while my strength was still improving.

I was happy about that, but felt fairly crappy since I can't really tolerate nuts. So I was thinking about what might have caused the weight gain and how I might be able to keep that up without using nuts. I thought that maybe the carbo hydrates and especially the fat in the nuts might the key (my Paleo, "Keto" experiments had not all that much fat and protein in it). So I changed tactics and changed diet. I took the advice a work college that told me to eat about 400 grams of meat (he said chicken, but I used pork instead) on each meal and about 5 tablespoons of fat in the form of ghee on top of that. There are also quite a number of studies out there that strongly suggest that enough good quality protein is the key to increase muscle mass. Carbohydrates don't seems to help and fat doesn't seem to be tested all that much in studies. With this new approach I was able to increase my body weight significantly in a short period of time, to about 71 Kilos as of now, while still improving strength , and it still seems to increase.

Noticed that I was gaining a bit to much fat with that approach, so I'm currently trying to figure out how much I have to reduce the protein intake and fat intake to find the right balance between the two. Gaining fat moderately is for some people (most I guess) a by product. Currently I'm at about 300 grams of meat and about four tablespoons of fat on three meals a day.

Will see how that goes for a while. So in the end what it seems to come down to, is to experiment for yourself what is best for you and adjust it as you go along. It also seems to be a thing which change on your personal circumstances and improvements.

Another thing that I'm now trying to figure out is the right amount of recovery time between the exercises. As of now I tried every 7 days and for the first time last week I couldn't train in that Intervall, because I was somewhere else and thus am forced to do my next one 14 days after the last one. What I noticed after day 11 now without training, is that I still seem to gain weight and the muscles still seem to improve, which is a surprise to me, even though it shouldn't! My pants and T-shirts are getting tighter as well. If it goes on like that, I need a new size there.

So what I will try to do now is to increase the time to 8 days and more in the next couple of months and see how that goes. I have to admit though, that the idea to increase that recovery time frame, is still something I struggle with, since I like the exercise and would like to do it more then is probably good. The idea of "more exercise, the better" still seems to be deeply ingrained in me. That's something I have to work on it seems.
 
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genero81

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There are also quite a number of studies out there that strongly suggest that enough good quality protein is the key to increase muscle mass. Carbohydrates don't seems to help and fat doesn't seem to be tested all that much in studies. With this new approach I was able to increase my body weight significantly in a short period of time, to about 71 Kilos as of now, while still improving strength , and it still seems to increase.

Noticed that I was gaining a bit to much fat with that approach, so I'm currently trying to figure out how much I have to reduce the protein intake and fat intake to find the right balance between the two. Gaining fat moderately is for some people (most I guess) a by product. Currently I'm at about 300 grams of meat and about four tablespoons of fat on three meals a day.

Will see how that goes for a while. So in the end what it seems to come down to, is to experiment for yourself what is best for you and adjust it as you go along. It also seems to be a thing which change on your personal circumstances and improvements.
Thank you for sharing your experience! I think it will be helpful. :-)
 

beetlemaniac

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First off, I'd like to thank Scottie for introducing us to this exercise protocol. It's been a real time-saver and something that fit in perfectly with my current routine. I travel for work almost every week, so exercise on weekdays is mighty inconvenient, and in fact I didn't have the motivation to do so anyway.

My diet is currently all over the place especially during traveling days, but I tend to bring myself to eat ketogenically during the weekends when I'm back home and can do some cooking. It's been working out not too shabbily so far, as I think I've been able to adapt my metabolism to shift between fat and carbs fairly well, though I recognize a HUGE difference in energetic stability and calm when I'm properly burning fat, i.e. being keto-adapted.

I've replaced some exercises on the big-5 to suit whatever was available over at my local gym and my current line-up is as follows:
- Pull down
- Seated row
- Chest press
- Leg press
- Overhead press

I also do some bodyweight exercises after the weights. I've taken a liking to very slow bodyweight squats - it really loosens up my psoas muscle. I literally feel cool waves flowing through the psoas on the eccentric part (going back to standing). I'm guessing that some stretching after exercise is warranted as well?

So far, so good. Seeing some strength gains slowly. It's been one and a half months so far since I started formally recording my weights and times.

(mind you, I haven't even read the book yet, it's still sitting on my bedside table - currently going through The Dopaminergic Mind).
 

A Jay

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It seems a bit strange to bring in supplementation for the sole purpose of increasing the weight lifted. If creatine promotes water retention in muscles couldn't that also be a means to prevent actual inroading? Put another way, it is better to struggle and maintain form when under load than to alter your posture for help. Additional water within the muscle may serve as leverage when under load which would deplete less glycogen than it would otherwise right? Ergo you would actually be providing less of a "stimulus". Maybe it doesn't quite work that way but I would be interested in further clarification here.
From what I understand, supplementing with creatine is thought to increase the amount of phosphocreatine in the muscles which is supposed to allow for a greater anaerobic conversion of ADP to ATP. This increased ability to turn ADP back into ATP would then allow you to perform more work and by extension increase the depth of inroad and the amount of microtrauma incurred by the muscle fibers. Which would then increase the body's overcompensating recovery response, and so you'd get stronger and bigger, faster.

Another way to think of it is that you're getting more bang for your energetic buck. I don't think this extra bang has any interference on the amount of fat or glycogen liberated or utilized during the course of exercise, because that process is regulated via a different mechanism. I think it just makes what is liberated more available for immediate usage, and thus leads to the ability to perform more work and potentially increase inroad and microtrauma.

After reading up on this from several studies and from my old physiology and exercise books, I'm planning to start supplementing with creatine again and see what happens.

Right now I'm more interested to see how well I do while eating Keto. Not sure if the the Keto diet is optimal for weight training. Been meaning to research that. I want to see if there's some things one can do while following a Keto diet like adding in extra protein after weight training that might help.
Jeff Volek co-wrote another good book called 'The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance' that has some good info, and you can also check out Ketogains which has good info as well.
 

mugatea

Jedi Master
I've just bought the book, cant wait to try read through it and try this out... Have a weight bench at home too. :)
 

Thebull

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I’m in my Sixth week of training. I’ve spent 5 weeks on the machines doing 5 exercises. Seated row, chest press, pull down, shoulder press, and leg press.
Been interesting first 5 weeks I’ve increased my weight every week and have kept the times with burnout between the 30 & 90 second mark.

Today just though I’d incorporate free weights. So I did bent over row(barbell) bench press, pull ups, shoulder press(dumbbell) and I dared to squat with barbell when I’m on my own so still use leg press machine.

Thanks Scottie for giving us the heads up on this. Generally like others great training for such a short time. I’ve been feeling less tired than when I trained reguarly though last week incorporated a hit session running (sprints) shortly after caught the summer cold/flu and felt shitty for about a week. Will run though once a week and think I’m going to incorporate a body weight session with 5 exercises of my choice. I’m using a 4-6 cadence so keeping it short and sweet.

Seems that in this case less is more. 😉
 

Scottie

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Just a quick update:

Did the workout last Tuesday. I haven't had any interesting aches or pains until then.

A few hours later, my left ankle hurt mildly. That went away by the next morning, but then the soul of my left foot hurt - kinda like a deep bruise. Then the next day, both my knees felt achy, kinda like when you have sore joints due to the flu. Except I'm not sick at all.

I haven't gone up in weight on the leg press in weeks. It's still plenty hard with the weight I'm using, but getting easier and my times are still within range. My knees didn't feel injured at all - I've had bad knees before and this was not that kind of ouchiness. Everything was functional, but achy. I'm hoping it was the little micro-repair robots swimming around fixing stuff.

So, I guess even after 6+ months of the workout, it can still "do stuff". I'm gonna take this week off to ensure full recovery... Plus our workout room is currently 29C / 84F, and I don't feel like passing out today... :nuts:

Oh, and the last time I went for a 2.7km moderate-paced run was... about 2 weeks ago. It was the first time where afterwards, I didn't have sore muscles or anything.

I guess that's progress!
 

Regulattor

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I'm doing HIT training about two months now using mostly free weights, working out on big 5. Since I have prior experiences with free weights, I've decided that I would try it and see how far can I go. And to be honest it is much harder then I expected. Doing classic 10 reps x 3 sets routine with same or greater weights, was also hard and produced muscle fatigue, but this kind of exercise is much more demanding in respect to staying focused on your moves, breathing and mentally overcoming discomfort. I've reached the point where in order to maintain proper form and reach muscular failure, doing squats for example, I have to use power rack which I don't have so I have to build one or transfer to gym, which I guess would be altogether better solution.

However, even without always reaching total positive muscular failure, which may be a problem doing exercises with free weights, in this short time span changes in strength and stamina are quite noticeable. My overall strength improved, my muscles are more fuller and I can feel that my shirts and pants fits differently, although there aren't any changes with my body weight. I'm doing 1 exercise in a week, and next day or day after I'm pretty much exhausted but feeling less sore with time.

So I'm definitively staying on this regimen although I will probably reach the point, any time soon, where using machines would be more efficient then free weights. I'll keep you posted.
 
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