Breast Feeding - It's the best, but...

[Gaby]

My last question here, so what if a child gets toxins from mother's milk...is there any such thing as a child detox diet? I know about ones for adults, but are these ok for children less then 2 years old? What are the options for very young children with respect to toxins?

Ideally, a future mother should detoxify before she gets pregnant. Ideally. At the very least, she should decrease toxicity exposure as much as possible. She can take some nutritional supplementation and modify her diet so that it will be a healthy one. There are detox protocols for children (I read some from autism.com), but for children less than 2 years old, it should be done under a supervision of a health care provider.

 

[Laura]

French vegans in dock over baby's death

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:08 CDT

Two vegans who fed their 11-month-old daughter only mother's milk went on trial in northern France on Tuesday charged with neglect after their baby died suffering from vitamin deficiency.

Sergine and Joel Le Moaligou, whose vegan diet forbids consuming any animal product including eggs and cow's milk, called the emergency services in March 2008 after becoming worried about their baby Louise's listlessness.

When the ambulance arrived at their home in Saint-Maulvis, a small village 150 kilometres (90 miles) north of Paris, the baby was already dead.

The ambulance workers called the police because the child was pale and thin, weighing 5.7 kilos (12.5 pounds) compared to an average eight kilos for her age.

The baby had only been fed on the milk of her mother, who was aged 37 at the time.

An autopsy showed that Louise was suffering from a vitamin A and B12 deficiency which experts say increases a child's sensitivity to infection and can be due to an unbalanced diet.

"The problem of vitamin B12 deficiency could be linked to the mother's diet," said Anne-Laure Sandretto, deputy prosecutor in the city of Amiens where the trial is taking place.

The couple has been charged with "neglect or food deprivation followed by death" and face up to 30 years in prison if convicted.

 

[Gaby]

French vegans in dock over baby's death

Totally irresponsible!!

 

[Joe]

French vegans in dock over baby's death

Totally irresponsible!!

That's the Veggie/Vegan mindset for ya

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

There is something that disturbs me about this (horrible) story: regularly the French media report similar cases. There was one case in 2005, another in 2008 (probably others but these are the ones I could find at the moment), etc. Every time, the couple is vegetarian or vegan, sometimes they belong to a cult or 'only trusted alternative medecine'. I've also seen sometimes added that the parents used kinesiology to treat their baby and that as a result, he is now dead. Kinesiology has a really bad rep in France and is sometimes considered as a cult

I read that some vegan parents in the United States had seen their child taken away from them by social services. While I don't doubt for a minute that vegetarianism (and veganism even more so) are detrimental to a person's/child's health, I cannot help but wonder why it is suddenly so important for the government/the media to warn everyone about its dangers? Since when do they care about our health? Especially since vegetarianism is all the rage now.

 

[truth seeker]

There is something that disturbs me about this (horrible) story: regularly the French media report similar cases. There was one case in 2005, another in 2008 (probably others but these are the ones I could find at the moment), etc. Every time, the couple is vegetarian or vegan, sometimes they belong to a cult or 'only trusted alternative medecine'. I've also seen sometimes added that the parents used kinesiology to treat their baby and that as a result, he is now dead. Kinesiology has a really bad rep in France and is sometimes considered as a cult

I read that some vegan parents in the United States had seen their child taken away from them by social services. While I don't doubt for a minute that vegetarianism (and veganism even more so) are detrimental to a person's/child's health, I cannot help but wonder why it is suddenly so important for the government/the media to warn everyone about its dangers? Since when do they care about our health? Especially since vegetarianism is all the rage now.

Perhaps it's not so much the vegetarianism that is their true focus but just the simplest means with which they choose to use to cause separation and implement further control in the future.

 

[Laura]

Yes, it is disturbing. It reminds me of what I wrote about in the latest Dot Connector about the controversy between the creationists and the Darwinists. There the media was, promoting the heck out of Satanic Ritual Abuse - with no rational voices allowed - which was scaring a whole lot of people to death. At the same time, they were ALSO promoting the heck out of Darwinism in the most literal interpretation - Carl Sagan and his "consciousness is a by-product of physical processes". It's like there is a black and white set-up all charged with emotion.

Also, look at the Jim Humble/MMS thing. We know that the FDA has the ability to stop that business it its tracks. They've sure done it in regards to some truly beneficial supplements. But, in this case, they give a warning and do nothing else.

Nobody seems to be thinking their way through things anymore, they are being set up to have knee-jerk reactions.

We know from our own experiences and experimentation AND research, that vegetarianism probably isn't good for anybody. We also know that the Dept of Agriculture "food pyramid" is a sham/scam/promotional device - promoting agricultural products. We also know that most meat that is sold is poisoned if not from chemicals, then from the horrible ways they animals are treated.

Nothing is simple but a few things do stand out: veganism is harmful and breastfeeding a baby to the exclusion of other foods for any extended period of time can be harmful. When the child has teeth, nature is saying that it is time to give food.

That these people are being criminally charged does seem to be a bit harsh, but we've sure seen how the vegans/vegetarians believe and act (I've found that I have to remove them from my FB friends, even!) so maybe it is seen as necessary to get their attention?

 

[Hildegarda]

While I don't doubt for a minute that vegetarianism (and veganism even more so) are detrimental to a person's/child's health, I cannot help but wonder why it is suddenly so important for the government/the media to warn everyone about its dangers? Since when do they care about our health? Especially since vegetarianism is all the rage now.

I think that vegan/vegetarian angle just makes for a nice media frenzy. Those stories are good for channeling public anger or for distracting from something more important that's going on.

The charge the parents are facing is "neglect or food deprivation followed by death". The child was way below her age-appropriate weight. The problem is that they have so identified with being vegan that they genuinely missed signs that their child is severely malnurished and not growing properly, and haven't received medical attention in time. It's like anorexia. In the eyes of the law, that's their fault, and not that they were vegan per se.

This sort of thing, unfortunately, also happens to people who are not vegetarian. Some of those people have problems like drugs etc, and just genuinely neglect their children. But there are some others who just miss the signs for no reason at all. E.g., when a mother's milk is drying up, or a baby is a weak sucker due to muscle underdevelopment or underlying illness -- when you see your child every minute of every day, it can be hard to notice that s/he isn't growing as supposed to, the changes are so gradual but they do accumulate.

ADA's position statement on vegetarianism is that, when properly planned, CAN provide balanced nutrition, and it hasn't changed. Europe probably has similar regulatory/scientific governmental organizations that stick to the same opinion. Not sure this case alone will change much in this respect, but it will certainly be used to divide and alienate people from each other.

fwiw

 

[Laura]

Notice that the story says that they were "Militant vegans..."

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Yes, it is disturbing. It reminds me of what I wrote about in the latest Dot Connector about the controversy between the creationists and the Darwinists. There the media was, promoting the heck out of Satanic Ritual Abuse - with no rational voices allowed - which was scaring a whole lot of people to death. At the same time, they were ALSO promoting the heck out of Darwinism in the most literal interpretation - Carl Sagan and his "consciousness is a by-product of physical processes". It's like there is a black and white set-up all charged with emotion.

Nobody seems to be thinking their way through things anymore, they are being set up to have knee-jerk reactions.

My initial thought was that they were pushing vegetarianism with one hand and 'punishing' it with the other just as to confuse people even more. And that when they blame people who virtually anybody would blame, they reinforce people's opinion that the state is there for us, protecting children against harm, basically vectoring their thoughts.

That these people are being criminally charged does seem to be a bit harsh, but we've sure seen how the vegans/vegetarians believe and act (I've found that I have to remove them from my FB friends, even!) so maybe it is seen as necessary to get their attention?

Absolutely. The few vegans I've known were really judgmental and really believe their way is the only sane way. There is just no talking to them.

I think that vegan/vegetarian angle just makes for a nice media frenzy. Those stories are good for channeling public anger or for distracting from something more important that's going on.

Good point. I had not thought about the 'distraction' thing. The vegan/vege angle making for a nice media frenzy is true. In fact, I asked the question here, because I was genuinely surprised that they were still playing that angle! In light of all the good publicity vegetarianism has received these last few years, it seemed almost outdated.

Perhaps it's not so much the vegetarianism that is their true focus but just the simplest means with which they choose to use to cause separation and implement further control in the future.

That just scares the bejesus out of me, to be honest. That the state could take away my child because they decide I don't follow what they think is right is just too horrible.

 

[Tasha]

Here in Bosnia are constantly promoting breastfeeding only. I was in a terrible depression when I lost my milk. I tortured myself. The child was hungry, but doctors were persistent to continue to breastfeed. Luckily I woke up and started solid foods for the child. My mother did not have milk to feed me, but it has not affected my health. Children are now becoming narcissistic, power hungry, they want to rule their parents. It's terrible.

French vegans had to know that it is not enough to feed her child with breast milk. They are not the only ones to blame for the death of the child, blame the associations that terrorized mothers to feed their children only breast milk, and doctors.

 

[tykes]

Today we carried our 11 month to the pediatrician (a new one) for general mededical check. The diagnosis he gave us was more than disturbing.

It seems that our baby has early anemia, aqcuired from her mother's milk. She suffers anemia since ten years ago or so, during the pregnancy was treated with Iron via serum and caps. Her conditioned improved, but while breast feeding relapsed. The baby was breast fed until two months ago when we started to give him food, and almond milk as a substitute.

The doctor said that we should have quit breast feeding since the baby was 5 or 6 monts old. The other pediatrician never detected any problem, just suggested that we should switch to formula milk. The new doctor suggested this also. We refuse because what we know about milk and diary products, and I know that this was and is for the better.

The other problem that was diagnosed today is even more worrying, according to this doctor my baby has a congenital condition called Hypospadias (is a birth defect of the urethra in the male that involves an abnormally placed urinary meatus) and a lot of procedures and a possible surgical intervention it will be needed. Of course we will ask for a second opinion. All this evening I've been researching about this condition and certainly I think that in the case that my baby actually suffers this condition (and still have many doubts) is not the more severe degree. He even suggest that we should seize the opportunity to do the circumcision wich annoyed me so much.

I am very upset with this of course, a lot of things going on my head. I am sure of just one thing, that this is a case of negligence first off by ourselves as parents. It's so difficult to admit that we have failed when we thought we were doing it ok. By the other hand this only reinforce my deep distrust towards most mediacal doctors. It makes me mad how one say one thing and the other one completely contradicts or refuses the first.

Finally, this already is causing a lot of tension within the family. This, some way or another from the point of view of several family members only proves that I am a complete and dangerous whacko. A couple of hours ago I had an argument with my mother who was very angry with us for being such a bad parents. She basically said the classic "I told you so, the baby needs real milk, real food, not that organic crap, now you start right away to behave as adults" etc. I lost my nerve and I said is none of her bussines and I am afraid I was even very rude. My wife's mother just phoned me some minutes ago in the same reproachful mode. I try to understand them anyway, I think that they genuinely care about the baby and us, and I accept that evidently we made some big mistakes, but their ways to try to help and their strong beliefs are difficult to overcome.

A very tense situation, though I know that now more than never I should control myself more than never and think clear for the sake of the baby wich is the most important to me. I don't want to let external pressure from family force me to make hasty decisions.

Thank you for reading.

 

[anart]

Tykes, I don't think you and your wife have made any mistakes. You could not have known that the breast milk was lacking iron. That is easily remedied with diet from here on out. Also, IF the child has a congenital issue with his urethra, that is certainly NOT your fault! Stop beating yourself up. You've done nothing wrong.

I would suggest that you not answer the phone when your mother or your wife's mother calls - at least not for the time being. You are buying into their madness. To suggest that organic food is not the right choice is insanity. You are not the one doing something wrong here.

If your best friend were going through what you are going through right now, would you blame him for the fact that his child needs more iron and he couldn't have known this, or that his child was born with an issue? Come on - snap out of it - there is zero reason for you to be beating yourself up over things that are not your fault.

If the child's grandparents cannot be supportive of you and your wife, then limit their access to you and your wife until they can learn to be supportive. My two cents.

 

[tykes]

I would suggest that you not answer the phone when your mother or your wife's mother calls - at least not for the time being. You are buying into their madness. To suggest that organic food is not the right choice is insanity. You are not the one doing something wrong here.

Yes, I went into their game very easily. I was not sure to avoid any contact with them because I thought that this would be selfish and external inconsiderate, but I guess that was jus me confusing concepts once more.

What you suggest it seems the more reasonable thing to do right now.

Today we started a diet for the baby to increase his iron levels, along with supplements. And in a couple of weeks we will carry him with a specialist to check his urethra issue. We both are more calm now, though still sad. I told my wife about your advice and she thought that is the more sensible solution also.

Thank you very much Anart.

 

[anart]

I'm glad you're both more calm now. I think you and your wife should focus on taking care of each other and your baby - and be gentle with yourselves. All this 'beating yourself up' isn't helping anyone. You'll do fine, I think. :)