Can I start the Work if I'm not yet an obyvatel?

[Menna]

Hi Andrey, I think you had some good answers already. One thing I would add is that Gurdjieff had a good awareness of the psychological differences between human beings. This may be one of the reasons for his comments about the level of the obyvatel. He used different terminology to us, but people we would describe as narcissists or personality disordered would be examples of people who often make very poor obyvatels. They would also be poor candidates for the Work because they would be too satisfied with themselves as they already are.

I concur the "buffering" is too strong in these types and it would take the grace of GOD so to speak for them to be able to SEE and develop the WILL to be sincere, start and continue The Work in any meaningful way....Jumping around from A influence to A influence is typically the fate of the majority of these types. Which is fine in and of itself and provides lessons to all of us if there were no narcissists or PD people im sure the learning here would not be as "intense" Albeit, at this point I rather read a book, mentat and network as this is less arduous

 

[msasa79]

Slightly of topic.

We also discover all the things outside of us that act against us and prevent us from achieving our aim, and this proves to us the concept of the general law and the constant actions of A influences and their suppressive influence on our lives.

I think that, if he was aware of its true nature, Gurdjieff did a disservice to call Matrix control system as General law, like it's something natural. I mean, yeah, it is natural as an intrinsic part of the STS realm and its hierarchical structure, but it isn't natural as in coming from and/or of Mother Nature/Earth.

Recent realization has it that the actions of General law are basically the same as the actions of STS energies/entities through the living beings that are natural part of their hierarchy in this realm.
Situation analogous to being an atom in a crystal lattice, with bonds on every side keeping it in its place; when starts to vibrate out of phase and/or frequency with the rest of the surrounding medium/lattice, bonds get tenser and tighter pulling it back to 'allowed space' much stronger than before.
Or something like dealing with our predator mind which in effect 'alarms' the real Predator (of Castaneda's writing) that then activates more accutely, not only our own, but also a bunch of 'surrounding' people's predator minds in our life.

Am I 'seeing' this right, or/and just stating something rather obvious and self-evident to others here?

After observing the recent dynamics in other threads on the Forum and thinking a bit about them, and myself in the process, I realized that General law is quite natural after all. Its actions apparently also stem from basic human nature in its most natural form, that of shielding itself from unpleasant and often 'unknown' feelings and thoughts, especially if they involve 'disliked' aspects of the Self itself. Quite similar to what Wilson writes in Strangers to Ourselves.

 

[Yas]

Hi Andrey,

You've had some very good answers already, so I just want to chime in and say that your question is a good one and I'm glad you asked it. Sometimes, we just take these phrases or concepts for granted and it's good to examine them every once in a while, so thank you for that.

But what do you think is meant by the idea that you can't do the work without being a good obyvatel? That statement again contains implications of a sort of divide between normal life and a life where one is doing the official Work with a huge W stamped on their wrist.

I think one of the reasons why being an obyvatel is important is because some people may disregard their lives in order to do more 'esoteric' work and they may, in the process, hurt people close to them and/or themselves. Some people may put so much emphasis in the esoteric stuff while in their more ordinary lives they may nor be able to handle themselves appropriately. There are many many reasons for why this person could be doing that, but one could be escapism, for example. Someone who doesn't want to look head-on to their 3D problems decides it is better to dream about esoteric stuff, and that implies that the person is ignoring the very lessons they came to learn in this 3D reality, which generally have to do with the realm of the 'good obyvatel'.

Another reason I can think of, has been mention already and it is because working ourselves should lead us to a better life. So, while you're aiming to create a better life for yourself, you are already working on yourself, and creating a better life includes things that are in the realm of a good obyvatel, such as your job, your family and general stability in your immediate environment.

I also want to mention that the 'good obyvatel' concept was (I think) that you should be able to provide for all the family and more, and perhaps it is important to say that I don't think it should be taken as strict as that, in case you are thinking it should be exactly that way. It's only about having enough stability in the 3D realm and learning those 'simple and karmic understandings', which, I know, aren't necessarily simple.

And I think that's the CLUE, Andrey, that we have to remember that we're here to learn the lessons of 3D and not the ones of 4D, or higher, and the realm of the 'good obyvatel' is that of the 3D world. That doesn't mean that we can learn about those higher realms, and discuss what they may look like-this is important knowledge for our realm because there is a lot of influence from there too, so it is important to know, and apply that knowledge the best we can in our 3D reality. However, our lessons right now, usually involve living in the 3D world the best we can, according to our particular circumstances, with the knowledge of the world unseen so that we may have some guidance in that respect, and that IS our esoteric work already, I think.

The efforts required to achieve this and the lessons learned during the process are the foundations for anything else to be built upon. It’s like, one can’t stand firm without truly knowing where the ground is.

Well that was a simple yet brilliant statement, IMO . I say this because, yes, one of the things that the obyvatel concept does is that it grounds you to this reality and yes, we have to remember were our ground is and be capable of standing firm on it because here is where our lessons are happening at the moment.

 

[Tristan]

I understand that the "esoteric" work begins with the most essential and practical aspects of life. One can start from knowing these teachings of Gurdjieff or Castaneda, or also from the stoic philosophy or others topics discussed in the forum, to have a base from which to start. And little by little integrate more aspects of the Work, the Cs said that networking is essential in any case. But first things first and that is to have at least settled the most basic needs for this life in 3D.

I have also realized that at least for me, some external events that have served to see the horror of this world and what is happening, and has caused certain shocks and made me act, and this has been positive. At the same time, it has been kind of a distraction from paying attention to other aspects of self-work and improvement. I am now trying to get back on track after this scourge.