CHAOS: Tom O'Neill's book on the Charles Manson murders

I wouldn't put O'Neill and McGowan in the same category. As we realized when McGowan went full 'actors theory' after the Boston Bombings in 2013, he imagines a lot of connections that either aren't there, or have no relevant significance. His Laurel Canyon series must therefore be critically interrogated. Many of the 60s musicians and actors McGowan suggested were 'instrumental' in government control/influence programs were 'guilty-by-association' in McGowan's eyes. O'Neill does what McGowan does not: drill down to the facts, and only then propose a tentative theory.

Agreed, now that you mention it, he does go on name-dropping and is tiresome following up the chain of names and events. Though it was the first time I had read about the military/intelligence connections of some of the 60's characters, only to be taken to a real investigative journalism level with O'Neill.
 
Just watched it tonight, and I have to agree that they simply went "that is inconceivable!!" and tried to aim for the middle when ending the documentary.

I would recommend watching it after reading the book, It was a very nice way to put faces and voices to the events, it helped me understand the traumatic impact those events had.
 
O'Neil has finally shared his opinion about the Netflix movie on X:
Since folks have been asking...This review summarizes my feelings about the movie.I wish Errol & Netflix the best of luck w their film and encourage anyone who sees it & wants to know more to get the damn book, preferably a print edition w the 60+ pages of endnotes (1)

(2) In addition to source info in the notes (where you dissenters can check my facts), there's also lots of little anecdotal elaborations.Thanks for all your support.PS - the above isn't a crafty ploy to get you to buy the book. Libraries all over the U.S. have loads of copies!

Here's the review he's referring to which concludes with:
Viewers who haven’t read O’Neill’s book will find the film interesting enough. To me, it felt like reading the abstract of a white paper that’s locked behind a paywall, and a lopsided abstract at that. It’s not unwatchable. The archival footage of Manson and his followers is sadly gripping. I’m just not sure what book Morris thought he was adapting.

Just reading through the review now and so far I can see why O'Neil said it summarizes his feelings. It summarizes mine as well!
 
Finished reading the review and it's definitely worth the read.

The author does a great job of detailing O'Neil's explosive findings and comparing them to what was in the movie so you have a good sense of how distorted the movie was in presenting those findings. The findings the movie didn't just omit entirely, that is.

One example of a detail that was omitted, likely because it negated Morris' seemingly favorite theory:
Even when Morris returns to the part of the chronology he is stuck on for reasons he never explains, he effectively leaves Beausoleil unchallenged. “I don’t know if he knew that I was in jail,” Beausoleil says about Manson at one point. “There’s no evidence of that.” Actually, there is evidence of that—in the book Morris is ostensibly adapting.

There were so many instances of glaring omissions like this that, like the author of the review said, I'm really not sure what book Morris thought he was adapting.
 
O'Neill does what McGowan does not: drill down to the facts, and only then propose a tentative theory.

Yes, that is how I see it so far. Not quite finished the book, yet he lets the evidence speak, then follows it as best he can and does not hang his hat on it unless verifiable. However (never to be verified as they are very good at cutting off the threads), is for people watching the shenanigan's of the ptb and their agencies and programs, that they seem to sink into the era and in proximity orbit to the murder story in general.

Note: it was just this morning that this SOTT.net review by Abby Aguirre came out, and had no idea there was "Errol Morris's film adaptation of "Chaos," released by Netflix this month." After reading, Abby seems correct in review based on her overview of the film and that of O'Neill's work, and she seemed right to point out the closing words by Beausoleil to distract, to keep the focus "mundane,' in his words rather than looking at what is clearly there to see.

 
Once completed as a whole, O'Neill's book seemed impressive, and not for the conclusions, no, but for the threads he pulled on when others never did. He struggled, and one can see why with all that conflicting data, the compartmentalization of agencies, the deceptive natures of individuals with double and triple stories layer on, and the dot connecting to try to make it whole even with evidence gaps.

For forum readers, many connections will be made to other events and times, yet it may leave one thinking that, if this was going on in 69, what the heck is happening today, because these things did not just end - go away, like them saying that they closed down some program way back when. No, not likely, they just took on new paths in technology/toxicity/pathology, and grew them in funny business where we might never recognize it today (if Tom's original premise is sound, who knows how deep on steroids this has all become).

Of the evidence gaps - smoking guns or what have you, Tom could never find the direct collaborating evidence that put West and Manson in the same orbit/room, even though they were in the same medical clinic during the same time period; no one would confirm. It seems a given to be able to bridge that gaps, though, but it is true, you can't based on non-existing evidence. You can look to the Smith (LSD) and Smith (speed/amphetamine) studies based on Calhoun, as O'Neill well recounts, and know that Jolyon West would be under a close by rock somewhere.

There are so many charters in the story, it is almost unreal.

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The citations at the end were in-depth, with added discussion in places that enhanced the original.
 
When I read Bugliosi"s book "Helter Skelter" so many years ago that story had a huge impact on me for some reason and has stuck with me ever since.

I am nearly finished reading CHAOS currently and am amazed how much of O'Neill"s life has been spent on researching and writing this book and his dedication in search of the truth.

I think it is very well written and not to be put down too often while reading lest you forget the vast amount of characters introduced in this book. I found myself having to flip back through the pages many times to revisit names of people and the roles they played in this story.

My main takeaway is that if all that deep-seated corruption through all those different channels was going on way back in the 50's and 60's (and I'm sure even way before that), I can only imagine the evil going on behind the scenes today is much much worse. Rather depressing to think about but it's a good read and very thought provoking for sure!
 

Figured I should give it a go and watch it, and in doing so, it provided the visual landscape of the times; photos of the people, video of same, the locations (the crime scene's, streets, court, ranches et cetera). The film seemed a back and forth narrative of O'Neill's understanding, and non-understanding, and the buckets of contradictions, and one of the prosecutor's who falls in with the established narrative.

Of course, an hour and a half documentary like this can never reproduce the pages of a book like O'Neill's However, if one has read the book it can be useful, although like the book, no conclusions can and perhaps will ever be made. In one way, Manson and the girls present a bumbling group that continues to make bad choices, evil choices, with Manson the ring-leader. There is certainly the perception of the group falling apart in trying to cover up Manson's crimes, with an element of truth to it. Yet as said above, there is so much more, which comes back to O'Neill's line of force.

One thing picked up in the book that provided pause, was the short reference to 1967 when Smith (his parole officer) argued for Manson to be able to go to Mexico. Manson has some roots in Mexico, the place that initially landed himself in trouble when he was extradited back to the U.S. and went to Federal prison. When Smith later made the suggestion to travel back, the Parole Board rejected his travel, which later Smith said he was just kidding, trying to show Manson the reality of what they would say, and then there was the suggestion of going to Florida instead. Neither happened, or that is what one is lead to believe, with Atkin's later saying at one point that she spent 5 months that year in Mexico. Whatever the case, Smith lost track of Manson for 5 months (or so he claimed) and O'Neill seems to thinks is was possible he went to Mexico. Nothing else was said.

If it is true that Manson and some of the girls went to Mexico (coming back in late 1967 or early 1968), is it possible that this is where Manson's mind was 'tuned,' if it was done? By 1968 things rapidly became crazy, and O'Neill had said enough times, how was Manson able to assert such control on his followers? It might be speculated, especially as alluded to regarding the mind control interests of the times, that Manson was tuned in some way and also given methods to do the same to others (LSD - which became a staple, mixed with repetitive hypnotic words to help accomplish). So, if even plausible, Manson comes back in 1968 and works his new found controlling essence on his group, while the puppet masters just sit back and watch to see what will happen, to even interfere in cases (plenty of them) where the group is arrested here and there, and then set back on course.

Whatever happened, LSD was very important to open the mind to suggestibility, to implant. So, LSD may have been the key, but there would need to be a detailed method to work in a designed operating program (West's fingerprints). Again, if it was something like this, the speed/amphetamines might have been the final trigger that opened up the program directive to unleash their murderous rampages in 1969.

One will never know.
 

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