Well, (she says posting late into the discussion) I am not saying just anyone. I am speaking of someone who repeatedly demonstrated the ability to both conceive and demonstrate objective knowlege. Regarding identification, I suppose one could say the same thing about you. You are also highly identified with your teacher(s) and have the same lack of objective knowledge about the situation. There is technically no way that anyone here can speak with objectivity about what happened now almost some 40 odd years ago.anart said:Just a note, alwyn, that while I don't necessarily disagree with your take on it, for you to state that just because someone - (anyone, whether they were your 'teacher' or not) was 'there' means that they have any objective knowledge about the dynamics of a situation is simply not true.
You are clearly very highly identified with your 'teacher' and with your take on this - again, I'm not saying your take on it is incorrect, I don't have the data to make that assertion - however - just wanted to point out that saying, "he was THERE" is really immaterial when it comes down to whether or not he could possibly know, objectively, what was really going on under the outward, carefully constructed, facade.
Since this group is theoretically dedicated to objective knowledge, I thought it might be an interesting anecdote from one who was trained (quite capably) in the objective school of which you seem to admire. (Speaking of Crockett here, not me.) When I say he was THERE, I mean on the scene with his full intent and objective knowledge. He IS capable of making those distinctions. He also has the direct EXPERIENCE of these events, and therefore may be one of the few actually qualified to speak about it.
He never mentioned anything about government manipulation, but he never mentioned that it didn't happen either. He was rather contemptuous of government in America. He called it the largest prison in the world, that the walls were so wide that most people didn't even know they were in prison. This said in 1980.
As to my identification with him, I haven't worked with him since 1990. Although I suppose in many ways, I am a product of his teaching. Of course I have had other teachers as well. Knowledge (the subjective kind), and the wisdom that comes from experience, can LEAD one to objective knowledge. The sufis say the apparent is the bridge to the Real. The final leap has to happen within the self.
Rumi, one of the great Sufi examples of the perfected man said the man of wisdom is "not learned from a book." Books can point the way, but they can't fill in for the wisdom of the objective Teacher. The touch of the baker is needed, to quote another sufi source. (So I guess my inclusion in 'half baked' is a sufi complement!)
Crockett also said that you can tell when something real comes up because ignoramuses will come for miles around from the general law and jump on it to make sure it doesn't get any further. It is only when one has a magnetic center that one starts to 'rise above' this sort of general law reaction. Something to think about, anyway.