Children of Men

Joe

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

well, we all got worked up about his movie and watched a couple weeks ago and...well...not really that impressed. The theme was of interest of course, but I was left thinking that they could have made it so much more truthful. It's a decent enough movie, but not a great movie IMO. Nothing like V or the Matrix.

Joe
 

Fifth Way

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Joe said:
and...well...not really that impressed. [...] they could have made it so much more truthful.
Why don't you elaborate on this a bit. How exactly...?
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Joe said:
well, we all got worked up about his movie and watched a couple weeks ago and...well...not really that impressed. The theme was of interest of course, but I was left thinking that they could have made it so much more truthful. It's a decent enough movie, but not a great movie IMO. Nothing like V or the Matrix.

Joe
I have thought of this movie a lot and some parts bothered me in the sense that it does not really go all the way into the "government" is part and/or responsible for this mess.
It's strongly suggested but the script does not go in that direction at all.

On the contrary, the conspiracy is within the "fishes" themselves, which is exactly how the PTB would like us to see any "alternative" groups.

There is division between them and that's the kind of thing that cointelpro would do in the real world from within to discredit them or to lead them where they want them to be.

Remember one of the last scene ? Jets are coming from the sea to blast the city to bits.
What gave them the opportunity to send the army and start a civil war within the city ?
The "uprising".
I dunno but that made me think of what the PTB would actually do to eliminate a "problem".

There is obviously nothing of what I wrote in the movie but that's the impression it gave me.
Maybe I am seeing too much into this but it left me uneasy since then.
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Tigersoap said:
Joe said:
well, we all got worked up about his movie and watched a couple weeks ago and...well...not really that impressed. The theme was of interest of course, but I was left thinking that they could have made it so much more truthful. It's a decent enough movie, but not a great movie IMO. Nothing like V or the Matrix.

Joe
I have thought of this movie a lot and some parts bothered me in the sense that it does not really go all the way into the "government" is part and/or responsible for this mess.
It's strongly suggested but the script does not go in that direction at all.

On the contrary, the conspiracy is within the "fishes" themselves, which is exactly how the PTB would like us to see any "alternative" groups.

There is division between them and that's the kind of thing that cointelpro would do in the real world from within to discredit them or to lead them where they want them to be.

Remember one of the last scene ? Jets are coming from the sea to blast the city to bits.
What gave them the opportunity to send the army and start a civil war within the city ?
The "uprising".
I dunno but that made me think of what the PTB would actually do to eliminate a "problem".

There is obviously nothing of what I wrote in the movie but that's the impression it gave me.
Maybe I am seeing too much into this but it left me uneasy since then.
I never thought of it that way. Maybe because I wanted to see what I did see in the movie. Now after reading your post however I think you may have a point there.
I did live in London though for almost 6 years and I felt that that particular society was portrait spot on.
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Fifth Way said:
I never thought of it that way. Maybe because I wanted to see what I did see in the movie. Now after reading your post however I think you may have a point there.
I did live in London though for almost 6 years and I felt that that particular society was portrait spot on.
It did not jump at my face straight away but I got a nagging feeling about the movie although I liked it.
Maybe someone else could explain it better than I did.

I also found the portrayal of the "future" UK quite effective, very well made and not too much sci-fi stuff to make it not believable. Quite chilling.
That's why in some respect I think it fails to fully convince me because after that the whole focus of the movie shifts toward the Fishes/baby plot without going further into explaining why and how this society has become like that.

It's "just" the escape that counts after a while but that does not give enough substance and strips the movie from the interesting political view it had at the beginning imho.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Tigersoap said:
I have thought of this movie a lot and some parts bothered me in the sense that it does not really go all the way into the "government" is part and/or responsible for this mess.
It's strongly suggested but the script does not go in that direction at all.
That's because the movie is told entirely from the perspective of Clive Owen's character. We know what he knows, which is very little. By reading the clues, we can learn a lot. It's kind of like "David Lynch-lite!", where you are not told explicitly what is going on, but there is enough in there to let you figure it out.

How could it have gone any more into the gov't angle without breaking its own rules? We know the following: MI5 is engaging in false flag bombing operations, and that something fishy is up with the flu epidemic and subsequent infertility. Where do we go from there?

On the contrary, the conspiracy is within the "fishes" themselves, which is exactly how the PTB would like us to see any "alternative" groups.
Which is exactly how "alternative" groups ARE, that is, subject to ponerization from within. In other words, there IS no resistance.
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

hkoehli said:
That's because the movie is told entirely from the perspective of Clive Owen's character. We know what he knows, which is very little. By reading the clues, we can learn a lot. It's kind of like "David Lynch-lite!", where you are not told explicitly what is going on, but there is enough in there to let you figure it out.

How could it have gone any more into the gov't angle without breaking its own rules? We know the following: MI5 is engaging in false flag bombing operations, and that something fishy is up with the flu epidemic and subsequent infertility. Where do we go from there?
Yeah, I do not enjoy much movie that take you by the hand for sure (David Lynch should have made it and there would have been a vortex speaking backward on Jazz music.)
Still we speak from our "SOTT" perspective so we have a better view than someone who does not pay attention to the signs.
So I think that if you're not interested in these matters in the first place you'll miss the clues.

hkoehli said:
Which is exactly how "alternative" groups ARE, that is, subject to ponerization from within. In other words, there IS no resistance.
Yes. Good point.
Again we benefit from the knowledge we have on these matters but I don't think anyone else would see it that way without that prior warning osit.
I placed myself in the seat of someone who does not know these things and thought about it from there.
 
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

I appreciated this movie and i do recommend it. What got me was that after Clive Owen's character meets his ex, the leader of the 'resistance', my assumption that they would survive throughout the movie was completely blown away by her shooting death so early in the movie. That definitely got my attention.
Their drive through the prison camp, and what they witnessed left a lasting forboding impression on my mind. Kinda reminded me of wats goin on in Palestine and the Guantanamo prison camps. The movie also reminded me of the game Half Life 2.
 

Ben

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

wilecoyote said:
Their drive through the prison camp, and what they witnessed left a lasting forboding impression on my mind. Kinda reminded me of wats goin on in Palestine and the Guantanamo prison camps.
In an interview I saw with the director of this film (Cuaron?), he explained that the issues raised in this film may be set in the context of the future but are happening right now. For that reason, I found the film particularly harrowing but it made no impression whatsoever on other people I have spoken to who are unaware of the severity of the situation we are in.
 

Joe

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Fifth Way said:
Joe said:
and...well...not really that impressed. [...] they could have made it so much more truthful.
Why don't you elaborate on this a bit. How exactly...?
I would have liked it to be more anti-government, with less emphasis on the rebels being the bad guys and, towards the end, when the uprising occurred in the "ghetto", all of the "uprisers" seemed to be "muslim", while before most of the refugees were more eastern european. Basically, the writer didn't focus enough on the real source of the problems - government.

Joe
 

Z...

The Living Force
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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

I have to say I disagree with you Joe. Well at least this is not the impression that this movie left me with.

From the begining of The Children of Men its obvious that the world is totally f..d up because of the government, police state, martial laws, the chaos and orwelian society in which pathocrats thrive - this is best illustrated when main character pays a visit to his cousin who is in the position of power and we get a glimpse of pathocrats world. Contrast couldnt be stronger.

I also think the point being delivered was that no good change can come about as long as the revolution doesnt hapen on the inside, on the individual level not on the outside, that is why revolutionaries in this movie are nothing but the copy of pathocrats who created them
- revolution that eats its children and corrupted human nature

Since you previously drew comparison with V I would like to comment on that too. yes you are right - V does have more straightforward message but IMO delivery failed. The superhero quality of the main character was to much holywood for my taste. I guess this is the reason why wide audience never really took this movie seriously. I can imagine that most of the average cinema fans understood this move as yet another action film with super hero in slightly more weird costume, and probably forgot all about it as soon as they left the cinema.
Also I was preety much annoyed with certain subplots from the V which seemed to be inserted in the movie for purely cosmetic purpose in order to underline the loss of personal freedoms but in the end they seemed totally out of place.


In any case its all down to personal impressions and the most important thing is that both movies delivered important message, for those equipped to hear or see.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Deckard said:
I have to say I disagree with you Joe. Well at least this is not the impression that this movie left me with.

From the begining of The Children of Men its obvious that the world is totally f..d up because of the government, police state, martial laws, the chaos and orwelian society in which pathocrats thrive - this is best illustrated when main character pays a visit to his cousin who is in the position of power and we get a glimpse of pathocrats world. Contrast couldnt be stronger.

I also think the point being delivered was that no good change can come about as long as the revolution doesnt hapen on the inside, on the individual level not on the outside, that is why revolutionaries in this movie are nothing but the copy of pathocrats who created them - revolution that eats its children and corrupted human nature

Since you previously drew comparison with V I would like to comment on that too. yes you are right - V does have more straightforward message but IMO delivery failed. The superhero quality of the main character was to much holywood for my taste. I guess this is the reason why wide audience never really took this movie seriously. I can imagine that most of the average cinema fans understood this move as yet another action film with super hero in slightly more weird costume, and probably forgot all about it as soon as they left the cinema.
Also I was preety much annoyed with certain subplots from the V which seemed to be inserted in the movie for purely cosmetic purpose in order to underline the loss of personal freedoms but in the end they seemed totally out of place.

In any case its all down to personal impressions and the most important thing is that both movies delivered important message, for those equipped to hear or see.
I agree with Deckard on this one. I LOVED V for Vendetta, but the same argument for why Children of Men 'didn't work' (i.e. it only worked on those who know what's going on in the first place) applies to V. For example, I don't know ONE person who learned anything from V for Vendetta. I actually heard a man telling his kid, after seeing the movie in the theater, that "It's only a movie, that stuff doesn't really happen." To the "uninitiated", V was just an over-the-top conspiracy theory movie.

I really liked the fact that the movie didn't focus on the government, because it still managed to be present in EVERY scene. The propaganda on billboards and on the bus/trains, the police on the streets, the cages, the fact that Michael Cane's character lives hidden in the forest. The sickness of the government was obvious, while the sickness of the "alternative" movement was a shock. That's why I thought it was totally realistic. Most people believe that, if the government is bad, those who oppose it must be good.

And the scene leading up to/after carrying the baby downstairs was AMAZING!
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

I also agree with Deckard and hkoehli!

It is hard enough to slip a movie like that pass the control system. So there fore it is always a tough call to criticize a movie that achieved already that much. Yeah, okay, there is always 'would have, could have, should have'.
I think they went as far as they could.
The sad news is, the movie hasn't even recouped its 70 mio budget (worldwide Gross at 68 right now, means about 5 million people went to see it) while V more than doubled its money (52mio/128mio).
To me CoM felt even more realistic then V which could mean that it may reach MORE people on a level really conscious to the problems of our reality.
To bring a more drastic example: The Matrix!
Within this group here we refer to it all the time. The 1st Matrix grossed half a billion and won 4 Oscars! How many people in the world do you think understand it a s a representative depiction of our actual reality?????
 

Lucius

The Living Force
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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Hi
Good movie , i have download it 2 times ( for better copy to watch )
great idea for making $ at "war" , making THC:) , and in Polish Alcohol.
But it isnt imporant .. its 3rd :) .

I have read somewhere about movie that show people with "Binr code " Kod kresowy at the forehead
but never heart that this movie arrive.
 

Joe

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Children of Men - Extremely Good Film

Children of men comes true!

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=510622007

Forcible deportations of asylum seekers to double in Scotland

THE number of failed asylum seekers forcibly removed from Scotland is set double, the man in charge of immigration north of the Border has revealed.

Phil Taylor, Scottish regional director of the new Border and Immigration Agency (BIA), said an average of five asylum seekers refused permission to stay are currently being forcibly removed every week. [...]
 
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