Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[Evan]

Just sayin, The Twilight Zone episode The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street aired on March 04, 1960, 60 years almost to the day the toilet paper raids began.

 

[Deleted member 9511]

The title of that article, "Coronavirus deaths are so high in Italy that some places have a waiting list for burials and funerals are happening with no family members there", is misleading and a perfect example of the kind of fear-mongering that is at work and that, yes, you seem susceptible to.

The article does not deal with deaths in Italy, it deals with reported death in a city in the far North of Italy called Bergamo. It has a population of 122,000 and a significantly higher percentage of pensioners than the national average. There are many, many reasons why a single city or town in a particular country might have problems with health care provision during a spike in illnesses or deaths. This is the kind of critical thinking that we are trying to encourage here. It has nothing to do with any narrative about "4D" or "lizards" or the "NWO", if that's what you think our focus is, then you're mistaken.

I get it. That's why I've asked. Laura's response was excellent and completely makes sense.

I think that you may be a lucky person who has never had much dealings with any medical system. You are in the US, yes, where the medical system is basically capitalistic and lots of people with health issues who have money to pay, so there are hospitals that are expensive and thus not terribly crowded at any given time.

In the EU, in most countries (someone will correct me if I'm wrong), healthcare is socialized. It's a great system in many respects, but one of the downsides is that it is usually swamped at any given time. In the 17 years I've lived in France now, in a household with several members dealing with health issues, some life-threatening, I've had a lot of exposure to the medical system here. As I said, much of it is terrific, but the "swampedness" of it is often an issue. Quite a number of times, during the hospitalization of a seriously ill family member, I've had to watch while they get shuffled from this room to that, from intensive care to a room to another room, just because the personnel were trying to move people around to make room for the one who needs to be here or there the most. We went through this twice, in December and January and, at one point, there was such a rush to do things that I didn't feel comfortable with, I took the family member OUT of the hospital, home, to receive nursing care there for the same period he would ordinarily have been hospitalized. It really was that bad. He was on IV drips three times a day and the nurse came each time to hook him up and then un-hook him. But I felt the pressure of the medical staff at the hospital to "hurry up and do this so we can free up the bed" and I didn't think it was reasonable to do a dangerous procedure when more treatment was needed BEFORE attempting something invasive. So, home we went.

We have traveled to Italy a number of times and have friends living there and some conversational familiarity with the medical system there. It is way more swamped than the system in France, as we have understood it. They are ALWAYS on the verge of having no beds available at ALL for anybody, under normal circumstances. A lot of people in Italy complain about the totally inadequate medical system that is crumbling before their eyes.

Well, people in France complain about the medical system here now, too. Many of them say it used to be way better. When there is not a rush, when things are "normal" more or less, the care is excellent and the costs are very reasonable, even if you have to pay everything out of pocket. But admittedly, it has been getting a lot more "swamped" in recent years, thus the incident I cited above.

So, again, Italy's system is way less efficient, well set up, stocked, etc. So the very smallest increase of anything at all will drive them over the edge of being able to cope. To have a lot of people recategorized as "critical" or in need of ICU beds, when they have so little wiggle room to start with, and yeah, they are gonna go down.

Add to that the apparent fact that Italy was hit hard for some reason. Elderly population? Rafts of migrants? Tourists? Who knows. But when your healthcare system is on the verge of collapsing anyway, the slightest surge is gonna be bad news.

I hope that helps.

I also get your take on the fearmongering and wanting to encourage critical thinking. I'm always the contrarian. Almost doesn't matter who's doing the talking, I ask questions. It's part of my process of critical thinking, and it's not always pretty. Makes a lot of people uncomfortable. So be it. Thanks for playing along. Much better to have batted this back and forth than if you had ignored my pleas.

 

[Abats]

Well It's not a song like in Italy but this is nice to see too ! This follows a call on the social networks.

Confinés, des Français applaudissent le personnel soignant depuis leurs fenêtres (VIDEOS)

As the French were preparing to spend their first night in confinement, due to the measures taken to fight the pandemic, some of them had gathered at the windows to applaud the medical staff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1239990891852566532

https://twitter.com/x/status/1239994701224214528

 

[Nachtweide]

Schätzung des RKI: Pandemie könnte zwei Jahre dauern

Die Dauer hänge auch stark davon ab, wann ein Impfstoff verfügbar sei, so das Robert Koch-Institut. Für die Gesundheit der Menschen in Deutschland wurde die Risikobewertung auf „hoch“ gesetzt.

www.faz.net

Sounds exactly right. Here is a dystopian scenario for ya: Government will bail out "system-relevant" megacorps: Wall Street and Big Tech mainly, plus perhaps Big Oil and the likes. Together with the government, these will form "the complex". All SME's as well as many industries will either go bankrupt or will be brought 100% under the yoke of "the complex". Food, medicine etc. will be regulated. Everyone will depend on "the complex" financially, technologically and for all the necessities. It will create a war-like permanent state of emergency - complete ("liberal") fascism.

Whether this will come to pass is another question though...

Also my guess. The RKI in Germany has indicated that this pandemic will continue for two more years and one decides depending on the situation. Fine - so you have control and tax authorization in the name of Corona

Schätzung des RKI: Pandemie könnte zwei Jahre dauern

Die Dauer hänge auch stark davon ab, wann ein Impfstoff verfügbar sei, so das Robert Koch-Institut. Für die Gesundheit der Menschen in Deutschland wurde die Risikobewertung auf „hoch“ gesetzt.

www.faz.net

 

[stellar]

You are right and it was strange for me too, because 90 % of his supporters are Russophiles,President Vucic did not mention Russians or (Russian president Putin,neither as a partner nor as a friend nor as a brother) but he did mention China and President Xi as his brother and friend.

But that is not what it caught my attention rather the two facts
1.First I have not see any European flag behind him which I always see and
2. Second that at the end of his addressing to the nation in his speech he said:


That is something that attract my attention, BUT I'm not going any more to waste my energy at all and figure out why this is so, I'll just accept it and wait to see what's hiding and what's going to happen from all of what the President of Serbia said.
Because simply I do not know what is really going on in all this madness I can only just assume it waste my energy and I do not want that

Personally, I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth or his cronies. However, there are a lot of Chinese living in Serbia and have very good relations, so, makes some sense.

 

[Cyrus Wallace]

What I find strange is that anyone witnessing the collective insanity that has gripped large parts of the world would think that any information from the media is in any way objective. I think we need to really impress upon our own awareness the fact that there is a collective hysteria at work and if we are not careful our own thinking will be seriously skewed by it.

I think this is very important. This hysteria seems to be highly contagious and more people are being dragged in. While I try to stay calm and see things objectively (Jesus, this thread is helping tons. Keep it up, folks), you feel like this fear is grabbing your foot and is trying to pull you in. You have to metaphorically slap yourself to keep on track.

Since the hysteria seems to be more contagious than the virus itself, this massive synching has me worried because I don't know what reactions it will bring upon us.

 

[Joe]

I'm always the contrarian.

Nothing wrong with that (I have that tendency myself). As long as you don't become identified with it and become contrary 'just to be contrary', because then you don't learn anything.

Almost doesn't matter who's doing the talking, I ask questions. It's part of my process of critical thinking, and it's not always pretty.

Asking questions is fine, but asking the right questions is even better, and that takes a bit of critical thinking before asking the question, in order to make it a good question that stimulates thought in others. Basically, GIGO.

 

[s1mpleman]

I think this is very important. This hysteria seems to be highly contagious and more people are being dragged in. While I try to stay calm and see things objectively (Jesus, this thread is helping tons. Keep it up, folks), you feel like this fear is grabbing your foot and is trying to pull you in. You have to metaphorically slap yourself to keep on track.

Since the hysteria seems to be more contagious than the virus itself, this massive synching has me worried because I don't know what reactions it will bring upon us.

I was thinking along similar lines after some reactions of late. Like obviously people will remember who was sharing the information about the virus so it would be easy to pass the blame on those that did t conform to the lockdown. For the moment I've just had appeal to emotions thrown at me on Facebook and that lovely graph by the CDC but I've seen some panicked and fearful looks thrown at me for mentioning it's just the flu.

I've been pondering lately on the balance of strategic enclosure Vs sharing the information on Facebook and such, does someone know of a thread that covers this at all? I'm not sure what to search in the search thread but I could do with more information I think.

 

[thorbiorn]

This development is interesting given that just a couple of weeks ago Turkey was attempting to send large numbers of migrants to the EU supposedly as a form of asymmetrical warfare. I'm not saying it's directly connected, but its an interesting coincidence.

If there beyond the apparent coincidence was a relation, was the EU reacting or was the move from Turkey, which may not have acted on its own, a vink to better get moving. Even if the border in the country I live is like closed, it is a least officially, but maybe not in practice, still open for asylum seeker. However in the present conditions, it might be more difficult for anyone trying to move across Europe.

 

[stellar]

Sounds right to me. Trump just said that the US may now be headed towards recession because of Coronavirus, Goldman Sachs and other big names in the financial world are saying this too - as if all the conditions of a crash or economic depression weren't already deep in the process of occurring.

Investor and analyst Gregory Mannarino comments in this video that all the financial news we're seeing from the mainstream media is being obscured by Covid-19, effectively leaving all objective facts out of the equation; "Everything is the Coronavirus!". We may well be on the way to the financial 'reset' we've been hearing about for so many years now - where some new kind of central bank led monetary system gets foisted upon us; 'Because Covid-19'.

So, basically, their intent is to launder their debts using the virus panic and have it disappear as such, claiming that the virus ate the debt and a few undesirables along the way.

 

[Ursus Minor]

This is from "War Of The Worlds" by Orson Welles in 1938

Soon, an announcer was at the crash site describing a Martian emerging from a large metallic cylinder. “Good heavens,” he declared, “something’s wriggling out of the shadow like a gray snake. Now here’s another and another one and another one. They look like tentacles to me … I can see the thing’s body now. It’s large, large as a bear. It glistens like wet leather. But that face, it… it … ladies and gentlemen, it’s indescribable. I can hardly force myself to keep looking at it, it’s so awful. The eyes are black and gleam like a serpent. The mouth is kind of V-shaped with saliva dripping from its rimless lips that seem to quiver and pulsate.”

The Martians mounted walking war machines and fired “heat-ray” weapons at the puny humans gathered around the crash site. They annihilated a force of 7,000 National Guardsman, and after being attacked by artillery and bombers the Martians released a poisonous gas into the air. Soon “Martian cylinders” landed in Chicago and St. Louis. The radio play was extremely realistic, with Welles employing sophisticated sound effects and his actors doing an excellent job portraying terrified announcers and other characters. An announcer reported that widespread panic had broken out in the vicinity of the landing sites, with thousands desperately trying to flee.

The Martians are coming. They are everywhere. They are everywhere!


Eighty-two years on...


The corona virus is coming. It's everywhere. It's everywhere!

 

[Cosmos]

I guess what we are witnessing right now could also primarily be called „a battle for and through our minds“. That phrase/idea came to my mind a couple of times today. So I looked up the famous scene of the Matrix in which Morpheus explains what the „prison for your mind“ is and how it is created/enforced through the system and its agents. Here is the text version and the two relevant scenes:

Take a special note how the matrix tries everything in its power through the system around us and people „plugged into the system“ to pull us into „the prison of the mind“, especially if one tries to get out. I think it is crucial now, more than ever, to keep a cool head and network as much as possible. Something is working hard right now on the minds of people.

 

[Evan]

This is from "War Of The Worlds" by Orson Welles in 1938



The Martians are coming. They are everywhere. They are everywhere!


Eighty-two years on...


The corona virus is coming. It's everywhere. It's everywhere!

Or...

 

[Search]

This may have been suggested somewhere already but anyway. Since the virus seems to infect throat in first place, maybe it's wise to wash our throats daily, even if just with baking soda solution. More powerful as a wash may be something like Gargarin, available in Poland, which is a mix of borax, sodium bicarbonate, sodium benzoate and salt.

As to the risk of getting infected, there's concern often raised about smokers getting infected more. Whether actually true or not, there's a simple response to the claim that it's tobacco smoke that makes one more vulnerable. Smokers put their hands to the lips on a regular basis, while non-smokers rarely do it.

Yeah, it may be true, but they didn’t spoke about people who bite their nails)

I just checked the first result was

It’s dirty and disgusting. So why do we bite our nails?

Like 20-30% of the people in the world bites their nails.



At the same time another result about smoking

List of countries by cigarette consumption per capita - Wikipedia

Like 20% of the population are smokers.

It was just a quick search.

 

[Abats]

The madness continues in France: Going to the funeral of a loved one will be forbidden during the confinement!! It's just shameful and it can have so many dramatic consequences, symbolic impossibility of the mourning process in particular.

Coronavirus : non, il n’est pas possible de se rendre à un enterrement

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe on channel TV France 2

"What I am about to say is terrible to hear, but I must live up to my duties and therefore I will answer no. We must keep travel to a minimum and even then we must not depart from the rule that has been set."