Every year? Holy smokes! I can't remember the last time I got the flu. I hope they're paying you well.

And just for the record, I've never had a flu vaccine.
All employees are of course encouraged to get the vaccine towards which 200 CHF are paid (but only if you have the shot). Some colleagues take the shot and others like me stay a mile away from it. The day that they make it mandatory, will be the day that I stop work :-)
 
Action in the Islands of Canary! We have 1000 tourists in quarantaine in a hotel in Tenerife !

1,000 tourists in Tenerife quarantine after coronavirus diagnosis
Hotel guests have been confined to their rooms after an Italian doctor on holiday tested positive for coronavirus.

As many as 1,000 tourists and staff were on Tuesday confined to a Tenerife hotel in the Spanish Canary Islands after a visiting Italian doctor tested positive for coronavirus, health authorities said.

Guests and staff were being tested for the virus at the H1 Costa Adeje Palace hotel, in the resort of Adeje in the south of the island.

Police are guarding the hotel to stop anyone other than health workers from entering or leaving, and guests were being confined to their rooms.

The unidentified doctor who was diagnosed with the virus on Tuesday voluntarily presented himself for tests because he suspected that he had coronavirus symptoms.

He had spent a week on holiday with his wife at the resort, which is popular with British tourists, when he became unwell.

He is being treated in an isolation unit at the University Hospital Nuestra Senora de Candelaria hospital. More tests will be carried out in Madrid today to confirm the diagnosis.

Spanish media reported that a man and a woman, who are believed to have stayed at the same hotel, have also been transferred to the same hospital for tests.

The doctor diagnosed with the virus is from Lombardy, one of the Italian regions which is seeing serious official restrictions on movement, after seven people died from coronavirus and 229 people were diagnosed.

"We are checking people who had contact with the patient, including the people at the hotel," a spokesman for the Canary Islands' health department told Al Jazeera.

Worried guests at the hotel were concerned they too might have come down with the virus. A room at the four-star hotel costs nearly 200 euros ($217) a night, but a senior source within the Canary Islands government told Al Jazeera: "Right now our priority is the health situation. All questions of who will have to pay for rooms and other arrangements will be dealt with later."

A British tourist, who did not want to be named but said he was on a two-week holiday, told Al Jazeera: "This is scary. They are not telling us anything."

Edward Sanders, another British man staying at the hotel, tweeted a note put under each guest's bedroom door, which read: "Dear guests, we regret to inform you that for healthy reasons, the hotel has been closed down. Until the sanitary authorities warn, you must remain in your rooms."

The Canary Islands is recovering from a sandstorm from the Sahara which caused chaos over the weekend, fanning wildfires and forcing hundreds of flights to be cancelled.

Stacey McCann, 41, from Bury in the United Kingdom, was concerned because some guests from the H10 Adeje Palace Hotel took the same flight as her from Tenerife back to Manchester on Monday.

She tweeted: "Without going into meltdown as families were on our delayed flight [to Manchester] were put up on Saturday night at the H10 Costa Adeje Palace, can you advise what we should do?"

The Italian doctor is the third known case of coronavirus in Spain, although the other two patients have already been discharged after being quarantined at hospitals in La Gomera in the Canary Islands and Mallorca in the Balearic Islands.

David Crespo, the editor of the Cronica de Canarias newspaper, said the popularity of the Canary Islands with tourists all year round meant this could help spread the coronavirus.

"The islands are warm all through the winter and people come here from all over Europe, so with a virus which appears to be spreading through human movement this could present a special danger," he told Al Jazeera.

The outbreak in Italy and its proximity and commercial ties prompted the Spanish government to convene a special commission of various ministries on Tuesday to draw up contingency plans for the spread of the virus.

"This changes a lot of things, it's the beginning of a new period," said Pere Godoy, president of the Spanish Epidemiology Society.

"Until now, the criteria for suspicion were simple: showing symptoms and spending time in the Chinese province of Hubei. It is now urgent to reformulate these criteria in a precise manner, and that it is going to be complicated because the situation in Italy is changing fast, and because of the deep ties between both countries."

Source here
 
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All employees are of course encouraged to get the vaccine towards which 200 CHF are paid (but only if you have the shot). Some colleagues take the shot and others like me stay a mile away from it. The day that they make it mandatory, will be the day that I stop work :-)

Which I think is a wise choice but just out of curiosity, are the one's who get the vaccine fairing any better?
 
Every year? Holy smokes! I can't remember the last time I got the flu. I hope they're paying you well.

And just for the record, I've never had a flu vaccine.

Neither have I. During flu season I'm wearing cheap protection gloves freely available at the gas station.
No public transportation and avoiding throngs.
The last time I got the flu probably was in 2013.
 
Guys, I know the C's said this won't turn into a pandemic but it's looking like that already?

Many isolated cases popping up all over the EU and M.E. today. Markets are also in full freakout mode. If / when it hits the US, markets will flat line! This is scary!

Cases today have cropped up in Germany, Spain, France, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, Bahrain (big jump), Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Algeria etc.

Italy, S.Korea, Iran & Japan still have there localized outbreaks in full swing. China of course is still in there as well.

The question is, when does an outbreak become a pandemic? I'm confused...
 
@Aeneas, apologies, I'm trying to understand your position.

Are you saying that the measures being put in place to stop the spread of this virus (e.g. lockdowns, travel bans etc) should be stopped as they are creating an atmosphere of hysteria when in reality the virus is no worse than the flu and worst case scenario 1000000 people die which is no big deal because the flu killed 600000 in 2018?

Apologies, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from, what you are saying
 
Guys, I know the C's said this won't turn into a pandemic but it's looking like that already?

Many isolated cases popping up all over the EU and M.E. today. Markets are also in full freakout mode. If / when it hits the US, markets will flat line! This is scary!

Cases today have cropped up in Germany, Spain, France, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, Bahrain (big jump), Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Algeria etc.

Italy, S.Korea, Iran & Japan still have there localized outbreaks in full swing. China of course is still in there as well.

The question is, when does an outbreak become a pandemic? I'm confused...
I guess it depends on what precise definition to use. See this article for example:


The spread of the new coronavirus could soon become unstoppable, say scientists who are concerned about a rapid surge in the number and size of outbreaks outside China. Some are even muttering the p-word: pandemic.
...
The latest flare-ups — which include many cases with no clear link to China, as well as signs that some went undetected for weeks — could mean that containing the virus, which causes a disease called COVID-19, is no longer possible.

“The identification of previously unrecognized infections in large numbers in Iran and Italy in particular, and also South Korea, really shows us that it’s likely to be impossible to contain coronavirus,” says Ben Cowling, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong.
...
Officials at the World Health Organization (WHO) in Geneva said on 24 February that the global coronavirus outbreaks do not yet constitute a pandemic — broadly defined as the uncontained spread of an infection in multiple regions. “Does this virus have pandemic potential? Absolutely, it has. Are we there yet? From our assessment, not yet,” said WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. The WHO is sending teams of experts to Italy and Iran to help to control the outbreaks there.

But other scientists say the surge in international cases marks a tipping point in the 2-month-old outbreak. “Whatever WHO says, I think the epidemiological conditions for a pandemic are met,” says Marc Lipsitch, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts. “Under almost any reasonable definition of pandemic, there’s now evidence of it happening.”
...
The WHO’s decision to hold off describing the global outbreaks as a ‘pandemic’ was based in part on data showing that infections in China had peaked between 23 January and 2 February and that control measures, such as the partial lockdown of cities including Wuhan, where the virus originated, had worked to prevent new cases.

But Cowling says that such measures are unfeasible on a broader scale.
A lockdown is likely to be effective only if implemented for weeks or longer, and there is always the risk that easing a quarantine will seed new outbreaks as infected people fan out from cities. “We’ve got to think more carefully about what measures might be sustainable in terms of reducing transmission without shutting down cities completely and stopping people from moving,” he adds.
...
 
Guys, I know the C's said this won't turn into a pandemic but it's looking like that already?

Many isolated cases popping up all over the EU and M.E. today. Markets are also in full freakout mode. If / when it hits the US, markets will flat line! This is scary!

Cases today have cropped up in Germany, Spain, France, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, Bahrain (big jump), Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Algeria etc.

Italy, S.Korea, Iran & Japan still have there localized outbreaks in full swing. China of course is still in there as well.

The question is, when does an outbreak become a pandemic? I'm confused...
Don't worry, very soon. All the actors are in place, the news are hyping the situation.... Very soon I think. Lets make the situation boil a little bit more.
 
Officially, Iran has 95 confirmed cases as at the writing of this.

Unofficially, it looks like that country is in the dog house and the government doesn't realise propaganda won't make the virus disappear into thin air. For example, they still refused to ban religious gatherings and they were saying news of the virus in Iran was all propaganda to destabilise the country etc....

Now even the deputy health minister has tested positive for the virus!!! That's when you know stuff is bad in a country when a health minister of all people tests positive!

 
Guys, I know the C's said this won't turn into a pandemic but it's looking like that already?

Many isolated cases popping up all over the EU and M.E. today. Markets are also in full freakout mode. If / when it hits the US, markets will flat line! This is scary!

Cases today have cropped up in Germany, Spain, France, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, Bahrain (big jump), Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Algeria etc.

Italy, S.Korea, Iran & Japan still have there localized outbreaks in full swing. China of course is still in there as well.

The question is, when does an outbreak become a pandemic? I'm confused...
Maybe they are waiting when the fear will be so high that people will ask their politicians, (the true virus), to close their frontiers and do quarantaine. Save us, saves us we don't want to die! and then WHO will say: it is a pandemic. And then after that the Big Crash.
 
Guys, I know the C's said this won't turn into a pandemic but it's looking like that already?
(...)

Italy, S.Korea, Iran & Japan still have there localized outbreaks in full swing. China of course is still in there as well.

The question is, when does an outbreak become a pandemic? I'm confused...

Hi SOTTREADER, I think those involved in the session would probably be best to answer your question. Here are the quotes from the session, just for the record, and a few of my thoughts below that.

(Joe) Give us a percentage of the coronavirus becoming a REAL pandemic in the sense of global and LOTS of people dying.

A: Low.

Q: (Joe) That's what I thought. It's something else.

(L) But that doesn't mean that there's not another one waiting in the wings that's really serious.

A: Yes

Q: (Artemis) It's just a precursor to the plague.

(L) It's just getting us warmed up.

(Andromeda) It's the movie trailer! [laughter]
Q: (L) Okay, next topic? Is the new coronavirus:
A) an American or Chinese-engineered virus, like an ethnic-specific weapon
B) from outer space
C) just a natural progression of viral evolution and/or mutation

(Andromeda) Or:
D) a combination because of this vaccine that got out of control and it mutated on its own

A: D

Q: (L) So they were messing around making vaccines, and something got loose...

(Artemis) IT GOT OUT! [laughter]

(Gaby) It's like the start of a bad movie.

(Andromeda) And then once it got out, it mutated.

(L) And there ya go.

(Niall) Does that then explain the Chinese response to it?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) They're worried about it, but it's not gonna go anywhere.

(L) They're worried that it could further mutate and cause a real pandemic, but the odds are low.

A: Yes

Maybe the comments in the session need a reference point in terms of how severe this coronavirus will be for the world in term of how many will die from it.

SOTTREADER, have you read much or any of the information on the Black Death or any of the major plagues that hit in the past? The Black Death was like 40% of all people dying from it. Maybe that is the reference point to compare the coronavirus to. That is what I think of in terms of the worst of pandemics, the plague.

The Black Death moved relentlessly northwards through Europe like a giant wave. Its progress was very rapid in the early stages, from December 1347 to June 1348, when it spread through Italy and France, Spain and the Balkans. Crossing the Alps and Pyrenees, it eventually reached Sweden, Norway, and the Baltic by December 1350. Many villages were completely depopulated and disappeared, but the progression of the disease included zones of total avoidance as well. The Black Death stayed in Europe for the next three centuries, disappearing finally in the seventeenth century in 1670 when it was apparently at the peak of its power.
(...)
- The mortality rate was often about 40% of the population, although they had no measure of how many people had fled at the first signs of trouble.

My own personal thoughts are that even if the coronavirus doesn't kill a lot of people, relatively speaking (lets say less than 1% of all people), but causes the manufacturing, trade and basic economic activity to be altered greatly for the world or a significant portion of the world for some extended period of time, that it could have a pretty big impact on things. But that wasn't specifically addressed in the session.

edit added: made some slight adjustments for clarity.
 
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Maybe they are waiting when the fear will be so high that people will ask their politicians, (the true virus), to close their frontiers and do quarantaine. Save us, saves us we don't want to die! and then WHO will say: it is a pandemic. And then after that the Big Crash.


It's just my opinion but I think the EU hasn't gone far enough with its response to what's happening in Italy.

People moving freely between the EU Zone whilst the outbreak rages WILL unwittingly spread the virus and you'll get cases popping up all over the place. Once the cases present themselves the authorities are then in a race to contain but you wonder how successful they'll be if people are free to move around?

So anyways, my prediction is Covid-19 will start to spread in the EU and anyone in the EU will therefore be at risk of getting it unless you live in the middle of nowhere and don't interact with anyone.

The question then becomes, do you think you can beat it if you get it? I suppose we just have to wait to find out!

In Iran, from outside looking in, it looks like the government noticed the virus at some point a couple of weeks ago, decided not to take out any special actions because maybe they thought it's just like a cold and now it's literally everywhere there. Look at the video of that health minister, he didn't look comfortable at all so I'm still not buying that it's just like having a bad cold!

Anyways, this might all just be a losing battle. The virus, at least for the time being appears unstoppable.
 
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