correct response towards psychopathic behaviour

[pescado]

just curious on peoples opinions. sometimes i have a real inner conflict over this.

for instance... a friend of mine attempted to save a man from essentially being beaten to death outside of a club and was shot between the eyes at close range.

a lesser example... today i was watching these 2 young men throwing rocks at ducks because they were in the way of them fishing, although there was a whole river with multiple different locations they could have chosen, and i had this sincere intention of going up and letting them know they're absolute cowards for doing so. but i knew in the end it wouldnt matter.. there would be no lesson learned.

then we look at the pathocracies at work in the world and were incouraged to stand up against them. but arent we just creating division in opposing action?

i feel like an important lesson is that compassion isnt necessarily an action. it can only be learned or intitially understood by observing the world taking its natural course without imposed intervention. but when do you feel is the right time to take action.

'there is a time to let things happen and there is a time to make things happen' - MLK

 

[MichaelM]

Hi pescado,

I too am struggling with this idea.

I recently watched the movie March with the Penguins on DVD. It had both the versions of Morgan Freeman narrating and the actual French scientists who were on the expedition narrating.

(SPOILER ALERT for "March of the Penguins")

The first version, for me was kind of watered down. It tried as much as possible to avoid showing the deaths of the penguins succumbing to weather or predators and completely left out the scientists on the expedition. The other version was more of a travelogue and, in my opinion, more eloquent even without the 'magic touch' of hollywood.

Anyway, I understand that the scientists who are observing make an effort to not interfere with the events that they are observing. So you don't see any rescues of eggs or chicks before they freeze up or the parents being saved from their natural predators.

My wife and I talked about it and we thought up the idea that the scientists should not interevene because it would disturb the 'natural order' of things, no matter how much the deaths of the cute little penguins would pull on your heartstrings. But then from the penguin's perspective, it may be 'expected of' a penguin to look out for each other, as is demonstrated by their huddling together for warmth to protect 'the next generation' during a storm, etc.

If we 'zoom out' this phenomenon by 1 dimension, our 4D bretheren would be the one observing us and would not intervene, as much as our suffering may pull on their heartstrings but as denizens of the 3rd dimension, it is expected of us to help each other out.

At least if help is asked for.
And each situation must be evaluated for itself if help is asked for and if any help will indeed help.
Or so I think.

Your friend (my condolences), instead of ending up with a bullet through his head could have observed and done nothing at the moment then took action after. But then, you wouldn't have had the 'experience' of witnessing your friend get shot in the head and learning what you can from the experience.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone will act according to what they've learned. Before learning what I've learned so far, I had the naivete to think that just getting rid ourselves of the current set of leaders in government would solve the world's problems. And doing something about it would have cost me my life to no effect other than others who will witness my death would learn a lesson.

Observing more of the world and watching out for the opportunities to act with 'maximum effect' is probably what we should aim for. Though by 'maximum effect' I don't mean that the 'scope of effect' should be as large as possible but that the 'result' of your actions to a particular situation (even a lesser example of 2 young men throwing rocks at ducks) would be maximized.
Just confronting the men would probably result to nothing at all if the men care not to learn that their actions are wrong. Writing about it in a forum or a blog and expressing your opinion would reach more people who would be eager to learn from the experience (i.e. learning from others).

 

[pescado]

hi michaelm.. glad someone responded!

my friend was actually a her - http://www.racheldavis.ca/home.htm
she was only 23 when it happened. incredibly sad.

i think in reference to the doc, it is intended to show the way life is for these penguins, so intervening would have negated the purpose of the movie itself. as much as it made me incredibly sad to watch it, it was very moving to see the real struggle involved in the propagation of their species. on a side note... the babies were SOOO cute!! haha... of course they are though, they're babies! anyways..

in terms of confronting the men... i realize that approaching psychopathy with anger/aggresion is pointless. i think that if i were someone that would be perceived as less of a threat getting away with chiding these fellows might be more legit, but possibly still ineffective.. but i'm a big hairy intimidating guy.. they'd see it as a challenge without a doubt. and they wouldnt want to hear it i'm sure.. it was more of an immediate example and maybe one that didnt warrant mentioning, but at the time i was wrestling with the idea of saying something. it was interesting in just observing it... one of the men was definitely more dominant and his friend/lackey would search around finding rocks for him to throw.

i think that even between densities there are 'offerings' bestowed upon us.. puzzles for us to figure out. i think you're right though.. the most important link is finding some sort of solidarity between us in the here and now... whatever that really is.

 

[Russ]

I think it might be best to leave those types of people alone, and focus on people who are willing/ready to learn. Basically, get the message out to those that can hear it. Psychopaths aren't likely to change and energy spent on trying to convert them is a waste imo, and dangerous. Psychopaths thrive because the world is being run by them, and they use peoples ignorance to take advantage of and use people. If you allow people to lose their ignorance, then you can limit the effect of one of the psychopaths main "tools".

 

[pescado]

i agree 100%. sometimes its hard not to feel tempted to take a stand.. not for the benefit of the psychopath but as an example for normal people to observe.

 

[Mike]

for instance... a friend of mine attempted to save a man from essentially being beaten to death outside of a club and was shot between the eyes at close range.

Your friend (my condolences), instead of ending up with a bullet through his head could have observed and done nothing at the moment then took action after. But then, you wouldn't have had the 'experience' of witnessing your friend get shot in the head and learning what you can from the experience.

Perhaps there were other actions that your friend could have taken (call the police or something other than direct confrontation). Maybe I have a hang up on this because if I sat back in a situation similar to this (since I don't know the specifics, I've made assumptions in my mind about the situtation) and that other person was killed or hurt worse and I knew I did nothing, then I know I would struggle to deal with it. Also, I know I would want someone to help me if I was the one being attacked.

i feel like an important lesson is that compassion isnt necessarily an action. it can only be learned or intitially understood by observing the world taking its natural course without imposed intervention.

My view of compassion is that it is felt and not necessarily learned, though a person can learn more about a situation and see the injustice done to others that they didn't see before, which can make them have a reaction of compassion. Where does a person draw the line with this - "...natural course without imposed intervention."?

but when do you feel is the right time to take action.

Depends on the situation and also a person needs to look at what action is the appropriate one for the situation.

 

[vinny]

the correct response towards psychopathic behaviour? very important subject IMHO.

I think that if it can be at all avoided, the best approach is no interaction at all.

However, thats not always possible, so then it becomes a question of how to recognise psychopathic behaviour and then how to defend oneself against it:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=884

pescado, that awful story of your friend - well, maybe she did the right thing, in helping someone in need?
what possible defense its there against getting shot in the head? none, except to not be there at all. she was probably aware that she was putting herself into a certain amount of danger, but obviously wasn't aware of what was going to happen to her, so what was her alternative, to stand by and watch this man beaten to death? You can only do what seems to be right in any given situation, and it always depends on the individual situation, as Mike said.

To better know what's right in any situation, well that needs a general level of awareness and knowedge, so basically the more aware you are, the more likely to make the 'right' decisions, I guess. That's why all the information on here about psychopathy, 'covert aggression' and the like is so valuable.