Creativity in an STS World

[psychegram]

Hey, I responded to 'beadwork', and I've got enough testosterone in me that I went bald at 21 :/ That said the new title is much more appropriate.

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but it seems to fit for me.
I have always been artistic but grew up in an environment that was only supportive of "practical" things and was strongly discouraged from art of any kind.
Mother told me"You should be a nurse or a secretary, there are "starving artists" everywhere, you can never be good enough" but, I could not quench the impulse in myself to create beautiful things

Yes. I, too, was raised in a family that considered art to be impractical. My grandmother lived through the Great Depression and much of her attitudes were shaped by that experience. She raised me for several years (before my father re-married and took me back) and of course she raised my father also and he has many of her attitudes.

I think this is part of why I have thoughts of "I should be doing something more important" (or more practical). For a long time, I rebelled and did what I wanted anyway. I certainly have material ambitions, but they were never enough to make me do "whatever it takes" to be successful. Oh, I tried, but could not live in that world. This attitude is one of the reasons I now live in poverty. I have simplified my life and am actually quite happy with that. We do have the basics and the internet is one of our very few indulgences (or is it a necessity?).

Oh, how I can relate to that. On the one hand, my mother was generally encouraging about the stories I gave her to read, as were my teachers. On the other, my father just couldn't bring himself to say anything good about any of them, and went out of his way to dissuade me from pursuing a career as a writer, encouraging me instead to be practical and get a good-paying job. And being a boy, my father's approval meant a lot more, emotionally, than my mother's (being a more difficult thing to come by), and so, well.... That could be a part of it.

(Amusingly, the situation is reversed with my older sister, a multimedia artist getting into children's books: my father has never been anything but supportive of her, while my mother sort of rolls her eyes....)

'As I was doing it at that time...' Well, it's no secret; I enjoyed scribbling about stuff like politics and religion, prose and poetry, (nothing worth publishing, I do assure you! Cheesy , and nothing approaching the calibre of Laura's works). Reading most of Laura's articles over at the Cass site, and the various threads here dealing with the Work, I came to see my scribbles not only as as self-important vanity, but also, in some articles, as misleading disinfo. Although I believed it to be true at the time. That's all there is to it, really. And, yes, I did find writing to be theraputic and cathartic, especially when it was about our dear leaders.

That describes my situation to a 'T'! All of my old blogs are still online at blogspot, where I used to pontificate on similar subjects ... though I don't recommend you or anyone else reads them. There's little knowledge to be gained (unless one wants to gain a peek into my psychological state at various ages); quite a bit of unconscious disinfo (I was quite the little tramshumanist neocon! Though I'd never have admitted to the latter); and really a lot of bad writing. When I bother to re-read (which is rarely to never), I cringe, wince, and occasionally whimper. Perhaps it's the same for any writer?

Well, I'm not ashamed of any of it. Certainly I disown none; at the time, as bedower said, I thought I was writing the truth and on the side of the angels ... and if I know better now, it's in part because I didn't know then.

So, now I'm trying to integrate all the things I've learned, the new world I'm learning to see ... I certainly haven't given up the blogging, and who knows? Perhaps I've a novel in me yet.

 

[bedower]

What about "Creativity in an STS world", or do you have a better suggestion?

Thanks for not being miffed with me. I think your title is perfect, fwiw, because then it can include both positive and negative creativity.

so it seems some gender stereotypes might be coming into play here

Unintentional, I do endeavour not to stereotype anyone, but going on my own experience of males the response from some I have known would run something like this; "Beadwork? BEADWORK? What do you think I am - a wuss?" But it was that 'loss' that was in my mind when I posted the suggestion. What would be nice here would be for the guy forumites who did skip over the thread title to hold up their hand and say; "Yeah, I did that, mumble, mumble.." That said, I apologise if I've ruffled any guy feathers.

 

[spyraal]

Hello everyone,

I found a lot of interest in this thread. Thank you! I also try to make a living out my artistic skills which is becoming more difficult by the day. I usually earn most of living by doing TV commercials. But under the current global financial and political situation i realize that my job stands on very thin ice and the ice is melting. My job (as any) should ideally require a healthy market and healthy competition to grow. But this is not the case, is it? So i admit here of having some selfish worries and feelings sadness because i think i will not be given a "proper chance", meaning the time and a "fair game" to try out myself and explore my potential, and finally enjoy the fruits of this life long effort and trial depending on my effort. To paraphrase the I Ching, success can come in any number of ways and even fast. But success with a sense greatness takes time and pertinence to achieve. And looking at things, there is ever diminishing room for "greatness" in life and in any profession. But then again, i realize that i am unimportant in the grand scale of things, and there is no special reason why my own selfish wish should be granted. I will share with my fellow men the outcome of their collective choice which is to learn some hard lessons in the years to come. So IMO, all we have left to search for a sense of purpose and greatness is the Work we can do with ourselves, and personally i will try so as that effort can be reflected in the art i create. Because sometimes i would like to think art as an STO way of telling the truth which with it's subtlety can get to the point but not infringe free will. Or this is just my current perspective!

:)

 

[Mountain Crown]

Being an opera singer and voice teacher, I've much interest in this thread. Feelings like "what's the point of continuing" occur often enough for me as well. Some thoughts:

Maybe these feelings reveal a hidden truth about why I perform? In any creative endeavor, especially the performing arts, there is the need for a positive feedback for the product. The self is heavily invested in the creative work. The nature of satisfaction is the key. Is it "notice my talented self," or "I'm glad my effort benefited you in some way?" The latter, being of a STO satisfaction of self, would feel less doubt about continuing.

Since any work uses energy, maybe the creative dry spells are only the result of a temporary deficit due to the effort The Work requires? I say temporary because 4th way Work is done without dropping out of every day activity.

[quote author=Laurelayn]sometimes it really seems STS to spend so much time on myself,[/quote]

Both STS and STO work on self. The how and why is the crux of the matter.

By the way I'm a guy, and I think FireShadow's beadwork is beautiful. Does anyone really think only women create such things? Isn't that analogous to thinking only women cook?

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: Beadwork

[quote author=Tigersoap]
Sometimes there is no "fire" at all and it drives me really mad (and that is just self-importance by the way.)

Question: Could you explain this? I do not deny having plenty of self-importance and am able to recognize it in some of its forms...but I am not sure I understand how having no "fire" and feeling frustrated by it is a form of self-importance.
[/quote]

Hi Fireshadow,

(note: these are just my thoughts on the subject, I don't think I "get" the whole thing yet)

When I am not creative, I get really frustrated and usually I become very angry at myself and by cascade the universe around me for not letting me work on new things in unexpected ways or get the brilliant idea that I should have.
Which is just self-importance.
Why should I always be creative ? or at the top of my skills ?
I have difficulties to allow myself some rest or just idle by thinking, but I know it's part of the process and the way things are but I often try to push against what "is", trying to "force" things out.
A set of programs due to my narcissistic wounds are triggered which sends me into a spiraling negative thought loops about how I am not good enough and things such as "who do you think you are, you are nothing" and a lot of self-pity which is just ridiculous (thank you Negative introject !!).
In a sense these are these contraction moments that helped me the most (after a while), it has a positive side osit.

I am late bloomer, I've had to work hard to go against every programs (and still going) I had during my youth to see that I wasn't worthless. So everything is really complicated for me to dissociate what I am doing with who I think I am. I don't know.

I have tried to think of ways to connect my knowledge to my art, but so far have not made much progress. I do try to incorporate some STO attitudes (or my understanding of STO attitudes) into my business practices. Beyond that, I am at a loss.
Deeper meaning? So far, I am unsuccessful in finding deeper meaning, but perhaps the "lighter stuff" has its own purpose as I see expressed here. Again, thanks for all the comments.

I know the feeling, maybe what is important is the intent behind what every artists do that counts, it does not matter the media used.
When I said deeper meaning, I think that's maybe not something that needs to be forced, you are doing what you are doing and it is what it is.
That was a personal issue projected on you :|, sorry.

Edit: Reading over this post, it occurs to me that I also have an "I" that feels "I should be doing more important things"...is this also more self-importance?

It 's annoying isn't it :D
I think it does because you value yourself according to some ideals that are maybe not realistic because you cannot "do" (I said you but I include myself in this as well.).
That's how I see it though.

 

[FireShadow]

Re: Beadwork

This thread (and not just the comments that I have quoted) has given me some food for thought and I plan on thinking some more on it. One of the things that comes up as I think on this:

More Self-Importance. I was afraid that being "just a jewelry-maker" would make me "less" in the eyes of the forumites here. I see this as a case of my long running programs of "fear of disapproval" "wanting to be accepted" making their appearance. I did not want to admit this out loud - I wanted to keep it hidden, so I could appear "more together". But, my goal is personal growth and greater consciousness. So, I admit it, remembering that I must enter "naked" in order to be capable of that growth. If I avoid showing myself, I miss the opportunity to work.

Hi Bedower!

Thank you for answering my question.

[quote author=Tigersoap]
Sometimes there is no "fire" at all and it drives me really mad (and that is just self-importance by the way.)

Question: Could you explain this? I do not deny having plenty of self-importance and am able to recognize it in some of its forms...but I am not sure I understand how having no "fire" and feeling frustrated by it is a form of self-importance.
[/quote]

Hi Fireshadow,

(note: these are just my thoughts on the subject, I don't think I "get" the whole thing yet)

When I am not creative, I get really frustrated and usually I become very angry at myself and by cascade the universe around me for not letting me work on new things in unexpected ways or get the brilliant idea that I should have.
Which is just self-importance.
Why should I always be creative ? or at the top of my skills ?
I have difficulties to allow myself some rest or just idle by thinking, but I know it's part of the process and the way things are but I often try to push against what "is", trying to "force" things out.
A set of programs due to my narcissistic wounds are triggered which sends me into a spiraling negative thought loops about how I am not good enough and things such as "who do you think you are, you are nothing" and a lot of self-pity which is just ridiculous (thank you Negative introject !!).
In a sense these are these contraction moments that helped me the most (after a while), it has a positive side osit.

I am late bloomer, I've had to work hard to go against every programs (and still going) I had during my youth to see that I wasn't worthless. So everything is really complicated for me to dissociate what I am doing with who I think I am. I don't know. [/quote]

Thank you. I think I see that "feeling worthless" and "expecting more" from oneself is just the other side of the coin of Self-Importance - one side is "feeling special and perfect", the other is "feeling worthless" - the negative and the positive of the same dynamic. By the way, I can relate to much of what you wrote. I have made some progress on the "feelings of worthlessness" issue, but of course, it still pops up now and then.


[quote author=Tigersoap]

I have tried to think of ways to connect my knowledge to my art, but so far have not made much progress. I do try to incorporate some STO attitudes (or my understanding of STO attitudes) into my business practices. Beyond that, I am at a loss.
Deeper meaning? So far, I am unsuccessful in finding deeper meaning, but perhaps the "lighter stuff" has its own purpose as I see expressed here. Again, thanks for all the comments.

I know the feeling, maybe what is important is the intent behind what every artists do that counts, it does not matter the media used.
When I said deeper meaning, I think that's maybe not something that needs to be forced, you are doing what you are doing and it is what it is.
That was a personal issue projected on you :|, sorry.[/quote]

So, if I am understanding something here, motivations can be multiple. For example, part of me is motivated by "accolades" and part of me is motivated to "just create something beautiful" and it is in these motivations that I find meaning...

[quote author=Tigersoap]

Edit: Reading over this post, it occurs to me that I also have an "I" that feels "I should be doing more important things"...is this also more self-importance?

It 's annoying isn't it :D
I think it does because you value yourself according to some ideals that are maybe not realistic because you cannot "do" (I said you but I include myself in this as well.).
That's how I see it though.
[/quote]

Yes, it can be annoying, but we are finding our way out (hopefully).

 

[bedower]

Have you found a way to continue to write without that vanity?

'Fraid not. I'm trying to work around it, which means weighing every word and sentence, and that to me means the writing comes out stiff and dull. But maybe it was that to begin with (O! lost illusion!). But isn't writing a vanity art to begin with? After all, writers write in the hope that their works will be read, appreciated, and accepted as 'good'. At the same time, there are invaluable literary works out there without which humanity would be a lot poorer, osit.

Fwiw, I don't think you are being fair to yourself when you think you are 'just a jewellry maker'. You make things of beauty - what is wrong with that? You are aware of yourself now, it seems to me, and are on the lookout for the pitfalls judging by your posts. Isn't this why you started this thread?

We are STS beings in an STS world, and physically, at least, we have to live within those parameters.

 

[Pierre]

I was afraid that being "just a jewelry-maker" would make me "less" in the eyes of the forumites here.

Hi Fireshadow,

Knowing what you write in this forum shows that you're certainly not only a jewelry maker.

Even if it was the case, those creations are already a great achievement. I liked your bracelet particularly the purple one.

Our "modern" intellectualism societies look down on the craftworks, outsource industries and handmaking activities.

Not so long ago in France a lot of people were craft(wo)men, shoemakers, smiths, welders, plumbers, carpenters, bakers, farmers. People working with their hand and materializing a lot of knowledge, of skills through their creations.

Me thinks there's a lot of nobility in the ones who master a specific art and are able to share their creations. Such craft(wo)men bring a lot to a community : selfreliance, beauty, effective solutions.

As you pointed it out there were probably some programs running when you feared being judged for being just a jewelry maker.

 

[FireShadow]

Have you found a way to continue to write without that vanity?   

'Fraid not. I'm trying to work around it, which means weighing every word and sentence, and that to me means the writing comes out stiff and dull. But maybe it was that to begin with (O! lost illusion!). But isn't writing a vanity art to begin with? After all, writers write in the hope that their works will be read, appreciated, and accepted as 'good'. At the same time, there are invaluable literary works out there without which humanity would be a lot poorer, osit.

Fwiw, I don't think you are being fair to yourself when you think you are 'just a jewellry maker'. You make things of beauty - what is wrong with that? You are aware of yourself now, it seems to me, and are on the lookout for the pitfalls judging by your posts. Isn't this why you started this thread?

We are STS beings in an STS world, and physically, at least, we have to live within those parameters. 

Oh well.  Working around, through, or simply "in spite of" things like vanity and self-importance is sometimes all we can do until we can eliminate the programs.  And, in being able to identify them, we at least stand a chance of that. 

I'm not sure writing is a vanity art in an of itself.  Some writers seem compelled to write, they need to write.  Sure, they hope someone will read it and find value, but hoping someone finds value in something they wrote may not necessarily be vanity.  Perhaps, in some cases, they sincerely want to benefit someone.  Like Laura.

In this discussion, I am reminded of something my hubbie has talked about - The Hodge and the Podge.  The Hodge and the Podge are just nonsensical terms to represent "Light and Dark" or "Good and Evil" or perhaps "STO and STS".  The idea behind them is much like the story of separating the milk from the water. 

It seems that in this discussion of creativity, we are unearthing STS qualities intermixed with STO qualities.  For example, some part of me just wants to make something beautiful and some part of me wants accolades for it and they are so intertwined that it seems impossible to separate them out.  Perhaps, since we are in an STS world (as you point out that we may just have to live within those parameters), we cannot actually eliminate those STS characteristics completely.  However, we can learn to identify them and progress to working around them, etc.

And, I agree.  I am not being fair to myself.  But, when are programs ever fair?  One of the clues that they were programs was that I can't find any evidence here on this forum that anyone here would actually look down on me for being "just a jewelry maker".  So that fear appears quite irrational.  Yet I had the fear.  And, since I have been working on these programs for some time, I can more easily recognize them these days.  I have minimized those programs to some extent over the years, but I just can't seem to get rid of them entirely.  I am very grateful to have this forum to help me continue my work on them.

One of my ways of working around them or "in spite of them" is to take their power away by bringing light to them.  When I acknowledge them and announce their presence, they have less power to prevent me from doing what I intended - to post my comments.

I was afraid that being "just a jewelry-maker" would make me "less" in the eyes of the forumites here.

Hi Fireshadow,

...Our "modern" intellectualism societies look down on the craftworks, outsource industries and handmaking activities.

Not so long ago in France a lot of people were craft(wo)men, shoemakers, smiths, welders, plumbers, carpenters, bakers, farmers. People working with their hand and materializing a lot of knowledge, of skills through their creations.

Me thinks there's a lot of nobility in the ones who master a specific art and are able to share their creations. Such craft(wo)men bring a lot to a community : selfreliance, beauty, effective solutions.

As you pointed it out there were probably some programs running when you feared being judged for being just a jewelry maker.

(Emphasis mine)

Thank you for this.  The bolded part got my attention.  It clicked.  I had not thought of "materializing knowledge".  Although, I do find a sense of satisfaction in doing my part to preserve a craft.  Macrame is also quite practical - one can make bags to carry things, rugs, etc.  The knots are the same, the only things that change are the scale and the purpose.  So, as a micro macrame beadwork artist, I am materializing knowledge of macrame, color, design, etc.  Whatever your craft, you are materializing the knowledge that goes into it.  Ah Ha!  Again, thank you.

Although I was raised by my grandmother who saw art as frivolous, she did see crafts like sewing and crocheting, etc as practical so long as one was making useful items.  My mother (with whom I was re-united at age 26) is a craft woman.  She can pretty much make anything.  She just gets a book and the materials and does it.  I think she is amazing, but I could be biased. 

And, I too, have always had an admiration for handmade things and those who make them.  Handmade items seem to have a "realness" that is just not present in machine mass manufactured stuff.  In other words, I value crafts and I know people and have family members who value crafts, so why do I think forumites here would not value crafts? Sounds like another clue that my fears were based in programs.  Programs are simply not very rational are they? (Edit: I edited this paragraph for clarity.)

Some of my reticence was also some vague feeling that I should only post things that have direct relevance to the Work in some way.  Ha Ha Ha.  What was I thinking?  Everything has relevance when you are Working...or at least a potential for relevance.  Since we do the Work in the context of our lives, everything in our lives has potential relevance.  It was only in taking a risk (and posting) that I was able to see that, though.

To change the focus a bit:

This is a bit difficult to put into words, but I will try.

Another aspect of my difficulties creating beauty once I began to see the extent of the horror in this STS world, is that it is difficult to "get in the mood". 

I sometimes feel so full of grief that I am unable to access joy in creating.  At these times, if I pick up a piece to work on, I just want to cry.  The beauty of the beads and colors and the association with happiness that jewelry carries for me just seem to contrast so sharply with the horror of the world that it brings the horror more into focus. 

At other times, I feel selfish in having something that brings me such joy.  The opportunity/ability to share it with others is a saving grace.  But, I am reminded of a song that goes something like this "How can we sleep while our beds are burning"  Although the song is not exactly about the same thing, it has a resonance for me.  (if you want to hear it, I found a YouTube video of the song - _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10BbpGKLXqk).

On the other hand, perhaps we need some beauty in the world, especially now.  Perhaps, suffering the grief and yet continuing to create what we can has its own meaning.

 

[Hildegarda]

I can't find any evidence here on this forum that anyone here would actually look down on me for being "just a jewelry maker". So that fear appears quite irrational. Yet I had the fear.

For what it's worth, I personally admire artistic ability and craftsmanship. And jewelry making to me is the best of them all, closely followed by pottery.

I used to sew all my own clothes, and did a fair amount of embroidery. My sister is an experienced knitter. When we were growing up, it was a necessity, because very little was available for sale. Having these skills was supremely practical, and when it also is fun for you, than it's even better.

Now, I don't have to do any of that, and I don't have the setup, so I never invested to get this activity going as a hobby. But, when I happen to pass by a hobby or a fabric store, I am always in a state of shock. I just can't get over how much is available to facilitate creativity. All the special buttons, zippers of different length, thread of any color you wish ... gosh, I would have given so much to have those things when I needed them.

With beading, it is even more true. I remember busting my mom's fake pearls and multicolored string of tiny glass beads and recycling them endlessly to decorate my plain hair clips. With all the beading supplies that are available, magazines, forums and networks -- truly, sky is the limit to how much beauty you can create.

You are so lucky, that you have harvested and directed your creativity. I like how your website has both product, patterns and tips & recommendations. And I thought your serpentine bracelets are wonderful!

It seems that in this discussion of creativity, we are unearthing STS qualities intermixed with STO qualities. For example, some part of me just wants to make something beautiful and some part of me wants accolades for it and they are so intertwined that it seems impossible to separate them out.

Yes!! this is exactly my problem too. At some point, I had a shock realizing that in my liking of music, the ugly STS side is way too strong. That caused me to abandon it for years. I am only now starting to come around again, practicing regularly. What helped, I think is that I am at a point that I am old enough that I KNOW I will not be "good" at it, as good as a perfectionist standard I was always measuring myself against, and that somehow is liberating.

I wanted to mention one more thing. As an artist, you naturally have a few projects at once, and work with an ebb and flow of creative energy and inspiration. It is really hard to maintain sustained effort, not is it necessary. A friend who also makes jewelry said she had learned a lot from "Refuse to Choose" and other books by Barbara Sher. She has good strategies for organizing space, using time wisely and balancing various projects and interests. So may be that could be useful.

 

[bedower]

Some writers seem compelled to write, they need to write. Sure, they hope someone will read it and find value, but hoping someone finds value in something they wrote may not necessarily be vanity. Perhaps, in some cases, they sincerely want to benefit someone. Like Laura.

I absolutely agree with you. Some literary works have indeed changed the world; the works of Charles Dickens spring to mind for me, because he drew attention to the social wrongs within his own society as he intended to do. Other forumites will think of other examples. And Laura's work has certainly benefitted me; she's certainly a hard act to follow!

Many thanks for starting this thread. You, and the other posters have given me a lot to think about - which is the whole point of this forum, osit.

 

[fabric]

Hi Fireshadow!

This is a good thread, so hopefully this isn't too much of a distraction. I just want to add that I really like your bead designs!
They have a natural earthy feel to them. Hope you keep making them - the serpentine one is pretty cool

 

[bedower]

Fireshadow, I've just had a browse through your jewellery site, and I have to say that I could quite happily swank about wearing any of your earring sets. Also, I could quite happily flash your ankle bracelets around in the community - absolutely delightful! Although I'm not much for necklaces and bracelets, yours are truly fine works of beauty.

Echoing The Gunslinger, your jewellery is really cool.

 

[FireShadow]

Hi Hildegarda!

Thank you for your lovely words. Yes, I am indeed lucky to have harvested my talent. I tried many things before finding my medium. When I finally found micro macrame, I took to it like a "duck to water". It flowed.

Creative Ideas come in waves, yes and there is a natural ebb and flow to it. But, this recent ebb seemed more than that. Thankfully, due to this exchange with everyone, I think I will be able to find a way to continue. I don't feel as constricted as I did when I first posted this topic. I intend to check into "Refuse to Choose" when I have the time. Thank you for that.

I am glad you have reclaimed music as a form of expression. I have always loved music, but am not at all talented in that area. My singing voice is abysmal, but I still sing for myself and my cats because I love to sing. The cats even seem to like it when I sing them little "kitty ditties". And, yes, it is liberating when you quit worrying about being "good enough".


And, thanks for all the lovely words from everyone else. I admit to enjoying the compliments. Sigh. Just can't get away from those STS responses...

 

[durabone]

Hi FireShadow;

I too have found the paradigm shifts associated with new perspectives to be a distraction from my creative works. It seems only natural.

But I question some of the notions that I, and some here also, have regarding the idea that the creative drive may be a form of STS.

For several years now, I have taken an opposite approach. Nelson Mandela once said that,

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
“Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
“It is our Light, not our Darkness, that most frightens us.

“We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?

“Actually, who are you not to be?
“You are a child of God.

“Your playing small does not serve the world.
“There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.

“We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
“It is not just in some of us, it is in everyone.

“And as we let our light shine,
“we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

“As we are liberated from our own fears,
“our presence automatically liberates others.”


So I believe that fulfillment of potential with integrity and truth must be a key beginning element of STO. IMHO.

Therefore, as tigersoap says:

[quote author=tigersoap]A set of programs due to my narcissistic wounds are triggered which sends me into a spiraling negative thought loops about how I am not good enough and things such as "who do you think you are, you are nothing" and a lot of self-pity which is just ridiculous (thank you Negative introject !!).
[/quote]
These programs are the enemy!

And when I say your jewelry is beautiful, I mean that when I go to my dance tonight, I will look at the wrists of the women I twirl about, I will imagine your bracelets on their wrists. And when I consider what to buy my girlfriend for Christmas, I will think of your beads (she loves that stuff). This is much more than a simple selfish creative act. It must be.