Cycles and

ROEL

ROEL

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Is the concept expounded in Indian philosophy about the creation and destruction of the Universe in a never ending succession of inconceivably long cycles (poetically referred to as the days and the nights of Brahma) a correct representation of reality?
Is there a possibility of even going beyond this to a "place" where there is no duality, that is, there is not even conscience nor life force, no manifestation? This latter "idea," to call it somehow, was put forth by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
 
ROEL said:
Is there a possibility of even going beyond this to a "place" where there is no duality, that is, there is not even conscience nor life force, no manifestation? This latter "idea," to call it somehow, was put forth by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
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Hi ROEL,

Have you read The Wave, Adventures With Cassiopaea, and all the other works by Laura and friends?

To me, a place where there is "no conscience, no life force, no manifestation," is non existence, and if you have read all of Laura's work you should know what that means.
 
ROEL said:
Is the concept expounded in Indian philosophy about the creation and destruction of the Universe in a never ending succession of inconceivably long cycles (poetically referred to as the days and the nights of Brahma) a correct representation of reality?
Is there a possibility of even going beyond this to a "place" where there is no duality, that is, there is not even conscience nor life force, no manifestation? This latter "idea," to call it somehow, was put forth by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
Click to expand...

If you're looking for a way to transcend duality, such a place would have no non-conscience, no non-life force, and no non-manifestation either. Since we are told that time doesn't exist, the cycles of creation and destruction have happened, are happening, and will happen.

You might want to check up on the fellowship of the cosmic mind's statement of beliefs and principles, which is a pdf that can be found here:

http://paleochristianity.org/statement-of-principles/

It has a whole section on cosmology and spiritual development, and serves as a good crash course on the cosmology and nature of the world discussed in the wave in further detail.

Like bngenoh said, those specific desires you stated are more aligned with the desire for non-existence (this is explained in the document), which is the path taken by forces we generally recognize as "evil", even though there is no logical reason to favor existence and consciousness over nonexistence and unconsciousness or vice versa. Most religious philosophy (like that of the dharma) had the goal of helping people to wake up or become more conscious, but much of it can be so distorted that it doesn't help you wake up at all, and cause people to further into illusion.
FWIW.
 
I was probably imprecise in my paraphrasing Nisargadatta. He has to be read to try and grasp what he explains. Anyway, my two questions still stand, the one about cycles and the one about transcending duality. I understand this is a forum about proposing questions for the Cs, and these two questions of mine are simply that: questions for the Cs.
 
:) simple as it is, your questions could be answered here on the forum. There is no need to ask C's since the transcripts are an experiment. The real work and discussion will happen here. So have a patience till somebody answer your questions if it is not done before. For me the two answers are clear and understandable. Please read the recommended material.
 
Hi, hello friend Roel Is the representation of reality through the philosophy of creation and destruction? I think yes, by the following:
Before the beginning of existence was just nothing, if you see is a paradoxical concept, there was not anything. Mathematically it is easier to represent the concept by the equation:

0 = 0

Simple, uncomplicated, timeless, everlasting, without duality. This equation was, is and will therefore is current. Nothing there.
For some reason inexplicable to me, the equation is transformed into:

1 - 1 = 0 or

∞ - ∞ = 0


And here we are enjoying the life, with lots of love and hatred.

If you need a place where there is no duality, only if you do not love or hate forever, but only you can do it if you lose consciousness, but it takes almost an eternity becoming aware ... But because we have become aware almost an eternity? I do not know (ask for Cass) :huh:, but I like it. So the answer is yes, because I like it.
 
These are concepts. As close as they might be from "reality", they are still human interpretations, not reality itself.
How could there be a place for non-duality ? At best, a non-place may be ?
Now, you may believe in these representations if it helps you, but remember they are mental projections, limited beliefs, they are not what is and they eventually will change with your work on knowledge... :grad:
 
ROEL said:
Is the concept expounded in Indian philosophy about the creation and destruction of the Universe in a never ending succession of inconceivably long cycles (poetically referred to as the days and the nights of Brahma) a correct representation of reality?
Is there a possibility of even going beyond this to a "place" where there is no duality, that is, there is not even conscience nor life force, no manifestation? This latter "idea," to call it somehow, was put forth by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
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well, many of the indian guru's has their timelines of how cycles happen. - right or wrong, I haven't seen the number C's mention.

so, you may want to look for long wave cycles and short wave cycles

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=359&lsel=

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=358&lsel=
laura's article
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227222-The-Golden-Age-Psychopathy-and-the-Sixth-Extinction
 
Agreed with ROEL, good point. Also, I want to add one more expansion question related to this topic, about non-being.
It seems like such info is rare and scattered.
Consider this:
26 May 2000
Q: (L) Well, yes we are already pretty vulnerable. Are we going to be MORE vulnerable?
A: What fear have ye, if ye remember that the soul is what counts, and that it is indestructible. Good night.
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MT in his Precis on The Good and The Evil adds that even STS with all the loathe to vivid creation, can't cease 'being':
So it is that the Anti-Logos cannot simply withdraw from the worlds of creation ....
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Is that it, a limit to what cant be done in this universe, where 'all is possible'?

how about this:
24 Nov 1994
Q: (L) So we just have to stay on our toes at all times?
A: Absolutely don’t let others distract you. You have suffered many attempts at distraction away from truth. Now follow some proclamations: Pause. All there is is lessons. This is one infinite school. There is no other reason for anything to exist. Even inanimate matter learns it is all an “Illusion.” Each individual possesses all of creation within their minds. Now, contemplate for a moment. Each soul is all powerful and can create or destroy all existence if know how. You and us and all others are interconnected by our mutual possession of all there is. You may create alternative universes if you wish and dwell within. You are all a duplicate of the universe within which you dwell. Your mind represents all that exists. It is “fun” to see how much you can access.
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I don't think that anything alike 'soul smashing' is directly related here, because we cant grasp the depth of multi-density relations involved, and reverting from 3rd to 1st level of
primal matter today, doesn't necessarily mean the remaining/coupled higher densities selves are wiped or maybe even remotely hurt.


So, the question is:

Can one irrevocably and completely destroy own soul by his own free will choice? Is that, or some comparable event, a possibility?
 
Hi 7th Storm,

Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.
 
Can one irrevocably and completely destroy own soul by his own free will
choice? Is that, or some comparable event, a possibility?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum, 7th Storm :) Make sure you check out the newbie section of the forum for help in navigation, good threads to get started on, and a place to introduce yourself to us and say what brings you here.

With regard to your question, how do you define soul? If you define it as consciousness, consciousness cannot be created or destroyed; it can only become unconscious. You are free to choose consciousness or unconsciousness, of course.

I don't know how much reading you've done, but in the fourth way works like ISOTM and Gnosis, recurrence is spoken of as the fate of those who face the 'second death', to use the Christian term (meaning they fail to grow or maintain an astral body that can survive the death of the physical body). I think their souls become 1D primal matter (the soul goes to the moon, to use Gurdjieff's term), which is not the same as ceasing to exist, but from a 3D perspective this type of awareness might as well be. When the universe is reborn (in 'time', which is another 3D artifact) they arise again and repeat their life as mechanically as before. According to the C's the souls of organic portals rejoin the human soul pool and lose their individual identity. In all of these entropic scenarios, there's no actual annihilation of consciousness except in a limited and subjective sense. But limitation and subjectivity are , after all, what the STS path is all about.

At least, that is my understanding. Any mods, feel free to correct any assumptions or inaccuracies I am making.
 
The soul smashing thing. I am unclear on the who gets smashed: The torturer/accepter of torture/the confessor who yields to the torturer/the tortured one?
I can understand that the torturer/accepter would lose his soul in the end, but not the innocent being tortured.
Areas that appear grey between the good and evil.
 
Thanks for all the posts about my 2 questions. I sense that we may be drifting away from the original proposal of mine and getting into other topics. I admit that for us it is impossible to think of a cause without a cause, so we default to the concept of duality, i.e. can't imagine beyond it. So we find ourselves believing that there can't be/never was anything "before" what we experience. In other words: there's Creation for you, but you know? It was not created, it always was. So let's find a new word, because Creation does not cut it. Can there be "something" beyond it? If so, that would be what I call non-duality, where there is no hot-cold, yes-no, sorrow-happiness, etc.
 
ROEL said:
Thanks for all the posts about my 2 questions. I sense that we may be drifting away from the original proposal of mine and getting into other topics. I admit that for us it is impossible to think of a cause without a cause, so we default to the concept of duality, i.e. can't imagine beyond it. So we find ourselves believing that there can't be/never was anything "before" what we experience. In other words: there's Creation for you, but you know? It was not created, it always was. So let's find a new word, because Creation does not cut it. Can there be "something" beyond it? If so, that would be what I call non-duality, where there is no hot-cold, yes-no, sorrow-happiness, etc.
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Roel,


It sounds to me like what you are asking about is 7th density, where everything is in union with prime creator. The wave series goes into that quite nicely.


Now if your question is "something " beyond that, then one would be implying that one is seeking to remove oneself totally from the whole of creation- that is STS entropy. There are many teachings of the negative path that would have you believe that there is a way to do that, that one could in essence become their own "god" outside of creation. There are many doctrines of entropy that would have you think that you can trancend duality here on this level in 3rd density ( and if one were to do that, how could one possibly have conscience?), when, 3rd density is the level of choosing the way "up" ( creation ) or the way "down" (entropy).


As Laura says, the devil is in the details. There is a huge difference in understanding that both positive and negative are required on all levels for creation to exist, and that of trying to eliminate fully half of the differences in polarity. At the same time that the creative forces are uniting at 7th density, the entropic forces are being spit back out the other end as primal atoms on 1st density.
 
Thank you, EmeraldHope. How difficult it is to communicate! Gurdjieff was right when he said that we do not understand each other, because the same words don't have the same meaning for everyone.

I don't see how I am giving the impression of seeming to be talking about non-being. Far from it. I am trying to lift the veil of duality and try to peek beyond, to see if there could be an Ultimate Absolute where there is freedom of every single level of materiality, from the very crude density of "only matter" to the utmost lightness of "only spirit", this last one being anyway a degree of materiality, though the most ethereal of all.
 
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