Decisiveness: a work in progress

#16
I can certainly relate to the hiding and responsibility aspect and it's a good thing to look out for that. "What do you want to eat/cook?" is a good and simple example. But what I also realized is that you don't have to have an opinion about everything just because some else is interested in something. And there are also people who on the one hand might complain about you not participating actively in a decision process while at the same time those people may not like what you finally say or they can't easily cede responsibility or decisions to someone else. To not get a wrong generalized picture of yourself by these questions and by what others see you might also want to look at situations where you would naturally react differently. For example I saw you love to make music and videos, and in that creative process you're probably not indifferent towards decisions at all i guess. But it sounds to me as if you're already aware of that since you said it's rather small things that come with a little indifference.
 

Desertwolves

The Force is Strong With This One
#17
After realizing a little while ago that I am a very agreeable person, I wanted to look deeper into another aspect of my agreeableness. I originally thought that this lack of assertiveness was fine and that it is just a part of my makeup. After a few sessions with my kinesiologist, who prefers the term decisiveness, and talking with the Aus FOTCM crew on our usual weekly meetups I got some valuable feedback.

Firstly, when it comes to the big things in my life, I am quite capable of being decisive, it's the little things that I have trouble with. For most of the time I just don't seem to have a strong idea of which choice to make. It was pointed out to me that in being indecisive about the small things I am not taking responsibility for that choice/decision. Something as small as what do you want for dinner, my response would normally be, whatever is easier, or what ever you like etc Now that sounds fairly innocuous right? and sure it's not going to cause any major problems, (although it could become quite frustrating for a partner or such who always has to make a decision) but by not making a decision I am cleared of responsibility for the outcome of the meal. If the dinner was bad I assume no responsibility, well I didn't choose this, so it's not my fault. You can see how this plays out I am sure, and I am pretty sure that this works together with my "make nice" program too.

So I have been working on being more decisive and taking responsibility for what I want. The trick I have found, for me at least, is when I am asked a question like what do you want for dinner, chicken or fish? I look inward and see which I have even the slightest inkling for, and that's what I go with. I try to use my intuition as well to help guide me, because I also suffer from over thinking. I am always trying to balance every decision I make (for those into astrology, yes I am a Libra) and that does get a bit wearisome sometimes.

So far I have managed to be more decisive and it has also helped me examine what I actually what in a given situation, which has been pretty liberating. It's a constant struggle though, as I have spent my whole life, well at least as long as I can remember, with this behavior, so I am not expecting to change over night or suddenly change my personality type.

One real life example which I am dealing with at the moment, as trivial as it is, would be that I am thinking of cutting my hair. I have had long hair since I was in my late teens, so over half my life. It was recently brought to my attention that, maybe I hide behind my hair, and I mean that both physically and to an extent psychologically. So now, I am weighing up should I, shouldn't I, how short, will I look stupid and the thoughts go around and around. I even asked a few people whom I trust for their opinion, again, so if it doesn't work out (it looks bad or whatever) I can pass on some of the responsibility, OSIT. So a simple choice becomes something I enumerate on over and over, rather frustrating

I was wondering if anyone else has come up against this and has some experiences or advice on this matter?
Please read this website before you cut your hair. Apparently there is more significance to hair than we are lead to believe. This information really reaonates with me . Especially the Native Americans part.
The Spiritual Nature of Hair and the Truth About Hair and Why American Indians Would Keep Their Hair Long
 

Zar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#18
I don't have much more to add than what has already been said but to add my 2 cents. I've undergone a similar experiment with my indecisiveness (though I had trouble with the big and small choices) and using Joe's advice was the perfect remedy because of the experience that accumulates, and leads you to better understand your programs and the act of taking responsibility. Though I still have some trouble deciding the big choices(more so because of my ever changing understanding), the small ones come very easy. Thought I guess you could see a big choice as being a bunch of small choices in alignment.

And cut your hair to whatever length you like, though you could experiment and cut it very short and see what mental narratives come out. But whatever you decide though, make sure to update your picture for us to see :thup:
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#19
Thanks Zar, good to know that you made good progress!!

well, I'm booked in for a few hours time for the hair cut, I don't think it will be to drastic a change, baby steps haha
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#20
And cut your hair to whatever length you like, though you could experiment and cut it very short and see what mental narratives come out. But whatever you decide though, make sure to update your picture for us to see :thup:
ok, well, it's done, and this is about as short as I could go without freakn out too much haha
I don't look to happy in the before shot, was kind of nervous about it tbh...anyway, thanks everyone for your support, I do feel kind of liberated, but I think it will take some time getting used it. Luckily, the lady who cut my hair was very compassionate about it and I donated my hair to the place I had it done as they use it to make wigs for cancer patients.

b&a.jpg
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#21
To not get a wrong generalized picture of yourself by these questions and by what others see you might also want to look at situations where you would naturally react differently. For example I saw you love to make music and videos, and in that creative process you're probably not indifferent towards decisions at all i guess. But it sounds to me as if you're already aware of that since you said it's rather small things that come with a little indifference.
That is very accurate, when it comes to things that I am passionate about, I have no problem making a decision at all, it's the small stuff, for the most part. I think part of this is for me, is figuring out what I want on all level, whether they be small or big.
 

beetlemaniac

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#22
You mentioned this idea of getting others opinions so you might pass the buck if the decision turns out to be a bad one, twice. What I see is that you don't trust your own motivations where it comes to asking others for advice. I think maybe you should take a look at that mental twist. There's nothing wrong with asking others for their advice or opinions. It's usually a good idea, in fact. However, whatever decision you make is squarely on you nonetheless.
I pretty much agree on your assessment as well genero81. By participating here and asking for help, aren't we making an effort to open our minds to other opinions or points of view so that we may further improve on our decision-making processes? Any choice at a superficial level is a matter of risk vs. reward - but if you zoom out to see a slightly wider picture, it's not as clear cut as the behaviorists would like us to believe. It reminds me of Laura's presentation on Knowledge and Being and multiple timelines in an individual's life, where choices they make can define what their future would look like.

That said, maybe I'm taking it a little too far as I think what you are more concerned with, baz987, are the little choices in life that we make on a daily basis, like what to eat for dinner (oh have I overthunk this one more than once!). Well, in this case, I suppose it depends on your diet - but once you've narrowed it down to chicken or fish it just becomes more like a coin flip - though if you were really careful about what you ate you'd think about where that chicken or fish came from and how it was reared.

On the topic of choices, obyvatel had given me a little gem when I was working on my house renovation project, which I haven't forgotten to this day, it was about two modes of decision-making, ie. "satisficing" vs. maximising:

When we are evaluating options for any project or activity, one potentially helpful tip is to observe our personal style with which we approach the activity. There is for example, a style of maximizing, which seeks to always get the best option and outcome. In academic settings, real life scenarios especially in economics are reduced to a mathematical model and then a maximizing strategy is used to obtain the best outcome. In real life, there is a lot of uncertainty (not just risk) which makes such strategies mostly not work. From a psychological perspective, adopting a maximizing strategy leads to more anxiety and less satisfaction with choices and activities. Even after a successful completion of a project, a maximizer would feel bad if someone makes a comment about how certain aspects could have been done better or at lower cost. This is because the goal of the maximizer is to maximize and any aspect which could be improved upon is a failure from this standard.

An alternative strategy is called satisficing. Theoretically, this means that for a given problem, one sets up a list of expectations or requirements and once a solution is found satisfying these requirements, it is accepted without looking for a better solution. It is useful in real life scenarios where finding perfect solutions is a computationally hard problem. From a psychological perspective, adopting a satisficing strategy leads to less anxiety and more satisfaction with choices and activities since one is not looking for the elusive best. Any new information that comes at the end of a project which shows how a step could have been improved is filed as a lesson learned for the future instead of second guessing the past.
Nice haircut, by the way :-)
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#23
An alternative strategy is called satisficing. Theoretically, this means that for a given problem, one sets up a list of expectations or requirements and once a solution is found satisfying these requirements, it is accepted without looking for a better solution.
Thanks beetlemaniac & obyvatel, I really like that satisficing idea, it makes a lot of sense! And I think, along with the other things mentioned here already, will help stop the overthinking.
 

Alejo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#24
Hi Baz,

Nice haircut! I just wanted to echo what others have said, and raise my hand as I tend to be quite indecisive, or rather my decision making process needs to be very precise and secure. I need to know exactly what’s going to happen when I choose A or B and ruminate over things too much.

This happens, mostly, with big decisions and it should to an extent. But when it happens with small ones it’s honestly a pain and it’s exhausting.

So I recently started to look at it as an analogy, it’s like driving, sometimes you drive and there’s traffic and you could take one of several routes. But if you think too much you’ll crash or people will start honking at you... and if you really really think too much, then you won’t get wherever you’re going, so a process that begun with the intention of getting you there faster, ends up preventing you from getting there at all.

So the way I’ve started to look at it is, sometimes you have to commit to a mistake, not because you are purposefully looking to make a mistake, but more so because there’s no faster way to findout whether what you chose was a mistake or not.

And obviously look within to see where that is coming from. Perhaps you’re not as indecisive everywhere in every situation, perhaps it’s in certain situations with certain people that represent something particular to you.

For example, maybe you are indecisive in small decisions in your relationship because you’re afraid of being not agreeable enough because you are afraid that doing so will get you abandoned by a significant other, or something like that.

Or perhaps you’re indecisive because you “don’t care” to be involved in certain decision making process because you’re angry about something and thats your way to express it, or something along those lines.

In summary, what I’m trying to say is that you should practice to become the person you want to be, but at the same time learn why you were unable to do so by understanding where the blocks came from.

I hope it makes sense
My two humble cents
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#25
ok, well, it's done, and this is about as short as I could go without freakn out too much haha
I don't look to happy in the before shot, was kind of nervous about it tbh...anyway, thanks everyone for your support, I do feel kind of liberated, but I think it will take some time getting used it. Luckily, the lady who cut my hair was very compassionate about it and I donated my hair to the place I had it done as they use it to make wigs for cancer patients.
Baz, it's like you are on your way. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. To me it's like you still look like you only happier. I am trying to not over-think the small stuff a lot lately too. The body-centric container stuff is part of being 3D so I think we should just have fun with it realizing it is the soul that counts. I'm a little jealous now that I am rather bald due to some uncles on my mother's side so more power to those males who can still grow a good looking style and enjoy it. Rock on! :rockon::cool2:
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#26
But when it happens with small ones it’s honestly a pain and it’s exhausting.
Yes, I am finding this to be the case for sure, hence my working towards overcoming it. It really wastes so much time on things that really in the scheme of things don't matter!

So I recently started to look at it as an analogy, it’s like driving, sometimes you drive and there’s traffic and you could take one of several routes. But if you think too much you’ll crash or people will start honking at you... and if you really really think too much, then you won’t get wherever you’re going, so a process that begun with the intention of getting you there faster, ends up preventing you from getting there at all.
Great analogy! I think this sums it up very well, it's interesting that this overthinking and undecisivness go hand on hand. Both of which lead you away from what's important and get in the way of progress. I don't mean to say that big decisions should be entered into lightly, but the small stuff, is, just that, small stuff, so I am not letting that consume my thinking, and as Chu mentioned earlier, the 5 minute rule works well for this. Pick one, commit and move on :)

So the way I’ve started to look at it is, sometimes you have to commit to a mistake, not because you are purposefully looking to make a mistake, but more so because there’s no faster way to findout whether what you chose was a mistake or not.
Absolutely! there's only one way to find out, we can't know the future, and maybe this is what could be at the heart of it for me, trying so hard not to make a "mistake" and predict what the choice may herald. But there is no way of knowing, so, one must commit to something and see what happens.

In summary, what I’m trying to say is that you should practice to become the person you want to be, but at the same time learn why you were unable to do so by understanding where the blocks came from.

I hope it makes sense
My two humble cents
Yes, this is something I am definitely aiming at, thanks Alejo, much appreciated :)

Baz, it's like you are on your way. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. To me it's like you still look like you only happier. I am trying to not over-think the small stuff a lot lately too. The body-centric container stuff is part of being 3D so I think we should just have fun with it realizing it is the soul that counts. I'm a little jealous now that I am rather bald due to some uncles on my mother's side so more power to those males who can still grow a good looking style and enjoy it. Rock on! :rockon::cool2:
Indeed, it is the soul that counts for sure! Maybe some of this has to do with being single again, and worrying about getting older and all that stuff, I am not entirely sure tbh, but I am following my intuition and this is where it has lead me, so onward and upwards as they say :)

haha, thanks mate, yes I am grateful for the locks, I am sure I will keep experimenting with it in time, it is a bit of a shock to the system after having very long hair for so long, but as has said before I can always grow it back
 
#27
This thread is right in time for me, thank you baz and everyone for your comments. I will add my piece as I can relate to what has been said too. Thanks, Joe for simplifying it all and beetlemaniac for quoting obyvatel, I also am in a house renovation project, we also built two wood cabins delivered as a kit, which brings a whole lot of choices to be made without being certain of any end results as it is all new to us, we are not from the construction field.

Materials, application, timing, specificities, I search for different options and presents it to my family group. I am comfortable in doing that I try to please everyone, enounces the good and the bad, what it entails. It has helped the project take a certain direction and find good solutions and I tend to not totally forget the other options even when one has been chosen.

That's where it gets complicated. I really should stop being a maximizer, it brings me out of the present towards anticipation and also towards "we should have done..." I can exhaust them mostly because of my negative tone in announcing things that will be complicated or longer and harder than thought. I say to myself that I'm just presenting what I've been discovering, but what I'm really doing is getting anxious and destabilizing my group.

I overthink and tend to see any minor unexpected problems like a terrible burden. Fortunately, they reassure me by reminding me that what has to be done will be done and tell me when I tend to go over the line. They listen to me too, as what I bring into the picture has to be considered nonetheless, it's just how it affects me (tone, all too concerned attitude, appearing desperate) that must be difficult to live with for them.

In any way, that project is extremely rewarding and brings upfront some automatisms which have to change, I will keep in mind what has been said here. Those automatisms bring many unnecessary burdens.
 

987baz

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#29
I like it Baz, it suits you :thup: I know when I had really long hair, I was always nervous before getting ‘the chop’. I think it’s symbolic of letting go of the old you, and of reinventing yourself. :cool2:

Thanks Arwenn :-) I'm slowly getting used to it. I think there is some letting go of the old and a bit of reinventing going for sure, I just "felt" the time was right! I made the decision, and now I'll see how it goes haha. Either way, I am glad I did it :cool2:

I will keep in mind what has been said here.
I'm glad you've got some benefit out of this thread Starshine, best of luck with the renovations!! Yes, some really valuable advice has been posted here, so thanks to everyone for sharing their advice and wisdom ;-D
 
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