Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

[nature]

@Debra,

Thanks for sharing that incredible journey! Have you considered joining FOTCM? I think the forum has grown much since the beginning days of Yahoo discussion groups (that was long before I joined). Now and then when I read posts I think maybe I should mention FOTCM. It is just a thought and that is open to anyone here too.

It's funny; I was thinking the same just before I read your post!

 

[thorbiorn]

The Afterlife Unveiled What the Dead are Telling Us About Their World by Stafford Betty is a nice introduction to the subject of the afterlife. At the same time, I also think his selection has to be seen in view of his goal. When he here and there writes that a book has so much more or that it is difficult to summarize, then it is probably true, and it could serve as an invitation to read the context of the original and find out what was left out. In case someone else is interested, below is an overview of the sources, used in the Afterlife Unveiled, of which several are freely available. A couple have been mentioned already, so it is not all new. I have not read all of them, just Stainton Moses and Elsa Barker.

Chapter 1: William Stainton Moses: Spirit Teachings (See also, although only mentioned and not used. More Spirit Teachings)
Chapter 2: The Afterlife of Leslie Stringfellow: A Nineteenth-Century Southern Family's Experiences with Spiritualism (Amazon).
Chapter 3: Elsa Barker: Letters from the Afterlife (Amazon) This version is from recent years but it says the foreword and afterword is copyrighted 1995 while the cover is copyrighted 2004. The cover mentions "Written through the hand of Elsa Barker 1914". The Wiki mentions three books, with similar titles and content and which at the time of posting can be found on Archive.org Looking closer and comparing the titles of the chapters, it is clear that the above book is a reprinted version of the first of the following titles:

• Letters from a Living Dead Man (1914, 1920)
• War Letters from the Living Dead Man (1915)
• Last Letters From the Living Dead Man (1919)

Besides the English, there is also a German version: Vom Leben im Jenseits: Botschaften der Zuversicht (German Edition) by Elsa Barker (Amazon)
Chapter 4: Geraldine Cummins: The Road to Immortality (doc format)
Chapter 5: Anthony Borgia: Life in the World Unseen (For a Russian version check here)
Chapter 6: Helen Greaves: Testimony of Light
Chapter 7: Ruth Mattson Taylor: Witness from Beyond Mentioned briefly is Evidence from Beyond (Amazon)

In Russian there are two titles by Stafford Betty and an audio version here. The content and organisation differs a bit from the book in English.

It is already a number of years since I read the first books about the afterlife. If I look back, it is as if each was like putting in a line to the other world, some feeble some stronger, but taken together, its reality is becoming more comprehensible. When comparing what I have read so far with the different flavours associated with the passings of relatives and friends over the years, there is now less uncertainty and more faith and confidence.

While reading different accounts of the afterlife, the overlaps and similarities are hard to miss. In spite of overlaps, some may be disappointed with the differences and of not finding a one to one correspondence with the cosmology of the C's including the different densities.

One way of accounting for the difference is to compare it to taking a photo of a scene from different perspectives and with different cameras, telescopes and microscopes, using different lenses, filters and light projectors. Or one could compare it with a series of decent remote viewers that are given the same object to describe. Each will get something right and perhaps miss out on other details. One observation does not necessarily exclude the other while some claims may be distorted to the point of being not true. In that way it is not so different from reading news stories in our own world. Whether it is about here or about there, one will need to sift though to find what is worth while. Would it surprise if the best of the afterlife channellings are better than the standard MSM reporting on a whole number of subjects?

 

[thorbiorn]

• Letters from a Living Dead Man (1914, 1920)
• War Letters from the Living Dead Man (1915)
• Last Letters From the Living Dead Man (1919)

The first book by Elsa Barker is mentioned in this post:

I recently finished Letters from the Afterlife: A Guide to the Other Side by Elsa Barker and it was pretty interesting read despite the guy from 5D being sometimes repetitive. According to him the most people from 5D are as ignorant as people on the 3D Earth. They retain the same habits, addictions, the same belief systems (including religious ones). There are even religious quarrellings between adherents of different religions there. People who denied afterlife after coming to 5D fall into a deep sleep because of their strong beliefs that there is no afterlife and that they are really dead. The most people there remember only their last incarnation and even this one vaguely.

Knowledge there is not much more freely available than in 3D: you have to dig it in libraries and/or look for advanced teachers. Many people there don't even realize that the matter in 5D is much more lighter than in 3D and is more easily formable by thoughts. But again, you have to learn how to do it.

So, "no free lunch" holds true even for 5D .

Next are a few comments on the second and third volume, but first I would mention that the material in the books taken together can be seen as arguing for a greater interconnectedness between the physical life and the life beyond including the afterlife than is usually acknowledged.

In the three books by Barker there are introductions, where she explains her own position with respect to the material she produced. In volume two, War Letters from the Living Dead Man (1915) one reads:

[...]It may be of interest to some readers if I describe the process of this writing, which has changed gradually from a violent and mechanical seizure of the hand from the outside, as in the beginning of the first book, to a quiet impression on the mind within.

If the reader will imagine a well-known friend of vivid personality present with him, then subtract from that impression the seeing of the physical eye, leaving only the subtle vibration of the actual thinking and feeling presence, then add the indescribable "inner sight," he may begin to realize how I know that "X" is in the room.

It is probable that Helen Keller knows when her friends are near her, and can tell one from the other, though she is deaf and blind.

When made aware of the presence of "X," I take a pencil and a notebook, as any other amanuensis would, and by an effort of will, now easy from long practice, I still the activity of my objective mind, until there is no thought or shadow of a thought in it. Then into the brain itself come the words, which flow out without conscious effort at the point of the pencil. It is exactly as if I heard the dictation with a single auditory instrument, like a small and very sensitive sphere, in the centre of the brain.

I never know at the beginning of a sentence how it will end. I never know whether the sentence I am writing will be the last or if two thousand words will follow it. I simply write on, in a state of voluntary negativity, until the impression of personality described above leaves suddenly. Then no more words come. The writing is at an end for that time.

The question will naturally arise in the mind of the skeptical reader (it has in mine), whether my own subconscious mind has not itself dictated the following "War Letters from the Living Dead Man," in the attempt to explain a world tragedy which would have seemed impossible two years ago.

But from my long experience in writing for "X," and from the fact that during two years I had not written for him except on two or three unimportant occasions, though often thinking of him, and from my acquired habit of minute observation of supernormal phenomena, I now feel safe in assuming that I know the difference between the actual presence of "X" and my own imagination of him, my reminiscence of him, or even the suggestion of his presence from another's mind.

No person who had had even a minute fraction of my occult experience could be more coldly critical of that experience than I am. I freely welcome every logical argument against the belief that these letters are what they purport to be; but placing those arguments in opposition to the evidence which I have of the genuineness of them, the affirmations outweigh the denials, and I accept them.

About the alleged source, the spirit of Judge David Patterson Hatch (1846-1912), she writes:

For the benefit of those who have not read the former book, I wish to say that "X" was not an ordinary man. He came nearer than any other Occidental of my acquaintance to that mastery of self and of life which has been called Adeptship.

To avoid corruption of what is transmitted, "X" and his helpers take steps to avoid interference from other spirits and obstructions from fears or preconceived ideas in the medium. We can not know how successful this was, but in the second book this includes a gradual approach when revealing the modes of operation of negative forces, since the transmission quality requires that the medium can hold her mental an emotional balance without being shocked by the information.

"even the "living dead" do not know everything"
There was a communication close to the time of the sinking of Lusitania by a German U-boat, an event that cost 1198 lives. In the introduction Barker writes:

Before I learned of the Lusitania sinking, but one hour after it had actually taken place, he wrote that the demons whom the workers out there had driven back had rallied and returned to the assault, and that he ought to have known that the very Law of Rhythm would drive them forward again after they had generated another supply of energy.

In the light of rhythmic law, that letter is to me the most interesting part of the book. It illustrates what he has said so often, that even the "living dead" do not know everything, and that the reason why they know so much more than we do is because they have a wider vision and a greater fund of data on which to base their conclusions.

In regard to that second onslaught of the powers of darkness, it is perhaps significant that the letter describing his first conversation with the "dark-veiled one" was written next before the Lusitania letter.

Aside from his narrative, two major ideas seem to dominate "X" in this writing: the mystery of good and evil (love and hate), and the brotherhood of man.

Through his soul-challenging exposition of the conflict between good and evil, both in the human heart and in the universe, a man might learn to protect himself against his own evil as well as against the evil outside him.

When reading about the war, it is clear that the perspective did not take everything into account, or just like they said: "even the "living dead" do not know everything". For instance, the English role in setting the scene for the WW1 was not mentioned, nor that the Lusitania transported much ammunition, a fact which according to the Wiki was only revealed in 1982. I looked up the case and found much more. I mention some of the complications in an excerpt below to underscores that one can afford to be critical about the material one finds:

Churchill and the Sinking of the Lusitania | CODOH

codoh.com

The sinking helped shift public opinion in the United States against Germany, and was a factor in the United States' declaration of war nearly two years later.

Larson gives a fascinating description of the Lusitania as a technological wonder possessing the most luxurious, spacious and comfortable interiors afloat.

The tension grows as Larson marks the seemingly inextricable steps that lead to the catastrophic sinking off the coast of Ireland.

But Larson also gives a remarkable insight into British policies relating to secret code breaking, the use of propaganda, and the efforts of the British "to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in hopes especially of embroiling the United States with Germany."

The words are Winston Churchill's, sent in a letter to Walter Runciman, the head of England's Board of Trade.

While the German U-boat captain, Walther Schwieger and the German high command are heavily criticized, it is First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill's role in the affair which is most surprising. Churchill comes across as a duplicitous schemer, ready to sacrifice women and children and his own countrymen to create a propaganda incident.

He then covered his tracks with brazen lies or the concealment of evidence.

Larson's argument is summarized in a quote of Patrick Beesley, a British naval intelligence officer himself:

"on the basis of the considerable volume of information which is now available, I am reluctantly compelled to state that on balance, the most likely explanation is that there was indeed a plot, however imperfect, to endanger the Lusitania in order to involve the United States in the war."

Larson carefully and effectively marshals the evidence in support of this claim.

Besides the damning letter from Churchill to Runciman, British Naval decisions are described.

They were:

Allowing the Lusitania to travel directly into the area where the First Lord knew a German submarine was sinking ships; Not diverting the Lusitania to the safer North Channel route;Not providing the customary escorts despite the fact that several destroyers were available; Ignoring Cunard chairman Booth's desperate requests for escorts or information regarding German submarine activity; Not instructing the Lusitania to increase is speed; Recalling the ship sent to rescue the people on the sinking Lusitania.

After the sinking, Churchill brazenly lied about important facts and led the scapegoating of Lusitania's captain Turner.

A surprisingly unfavorable picture of Winston Churchill as thoroughly devious person emerges.

Leaving what historians and sources have to say, one of the letters in War Letters from the Living Dead Man which mentions the concept of war and the reality of the inner battles:

Do not be shocked when I say that from our point of view this war seems very childish, very ignorant.

War was noble a long time ago when mankind was on its way out and needed to realize separateness; but in course of time war will become not only unnecessary, but banal.

I am not jesting with serious things. I know far better than you can know how very serious this war is, for I have watched it on both planes.

The war between the forces of good and evil was not banal. In the human heart that war will go on for a long time yet, aeons on aeons; but the day has come when men should war with the evil in themselves, and let other men war with the evil in themselves. The sword of Mars, the war-god, will not rust so long as the Mars in man wields it against the powers of darkness in himself.

I have seen the powers of darkness in men exteriorized, have seen them in objective form, and I assure you they are foemen worthy of your steel. Each of you has within a foeman worthy of his steel.

The following is a bit different from what we see today in the movements influenced by postmodernism.

Much nonsense has been talked and written about universal brotherhood, as about most of the other ideals of mankind. Universal brotherhood is not universal acquiescence in evil; it is universal acceptance of the ideal of good. And you will never have a brotherhood worthy of the name until you raise, not lower, the standard of justice.

In relation to the above quote, though written in the introduction, Barker writes:

"X" speaks of the "dark-veiled one" who inspired Nietzsche in the misleading of young Germany. Perhaps behind every powerful man or woman whose work has told in the world there has been an invisible one, either light or dark-veiled. The question is not without interest, both practical and theoretical. Inspiration, like magic, may be either black or white.

What she is referring to is LETTER XLV THE SUPERMAN which claims to be a dialogue with Friedrich Nietzsche whom "X" meets as the soul is looking for a judge, and letter LETTER XLVI THE ENTERING WEDGE which reads like a conversation between "X" and the "dark-veiled one" who mislead Nietzsche.

The second volume is interesting also when considering what later happened in WW2. One excerpt reads:

That Germany would betray the world was written in the soul of Germany; but if the world should hate her with a continuing hate for that betrayal, it would be a sore in the heart of the human race which would ache for a thousand years. "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

There are several similar passages. It seems that the conditions of the Versaille treaty were such that they provided a momentum for the next war. Pretty much exactly opposite to the advice given. It is hard to say what the result would have been if the advice had been followed. However from the various letters and the mechanics they reveal about the battles between good and evil, one can imagine what some letters could have looked like, had they continued.

The third volume, Last Letters From the Living Dead Man, is about WW1 and the role of the US and its future role:

After another fifty years it will be ripe. Let us hope it will not begin to rot thereafter, but like a sound American apple preserve its solidity for a long time.

50 years from 1918 takes one to around 1968. Interesting isn't it?

In one of the last letters of the third volume one finds:

It is not so terrible to die. It is really far more terrible to be born.

IIf one holds the trials associated with being born and growing up with the one of dying, I can see why this statement may be a position. Usually we pray for those in the more advanced stages of life, at least since prayers were more or less taken out of schools, some of which had prayers that might help the children to connect to the unseen. Now children are taught that there is no other world worth considering than the material one they experience with their ordinary five senses. For some souls that must be very difficult.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

It seems that if a person is conditioned from childhood to be materialistic and deny the reality of other worlds, it has a serious impact on their well-being. I think a lot of depression and evil - both towards others and towards ourselves, comes from that belief in disconnection from the Divine Cosmic Mind. I know this has been discussed in the Evolution/creation thread in terms of Darwinism and all it has done to define people as just a bundle of atoms no more important than a rock and thus justify great evils. But I was thinking it’s just as important to consider what that same materialism would do to a person’s perception of themselves and their own life and place in the universe as well. I really think that when this sense of connectedness and faith in the infinite wisdom and purpose of creation and your interaction and role within it is missing, it makes it so much easier to join destructive groups and adopt ideologies as an attempt to try to fill that void, leading to all kinds of evil.

All those examples of people who feel overburdened and depressed and helpless only to pull themselves out of it after an experience that “restores their faith” make so much sense. It’s amazing how many people, many unconsciously, are simply searching for meaning to their life and reality. And the lack of real sense of immortality and connection to the true source of life, and lacking the sense of being unconditionally loved and accepted by the universe or being able to commune with it from the heart and be heard and understood is soul crushing.

The one thing that truly knows us and loves us is taken away from us. It is probably the most important source of motivation and power. It drives empathy, because I think the connection isn’t truly severed at the subconscious level (except for psychopaths), but it also drives so many other things that you could basically say all that we may consider good, wholesome, healthy, rejuvenating, and purposeful comes from that link.

So I think there is a massive need for healing that indispensable link where it has been severed and a person is just drifting in the wind. It also explains partly why so many are not in touch with their subconscious mind, which retains the link, but consciously they are lost and confused, so they often wrestle with themselves, not understanding where some of their empathy or gut feelings or ideas come from, always in conflict with themselves.

I also think this may explain the many i’s Gurdjieff talks about and why they are there. It’s not just conditioning and programs from external sources. Once you disconnect someone from Source so to speak, I think that leads to development of programs and impulses and behaviors without having to program all of them, simply because the person is now partly “broken” and out of alignment with their true nature and purpose. This disempowerment and conflict with reality leads to a gradual disintegration from desperate and impulsive actions, some of which are simply attempts to recreate the missing connection, often by shallow substitutes.

I dunno, I just think this is why so many of us are just seeking to be heard and understood and loved, and while not a bad thing in and of itself, it’s often a result of this severing of our faith/confidence/peace/power/assurance/comfort/trust that can only come from this connection.

It is worth exploring the full consequences of materialism for sure. If the reality is that it is simply wrong, which it is, then spending your life in direct conflict with your soul just seems profound in implication. The saving grace is that no actual connection is severed, just your acknowledgement and realization or let’s say conscious connection TO the connection that is severed, and that hurts!

I really hope that humanity can find what has been taken from them, because the amount of suffering it causes is just indescribable.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

Excellent thoughtful post

It is worth exploring the full consequences of materialism for sure. If the reality is that it is simply wrong, which it is, then spending your life in direct conflict with your soul just seems profound in implication. The saving grace is that no actual connection is severed, just your acknowledgement and realization or let’s say conscious connection TO the connection that is severed, and that hurts!

I do wonder that once the experience of materialism has lot's it's sheen, what 'hurts' more?

The initial ignorance and stumbling or the deep realization that there is something 'there' - yet we must continue 'here'.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Excellent thoughtful post





I do wonder that once the experience of materialism has lot's it's sheen, what 'hurts' more?

The initial ignorance and stumbling or the deep realization that there is something 'there' - yet we must continue 'here'.

Well many have said, the C’s included, that sometimes getting a glimpse of “there” makes you want to stay there as it feels much better, realer, more like your actual home. But the option to check out is always there, and it’s inevitable anyway in a few decades at most, but the real question is why did we come “here” if “there” is so much more comfortable? I think that question alone should give someone pause - knowing that you chose to be here, and at least respecting your own decision even if you don’t really understand it yet. It’s like having faith in yourself that you didn’t just trip over a space rock and fell to earth, but had a damn good reason to subject yourself to this experience. And chances are you had help and guidance available to help make this choice, so it was probably a very thoughtful decision after much consideration and contemplation. I’d definitely not want to let myself down by checking out early, as the only person I can truly disappoint or frustrate is myself, as the wiser part of me is invested in this choice. And knowing my brain “here” and how dumb and confused it can be, and how little control I seem to have over what it feels and wants and does which isn’t in my best interests, I certainly wouldn’t trust its judgement to check out over my soul’s judgement to come here.

So yeah it’s painful and definitely a struggle, but at least the above can give some peace of mind that I know what I was doing when I came here, and I should have some faith and give it my best shot!

 

[Kaigen]

The Afterlife Unveiled What the Dead are Telling Us About Their World by Stafford Betty is a nice introduction to the subject of the afterlife. At the same time, I also think his selection has to be seen in view of his goal. When he here and there writes that a book has so much more or that it is difficult to summarize, then it is probably true, and it could serve as an invitation to read the context of the original and find out what was left out. In case someone else is interested, below is an overview of the sources, used in the Afterlife Unveiled, of which several are freely available. A couple have been mentioned already, so it is not all new. I have not read all of them, just Stainton Moses and Elsa Barker.

Chapter 1: William Stainton Moses: Spirit Teachings (See also, although only mentioned and not used. More Spirit Teachings)
Chapter 2: The Afterlife of Leslie Stringfellow: A Nineteenth-Century Southern Family's Experiences with Spiritualism (Amazon).
Chapter 3: Elsa Barker: Letters from the Afterlife (Amazon) This version is from recent years but it says the foreword and afterword is copyrighted 1995 while the cover is copyrighted 2004. The cover mentions "Written through the hand of Elsa Barker 1914". The Wiki mentions three books, with similar titles and content and which at the time of posting can be found on Archive.org Looking closer and comparing the titles of the chapters, it is clear that the above book is a reprinted version of the first of the following titles:

• Letters from a Living Dead Man (1914, 1920)
• War Letters from the Living Dead Man (1915)
• Last Letters From the Living Dead Man (1919)

Besides the English, there is also a German version: Vom Leben im Jenseits: Botschaften der Zuversicht (German Edition) by Elsa Barker (Amazon)
Chapter 4: Geraldine Cummins: The Road to Immortality (doc format)
Chapter 5: Anthony Borgia: Life in the World Unseen (For a Russian version check here)
Chapter 6: Helen Greaves: Testimony of Light
Chapter 7: Ruth Mattson Taylor: Witness from Beyond Mentioned briefly is Evidence from Beyond (Amazon)

In Russian there are two titles by Stafford Betty and an audio version here. The content and organisation differs a bit from the book in English.

It is already a number of years since I read the first books about the afterlife. If I look back, it is as if each was like putting in a line to the other world, some feeble some stronger, but taken together, its reality is becoming more comprehensible. When comparing what I have read so far with the different flavours associated with the passings of relatives and friends over the years, there is now less uncertainty and more faith and confidence.

While reading different accounts of the afterlife, the overlaps and similarities are hard to miss. In spite of overlaps, some may be disappointed with the differences and of not finding a one to one correspondence with the cosmology of the C's including the different densities.

One way of accounting for the difference is to compare it to taking a photo of a scene from different perspectives and with different cameras, telescopes and microscopes, using different lenses, filters and light projectors. Or one could compare it with a series of decent remote viewers that are given the same object to describe. Each will get something right and perhaps miss out on other details. One observation does not necessarily exclude the other while some claims may be distorted to the point of being not true. In that way it is not so different from reading news stories in our own world. Whether it is about here or about there, one will need to sift though to find what is worth while. Would it surprise if the best of the afterlife channellings are better than the standard MSM reporting on a whole number of subjects?

Thank you for the post. I was not aware of this book. Even better you can read it online.

 

[3DStudent]

But the option to check out is always there, and it’s inevitable anyway in a few decades at most, but the real question is why did we come “here” if “there” is so much more comfortable? I think that question alone should give someone pause - knowing that you chose to be here, and at least respecting your own decision even if you don’t really understand it yet. It’s like having faith in yourself that you didn’t just trip over a space rock and fell to earth, but had a damn good reason to subject yourself to this experience. And chances are you had help and guidance available to help make this choice, so it was probably a very thoughtful decision after much consideration and contemplation. I’d definitely not want to let myself down by checking out early, as the only person I can truly disappoint or frustrate is myself, as the wiser part of me is invested in this choice.

I thought about this last night. In the Afterlife books we see something like the option of learning anything and more than you can learn here on Earth. Something like Universities. So then why come to 3D where you can learn those things, but with much more struggle and effort? After all, 5D is the "land of milk and honey", no?

I think the simple answer is, "Limits are for learning." There's something about coming here and learning something within material limits that makes it different or of another quality than learning it in 5D. It counts more or has more weight. It's like a game. And a game is scaling down infinity to certain parameters and rules for the goal of learning.

On your second point, it's like: a 5D being (myself) decided that it would be a good idea for me to come here. What do I know "down" here in 3D really that I would know what's best for my learning, at least before birth. It's like when an adult tells a child, "You'll understand later."

 

[Deleted member 4320]

IIf one holds the trials associated with being born and growing up with the one of dying, I can see why this statement may be a position. Usually we pray for those in the more advanced stages of life, at least since prayers were more or less taken out of schools, some of which had prayers that might help the children to connect to the unseen. Now children are taught that there is no other world worth considering than the material one they experience with their ordinary five senses. For some souls that must be very difficult.

This is interesting, no doubt. Many things suggest that we live in The Matrix, the "generated simulation" with very suggestive simulation. This is not literal, of course, that "suggestive simulation" is the outcome of the "Show displayed" by subconscious programs that are written into us by various sources. This distracts us from the simple truth.

Everything is the form of Consciousness because there is no other way of living, experience, and having an influence on the surrounded reality like existing of Consciousness. Everything/everyone, in more or less scale, detects the existence of consciousness in the self because simply recognize that part in themselves, which receives all the signals from the body and the surrounded environment.

Even the materialists whos view is that there is no soul in the body and their consciousness is generated by the brain; then even they see that this "generated consciousness" finally is perceived by something in them which can recognize of the existence of what was generated and the all of the feelings, observation of the outside world, the thoughts in the brain etc., etc... and are conscious that such process occurs.

So, everyone and everything has Consciousness, because everyone experiences, less or more, the range of signals of every nature coming from the outside world, from their insides and know the fact that such thing is happening. Even an atom "know" how to behave. It knows what to do because there is a particle of consciousness which receive in one or another way information and decide. Of course, the restriction and illusion in which such an atom exists almost absolutely enforces the expected outcome, what looks like we are dealing with simple striving for survival almost absolutely determined by designed restriction. What, of course, change in the further development of consciousness.

The Universe/God/7D/Cosmic is this Consciousness, and every being is the aspect of this Consciousness. Those beings are consciousness units that create the experience and lessons for other beings, and those other beings/conscious units create the experience and lesson for this one, specific, individual. In a sense, Cosmic Mind interacts between little parts of his own, and these little parts are we. This huge Consciousness, the Cosmic Mind, is divided into lesser conscious units, beginning from the rock, etc. ending on beings like Cassiopaeans. All of that creates the superconsciousness. The higher level of consciousness includes the lesser form of consciousness.

When everything is Consciousness from the 1D to 7D, then between 3D and 5D, one difference is the level of consciousness of the specific conscious unit. Sometimes we can think about that that after a death we go somewhere, or we die we are outside the body; somebody may thing about being a ghost or something like that. But taking into account the features of the Universe where everything is consciousness, and every consciousness is a certain collection of the information, where the reality surrounded/environment, the "death" of specific conscious unit is also another kind of state of the consciousness.

Human is the form of the 1D, 2D, and 3 Density being. We say about 3D, but what we see the human is the 1D (body: bones, muscles, blood), 2D (all that connect us with animals), 3D the widest spectrum of our experiences we well know. The Cassiopaeans say that they are the representation of us in that ethereal reality of the 6 Density. So, it leads to the conclusion that we are living at the 6 levels of Densities (and even at the 7D - which connect us to all what is Created) at the same moment, and the difference is that we keep our conscious awareness at the specific experience, under the specific limits, and moment in time. This what makes the difference between what kind of experience we experience are changes in the state of the consciousness flowed from our weight of informational package defined our consciousness (all the knowledge we got and the life experiences) and attitude/view on the self-consciousness and all of what consciousness received from outside, finally set the level of consciousness and this experience.

So, in considering what I have written. Death, in fact, is an incorrect statement, because it implies the loss, it implies the tragedy. As we see, it is not the case. The case is the change of the state of consciousness. Another state of the consciousness where an individual gains availability to the whole bank of his/her memory (for instance, that can be named as: look inside one's being). Also gains new perspective of seeing things around. And does not experience the illusion of the 3 Density. Well, I came to the term of the "illusion of the 3 Density".

I allow myself to quote @3DStudent

I think the simple answer is, "Limits are for learning." There's something about coming here and learning something within material limits that makes it different or of another quality than learning it in 5D. It counts more or has more weight. It's like a game. And a game is scaling down infinity to certain parameters and rules for the goal of learning.

We can say that death is just a form of changing the level of consciousness. We know that we and everything around us is a form of consciousness, which is the collection of information.

What is the difference between being alive and being dead then? This is an incorrect question considering the previous arrangements.

Being death and being alive is really the same in the matter of experience of self-consciousness. The difference is between experience certain restrictions/limits/specific parameters or does not experience them or experience of different kinds.

So one could say: "Do not ask me how it's to be death or be alive, because it is the same. Ask me how it is to experience life in this or that kind of limits/lack of limits."

However, unfortunately, most of the population is programmed to do not recognize, do not see, or see it as absurd about what we say. What lead them to the bad in results decisions basing on the false believes about the "life after death", instead to choose on the basis of input from the real consciousness coming from the prospective higher self.

 

[Kmicic]

It's great topic, I learned a lot reading it. For me it seems that who you are in 5D depending on 3D and 4D knowledge (different ghosts say different things). C's say that all of this in 3D is lessons. They also say that it's hard to stay in 3D form for 4D STS. From book about exorcisms I could say that the free will seems to be key. Maybe we are here to learn how to control mind and will in hard times like muscle training and later we use them in 4D to learn the technique and later we are in 5D with all knowledge to gain the 6D

 

[Trobar]

Thank you Joe! This post was very though provoking.

 

[luc]

"even the "living dead" do not know everything"

It's great topic, I learned a lot reading it. For me it seems that who you are in 5D depending on 3D and 4D knowledge (different ghosts say different things). C's say that all of this in 3D is lessons. They also say that it's hard to stay in 3D form for 4D STS. From book about exorcisms I could say that the free will seems to be key. Maybe we are here to learn how to control mind and will in hard times like muscle training and later we use them in 4D to learn the technique and later we are in 5D with all knowledge to gain the 6D

Yes, that sounds about right to me. I think knowledge that there IS an afterlife and that the "soul level" or "spiritual level" is what matters is crucial knowledge and can greatly help mitigate the poisonous effects of the Darwinist-materialist ideology.

However! It seems to me that a lot of what those 5D sources tell us is really about some kind of "dream world" they are living in, corresponding to their development. So just like dreams, these dream worlds aren't "real" in a sense, and therefore should be taken with a big grain of salt.

The best of the channelled literature helps us learn and grow HERE and guides us towards greater KNOWLEDGE and understanding, as opposed to describing some kind of science-fiction 5D dream world. That's what I like about the Stainton Moses material, because it's more about deep philosophical and theological questions than about the "nuts and bolts" of the dream world, which is kind of a contradiction in itself.

What I'm really interested in is: by studying and thinking deeply about OUR world and our experiences and seeing the unseen HERE, what can we know about 4D? How can we get there? I find it useful to approach this without any preconceived assumptions or fantastic speculations, but grounded in what I can learn and know in the here and now. It seems to me that part of 4D reality must be that which shapes the world of thought and experience. Just like an animal's (say a pet) experience is shaped by OUR "world of thoughts", like our knowledge which we apply to shape our houses, forests etc. which determine the animal's experience. But the animal doesn't have access to our knowledge/world of thoughts - it just experiences the effects. Perhaps something similar is going on in our relationship to 4D. Hence it is by in-depth studying and observing our world, and our experiences, our thoughts, emotions and their relationship to the world, history etc. that we may get a glimpse through the veil, or grow towards 4D. Because our very thoughts, experiences and the physical world are embedded in the higher world. So the only way to it is through it - through 3D. And not by taking the "dreams" of 5D people literally, imagining a "magical 3D world". OSIT.

 

[jhonny]

What I'm really interested in is: by studying and thinking deeply about OUR world and our experiences and seeing the unseen HERE, what can we know about 4D? How can we get there? I find it useful to approach this without any preconceived assumptions or fantastic speculations, but grounded in what I can learn and know in the here and now.

I remember a sentence I read a while ago (I don't remember exactly where); "ignorance OR knowledge is carried even to dead", the author of this sentence was refering to a possible reincarnation. Problem is when you read this phrase in one context, in this case knowledge about the after life, which is very tricky as luc mencioned :

It seems to me that a lot of what those 5D sources tell us is really about some kind of "dream world" they are living in, corresponding to their development. So just like dreams, these dream worlds aren't "real" in a sense, and therefore should be taken with a big grain of salt.

So, I think this process of gaining knowledge should be applied in a broader concept of our own reality in the here and now.

When I say in a broader concept, I mean all we are able to learn about our reality, for example: Politics, earth and outer space changes, science, 2D life (our lovely pets), work skills and even other languages, among others. This is why I'm so GRATEFUL to this forum

 

[Deleted member 4320]

However! It seems to me that a lot of what those 5D sources tell us is really about some kind of "dream world" they are living in, corresponding to their development. So just like dreams, these dream worlds aren't "real" in a sense, and therefore should be taken with a big grain of salt.

This is not the case. Those dream worlds are worlds which are consisted of laws, objects, connections between things, etc., which can be unrecognized by some observers, like we, for instance; but as they exist in The Universe and weren't put down, and that they are still part of the Being side The Universe and fulfill some of the destiny in the Bigger Picture and 7D (Universe), have right to exist on objective laws of the universe.

These worlds have the same right to be like our world. For some beings in The Universe, we could be some kind of "dream world," which "shouldn't be taken literally." This is a matter of perspective. Even for man existed in the Middle Age our world with our technology pictured in a book also would be seen as something "not to be taken literally", because everything that he knows about reality wasn't similar to what he would read in the book, and also as being programmed by the surrounded reality it subconsciously creates the expectations about what have right to exist and what has not, disrupting the perception of the objective reality.

This is the same thing with "Alien activity on Earth". People "seem to don't see it" because there is a not eradicated dissonance between reasoning and their programmed self and web of the distractors, which are pulling away from taking any work which can change it.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

This is not the case. Those dream worlds are worlds which are consisted of laws, objects, connections between things, etc., which can be unrecognized by some observers, like we, for instance; but as they exist in The Universe and weren't put down, and that they are still part of the Being side The Universe and fulfill some of the destiny in the Bigger Picture and 7D (Universe), have right to exist on objective laws of the universe.

These worlds have the same right to be like our world. For some beings in The Universe, we could be some kind of "dream world," which "shouldn't be taken literally." This is a matter of perspective. Even for man existed in the Middle Age our world with our technology pictured in a book also would be seen as something "not to be taken literally", because everything that he knows about reality wasn't similar to what he would read in the book, and also as being programmed by the surrounded reality it subconsciously creates the expectations about what have right to exist and what has not, disrupting the perception of the objective reality.

This is the same thing with "Alien activity on Earth". People "seem to don't see it" because there is a not eradicated dissonance between reasoning and their programmed self and web of the distractors, which are pulling away from taking any work which can change it.

The way I took what Luc is saying is to not be concerned with the “forms” but more the essence of how life works, which is universal. So the particulars of the various descriptions of every day life in different worlds are a mix of “this is how our sewage system works” and “this is how we relate to each other, the dynamics of our interactions, the motivations and reasons behind them” and I tend to agree that the latter is more useful to us in terms of learning something of value to reflect on.

I actually did wonder why the nuts and bolts aspects of the afterlife was so similar to what the dead people experienced in their life. Like chariots and horses, even with magical qualities like flying is like.. really? Libraries with books? What happens when someone 5000 years in the future dies with technology that would be incomprehensible to us today - do they go to the land of libraries and horses and sandals too? What about dead 4d dudes whose reality is even more dramatically different - so different that no description would even be possible - how would they mingle with dead 3d dudes and have any kind of shared experience?

I think that a lot of those specifics really are illusions to make people feel comfortable in a somewhat familiar environment with an added “Harry Potter” element to it all. On the flip side I do think there are certain immutable laws that govern progression and learning and polarity, as well as dynamics of how souls relate to other souls, what is considered valuable and falls under category of “lessons”, as in, something everyone shares regardless of their particular environment of choice.

It’s probably something like a Star Trek holodeck, and so people who died in different eras of history will have a version for their comfort. I doubt that a 3d alien on another planet who has no concept of books or horses because they did something entirely different will be in a land of libraries and chariots with horses in 5d. Never mind 3d lifeforms that are radically different as to make their works utterly foreign in every respect to us. The essence of things is probably still relevant, however.

In fact, some of the afterlife channelings do touch upon the fact that their interaction is limited to people from earth, and only the more advanced higher spheres have a wide enough awareness to incorporate bigger and bigger chunks of the universe, perhaps other solar systems, galaxies, etc into their repertoire of responsibility and interaction. So at the “lower spheres” at least, there does seem to be an illusion for convenience and comfort before you are able to discard the need for such.