Devolution

shijing

The Living Force
I wanted to throw out a hypothesis I’ve been thinking about for awhile to see what everyone thinks of it. The basic idea is that physically, species are intelligently designed and begin their stay in our realm at the level of 3rd Density. Over the span of, say, a Grand Cycle, members of a species have the opportunity to evolve their Being to a point where they can cross into 4th Density, and in doing so will take an imprint of their physical form. Failing this, their physical form will devolve into a lower form of life (an animal) as defined by the atrophy and eventual loss of the intellectual center and the increasing specialized adaptation to some environmental niche. When this process of devolution is complete, the species at this point is able to host 2nd Density souls but no longer those of 3rd Density. This process may iterate again (this time with the loss of the emotional center and increasing specialized adaptation to the environment) until the species is only compatible with 1st Density souls.

This hypothesis:

• Predicts that a phylogenetic tree of terrestrial species yields the hierarchy of 4D: the relative age of 4D species (and their place in the pecking order) will appear in the same sequence as those of 3D. For example, Linda Moulton Howe has worked with subjects who claim that mantis beings seem particularly ancient; according to David Jacobs, these outrank reptilians, who are generally their subordinates. This is in general agreement with the mainstream assertion that insects preceded reptiles on Earth.
• Is friendly to the idea of intelligent design, since forward evolution (and the origin of life in simple form) is no longer required.
• May explain some fossil anomalies and OOPAs.
• Suggests that OPs can be an upward bridge for consciousness but a downward bridge for physicality.
• Motivates the cycle of death and reincarnation, since soul evolution and physical devolution run in opposite directions; it also forces the idea of larger cycles which involve the introduction of new 3D lifeforms as older forms devolve.
• Predicts that new 3D life forms will be different than what has occurred up to present, yet will follow a certain trajectory of modification based on the strengths, weaknesses, and general performance of previous ‘models’.
• Predicts the gradual atrophy and then loss of centers – first intellectual, then emotional, and finally moving. Conversely, it may imply the normalization of higher centers in 4D.
• Since 5D exists outside of time, reincarnation isn’t limited to our linear time sequence and can therefore target points in the future for lower learning and points in the past for higher learning. The prediction would be that within some cycle, these may often be mirror images of each other.
• Explains the observation by Elaine Morgan that human bodies are uniquely unspecialized in relation to their environment (and in certain ways poorly adapted), whereas animals are more specialized with adaptations allowing them to thrive in one ecological niche or another: claws for digging, flippers for swimming, fur for warmth, etc.
• May explain one-celled organisms, or even Wilhelm Reich’s bions, as the last stage in a process of devolution.

If this hypothesis is on the right track, an open question would be whether it is mirrored at larger scales, for example in the case of celestial bodies. One of the most serious challenges is the lack of evidence for advanced forms preceding devolved forms in the fossil record – there are likely other problems which confront it as well.

Ouspensky had some discussion about this sort of idea in A New Model of the Universe, quoted earlier on the forum here and reproduced below:

Passing to facts, we must admit that insects are in no way a stage preparatory to the formation of man. Nor could they be regarded as the by-product of human evolution. On the contrary, insects reveal, in their structure and in the structure-of their separate parts and organs, forms which are often more perfect than those of man or animals. And we cannot help seeing that for certain forms of insect life which we observe there is no explanation without very complicated hypotheses, which necessitate the recognition of a very rich past behind them and compel us to regard the present forms we observe as degenerated forms.

This last consideration relates mainly to the organised communities of ants and bees. It is impossible to become acquainted with their life without giving oneself up to emotional impressions of astonishment and bewilderment. Ants and bees alike both call for our admiration by the wonderful completeness of their organisation, and at the same time repel and frighten us, and provoke a feeling of undefinable aversion by the invariably cold reasoning which dominates their life and by the absolute impossibility for an individual to escape from the wheel of life of the ant-hill or the beehive. We are terrified at the thought that we may resemble them.

Indeed what place do the communities of ants and bees occupy in the general scheme of things on our earth? How could they come into being such as we observe them? All observations of their life and their organisation inevitably lead us to one conclusion. The original organisation of the " beehive " and the " ant-hill " in the remote past undoubtedly required reasoning and logical intelligence of great power, although at the same time the further existence of both the beehive and the ant-hill did not require any intelligence or reasoning at all.

How could this have happened?

It could only have happened in one way. If ants or bees, or both, of course at different periods, had been intelligent and evolving beings and then lost their intelligence and their ability to evolve, this could have happened only because their " intelligence " went against their " evolution ", in other words, because in thinking that they were helping their evolution they managed somehow to arrest it.

One may suppose that both ants and bees came from the Great Laboratory and were sent to earth with the privilege and the possibility of evolving. But after a long period of struggle and efforts both the one and the other renounced their privilege and ceased to evolve, or, to be more exact, ceased to send forth an evolving current. After this Nature had to take her own measures and, after isolating them in a certain way, to begin a new experiment.

If we admit the possibility of this, may we not suppose that the old legends of falls which preceded the fall of man relate to ants and bees? We may find ourselves disconcerted by their small size as compared to our own. But the size of living beings is, first of all, a relative thing, and secondly it changes very easily in certain cases. In the case of certain classes of beings, for instance fishes, amphibious animals and insects. Nature holds in her hands the threads that regulate their size and never lets these threads go. In other words Nature possesses the power of changing the size of these living beings without altering anything in them, and can effect this change in one generation, that is, at once, simply by arresting their development at a certain stage. Everyone has seen small fishes exactly like large fishes, small frogs, etc. This is still more evident in the vegetable world. But of course it is not a universal rule, and some beings such as man and most of the higher mammals reach almost the largest size possible for them. As regards the insects, ants and bees most probably could be much larger than they are now, although this point may be argued; and it is possible that the change of size of the ant or the bee would necessitate a considerable alteration in their inner organisation.

It is interesting to note here the legends of gigantic ants in Tibet recorded by Herodotus and Pliny (Herodotus, History, Bk. XI; Pliny, Natural History, Bk. III).

Of course it will be difficult at first to imagine Lucifer as a bee, or the Titans as ants. But if we renounce for the moment the idea of the necessity of a human form, the greater part of the difficulty disappears.

The mistake of these non-human beings, that is, the cause of their downfall, must inevitably have been of the same nature as the mistake made by Adam. They must have become convinced that they knew what was good and what was evil, and must have believed that they themselves could act according to their understanding. They renounced the idea of higher knowledge and the inner circle of life and placed their faith in their own knowledge, their own powers and their own understanding of the aims and purposes of their existence. But their understanding was probably much more wrong and their mistake much less naive than the mistake of Adam, and the results of this mistake were probably so much more serious that ants and bees not only arrested their evolution in one cycle, but made it altogether impossible by altering their very being.

The ordering of the life of both bees and ants, their ideal communistic organisation, indicate the character and the form of their downfall. It may be imagined that at different times both bees and ants had reached a very high, although a very one-sided culture, based entirelyon intellectual considerations of profit and utility, without any scope for imagination, without any esotericism or mysticism. They organised the whole of their life on the principles of a kind of " marxism " which seemed to them very exact and scientific. They realised the socialistic order of things, entirely subjugating the individual to the interests of the community according to their understanding of those interests. And thus they destroyed every possibility for an individual to develop and separate himself from the general masses.

And yet it was precisely this development of individuals and their separation from the general masses which constituted the aim of Nature and on which the possibility of evolution was based. Neither the, bees nor the ants wished to acknowledge this. They saw their aim in something else, they strove to subjugate Nature. And in some way or other they altered Nature's plan, made the execution of this plan impossible.

We must bear in mind that, as has been said before, every " experiment " of Nature, that is, every living being, every living organism, represents the expression of cosmic laws, a complex symbol or a complex hieroglyph. Having begun to alter their being, their life and their form, bees and ants, taken as individuals, severed their connection with the laws of Nature, ceased to express these laws individually and began to express them only collectively. And then Nature raised her magic wand, and they became small insects, incapable of doing Nature any harm.

In the course of time their thinking capacities, absolutely unnecessary in a wellorganised
ant-hill or beehive, became atrophied, automatic habits began to be handed down automatically from generation to generation, and ants became " insects " as we know them; bees even became useful.1

Indeed, when observing an ant-hill or a beehive, we are always struck by two things, first by the amount of intelligence and calculation put into their primary organisation and, secondly, by the complete absence of intelligence in their activities. The intelligence put into this organisation was very narrow and rigidly utilitarian, it calculated correctly within the given conditions and it saw nothing outside these conditions. Yet even this intelligence was necessary only for the original calculation and estimation. Once started, the mechanism of a beehive or of an ant-hill did not require any intelligence; automatic habits and customs were automatically learned and handed down, and this ensured their being preserved unchanged.

" Intelligence " is not only useless in a beehive or an ant-hill, it would even be dangerous and harmful. Intelligence could not hand down all the laws, rules and methods of work with the same exactness from generation to generation. Intelligence could forget, could distort, could add something new. Intelligence could again lead to " mysticism ", to the idea of a higher intelligence, to the idea of esotericism. It was therefore necessary to banish intelligence from an ideal socialistic beehive or ant-hill, as an element harmful to the community—which in fact it is.

Of course there may have been a struggle, a period when the ancestors of ants or bees who had not yet lost the power of thinking saw the situation clearly, saw the inevitable beginning of degeneration and strove to fight against it, trying to free the individual from its unconditional submission to the community. But the struggle was hopeless and could have no result. The iron laws of the ant-hill and beehive very soon dealt with the restless element and after a few generations such recalcitrants probably ceased to be born, and both the beehive and the ant-hill gradually became ideal communistic states.

In his book The Life of the White Ant, Maurice Maeterlinck has collected much interesting material about the Life of these insects, which are still more striking than ants and bees.

At the very first attempts to study the life of white ants Maeterlinck experiences the same strange emotional feeling of which I spoke earlier.

. . .it makes them almost our brothers, and from certain points of view, causes these wretched insects, more than the bee or any other living creature on earth, to become the heralds, perhaps the precursors, of our own destiny.
Further, Maeterlinck dwells upon the antiquity of the termites, which are much more ancient than man, and upon the number and great variety of their species.

After this Maeterlinck passes to what he calls the " civilisation of the termites ".

Their civilisation which is the earliest of any is the most curious, the most complex, the most intelligent, and in a sense, the most logical and best fitted to the difficulties of existence, which has ever appeared before our own on this globe. From several points of view this civilisation, although fierce, sinister and often repulsive, is superior to that of the bee, of the ant, and even of man himself.

In the termitary the gods of communism become insatiable Molochs. The more they are given, the more they require; and they persist in their demands until the individual is annihilated and his misery complete. This appalling tyranny is unexampled among mankind; for while with us it at least benefits the few, in the termitary no one profits.

The discipline is more ferocious than that of the Carmelites or Trappists; and the voluntary submission to laws or regulations proceeding one knows not whence is unparalleled in any human society. A new form of fatality, perhaps the cruellest of all, the social fatality to which we ourselves are drifting, has been added to those we have met already and thought quite enough. There is no rest except in the last sleep of all: illness is not tolerated, and feebleness carries with it its own sentence of death. Communism is pushed to the limits of cannibalism and coprophagy.

. . . compelling the sacrifice and misery of the many for the advantage or happiness of none—and all this in order that a kind of universal despair may be continued, renewed and multiplied so long as the world shall last. These cities of insects, that appeared before we did, might almost serve as a caricature of ourselves, as a travesty of the earthly paradise to which most civilised people are tending.

Maeterlinck shows by what sacrifices this ideal regime is bought.

They used to have wings, they have them no more. They had eyes which they surrendered. They had a sex; they have sacrificed it.

The only thing he omits to say is that before sacrificing wings, sight, and sex, the termites had to sacrifice their intelligence.

In spite of this the process through which the termites passed is called by Maeterlinck evolution. This comes about because, as I have said before, every change of form taking place over a long period of time is called evolution by modern thought. The power of this compulsory stereotype of pseudo-scientific thinking is truly astounding. In the Middle Ages philosophers and scientists had to make all their theories and discussions agree with the dogmas of the Church, and in our day the role of those dogmas is played by " evolution ". It is quite clear that thought cannot develop freely in these conditions.

The idea of esotericism has a particularly important significance at the present stage of the development of the thought of humanity, because it makes quite unnecessary the idea of evolution in the ordinary sense of this word. It has been said earlier what the word " evolution " may mean in the esoteric sense, namely, the transformation of individuals. And in this meaning alone evolution cannot be confused degeneration as is constantly done by " scientific " thought, which regards even its own degeneration as evolution.

The only way out of all the blind alleys created by both " materialistic " and metaphysical thought lies in the psychological method. The psychological method is nothing other than the revaluation of all values from the point of view of their own psychological meaning and independently of the outer or accompanying facts on the basis of which they are generally judged. Facts may lie. The psychological meaning of a thing, or of an idea, cannot lie. Of course it also can be understood wrongly. But this can be struggled against by studying and observing the mind, that is, our apparatus of cognition. Generally the mind is regarded much too simply, without taking into account that the limits of useful action of the mind, first, are very well known, and, second, are very restricted. The psychological method takes into consideration these limitations in the same way as we take into consideration, in all ordinary circumstances of life, limitations of machines or instruments with which we have to work. If we examine something under a microscope, we take into consideration the power of the microscope; if we do some work with a particular instrument, we take into consideration properties and qualities of the instrument— weight, sharpness, etc. The psychological method aims at doing the same in relation to our mind, that is, it aims at keeping the mind itself constantly in its field of view, and at regarding all conclusions and discoveries relatively to the state or kind of mind. From the point of view of the psychological method there are no grounds for thinking that our mind, that is, our apparatus of cognition, is the only possible one or the best in existence. Equally there are no grounds for thinking that all discovered and established truths will always remain truths. On the contrary, from the point of view of the psychological method there can be no doubt that we shall have to discover many new truths, either entirely incomprehensible truths, the very existence of which we never suspected, or truths fundamentally contradicting those which we have recognised until now. Of course nothing is more terrifying and nothing is more inadmissible for all kinds of dogmatism. The psychological method destroys all old and new prejudices and superstitions; it does not allow thought to stop and remain contented with the attained results, no matter how tempting and pleasant these results may appear, and no matter how symmetrical and smooth all deductions made from them may be. The psychological method gives the possibility of re-examining many principles which have been considered as finally and firmly established, and it finds in them entirely new and unexpected meaning. The psychological method makes it possible in many cases to disregard facts or what are taken for facts, and allows us to see beyond facts. Although it is only a method, the psychological method nevertheless leads us in a very definite direction, namely towards the esoteric method, which is in reality an enlarged psychological method, though enlarged in that sense in which we cannot enlarge it by our own efforts.

Gurdjieff has something to say about this in Beelzebub’s Tales. On the origin of the apes, he roundly criticized both evolutionists and devolutionists (which means, at least in the case of apes, he would disagree with the hypothesis I’m proposing here). He asserted instead that apes originated from the sexual relations between human women and various animals during a unique post-cataclysmic period in which this union could produce viable offspring:

"Well, my dear boy, one day while Gornahoor Harharkh was staying with me as my guest and we were observing together the existence of those favorites of yours, we happened to notice a fact, which became the subject of a very serious exchange of opinions between us about the three-centered beings of your peculiar planet.

"The result of this exchange was that I undertook to descend to the surface of that planet and to bring back to the planet Saturn a number of the beings your favorites call 'apes,' in order to carry out certain experiments with them and elucidate the fact that had astonished us."

At this point in his narrative, Beelzebub was brought a "leitoochanbros," that is, a sort of metal plate on which is recorded the text of an etherogram received from somewhere or other, the addressee having only to hold the plate to his organ of auditory perception to hear everything communicated in it. Having listened to the contents of the leitoochanbros, Beelzebub turned to his grandson and said:

"You see, my boy, what coincidences occur in our Great Universe. This etherogram refers to your favorites in connection with the 'ape-beings' I just mentioned. It was sent to me from Mars and informs me, among other things, that the three-centered beings of the planet Earth are once more troubled by the 'ape question.'

"I must first tell you that on account of their abnormal being-existence, there was long ago crystallized and there is periodically intensified in the presence of those peculiar three-brained beings arising and existing on the planet Earth a strange factor, producing from time to time a 'crescendo impulse,' under the action of which they wish to find out at any cost whether they have descended from these apes or the apes have descended from them.

"Judging from the etherogram, this time the question is agitating chiefly the biped beings who breed on the continent called 'America.'

"Although this question always troubles them somewhat, every once in a while it becomes for a long time, as they express it, the 'burning question of the day.'

"I remember very well that this 'agitation of mind' over the origin of the apes occurred among them for the first time when their 'center of culture,' as they also like to express it, was the country of Tikliamish. The starting point of this 'agitation of mind' was the wiseacring of a certain 'learned being of new formation' named Menitkel.

"This Menitkel became a learned being because, in the first place, his childless aunt was an excellent 'matchmaker,' and mixed a great deal with 'power-possessing beings', and because, in the second place, at the age when he was on the threshold of being a responsible being he was given as a birthday present a book entitled Manual of Bon Ton and Love-Letter Writing. As he was financially secure and therefore quite free, thanks to an inheritance from his uncle, a former pawnbroker, he compiled, out of boredom, a massive and erudite work about the origin of these apes, in which he 'cooked up' an elaborate theory supported by all kinds of 'logical proof,' but of course such 'logical proof' as can be conceived and crystallized only in the Reason of those freaks who have taken your fancy.

"This Menitkel then 'proved' by his theory that their 'fellow countrymen,' the apes, were descended from none other than people who had, as they say, 'gone wild.' The other terrestrial beings of that period, as had already become proper to them, believed implicitly this Auntie's darling, without any 'essence- criticism' whatsoever, and from that time on this question, agitating the strange 'Reason' of your favorites, became the subject of disputes and fantasies, right up until what is called the seventh 'great planetary process of reciprocal destruction.'

"Thanks to this maleficent idea there was fixed in the instincts of most of the unfortunates of that period another abnormal so-called 'dictatorial factor,' which began to engender in their common presence the false feeling that these ape-beings were sacred. And this factor, which engendered such a sacrilegious impulse, passed by heredity from generation to generation and reached the instincts of many beings even of the present time.

"As for the false notion cooked up by that 'pawnshop progeny,' it held its ground for nearly two of their centuries and became an integral part of the 'Reason' of most of them. But due to various events growing out of the seventh planetary process of reciprocal destruction, which lasted nearly half a century, it gradually faded away and completely disappeared from their common presence.

"But when their so-called 'cultured existence' became concentrated on the continent of 'Europe,' and when the time again came around for that peculiar disease known as 'wiseacring' to manifest itself with maximum intensity—for this disease, by the way, had long before become subject to the fundamental cosmic law of Heptaparaparshinokh, according to which its intensity had to fluctuate with a certain periodicity—then, to the grief of three-brained beings of the whole Universe, that 'ape question,' or 'who is descended from whom,' once more arose and having become crystallized again became part of the abnormal 'Reason' of your favorites.

"In this instance also, the 'ape question' arose from the stimulus given by a learned being, of course again a 'great' one, but of an altogether 'new formation,' by the name of Darwin. This 'great' scientist, basing his theory on that same logic of theirs, set about 'proving' exactly the opposite of what Menitkel had said, that is, he 'proved' that it was they themselves who were descended from these Mister Apes.

"As for the objective reality of either of the theories of these 'great' terrestrial learned beings, I am reminded of one of the wise sayings of our esteemed Mullah Nasr Eddin:

" 'Luck smiled on them both, for they both managed to find the authentic godmother of the incomparable Scheherazade on an old dunghill '

"In any case, bear in mind that for many centuries this question, among others just as ephemeral, has provided material for the kind of thinking your favorites consider the 'highest manifestation of Reason.'

"In my opinion your favorites could get a correct answer to this question that always agitates them of how the apes arose, if only they really knew how to apply another of the maxims of our dear Mullah Nasr Eddin, who often used to say:

'The cause of every misunderstanding must be sought in woman.'

"If they had made use of this wise maxim to resolve their enigmatic question perhaps they would have finally discovered the origin of these fellow countrymen of theirs.

"As the subject of the genealogy of these apes is indeed exceedingly complicated and unusual, I shall inform your Reason about it from every possible aspect.

"The fact is that neither are your favorites descended from apes nor are apes descended from them, but the cause of the arising of these apes is in this case—as in every other misunderstanding there—their women.

"First of all, I must tell you that none of those terrestrial ape-beings now arising there in various exterior forms ever existed before the second 'transapalnian perturbation', it was only after this disaster that the genealogy of their species began.

"The cause of the arising of these 'misconceived' beings —as well as that of all events more or less serious in the objective sense that occur on the surface of that ill-fated planet—stemmed from two sources totally independent of each other.

"The first, as always, was the same lack of foresight on the part of certain Most High, Most Saintly Cosmic Individuals, and the second was, once again, those abnormal conditions of ordinary being-existence established by your favorites themselves.

"The point is that during the second transapalnian perturbation, besides the chief continent of Atlantis many other large and small land masses entered within the planet, and new land masses appeared in their place. These displacements of various parts of the common presence of this unfortunate planet lasted several of their days, accompanied by frequent planetary tremors and manifestations that could not fail to evoke terror in the consciousness and feelings of beings of every kind.

"During that period many of your three-brained favorites who, together with one-brained and two-brained beings of other forms, had chanced to survive unexpectedly found themselves upon other newly formed land masses in places that were entirely unfamiliar to them. It was just then that many of these strange 'keschapmartnian' three-brained beings of active and passive sex or, as they say, 'men' and 'women,' were compelled for a number of their years to exist apart, that is to say, without the opposite sex.

"Before continuing to relate how all this occurred, I must tell you in a little more detail about that sacred substance which is the final result of the evolving transformations of every kind of being-food and is formed in the presence of every being without distinction of 'brain system ' This sacred substance, elaborated in the presence of beings of every kind, is almost everywhere called 'exioëhary,' but your favorites on the planet Earth call it 'sperm.'

"Through the all-gracious foresight and command of our Common Father Creator and according to the actualization of Great Nature, this sacred substance arises in the presence of all beings, without distinction of brain system or exterior coating, in order that by its means they may consciously or automatically fulfill that part of their being-duty which consists in the continuation of their species But in the presence of three-brained beings it also arises in order that they may consciously transform it for coating their higher being-bodies for their own being.

"Before the second transapalnian perturbation there, which the contemporary three-brained beings refer to as the 'loss of the continent of Atlantis,' in the period when various consequences of the properties of the organ kundabuffer had already begun to be crystallized in their presence, a being-impulse was gradually formed in them which later became predominant.

"This impulse is now called 'pleasure', and in order to satisfy it they were already beginning to exist in a manner unbecoming to three-centered beings, that is to say, most of them gradually began to remove this sacred being- substance from themselves for the satisfaction of this impulse alone.

"Well, my boy, from then on most of the three-brained beings of the planet Earth were not content to carry out the process of the removal of this substance, which is continuously elaborated in them, only at those periods normally established by Great Nature for beings in accordance with their organization, for the purpose of the continuation of their species. Owing to this, and also to the fact that most of them had ceased to utilize this substance consciously for coating their higher being-bodies, it came about that when they did not remove it from themselves in ways that by then had become mechanical, they naturally experienced a sensation called 'sirklinimana,' a state they describe as 'feeling out of sorts,' and which is invariably accompanied by what is called 'mechanical suffering.'

"Remind me at some opportune moment about those periods fixed by Nature for the normal process of the utilization of the exioëhary by beings of different brain-systems for the continuation of their species, and I shall explain this to you in detail.

"Well then, they like ourselves are only 'keschapmartnian' beings, and when this sacred substance, continuously and inevitably formed in them, is utilized normally for the continuation of their species by means of the sacred process 'elmooarno,' its removal from their presences must be accomplished exclusively with the opposite sex. But these three-brained beings who by chance had escaped disaster were no longer in the habit of utilizing this substance for coating their higher being-bodies and, as they were already existing in a manner unbecoming to three-brained beings, when they were obliged to exist for several of their years without beings of the opposite sex, they turned to various antinatural means for the removal from themselves of this sacred substance, exioëhary.

"The beings of the male sex had recourse to the antinatural means called 'moordoorten' and 'androperasty' or, as the contemporary beings would say, 'onanism' and 'pederasty,' and these antinatural means fully satisfied them.

"But for the three-brained beings of the 'passive sex' or, as they call them, 'women,' these antinatural means were not sufficiently satisfying, and so the poor 'women-orphans' of that time, already more cunning and inventive than the men, began to seek out beings of other forms and accustom them to be their 'partners.' Well then, it was after these 'partnerships' that there began to appear in our Great Universe those species of beings which, as our dear Mullah Nasr Eddin would say, are 'neither fish nor fowl.'

"As regards the possibility of this abnormal blending of two different kinds of exioëhary for the conception and formation of a new planetary body of a being, it is necessary to give you the following explanation:

"On the planet Earth, as on other planets of our Universe where 'keschapmartnian' beings breed and exist—that is, three-brained beings in whom the formation of the sacred exioëhary for the creation of a new being must take place exclusively in the presences of two beings of distinct, independent sexes—the fundamental difference between the sacred exioëhary formed in the presences of beings of opposite sexes, that is, in men and women, consists in this, that in the exioëhary formed in the presences of beings of the male sex, the localized 'holy affirming' or 'positive' force of the sacred Triamazikamno participates, while in the exioëhary formed in beings of the female sex there participates the localized 'holy denying' or 'negative' force of the same sacred law.

"Thanks to the all-gracious foresight and command of our Father of everything existing in the Universe, and in accordance with the actualizing power of Great Mother Nature, in certain surrounding conditions and with the participation of the third separately localized holy force of the sacred Triamazikamno, namely, with the 'holy reconciling' force, the blending of the exioëhary formed in two separate beings of distinct, independent sexes during the process of the sacred 'elmooarno' taking place between them brings about the arising of a new being.

"In the case I was speaking of, the abnormal blending of two heterogeneous kinds of exioëhary was possible only by virtue of a certain cosmic law known as the 'affinity of the numbers of the totality of vibrations,' which began to act owing to the second transapalnian perturbation on this ill-fated planet, and which then still continued to act on its common presence.

"Concerning this cosmic law, it is important to tell you that it arose and began to exist in the Universe after the fundamental sacred law of Triamazikamno had been modified by our Creator in order to render the Heropass harmless, and after its holy parts, until then entirely independent, had become dependent upon forces from outside. But, my boy, you will understand this cosmic law in all its aspects only when I shall explain in detail, as I have promised you, all the fundamental laws of world-creation and world-existence.

"Meanwhile, you should know that on normally existing planets anywhere in our Great Universe the exioëhary formed in the presence of a three-brained being having organs of perception and transformation for localizing the 'holy affirming' force of the sacred Triamazikamno, in other words, the exioëhary formed in a three-brained keschapmartnian being of the 'male' sex, can never be blended— owing to that same law—with the exioëhary formed in the presence of a two-brained keschapmartnian being of the opposite sex.

"On the other hand, when a special combination of cosmic forces occurs and this same law of the 'affinity of the numbers of the totality of vibrations' begins to act, the exioëhary formed in a three-brained keschapmartnian being of the 'female' sex can sometimes, in certain surrounding conditions, blend quite well with the exioëhary formed in two-brained keschapmartnian beings of the male sex, but only as the active factor in the actualizing process of the fundamental sacred Triamazikamno.

"In short, during those terrible years on that planet of yours, a phenomenon very rare in the Universe appeared, that is, a blending of the exioëhary of two keschapmartnian beings of different brain systems and of opposite sexes, and the result was the arising of the ancestors of these terrestrial 'misconceived' beings now called 'apes,' who give your favorites no peace, and from time to time so agitate their strange Reason.

"But when this terrible period was over, a relatively normal process of ordinary existence was reestablished on your planet, and your favorites of different sexes again began to find each other and exist together, and thereafter those 'ape-beings' actualized the continuation of their species among themselves.

"And this continuation of their species was possible because the conception for the arising of the first of these abnormal beings had taken place according to the same external conditions that in general determine the presences of future keschapmartnian beings of active or passive sex.

"The most interesting result of this highly abnormal manifestation of the three-brained beings of your planet is that there now exist a great many species of the descendants of these ape-beings, differing in exterior form, and each of these different species bears a striking resemblance to some form of two-brained quadruped being still in existence there.

"This came about because the blending of the exioëhary of the keschapmartnian three-brained beings of the female sex, which brought about the arising of the ancestors of those apes, proceeded with the active exioëhary of the various species of quadruped beings that exist there even until today.

"Indeed, my boy, during my last personal stay on the planet Earth, when I happened in the course of my travels to come across the various species of apes and, in accordance with a habit that has become second nature, I observed them, I ascertained definitely that the whole of their outer functioning and the so-called 'automatic postures' of each 'species' of these contemporary apes are exactly like those in the common presence of certain normally arisen quadruped beings there, and their 'facial features' are even exactly the same as those of particular quadrupeds. As for the 'psychic features' of all the different species of these apes, they are absolutely identical, even down to minute details, with those of the psyche of the three-brained beings of the 'female sex' there."

At this point in his tales Beelzebub became silent. After a long pause he looked at his favorite Hassein with a smile that clearly expressed a double meaning. Then, still smiling, he said:

"The text of the etherogram I have just received also indicates that this time, in order to settle once and for all who is descended from whom—they from the apes or the apes from them—these freaks, your favorites, have decided to carry out 'scientific experiments', and several of them have already left for the continent of Africa, where many of these apes breed, with the object of bringing back the number required for these 'scientific investigations' of theirs.

"To Judge by this etherogram, the beings of the planet Earth who have taken your fancy are once again up to their usual 'tricks.'

"From all I have learned about them during my observations, I foresee that this 'scientific experiment' will unquestionably arouse the serious interest of the rest of your favorites, and will for a time serve their strange Reason as material for endless discussion and argument. And all this will be quite in the order of things there.

"Concerning the 'scientific experiment' itself which they propose to carry out with the apes brought from Africa, I can say in advance with certainty that, at any rate, the first part of it will succeed with flying colors.

"And it will succeed because the apes themselves, issuing from what is called a 'titillarian result,' are by nature very fond of occupying themselves with titillation, and before the day is out will no doubt play their part and enthusiastically assist your favorites in this 'scientific experiment.'

"As for the beings who propose to carry out this experiment, and as for any benefit to be derived from it by the other three-brained beings there, you can get a good idea of the whole thing if you remember the profoundly wise saying of our honorable Mullah Nasr Eddin 'Happy is the father whose son is busy even with murder and robbery, for then he will have no time to teach him titillation.'

FWIW, this is the closest thing I can find to the Cs addressing this topic, although I think they're discussing devolution more in terms of consciousness than in the physical sense which I'm using here:

October 3 said:
Q: (L) Okay, Bill Brooks writes in response to Mike: ‘There is evidence for the case that mankind is devolving rather than evolving. We have descended from our forebears, not ascended from some ape-hybrid.
A: Devolving?!?

Q: (L) Okay, he further writes: ‘Seems that there were indeed many civilizations that were on the planet with far superior inner resources to which we compare as grade school kids...
A: You are jumping ahead way too fast!

Q: (L) He writes...
A: No, no, no.

Q: (L) You don’t want me to continue this line?
A: We want to take one step at a time.

Q: (L) Well, this was what Bill said back to Mike...
A: No, no, no, no, no, no! You did not answer our question!!!! You just ignored it. How do you expect this discussion to progress?

Q: (L) Okay, your question was ‘devolving.’ I was talking about what he was saying. Are you saying that ‘devolving’ is not an accurate way of describing this process?
A: Of course not!!

Q: (L) So, devolving is not accurate. What would be an accurate way to describe man’s present state...
A: Devolving does not exist!

Q: (A) The question is, does Evolving exist?
A: No.

Q: (L) That’s not the question. Does evolving exist?
A: No.

Q: (L) So all just exists and IS, is that it?
A: Yes. All there is is lessons.

Q: (L) Well, we are talking about the obvious evidence for higher and more advanced civilizations of the past. My thought would be...
A: That is not devolving. If your great grandchildren wind up tossing spears, that is ‘evolution’ too.

Q: (L) So, it is the spiritual matters that count and not the technological state of the civilization?
A: Close.

Q: (L) So, a highly advanced civilization could be not as highly evolved, spiritually speaking, as a less advanced civilization in terms of spirit?
A: No matter what, it is still “evolution.”

Q: (L) Does it have to do with the fact that time is variable and selective, and all actually exists simultaneously?
A: Somewhat.

Q: (L) So, it is just cycles?
A: No, you are missing the point. There is no such thing as devolvement. All experiences are rich with lessons. Many in your realm need to move beyond this superiority/ inferiority kick.

Anyway, I don’t know if this hypothesis is ultimately on the right track or not, but please feel free to offer evidence or counter-evidence to it, and to otherwise generally discuss.
 
session950924 said:
Q: (L) They said it was the Orions. Are the Orions these secondary creators? (RC) Well, I read that it was the Pleiadians. And the Hebrews were originally the Hoovids who came from Sirius...
A: Here comes a shocker for you... one day, in 4th density, it will be your descendants mission to carry on the tradition and assignment of seeding the 3rd density universe, once you have the adequate knowledge!!!
I often quote this session because I think it is the lynchpin in understanding these sorts of things. Overall, I think your hypothesis makes a lot of accurate points, however I believe the perspective can be broadened a bit. So going through it point by point, here are my thoughts.
Shijing said:
The basic idea is that physically, species are intelligently designed and begin their stay in our realm at the level of 3rd Density.
They are intelligently designed but can begin their stay on any density 1-4. Any remotely terrestrial environment that is capable of supporting regular mundane carbon based life needs a living system to maintain it. This means that a certain number of lizards, birds, plants, etc are necessary for 3D life to exist. Esoterically speaking, certain groups of beings learn their lessons together as an "ensemble" and you need some variation of this ensemble to create good music, i.e. potentials for harmonious evolution of souls. Within that ensemble, it is possible to change places, to play easier or more difficult "instruments," which gets us to your next point.
Shijing said:
Over the span of, say, a Grand Cycle, members of a species have the opportunity to evolve their Being to a point where they can cross into 4th Density, and in doing so will take an imprint of their physical form. Failing this, their physical form will devolve into a lower form of life (an animal) as defined by the atrophy and eventual loss of the intellectual center and the increasing specialized adaptation to some environmental niche.
I believe that this certainly occurs, however most often what happens is that a species reaches a certain level and then stagnates. Some beings graduate and others are "soul-smashed." Most get stuck in 3D. Furthermore, I think the universe arranges tests for various species to see if they are fit to pass to the next threshold of evolution. If the species fails it goes extinct or changes form; some of the souls may go to a comparable species with a different configuration. (i.e. 3D mammal to 3D amphibian) Oftentimes what is viewed as a catastrophic collapse or devolution from a materialist standpoint may simply be the process of one group of souls moving on to bigger and better things while a new group comes in.
Shijing said:
This process may iterate again (this time with the loss of the emotional center and increasing specialized adaptation to the environment) until the species is only compatible with 1st Density souls.
Sure, it is certainly possible that the experiment can fail completely, at which point the designers may intervene and reconstitute it via some direct intervention.
Shijing said:
Predicts that a phylogenetic tree of terrestrial species yields the hierarchy of 4D: the relative age of 4D species (and their place in the pecking order) will appear in the same sequence as those of 3D. For example, Linda Moulton Howe has worked with subjects who claim that mantis beings seem particularly ancient; according to David Jacobs, these outrank reptilians, who are generally their subordinates. This is in general agreement with the mainstream assertion that insects preceded reptiles on Earth.
I do not necessarily agree with this, I believe this assumption suffers from a bit of terracentrism. Such beings came to our planet from the galaxy, not the other way around, so what is true on this planet may not necessarily hold true for realms above ours in the ontological hierarchy. Furthermore, some sources suggest that the Nordics are in charge of the Reptoids and the Minturians, so this would be a bit of a counterexample using Earth as the template. Casteneda spoke of different worlds or spectrum colors that were visible by shifting one's assemblage point, and he allegedly transitioned into one of these different colors when he went off the cliff into the gorge. I think these are what people colloquially refer to as alternate dimensions. So my hypothesis is that each planet has these spectrum dimensions surrounding it which is invisible to our narrow perception. Certain crypto beings such as the Chupacabras are more or less terrestrial, they exist on Earth, but in a parallel realm. Based on my reading of the evidence, Reptoids et al not only exist in a different spectrum dimension, but are higher density and extraterrestrial as well. Now as we touched on earlier, there should be a certain underlying similarity between all planets seeded by a particular group, but Earth may not be the best yardstick to measure all of it against. I believe that reptiles, insects, etc are something conceived in the 6D realm of universal archetypes, and whether those forms manifest in 2D, 3D, or 4D, depends on the essence of the consciousness which participates in a given planetary environment and what principles it is aligned with.
Shijing said:
Is friendly to the idea of intelligent design, since forward evolution (and the origin of life in simple form) is no longer required.
True, but you do get into the problem of who designed the designer, except somewhat in reverse. What happens when all of the life devolves? How did this omnipotent designer appear in the first place? Isn't the designer losing energy by this devolution process, meaning that all of existence is hurtling toward some total and intractable end? I think you do sidestep this by incorporating metaphysical ideas about there being no time and no space, just a field of consciousness behind everything that cycles from high to low and low to high back to itself in the plane of eternity.
Shijing said:
• May explain some fossil anomalies and OOPAs.
• Suggests that OPs can be an upward bridge for consciousness but a downward bridge for physicality.
• Motivates the cycle of death and reincarnation, since soul evolution and physical devolution run in opposite directions; it also forces the idea of larger cycles which involve the introduction of new 3D lifeforms as older forms devolve.
• Predicts that new 3D life forms will be different than what has occurred up to present, yet will follow a certain trajectory of modification based on the strengths, weaknesses, and general performance of previous ‘models’.
• Predicts the gradual atrophy and then loss of centers – first intellectual, then emotional, and finally moving. Conversely, it may imply the normalization of higher centers in 4D.
• Since 5D exists outside of time, reincarnation isn’t limited to our linear time sequence and can therefore target points in the future for lower learning and points in the past for higher learning. The prediction would be that within some cycle, these may often be mirror images of each other.
Pretty much agree with all of this.
Shijing said:
• Explains the observation by Elaine Morgan that human bodies are uniquely unspecialized in relation to their environment (and in certain ways poorly adapted), whereas animals are more specialized with adaptations allowing them to thrive in one ecological niche or another: claws for digging, flippers for swimming, fur for warmth, etc.
I have two reasons for this, 1) humans were imported from another planet and 2) humanity has been genetically engineered by the designer to fulfill a certain function i.e. food with perhaps an element of slave labor, therefore they are at a severe disadvantage in being able to evolve into more than a subsistence race that barely survives; undergoing brief explosions where that threshold might be able to be crossed before the whole thing collapses and starts over. If some of the accounts of Golden Age abilities are true, humanity was able to fly through the air, levitate heavy stones, and provide for certain needs by mere thought alone, among other things. My contention is that the human adaptation to its environment was more of a psychic one, where the physical components that you mention were unnecessary. The Cassiopaeans have been intimating that the loss of these abilities is due to corruption of the DNA, which was instigated by 4D STS. Such abilities would obviously make humanity impossible to control and needed to be dealt with. Lastly, the human form originated on some other planet and was probably adapted to whatever that environment was, and while the psychic abilities may have made the form highly adaptable, there would still be some incongruencies when transplanted to another environment.
Shijing said:
May explain one-celled organisms, or even Wilhelm Reich’s bions, as the last stage in a process of devolution.
Or the first stage in evolution, it can go both ways. Spirit creates matter which can return to spirit, which direction it is going just depends on which slice of the cycle you're fixated on at a given time.
Shijing said:
If this hypothesis is on the right track, an open question would be whether it is mirrored at larger scales, for example in the case of celestial bodies. One of the most serious challenges is the lack of evidence for advanced forms preceding devolved forms in the fossil record – there are likely other problems which confront it as well.
That's because devolution is only one half of the equation like STO can't exist without STS. The overriding push seems to be towards complexity, the living system exists to counteract the tendency towards entropy which govern the "natural laws" of the universe. However, during cataclysmic periods, devolution can become dominant for awhile as the living system retreats temporarily and changes direction.

As for the ape question, I'm thinking Gurdjieff's teachers were a little confused about it. Here's what the Cassiopaeans had to say about it:
Session941023 said:
Q: (L) Let's go back to the three forces. You said numerous souls desired physical existence. When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence come to be?
A: First was apelike.
Q: (L) And then what happened? Did these apelike being just pop into the air? What did the souls do with these apelike beings?
A: Souls altered them by transfer.
Q: (L) Transfer of what?
A: Souls into seeded bodies. Orion Union was first into Neanderthal.
Q: (L) The Orion souls came into Neanderthal bodies?
A: No. Put humans there for incubation process.
Q: (L) Were altered ape embryos put back into ape females for gestation?
A: No. Souls only.
Q: (L) They put the souls into the ape bodies?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Did the soul's presence in the ape body cause its genetics and DNA to change?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) They entered into living creatures on this planet to experience 3 d reality and by entering in caused mutation?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Then were altered by Orion Union first.
A: They resemble you.
Q: (L) Who resembles us?
A: The Orions.
Q: (L) We haven't talked too much about the Orions...
A: Orion Union. There are others in Orion Community.
Q: (L) Are some of the Orions not good guys as we would term it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Are some of them good guys?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, you are saying that the original creators or genetic engineers were Orions?
A: Close. The original engineers but not inhabitants.
So there would appear to be some truth to the ape to man theory, although it looks like it was only possible with significant help from the designers, which is why there are irregularities in the fossil record. Also, the way this was done cannot really be studied by science as we know it, it would require expanding our methods of inquiry into an entirely new paradigm. The designers appear to even have some influence over which bodies the souls incarnate into, which is an interesting question in itself, but irrelevant to the main discussion. Assuming the Atlantean timeline as given by the Cassiopaeans is correct, Atlantis had its beginnings 100k-150k years ago, and I don't think women having sex with animals to create monkeys is consistent with the fossil record. There are tales that minotaurs and chimeras of various sorts were genetically engineered in Atlantean labs for sexual gratification, so perhaps that is the history that Gurdjieff's teachers were trying to preserve when he discovered it, and the mists of time led to confabulations about it.

So overall not a bad exercise in trying to support the more far out claims from the transcripts with available evidence, but I'm afraid you would need access to the Quorum library in order to be able to prove much of it.
 
Thanks Neil for your thoughtful response, and I appreciate you taking a critical look at this. Comments on your comments follow:

Neil said:
They are intelligently designed but can begin their stay on any density 1-4. Any remotely terrestrial environment that is capable of supporting regular mundane carbon based life needs a living system to maintain it. This means that a certain number of lizards, birds, plants, etc are necessary for 3D life to exist. Esoterically speaking, certain groups of beings learn their lessons together as an "ensemble" and you need some variation of this ensemble to create good music, i.e. potentials for harmonious evolution of souls. Within that ensemble, it is possible to change places, to play easier or more difficult "instruments," which gets us to your next point.

I think that’s a good point, and it highlights a chicken-egg conundrum which I consider to be the biggest potential problem for a strong version of the hypothesis (one which demands that all physical life without exception conform to the hypothesis). The more familiar model of evolution doesn’t encounter that problem, and neither does a weak version of the devolution hypothesis which posits devolution as one possible trajectory for life but not as a necessity.

One question might then be whether there is a subset of lower organisms, which don’t originate as higher beings, that function as strata of the biosphere and which are necessary for the survival of higher beings. (I should also clarify that my use of ‘higher’ and ‘lower’ in this discussion is related specifically to the number of centers which a physical body is capable of housing, in either potential or actualized form). Plants, for example, might be a good candidate for this, but then the 2016 session in which Dyatlov Pass was discussed indicates that vegetation is not necessarily constrained in such a way. So one could ask, do the plant beings referred to in that session physically occupy an earlier point in the devolutionary cycle or a later point in the evolutionary cycle?

Neil said:
I believe that this certainly occurs, however most often what happens is that a species reaches a certain level and then stagnates. Some beings graduate and others are "soul-smashed." Most get stuck in 3D. Furthermore, I think the universe arranges tests for various species to see if they are fit to pass to the next threshold of evolution. If the species fails it goes extinct or changes form; some of the souls may go to a comparable species with a different configuration. (i.e. 3D mammal to 3D amphibian) Oftentimes what is viewed as a catastrophic collapse or devolution from a materialist standpoint may simply be the process of one group of souls moving on to bigger and better things while a new group comes in.

So here, I want to try to draw a firm distinction between what happens to a species physically and what happens to the soul (or soul group) which indwells the members of that species. I don’t see any particular problem with the above (some of it is assumption, strictly speaking, but that’s difficult to do without entirely when discussing this kind of topic). “Soul-smashing’, for example, seems to me to be a process that applies to souls (by definition) and not to the physical vessel, although there can be secondary effects on the physical vessel due to the symbiotic nature of the two.

Regarding the tests you mention that the Universe arranges, I think the idea makes pragmatic sense. But it can be seen from two different perspectives: passing these tests can win the privilege of evolving, or it can win the privilege not to devolve. Stagnation can theoretically occur in either direction.

Neil said:
I do not necessarily agree with this, I believe this assumption suffers from a bit of terracentrism. Such beings came to our planet from the galaxy, not the other way around, so what is true on this planet may not necessarily hold true for realms above ours in the ontological hierarchy. Furthermore, some sources suggest that the Nordics are in charge of the Reptoids and the Minturians, so this would be a bit of a counterexample using Earth as the template. Casteneda spoke of different worlds or spectrum colors that were visible by shifting one's assemblage point, and he allegedly transitioned into one of these different colors when he went off the cliff into the gorge. I think these are what people colloquially refer to as alternate dimensions. So my hypothesis is that each planet has these spectrum dimensions surrounding it which is invisible to our narrow perception. Certain crypto beings such as the Chupacabras are more or less terrestrial, they exist on Earth, but in a parallel realm. Based on my reading of the evidence, Reptoids et al not only exist in a different spectrum dimension, but are higher density and extraterrestrial as well. Now as we touched on earlier, there should be a certain underlying similarity between all planets seeded by a particular group, but Earth may not be the best yardstick to measure all of it against. I believe that reptiles, insects, etc are something conceived in the 6D realm of universal archetypes, and whether those forms manifest in 2D, 3D, or 4D, depends on the essence of the consciousness which participates in a given planetary environment and what principles it is aligned with.

I think the apparent terracentric bias may have partly to do with how I worded the excerpt that you quote above. One might suggest that species design has occurred broadly, over a vast region of space. This would predict that if one were somehow able to examine the phylogenetic sequence of life forms of other inhabited planets, it would be roughly comparable to that of Earth. There would not be perfect agreement in the physical record because once seeded, there could and would be different outcomes in terms of survivability and progress (or lack thereof) in each individual case.

Now, if it were true that the Nordics dominated the mantids and reptilians in the 4D STS hierarchy, you’re correct that this would pose a serious problem – and that very well may be the case. The Cs state at various points that the Nordics are at the top of the hierarchy, that they are our ancestors, that they are humanoid, and that they are physiologically identical with us with the exception of a larger cranium. That of course begs the question of how 4D physiology can be nearly identical with 3D physiology.

The best explanation I know that could remove that discrepancy is the suggestion that the Nordic form is a screen for a nonhuman form, and is adopted temporarily in interactions with abductees and contactees to facilitate their plans, since people will naturally be more receptive to beings that are similar in appearance as opposed to insectoid or reptilian.

As to whether essence and polarity correspond strictly to form, that’s another good question. The Cs stated on one occasion that the Nordics are split 50/50 between ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’, by which I infer an STO/STS distinction is implied. If this is accurate, then it would argue against that in at least some cases.

Neil said:
True, but you do get into the problem of who designed the designer, except somewhat in reverse. What happens when all of the life devolves? How did this omnipotent designer appear in the first place? Isn't the designer losing energy by this devolution process, meaning that all of existence is hurtling toward some total and intractable end? I think you do sidestep this by incorporating metaphysical ideas about there being no time and no space, just a field of consciousness behind everything that cycles from high to low and low to high back to itself in the plane of eternity.

To answer your questions in order: when a certain percentage of physical life devolves, new forms would be introduced to maintain the cycle; being cyclical, all of life would never devolve. The designer would exist outside of the 1D-4D system, although 4D denizens may be able to engineer and modify what is already there. Where the designer comes from is a good question, but probably outside the scope of the hypothesis (although I refer back to what you mentioned earlier about the 6D realm of archetypes). I don’t think it’s necessary to assume that the designer is losing energy through the devolution process. That would only be a problem in a closed system, but if the designer is outside the system they presumably have additional (and possibly limitless) resources upon which to draw. And a cyclical process would not imply that everything was hurtling toward a total and intractable end, although there may be ebbs and flows in the ways that energy and information are organized at any point in the cycle.

Perhaps invoking a conscious creative agent outside of the 1D-4D system does sidestep the question, but I’m not sure that it’s disallowed in a logical sense. 4D is supposed to be the upper bound of physicality, and the physical plane embedded within a greater energetic and informational world which includes 5D-7D. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood you on that, though.

Neil said:
I have two reasons for this, 1) humans were imported from another planet and 2) humanity has been genetically engineered by the designer to fulfill a certain function i.e. food with perhaps an element of slave labor, therefore they are at a severe disadvantage in being able to evolve into more than a subsistence race that barely survives; undergoing brief explosions where that threshold might be able to be crossed before the whole thing collapses and starts over. If some of the accounts of Golden Age abilities are true, humanity was able to fly through the air, levitate heavy stones, and provide for certain needs by mere thought alone, among other things. My contention is that the human adaptation to its environment was more of a psychic one, where the physical components that you mention were unnecessary. The Cassiopaeans have been intimating that the loss of these abilities is due to corruption of the DNA, which was instigated by 4D STS. Such abilities would obviously make humanity impossible to control and needed to be dealt with. Lastly, the human form originated on some other planet and was probably adapted to whatever that environment was, and while the psychic abilities may have made the form highly adaptable, there would still be some incongruencies when transplanted to another environment.

I think I agree with most of the above, with the caveat that it may be important to draw a distinction between engineer and creator. In my present understanding, 3D humanity was engineered by 4D, but they aren’t necessarily our ultimate creators in my present understanding.

What I think you’re referring to in your last sentence (correct me if I’m wrong) are humans originating on Kantek (and in my understanding this was not all of them, just a subset – the Cs have never really been asked to clarify the entire history of the human race, including planetary homes, from beginning to end). So it’s entirely possible that the Kantekkian population was adapted to life on a different, larger planet which may have been more aquatic among other things. But I’m speaking more broadly in terms of design function when I mention Elaine Morgan (she discusses this primarily in either Descent of the Child or Scars of Evolution, I unfortunately don’t remember which). She has a nice discussion about how humans are really poorly adapted to the Earth environment in general (when compared to animals), which I think could be extended to any other planet.

Neil said:
Or the first stage in evolution, it can go both ways. Spirit creates matter which can return to spirit, which direction it is going just depends on which slice of the cycle you're fixated on at a given time.

That’s part of what I’m trying to suss out – does it go generally in one direction more than another, or can both occur (as in a weak version of the hypothesis which allows for both evolution and devolution).

Neil said:
That's because devolution is only one half of the equation like STO can't exist without STS. The overriding push seems to be towards complexity, the living system exists to counteract the tendency towards entropy which govern the "natural laws" of the universe. However, during cataclysmic periods, devolution can become dominant for awhile as the living system retreats temporarily and changes direction.

Also what I’m trying to suss out. What you’re referring to is a cornerstone argument in The 5th Option. It may well be exactly correct. Or it may not – perhaps there are competing forces which maintain complexity within certain parameters but push toward simplification within others. If accurate, this would be a physical system phenomenon, and not necessarily one that applies to souls (also possible, but a separate question).

Neil said:
As for the ape question, I'm thinking Gurdjieff's teachers were a little confused about it [...] Here's what the Cassiopaeans had to say about it:So there would appear to be some truth to the ape to man theory, although it looks like it was only possible with significant help from the designers, which is why there are irregularities in the fossil record. Also, the way this was done cannot really be studied by science as we know it, it would require expanding our methods of inquiry into an entirely new paradigm. The designers appear to even have some influence over which bodies the souls incarnate into, which is an interesting question in itself, but irrelevant to the main discussion. Assuming the Atlantean timeline as given by the Cassiopaeans is correct, Atlantis had its beginnings 100k-150k years ago, and I don't think women having sex with animals to create monkeys is consistent with the fossil record. There are tales that minotaurs and chimeras of various sorts were genetically engineered in Atlantean labs for sexual gratification, so perhaps that is the history that Gurdjieff's teachers were trying to preserve when he discovered it, and the mists of time led to confabulations about it.

I tend to agree with you regarding your assessment of Gurdjieff’s explanation and the possible Atlantean explanation of it. I think many people will find that more palatable than taking his explanation at face value :P

Regarding the apelike beings in the excerpt above, it would be good to have more information about them. One’s first impulse is to assume they were the result of evolution (which may be true) but their actual origin is not ultimately described by the Cs.

Neil said:
So overall not a bad exercise in trying to support the more far out claims from the transcripts with available evidence, but I'm afraid you would need access to the Quorum library in order to be able to prove much of it.

Very true – for now, I’m looking for any little details that could plausibly swing the probability of either hypothesis one way or another. What you’ve written above helps with that, so thanks for putting the time in to evaluate my initial proposal, I appreciate it. Feel free to comment more on any of the above.
 
It sounds to me like the separation of the sexes after the Atlantis cataclysm could have been conflated from the idea of the separation of the left/right brain modes of thinking, as Laura describes in many of her books.
 
monotonic said:
It sounds to me like the separation of the sexes after the Atlantis cataclysm could have been conflated from the idea of the separation of the left/right brain modes of thinking, as Laura describes in many of her books.

That hadn't occurred to me, but it's an interesting connection, monotonic.
 
Shijing said:
One question might then be whether there is a subset of lower organisms, which don’t originate as higher beings, that function as strata of the biosphere and which are necessary for the survival of higher beings. (I should also clarify that my use of ‘higher’ and ‘lower’ in this discussion is related specifically to the number of centers which a physical body is capable of housing, in either potential or actualized form). Plants, for example, might be a good candidate for this, but then the 2016 session in which Dyatlov Pass was discussed indicates that vegetation is not necessarily constrained in such a way.
It could be either/or, I don't see where it has to be one way or another. Considering the interplay between chaos and creation that is observable on our planet, I'm convinced that it's actually both/and.

One example I can think of is the terraforming of Mars, which is discussed much in space science circles. Since it has been demonstrated the planet has substantial reserves of subterranean water, all it really needs to become habitable is a thicker atmosphere and a stronger magnetic field. The atmosphere could be thickened by moving industries to the planet which produce methane gas, the water could be pumped to the surface, where it would sublimate, increasing the greenhouse effect. Then efforts could be made to melt the icecaps, which contain enough water to cover the entire planet with 40 feet of water. Adding all of that water to the atmosphere would create a heat blanket that causes temperatures to steadily rise. All of this could theoretically be done with regular 3D technology. The hardest part would be stimulating the planet's core so that it makes a stronger magnetic field, preventing the atmosphere from being stripped by the solar wind. Since Mars supported liquid water in the past, you should be able to warm it enough for it to exist again, at least in the equatorial regions. At that point, you could offer free land to colonists and create farms where the hardiest plants from Earth are transplanted to begin reconstructing the planet's biosphere. So you would have to take a whole group of organisms to create an artificial ecosystem with the ultimate goal of making it a self-perpetuating "clone" of Earth. The different environment would cause earth plants to adapt in order to be more efficient, maybe they would have darker leaves or something, being farther from the sun. Cows might become taller and skinnier due to the lower gravity. That's stereotypical evolution. In this case, the designers were humans, and they simply brought a whole bunch of things with them to create a new planet. You could validly argue that devolution plays a role here as well. Perhaps the humans devolved from a more hyperdimensional race, and although they evolved a new living system, it was not as complex as their original one. Furthermore, some species imported from Earth, especially in the early days, may revert back to simpler forms due to scarcity of oxygen in the atmosphere. However, once life takes hold, it seems to find ways to adapt and then begins to support more and more complex forms which have a mind of their own. Intelligence is adaptive, and while it can be "assisted" in various ways, it seems to be the desired product of biological ecosystems. In the far future, the cavemen inhabiting Mars discuss the "sky gods" who came down and created the world. Even further in the future, their scientists begin to suspect that some intelligence assisted their evolution and rebuilt their world after some kind of cataclysm due to inconsistencies in the fossil record.

That's a much simplified 3D view of how things can happen, it doesn't take into account the metaphysical realities that take place behind the scenes, but I think the same basic concept applies to any life bearing planet. I don't think humanity has the responsibility or a sufficiently large economy to undertake such a project, but the subjects of world creation and world maintenance are probably the equivalent of biology 101 for 4D beings who undertake the tradition of seeding worlds.
Shijing said:
So one could ask, do the plant beings referred to in that session physically occupy an earlier point in the devolutionary cycle or a later point in the evolutionary cycle?
Well they would seem to be an evolution from the plants that we are familiar with, but without knowing their history, it's hard to say which direction they are going. They could have just as easily devolved from a higher plane, or they could be an entirely artificial construction of another race.
Shijing said:
So here, I want to try to draw a firm distinction between what happens to a species physically and what happens to the soul (or soul group) which indwells the members of that species. I don’t see any particular problem with the above (some of it is assumption, strictly speaking, but that’s difficult to do without entirely when discussing this kind of topic). “Soul-smashing’, for example, seems to me to be a process that applies to souls (by definition) and not to the physical vessel, although there can be secondary effects on the physical vessel due to the symbiotic nature of the two.
Ok, I think they are intertwined, and evolution or devolution can occur. Evolution does appear to be favored, based on the fossil record, but conditions can occur where devolution can become dominant. I think devolution is largely a product of an intelligence that chooses not to evolve at some level, and this process can begin on 4D or 3D.
Shijing said:
I think the apparent terracentric bias may have partly to do with how I worded the excerpt that you quote above. One might suggest that species design has occurred broadly, over a vast region of space. This would predict that if one were somehow able to examine the phylogenetic sequence of life forms of other inhabited planets, it would be roughly comparable to that of Earth. There would not be perfect agreement in the physical record because once seeded, there could and would be different outcomes in terms of survivability and progress (or lack thereof) in each individual case.

Now, if it were true that the Nordics dominated the mantids and reptilians in the 4D STS hierarchy, you’re correct that this would pose a serious problem – and that very well may be the case. The Cs state at various points that the Nordics are at the top of the hierarchy, that they are our ancestors, that they are humanoid, and that they are physiologically identical with us with the exception of a larger cranium. That of course begs the question of how 4D physiology can be nearly identical with 3D physiology.
I agree that as a general rule, the "older" a particular race is, the more prominent it will be in the biosphere and the more clout it will have in the galactic community, although establishing age can be tricky when dealing with 4D realities. Exceptions can occur however. Taking our planet in microcosm, we can compare the situation of China and the US. China is the oldest nation in the world, and up until the 1600s was the most advanced with the largest economy. Roughly 1/4 of the world population is of Chinese descent. Then it was decimated by Europe and then completely supplanted by the US, a very young nation, at least temporarily. So it is possible for a given species to "take off" and supplant its more evolved neighbors, I think.
Shijing said:
As to whether essence and polarity correspond strictly to form, that’s another good question. The Cs stated on one occasion that the Nordics are split 50/50 between ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’, by which I infer an STO/STS distinction is implied. If this is accurate, then it would argue against that in at least some cases.
Hmm...good catch. It does reveal a potential fallacy in my reasoning. Since these beings are at the top of the hierarchy, they must be absorbing a lot of energy and are able to mask their essence, beyond just being able to project a screen. Perhaps they have a vain obsession about glamor similar to some of our celebrities.
Shijing said:
Perhaps invoking a conscious creative agent outside of the 1D-4D system does sidestep the question, but I’m not sure that it’s disallowed in a logical sense. 4D is supposed to be the upper bound of physicality, and the physical plane embedded within a greater energetic and informational world which includes 5D-7D. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood you on that, though.
Actually, my point was that you have to invoke this external consciousness in order for the whole thing to work. You'll never be able to get around the chicken and the egg problem relying on linear reasoning or just the physical universe alone. It's just something that science will have a hard time accepting.
Shijing said:
I think I agree with most of the above, with the caveat that it may be important to draw a distinction between engineer and creator. In my present understanding, 3D humanity was engineered by 4D, but they aren’t necessarily our ultimate creators in my present understanding.
Agreed, when using the term designer, I was referring to 4D STS, except when I was talking about the consciousness outside of the physical universe, and I did not specify my terminology. Yes, based on the Cassiopaeans, Orion Union would be tertiary or quaternary creators. It looks like Prime Creator/DCM created the Transient Passengers, who are the ones who actualized the appearance of humanoids into the physical universe through some kind of thought wave manifestation. Some time later, it appears that these humanoids created a lesser humanoid and we were a creature in their garden which was being cultivated. At some point the "Fall" occurred, and we were taken over by the STS Orion group and reengineered into a commodity to be exploited. Now humanity is trying to create artificially intelligent robots for slave labor. So in this particular slice of this particular block of "time" the devolutionary impulse has been dominant, although I don't think it is by any means the only thing going on, there is a countervailing force, which might be what Gurdjieff called the Law of Exception. As far as life on planet Earth is concerned at the moment, this Orion collective is god, but they aren't the ultimate God of the universe.
Shijing said:
What I think you’re referring to in your last sentence (correct me if I’m wrong) are humans originating on Kantek (and in my understanding this was not all of them, just a subset – the Cs have never really been asked to clarify the entire history of the human race, including planetary homes, from beginning to end). So it’s entirely possible that the Kantekkian population was adapted to life on a different, larger planet which may have been more aquatic among other things. But I’m speaking more broadly in terms of design function when I mention Elaine Morgan (she discusses this primarily in either Descent of the Child or Scars of Evolution, I unfortunately don’t remember which). She has a nice discussion about how humans are really poorly adapted to the Earth environment in general (when compared to animals), which I think could be extended to any other planet.
There are also two other planets of concern besides Kantek, D'ankhiar and Orion. Orion is described by the Cassiopaeans as being "Earth-like" and D'ankhiar is described as the "mother planet." Supposedly there is a lab there where our race is being created and then will be taken back in time and planted in our solar system. As I said, I think humanoid primary adaptive function is intelligence combined with deep psychic ability, which was pared down as 4D STS "commercialized" our genome. However different planetary environments certainly could explain some of it, I'm trying to picture what Earth would've been like with the water vapor canopy, it almost seems like it was a different planet. According to the Cassiopaeans, humanity was much more adapted to that environment and had much longer lives.
Shijing said:
Also what I’m trying to suss out. What you’re referring to is a cornerstone argument in The 5th Option. It may well be exactly correct. Or it may not – perhaps there are competing forces which maintain complexity within certain parameters but push toward simplification within others. If accurate, this would be a physical system phenomenon, and not necessarily one that applies to souls (also possible, but a separate question).
Yes, what I'm proposing is an expanded version of his Rational Design hypothesis with a more prominent place for devolution as well as incorporating some of the data from ufology and Cassiopaean esotericism. Schiller's theory makes a lot of sense and dovetails nicely with the Cassiopaeans, except that he intentionally stops short of broadening his perspective to more fringe areas of human existence in a vain (in my opinion) attempt to make it more palatable to the scientific establishment. As far as the competing forces goes, I think if you were to look at purely the physical universe, then devolution must be a rigid law because we have already studied thermodynamics which tells us that all things must decay to a zero energy state. Even if temporary endothermic transactions occur, they are the exception and not the rule. But you won't be able to make long term accurate predictions with that. The souls, consciousness, is the other half of the equation, and they're always mucking around with the physical universe and creating new possibilities. They can go against thermodynamics or they can hasten devolution. In an infinite universe devolution might theoretically be able to proceed infinitely without problems, but I don't think that's how it works. The Sufis were big on all aspects of the physical universe being limited and ephemeral, even if it lasts a really long time, but the spiritual universe is infinite and eternal. A physical universe might have a limited lifespan, what the Hindus described as the life of Brahma, which is hundreds of trillions of years over which it devolves and dies. Then Krishna (spiritual universe) dreams up new universes into which the souls can move into. Here you are going into the realms that the Cassiopaeans reference when they say there's no such thing as evolution, just lessons. The creation and destruction of the totality of physical existence is just part of the dreams of spirits. So at a certain level, in a certain sense, the Devolution Hypothesis could prove very accurate, but I think it's focus is too narrow to see the big picture. Similarly, I subscribe to the Rational Design Hypothesis, but Schiller did not have a wide enough view of things to really explain the big picture. So we could call the big picture Rational Design+, and there are various subsystems which can be explained by the Devolution Hypothesis, assuming a certain set of conditions.
Monotonic said:
It sounds to me like the separation of the sexes after the Atlantis cataclysm could have been conflated from the idea of the separation of the left/right brain modes of thinking, as Laura describes in many of her books.
Yeah could be, although I'm pretty sure this happened long before Atlantis, when the "Fall" happened and the super ancient civilization some refer to as "Hyperborea" collapsed. It would seem this civilization was not even on Earth and existed in a completely different realm/dimension. When you go that far back there's no telling what the actual details were.
 
Neil said:
I don't think humanity has the responsibility or a sufficiently large economy to undertake such a project, but the subjects of world creation and world maintenance are probably the equivalent of biology 101 for 4D beings who undertake the tradition of seeding worlds.

Very possibly – and speaking of which, ‘seeding’ is a frustratingly ambiguous term, because it could mean many things. Seeding with one-celled organisms? Seeding with fully developed beings which were created and/or engineered somewhere else? I assume at least the latter in the Cassiopaean mythology since that’s what the Cs seem to describe. And is there something in this for the planets themselves that get seeded, or are they indifferent to the whole process? That’s of course assuming some kind of planetary sentience, which is also an open question.

Neil said:
Well they would seem to be an evolution from the plants that we are familiar with, but without knowing their history, it's hard to say which direction they are going. They could have just as easily devolved from a higher plane, or they could be an entirely artificial construction of another race.

Agreed. That would be interesting to know more about as well, since these plant-based beings were one of the more unexpected and colorful groups that have been reported by the Cs.

Neil said:
Ok, I think they are intertwined, and evolution or devolution can occur. Evolution does appear to be favored, based on the fossil record, but conditions can occur where devolution can become dominant. I think devolution is largely a product of an intelligence that chooses not to evolve at some level, and this process can begin on 4D or 3D.

It’s an open question for now I suppose, but the fossil record poses a curious dilemma. It’s actually been held up by Intelligent Design proponents as a problem for Darwinian evolution due to the lack of indisputable transitional forms which provide unambiguous proof of speciation (macroevolution), but that problem cuts both ways. There is evidence for such things as whales with vestigial hind legs, which may be an example of increasing niche adaptation, but wouldn’t be strong proof for the directionality of (d)evolution. Earlier hominid fossils don’t completely clinch this either, IMO. The common assumption is that they provide evidence for evolution, but do they? I don’t think you could completely rule out that they could be devolved versions of earlier humanoids (but here’s where the fossil record – and the possible manipulation of it by scholars who want to promote a certain agenda as described by alternative scholars like Richard Cremo (who incidentally adheres to a similar idea) -- is problematic). A nice intermediate reptilian or insectoid fossil would of course provide strong confirmation for the devolution hypothesis, but the problem is probably that we’re looking at extreme time depths at which it would be very rare for anything to have been preserved.

Neil said:
I agree that as a general rule, the "older" a particular race is, the more prominent it will be in the biosphere and the more clout it will have in the galactic community, although establishing age can be tricky when dealing with 4D realities. Exceptions can occur however. Taking our planet in microcosm, we can compare the situation of China and the US. China is the oldest nation in the world, and up until the 1600s was the most advanced with the largest economy. Roughly 1/4 of the world population is of Chinese descent. Then it was decimated by Europe and then completely supplanted by the US, a very young nation, at least temporarily. So it is possible for a given species to "take off" and supplant its more evolved neighbors, I think.

True. My suggestion that 4D STS hierarchy mirrors 3D historical succession is predicated on an assumption, which is that whichever species makes it to 4D first will maintain precedence over more novel species who transition later, providing they are able to maintain their own kind for that long (reference what the Cs describe about the reptilians wishing to retain the viability of their own species). But that’s only based on the apparent correlation between the two for the reasons given in my initial post, and may either be incorrect or more finely nuanced than I’ve postulated.

Neil said:
Actually, my point was that you have to invoke this external consciousness in order for the whole thing to work. You'll never be able to get around the chicken and the egg problem relying on linear reasoning or just the physical universe alone. It's just something that science will have a hard time accepting.

That’s true – but probably the least of our problems, since mainstream science is hostile to even basic concepts like reincarnation and the independent existence of a soul apart from the body. I doubt that I’ll be trying to promote this idea in the scientific arena anytime soon, or ever, really. As an aside, that idea was partially inspired by some of the Seth material, in which Seth describes extensions of what he calls an oversoul being projected into various time periods as separate individual incarnations -- Jane Roberts expanded on this idea in a trilogy of her own novels.

Neil said:
There are also two other planets of concern besides Kantek, D'ankhiar and Orion. Orion is described by the Cassiopaeans as being "Earth-like" and D'ankhiar is described as the "mother planet." Supposedly there is a lab there where our race is being created and then will be taken back in time and planted in our solar system.

I’d better do a bit of clarification here. It’s my understanding that Orion refers to a large sector of space and not to a single planet (it’s supposed to include 3,444 inhabited worlds as of the mid-‘90s, including both natural and artificial bodies), and I’m not aware of the Cassiopaeans having ever described it as “Earth-like”. Did I miss something? My understanding is that our solar system is kind of in the sticks, so to speak, sort of the galactic equivalent of Tatooine; I get the impression that a lot more action happens in the Orion region itself.

I think we’re generally on the same page regarding D’ankhiar, though, which is supposed to be in Scorpio. In one session it was stated that humanoid prototypes were ‘evolved’ and souls were added, but elsewhere it was stated that they were ‘molecularized’. The latter might support the devolution hypothesis, indicating that humanoid species are created in a relatively abrupt manner all at once to a certain set of specifications, but the former is more ambiguous. After this, the different humanoid models get ‘planted’ in various parts of some planet in accord with the prevailing environmental conditions, or so I understand. Some clarification there would be welcome.

Neil said:
So we could call the big picture Rational Design+, and there are various subsystems which can be explained by the Devolution Hypothesis, assuming a certain set of conditions.

Perhaps so, and what I’m largely trying to do is examine those subsystems and see if we can deduce more explicitly what they are and how they work. I think the Hindus did retain a part of this knowledge of the bigger picture, albeit in corrupted form. I haven’t looked into what Zoroastrianism has to say about creation and cosmology (not for lack of interest, but lack of time), but it would be interesting to investigate that since it seems, based on Laura’s recent research, that it may have retained some core concepts in a less adulterated form than Hinduism did.
 
I suggest considering two terms: the metaevolutionary ladder, and involution (as opposed to devolution). I say metaevolution because there are theoretically endless pathways of development (many paths to the one goal), of permutational configurations in matter, consciousness and everything in between (example: critters like us).

So say you have Group A and Group B. Both groups share the same realm, and as such have before them the same set of lessons that can possibly be learned. Both groups are bound by their own common purpose, but they differ from one another in some aspect. Group A seeks matterization, and Group B seeks the opposite pathway, the way to Spirit. Now let's add a few variables.. Say there is a Group A1 and a Group A2. Group A1 seeks to "live life in the fullest" (hedonistically interpreted), that is to be fully enmeshed in experiences for the sake of experience. Group A2 seeks to "control", it has a more defined hierarchy of "disciples" and "masters" of varying degrees of hierarchical standing so that the "Art of Control" can be taught from the top. But this knowledge is passed down ever so slowly, and in minutely measured amounts, such that the power structure not only has a rigid hierarchy of well-defined "checkpoints" but that it may also maintain itself across generations. Groups A1 and A2 are seeking to learn different lessons, but share the same pathway. Let's assume that from both of these groups, there are "graduates" - people that have mastered the lessons in these respective groups. They'd end up in quite different environments, no? But it goes deeper than that. Let's say there are also multiple permutations of Group B - being mirror images of the set of Group A. And then also the possible permutations of 3d physical vehicles (a la Neil), similar permutations in the feasible range of 3d souls along any set of real benchmarks able to marry with any given set of 3d physical vehicles. Compared to Atlantis, we are neanderthals, technologically speaking. That's yet another benchmark to take into account (whether it makes any difference in the big picture [ie is real] I don't know).

I think it's pretty much this: we learn, so our assumptions of reality change - this leads to more/new lessons to be learned, which leads to more tweaking of assumptions, no matter how minute, effectively ad infinitum. I don't quite know how 5th density exactly ties into this, because I have no conscious recollection of it.
 
Shijing said:
Very possibly – and speaking of which, ‘seeding’ is a frustratingly ambiguous term, because it could mean many things. Seeding with one-celled organisms? Seeding with fully developed beings which were created and/or engineered somewhere else? I assume at least the latter in the Cassiopaean mythology since that’s what the Cs seem to describe. And is there something in this for the planets themselves that get seeded, or are they indifferent to the whole process? That’s of course assuming some kind of planetary sentience, which is also an open question.
I think the seeding could range from working with a completely barren moon-like world to moving an established species to a ready-made planet to complete its cycle, similar to what happened with Kantek. As for what the planets get out of it, I think it has to do with maintaining environments where the lessons of the cosmos can be learned. The planets are 1D, I think, and by developing an organic film that can transduce information from higher realities, you provide catalyst for this 1D matter to move to 2D, 3D, etc as well as a bridge for it to eventually become aware of the cosmic consciousness. 4D is kind of like the maintenance techs of the cosmic program. I can imagine how this process might be initiated from a 4D STO planet...

So you have a planet where the social memory complex has established itself and receives periodic guidance from 6D STO. The "elite" of this particular society are the ones who have the most clear transmission channel to 6D, they are oracles. The message is received by the oracles and then instantaneously distributed amongst the social memory complex because they are all bound together psychically in a nonhierarchical circular sociospiritual organization based on mutual reciprocity. The message has to do with advancing in one's understanding, and how to do this is by "putting one on the stairstep behind you." A soul group is ready to begin 3D and a planet is to be prepared for this purpose. So the society is suddenly motivated by this "divine impulse" to create new life and continue the cycle of creation. So the planet is found and the ecological conditions are set so that it will be nurturing yet challenging environment for this group, which has kind of become like your child. You create some kind of physical vehicle for this experience, but since you are dealing with spiritual children, some of its abilities are turned off so as to give the species time to mature as it grows into it's role as a responsible part of the cosmos. You don't want to be giving a gun to a toddler. These abilities are set to unlock after certain thresholds are reached, which are related to certain cycles of time, with the goal being that the species has the potential to rise to your level once the tests have been passed. So some sort of "enneagram analysis" is done to make sure that the physical sustenance required for the species' biological survival combined with the receptivity to cosmic impressions can be harmoniously synthesized in its three-story factory. Once the biological form is manifested, the experiment is left to run and the child is expected to learn it's lessons of growing up, albeit with occasional guidance. So everything is moving along and then a test occurs in the form of these lizard beings showing up preaching a radically different philosophy and cause generalized confusion all across the planet. Several outcomes are possible here, each leading to a different set of lessons; your creations may choose to align with you and resist occupation, they may "fall" temporarily and then rejoin you with a stronger and deeper understanding than before, or they may eventually join the STS collective. I think the goal is to get the created species to learn the lessons you yourself had to learn, and in this sense you both learn because now you are having to teach what you learned from a deeper level of understanding. How well did you learn the lessons of psychopathy, among other things?
Shijing said:
It’s an open question for now I suppose, but the fossil record poses a curious dilemma. It’s actually been held up by Intelligent Design proponents as a problem for Darwinian evolution due to the lack of indisputable transitional forms which provide unambiguous proof of speciation (macroevolution), but that problem cuts both ways. There is evidence for such things as whales with vestigial hind legs, which may be an example of increasing niche adaptation, but wouldn’t be strong proof for the directionality of (d)evolution. Earlier hominid fossils don’t completely clinch this either, IMO. The common assumption is that they provide evidence for evolution, but do they? I don’t think you could completely rule out that they could be devolved versions of earlier humanoids (but here’s where the fossil record – and the possible manipulation of it by scholars who want to promote a certain agenda as described by alternative scholars like Richard Cremo (who incidentally adheres to a similar idea) -- is problematic). A nice intermediate reptilian or insectoid fossil would of course provide strong confirmation for the devolution hypothesis, but the problem is probably that we’re looking at extreme time depths at which it would be very rare for anything to have been preserved.
What about punctuated evolution caused by interplanetary plagues or the mutagenic properties of an increased cosmic ray flux accompanying the pole shift process or other such possible infusions of cosmic information?
Shijing said:
I’d better do a bit of clarification here. It’s my understanding that Orion refers to a large sector of space and not to a single planet (it’s supposed to include 3,444 inhabited worlds as of the mid-‘90s, including both natural and artificial bodies), and I’m not aware of the Cassiopaeans having ever described it as “Earth-like”. Did I miss something? My understanding is that our solar system is kind of in the sticks, so to speak, sort of the galactic equivalent of Tatooine; I get the impression that a lot more action happens in the Orion region itself.
I thought there was some planet named Orion that was more or less the capital of humanoid civilization from which there was a great expansion. However, this is not what the Cassiopaeans actually said. It seems I mixed up my data streams and actually confused it with this discussion about Uzuli.
Session940730 said:
Q: (L) What do the Orions look like?
A: Grays.
Q: (L) Are they big nosed?
A: Both kinds of grays.
Q: (L) Are they insectoid?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they have hive souls?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they have emotions.
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they want human bodies as hosts?
A: Some.
Q: (L) What is their planet like.
A: Similar to earth.
Q: (L) What planet is it described in several books as a desert with huge spiders with legs like tree trunks?
A: Uzuli.
Q: (L) Has any of us ever been abducted by the giant spiders?
A: No one has.
Q: (L) Well why have people seen this planet?
A: It is one of the planets of ZR 4.
Q: (L) What is ZR 4?
A: Zeta Reticuli 4. There are seven planets. The 4th one.
As for Tatooine, I saw us as being more in the inner rim than the outer rim. According to the Cassiopaeans, the "center of civilization" in this galaxy seems to be centered around the Orion Arm, which our planet is in, and not the galactic core like in Star Wars. All of these star systems they talk about are pretty close by. We may not be in the core worlds, but I think we're pretty close, in my opinion. Not that distance really matters much in 4D, I think once a planet is charted, they're able to jump to it more or less instantaneously, due to their ability to manipulate time. Maybe the most advanced planets really are in the center, but they're only like meditation planets or something :lol:
6OPOYiFqzqopSpYmV0_stXVK24_kBHK82KKzXhXO-M_XOMiJAHMEXWcQzyyYtisfs67S=h900

In a nutshell, I think this evolution/devolution thing is pretty well summarized by Gurdjieff/Mouravieff description of the Law of 7, how things are set on a certain upward or downward spiraling path, and where choices are made in response to shocks(tests) which arrest or accelerate the trajectory in a given direction. I'd love to be able to take it out of the realm of abstraction and find a sort of "technospiritual" application to serve practical problems, kind of like science was originally supposed to do.
 
I think that in terms of "devolution" there needs to be a point of reference.

If a person suffers mental decline, such as when there is a mental or physical degenerative condition, the deterioration is in reference to the body, but there are many more dimensions and levels to a person's being that when determining devolution in one thing can well be interpreted as evolution in another. The person can be learning something at another level.


Say if everything on the planet came from the same microorganism , all the species we have today are extensions and expressions of evolution, thought forms or whatnot.
But there is not a starting point or an ending point so there is no evolution per see.

At present, what we perceive is life as it came, through these vehicles that preserve the characteristics necessary for specific experiences, maybe some millions of years humans may morph into something else, even then it will be the present for those occupying future human vessels.

As far as progress in the grand cycle, I think that the what is perceived as decline from people who fail to accept reality as it, is growing in the extension of service to the self, it is still growing.

As far as those who do not complete their lessons, i think it is a thought provoking idea that there is atrophy in terms of the centers which eventually lead the person to hinder the expression of the soul and therefore the life lessons at hand, which in turn causes the person to engage in old requirements for development, old mistakes, or full atrophy of the soul. However, there is the factor of the wave that is the breaking point for this event, I wouldn't know how the "repeating of the cycle" would take place or how the process is.


If a wandered comes here, and because circumstances, the person ends up forgetting the mission and earns karma along the way, the person will need to come back and resolve the karma that was acquired in this life, even if the person comes from a higher density, or at least that is my understanding.

Just some thoughts
 
Lamp of Orion said:
I suggest considering two terms: the metaevolutionary ladder, and involution (as opposed to devolution). I say metaevolution because there are theoretically endless pathways of development (many paths to the one goal), of permutational configurations in matter, consciousness and everything in between (example: critters like us).

It’s a useful suggestion, because it forces us to define our terms more exactly and ask how the beginning and ending points of such processes should really be conceptualized. This calls to mind, for example, Gurdjieff’s postulation that there are different numbers of laws which exist at different levels of creation. The total number of these laws seems to be correlated with Density -- the variable physicality of 4D, for example, could reflect the fact that 4D is subject to fewer laws than the lower densities which are subject to greater numbers of laws.

Perhaps what I am referring to in this thread as ‘devolution’ could be considered a subtype of involution. Here is a brief discussion of Gurdieff’s ideas on involution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involution_(esoterism)

Involution and evolution are important themes in the cosmology of G. I. Gurdjieff (1866? - 1949), addressed in detail in his book Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson.

In a popular presentation of Gurdjieff’s teaching by P. D. Ouspensky and others, different terminologies are often preferred: "ascending and descending octaves" (evolutionary and involutionary processes), "the Ray of Creation" (the full scale of involutionary processes), "emanation" (the initiation of involutionary processes at the prime source), etc.

Like Aurobindo and others, Gurdjieff uses the word involution in reference to a top-down flow in the universe contributing to the creation and maintenance of cosmoses. Gurdjieff’s main emphasis, however, was the mystery of how the descending flow of involution could change into the ascending flow of evolution. Exactly in this mystery, Gurdjieff looked for the significance of all living creatures, particularly man.

This search of Gurdjieff coincides with the scientists’ search since the late 19th century for any principle in the universe that may go against the domination of the Second Law of Thermodynamics formulated by Rudolf Julius Emmanuel Clausius. The law predicts the doom of the universe by affirming the irreversible increase of entropy (loss of creative potentials) in a closed system due to the inherent tendency of matters toward dispersion and equalization. Larger the system, more escapable it is from the sorrowful fate predicted by this Law.

Therefore, as far as the normal logics go, there appears to be no way to avoid the increase of entropy in this scientifically defined process of involution, which began to have a more realistic character as a theory when the big bang theory began to be affirmed by more scientists based on observed evidences. Thus, the esoteric theory of involution or the theory of everything arising from one began to be accepted by official science.

In this context, the role of time in the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a curious alone because the irreversible increase of entropy in the universe, as a principle that can be verified through daily observations, as something equivalent of the irreversibility of time, is an enough proof of the big bang theory. That is to say, since the increase of entropy in time is continuous and irreversible, one would arrive at the prime oneness if one could travel backward in time.

While a novel by Dan Brown depicts a Catholic priest who holds a romantic view about the big bang theory, taking it as an evidence of everything arising from one. Gurdjieff’s interpretation of the same fact was exactly the opposite. The finding of "everything arose from one” is not a blessed one if one is intelligent enough to think of what awaits in the future as a result of this: everything is moving away from one and in the process of dispersion into nothingness.

According to Gurdjieff, the prime force that emanates from the prime source continues to lose "vivifyingness" and become more "dense" in the process of involution as it contributes to creations of various kinds. By admitting this, Gurdjieff seems to affirm the domination of the Second Law of Dynamics not only in the physical domain but also in the spiritual domain. Gurdjieff, however, speaks also of evolution as a reverse flow back to the source. Gurdjieff seems to assert that all created beings have a seed of this urge to return to the source. Gurdjieff calls it "remorse", an urge to go back to the source and reblend into one.

According to Gurdjieff, the processes of involution and evolution are governed by the Law of Three and the Law of Seven. The Law of Three concerns the dynamic interactions among the forces of Affirming, Denying and Reconciling. Some similarities to this theory may be found in Indian philosophies and their interpretation by Aurobindo. The Law of Seven concerns certain irregularities in the development of processes or in the unfolding of events comparable with irregularities in musical octaves. Similarities to this insight are found in modern science such as irregularities or nonlinear ties in the development of various phenomena such as state transitions. According to Gurdjieff, it is thanks to such irregularities that the universe may escapes the sorrowful fate logically expected from the domination of merciless Heropass (a word Gurdjieff created to mean the Action of Time or the law of irreversible increase if entropy in time).

Gurdjieff warns against mechanical association of "good" and "bad" with the concepts of involution and evolution. Since involution is a flow from above, an inspiration, people tend to worship this flow as something sacred. However, as the negative connotation of the word “involution” suggests, mechanical obedience to this top-down flow, often in the name of religion, is nothing but degeneration. In this sense, Gurdjieff raised controversy by saying that his way was "against God". The top-down flow of involution fulfills its purpose only when it provokes in beings a reverse flow of evolution back to the prime source.

Gurdjieff, with his students, did real-life experiments around the question of how the top-down flow of involution could change into the bottom-up flow of evolution. The same search was shared later by some scientists, particularly those at the [Santa Fe institute], who also were intrigued by irregularities in the development of certain phenomena that appeared to come from complex interactions among different processes and laws. Their studies suggest that interactions among different processes and laws, particularly with the involvement of consciousness, may lead to the emergence of unexpected something that might defy the seemingly unavoidable detrimental action of time according to the second law of thermodynamics.

Gurdjieff experimented with collective living in a commune-like format and also with intricately designed group dances called the Movements. They provided a rare environment in which one may actually witness the miracle of an upward flow emerging from the work of consciousness in to a dynamic situation involving interactions among different qualities of forces.

With the advent of computers, scientists began to use a particular kind of simulation programs called "automatons" to represent how the complex interactions among individuals, the behaviors of each of whom are governed by relatively simple set of rules, may result in the “emergence” of unexpected patters at the group level, where "emergence" is a new concept signifying the true creativity for man as opposed to the traditional concept of creation by God. It is interesting to notice that many of the Movements created by Gurdjieff are programmed just like these “automaton” simulation codes. The only and quite a great difference seems to be that Gurdjieff employed real living human beings, instead of virtual creatures in computers, for his experiment.

If physical organisms are subjected to a long-term adaptive process after being ‘planted’ in some environment, then perhaps we could ask whether they are being subjected to an ever-expanding set of the laws postulated by Gurdjieff, and/or whether they are responding to antagonistic and competing forces which can be described by these laws.

A related concept might be the antagonistic relationship between grouping order and symmetry order discussed by Gevin Giorbran:

http://everythingforever.com/st_order3.htm

Perhaps distortions, in the sense discussed in the Ra Material, occur in a medium that is uniform and absolutely symmetrical to provide dissimilar objects (as the medium can be distorted in different ways and permutations) and with that the possibility of duality, or ‘otherness’. If so, one might postulate that a smaller number of Gurdjieffan laws are correlated with fewer distortions and greater symmetry order – conversely, a greater number of laws correlate with a more enriched inventory of distortions, and in turn with more sophisticated grouping order; this in turn may have something to do with speciation, which I’m predicting to be associated more closely with physical devolution than with evolution.

Neil said:
As for what the planets get out of it, I think it has to do with maintaining environments where the lessons of the cosmos can be learned. The planets are 1D, I think, and by developing an organic film that can transduce information from higher realities, you provide catalyst for this 1D matter to move to 2D, 3D, etc as well as a bridge for it to eventually become aware of the cosmic consciousness.

I agree that there certainly must be some significance to Gurdjieff’s assertion that organic life acts as an information transducer to the Earth – here’s one summary of that, which includes a discussion toward the top on what might be considered planetary biology and metabolism:

http://www.ardue.org.uk/university/system/lect39.html#purpose

Planets may all begin at 1D, that’s possible. The Cs state that the moon is 2D, Jupiter is 4D, and I think they imply that the Earth is presently 3D but then state that movement into 4D will cause it to appear as a gas giant. One question is, what does ‘Density’ mean exactly in terms of planets? If, for example, the moon is 2D, it doesn’t seem to mean that it supports 2D organisms, but rather seems to be a pronouncement on the level of development of the moon itself. So what would be 1D – a comet or an asteroid? And if a gas giant is 4D, what would a star be?

Neil said:
What about punctuated evolution caused by interplanetary plagues or the mutagenic properties of an increased cosmic ray flux accompanying the pole shift process or other such possible infusions of cosmic information?

I’m not sure I understand the question – can you restate it or elaborate more?

Neil said:
I thought there was some planet named Orion that was more or less the capital of humanoid civilization from which there was a great expansion. However, this is not what the Cassiopaeans actually said. It seems I mixed up my data streams and actually confused it with this discussion about Uzuli.

If the Uzuli information is accurate, perhaps these giant spiders are another example of an older 3D model that we only have the devolved versions of on Earth – similar to what Ouspensky hypothesizes for ants and termites. This also reminds me of the account that Laura gave of an interaction with giant spiders in her “eclipsing of realities” experience – I don’t know if that could be related in any way or not.

Neil said:
As for Tatooine, I saw us as being more in the inner rim than the outer rim. According to the Cassiopaeans, the "center of civilization" in this galaxy seems to be centered around the Orion Arm, which our planet is in, and not the galactic core like in Star Wars. All of these star systems they talk about are pretty close by. We may not be in the core worlds, but I think we're pretty close, in my opinion. Not that distance really matters much in 4D, I think once a planet is charted, they're able to jump to it more or less instantaneously, due to their ability to manipulate time. Maybe the most advanced planets really are in the center, but they're only like meditation planets or something :lol:

I’m not sure the center of the entire galactic civilization is necessarily the Orion arm – in my understanding, I think the most we can say is that it’s the hub in our particular part of the galaxy. It may be the center of a civilization, of which there could be multiple examples throughout the rest of the Milky Way. In other words, if one makes an analogy between the Milky Way and Earth, the Orion civilization may be equivalent of one country. But I like the idea of meditation planets :cool2:

Felipe4 said:
Say if everything on the planet came from the same microorganism , all the species we have today are extensions and expressions of evolution, thought forms or whatnot.
But there is not a starting point or an ending point so there is no evolution per se.

At present, what we perceive is life as it came, through these vehicles that preserve the characteristics necessary for specific experiences, maybe some millions of years humans may morph into something else, even then it will be the present for those occupying future human vessels.

Speaking of morphing, here are a couple of case studies involving whales and bears which, while not providing an immediate answer to these questions, do offer some food for thought (I was hoping that the second video would touch on the close relationship postulated between canids and ursids, but it still provides good examples of niche adaptation):


https://youtu.be/-OCMx2VuP1U

https://youtu.be/CDG-Ja0mqgU

Felipe4 said:
As far as those who do not complete their lessons, i think it is a thought provoking idea that there is atrophy in terms of the centers which eventually lead the person to hinder the expression of the soul and therefore the life lessons at hand, which in turn causes the person to engage in old requirements for development, old mistakes, or full atrophy of the soul. However, there is the factor of the wave that is the breaking point for this event, I wouldn't know how the "repeating of the cycle" would take place or how the process is.

I don’t either – I do infer that on the other side of the Wave, planet-seeding, including the introduction of new 3D models to new or depopulated environments, will continue to occur, as will the ensuing processes of involution and evolution which seem to affect all beings. I’d like to learn more about how these processes actually work – how the constraints (laws) which organize them are defined, and how they operate over great time depths as well as between densities.
 
Shijing said:
Planets may all begin at 1D, that’s possible. The Cs state that the moon is 2D, Jupiter is 4D, and I think they imply that the Earth is presently 3D but then state that movement into 4D will cause it to appear as a gas giant. One question is, what does ‘Density’ mean exactly in terms of planets? If, for example, the moon is 2D, it doesn’t seem to mean that it supports 2D organisms, but rather seems to be a pronouncement on the level of development of the moon itself. So what would be 1D – a comet or an asteroid? And if a gas giant is 4D, what would a star be?
It is curious, that's true. My first instinct was that the density refers to the maximum level a planet's biosphere supports without construction of artificial bases. Here, I might have to use the term biosphere loosely, because this might include the adjacent spectrum colors where being such as Castaneda's "avatars" exist or other entities commonly referred to as "elementals." So perhaps there are globs of energy wandering around the moon's inner planes that are roughly equivalent in intelligence to a cat. I remember Ra describing the light coming from the sun as 6D generative love, so maybe it is 6D, and can't really be inhabited by anything below 5. Perhaps something in the electric universe theory would allow the exotic crystalline portal thing at the center of the Earth to absorb a certain amount of energy, such that planets can change form or even turn into stars. In accordance to what you suggested, it seems worlds start out as comet dust, they get larger and larger and turn into planets, which can accrete more matter and turn into gas planets. The gas planets can turn into stars if they get massive enough. I'm wondering if there's an esoteric component behind the process of planetary evolution beyond what we see in physical science, because it seems that once the planetary nebula clears, the planets have more or less fixed physical dimensions until they die. One of the most nonsensical things the Cassiopaeans ever said was "Earth is a star to be." That should be impossible. And yet, based on the chain of worlds depicted in Gurdjieff's Ray of Creation, there would seem to be some type of evolution possible in accordance with the Law of 7 that allows one celestial body to transform into another type of celestial body counter to what physics tells us should occur. It would seem that at each density transition, the laws of physics governing a particular planet get completely rewritten; like Gurjieff said, there are fewer and fewer constraints. Theoretically, a comet could one day end up spawning its own galaxy. I'm not sure this answer is satisfactory, as it creates far more questions than answers, and would probably have to be answered by the Cassiopaeans.
Shijing said:
I’m not sure I understand the question – can you restate it or elaborate more?
Laura touches on it in Horns of Moses. Basically the observation that increased cosmic radiation causes mutations that can give rise to gigantism or entirely new species; whether that is due to cometary explosions or changes to the magnetic field allowing more galactic radiation to get in or something else. That could explain sudden jumps in the fossil record just as well as genetic engineering, and based on clues from the Cassiopaeans, I think both scenarios actually occur on a somewhat regular basis.
Shijing said:
If the Uzuli information is accurate, perhaps these giant spiders are another example of an older 3D model that we only have the devolved versions of on Earth – similar to what Ouspensky hypothesizes for ants and termites.
Yeah, it's entirely possible.
Shijing said:
I’m not sure the center of the entire galactic civilization is necessarily the Orion arm – in my understanding, I think the most we can say is that it’s the hub in our particular part of the galaxy. It may be the center of a civilization, of which there could be multiple examples throughout the rest of the Milky Way. In other words, if one makes an analogy between the Milky Way and Earth, the Orion civilization may be equivalent of one country. But I like the idea of meditation planets :cool2:
Well, I got this idea from the Cassiopaeans saying this region was the most densely populated in the Milky Way, as most of the "action" on our world occurs in or near the big cities, not in the rural areas. However, population density doesn't necessarily correlate to state of advancement, as many of the big cities in the world are essentially just glorified slums with slick marketing, in my opinion. So the core worlds in a more metaphysically oriented reality might serve as repositories for knowledge and wisdom instead of hubs of economic activity.
 
Neil said:
I remember Ra describing the light coming from the sun as 6D generative love, so maybe it is 6D, and can't really be inhabited by anything below 5. Perhaps something in the electric universe theory would allow the exotic crystalline portal thing at the center of the Earth to absorb a certain amount of energy, such that planets can change form or even turn into stars. In accordance to what you suggested, it seems worlds start out as comet dust, they get larger and larger and turn into planets, which can accrete more matter and turn into gas planets. The gas planets can turn into stars if they get massive enough. I'm wondering if there's an esoteric component behind the process of planetary evolution beyond what we see in physical science, because it seems that once the planetary nebula clears, the planets have more or less fixed physical dimensions until they die. One of the most nonsensical things the Cassiopaeans ever said was "Earth is a star to be." That should be impossible. And yet, based on the chain of worlds depicted in Gurdjieff's Ray of Creation, there would seem to be some type of evolution possible in accordance with the Law of 7 that allows one celestial body to transform into another type of celestial body counter to what physics tells us should occur. It would seem that at each density transition, the laws of physics governing a particular planet get completely rewritten; like Gurjieff said, there are fewer and fewer constraints. Theoretically, a comet could one day end up spawning its own galaxy. I'm not sure this answer is satisfactory, as it creates far more questions than answers, and would probably have to be answered by the Cassiopaeans.

Well, take what I’m suggesting with a grain of salt, since it’s only speculation at this point. On this topic though, it is interesting to note that there are a few people who advocate for an expanding Earth model. I think it was first popularized by Neal Adams, but it’s been formulated by a couple others as well. This is a more recent video on the topic, by one of the proponents who incorporates the Electric Universe theory:


https://youtu.be/swCnPOi5qOU

Having mentioned the Ra Material (do you happen to have an exact quote for the reference you mention above?), I think there’s quite a bit there that addresses the nature of the sun. I haven’t had a chance to look it all up yet, but for now there’s this brief excerpt that mentions densities in relation to planets (in the context of the inhabitants of Lemuria):

Session 10: 1/27/81 said:
They were beings of a somewhat primitive nature, but those who had very advanced spiritual distortions. The civilization was part of this cycle, experienced early within the cycle at a time of approximately 53,000 of your years ago. It was a helpful and harmless place which was washed beneath the ocean during a readjustment of your sphere’s tectonic plates through no action of their own. They sent out those who survived and reached many places in what you call Russia, North America, and South America. The Indians of whom you come to feel some sympathy in your social complex distortions are the descendants of these entities. Like the other incarnates of this cycle, they came from elsewhere. However, these particular entities were largely from a second-density planet which had some difficulty, due to the age of its sun, in achieving third-density life conditions. This planet was from the galaxy Deneb.

It’s unclear to me, unfortunately, whether Ra is referring to the planet itself or to its inhabitants in terms of density.

Neil said:
Laura touches on it in Horns of Moses. Basically the observation that increased cosmic radiation causes mutations that can give rise to gigantism or entirely new species; whether that is due to cometary explosions or changes to the magnetic field allowing more galactic radiation to get in or something else. That could explain sudden jumps in the fossil record just as well as genetic engineering, and based on clues from the Cassiopaeans, I think both scenarios actually occur on a somewhat regular basis.

OK, I see what you mean. So the question I would have is whether such processes (1) are part of a general system that is designed to facilitate speciation as one of its functions, or (2) if they happen for more specific, and perhaps more arbitrary, reasons but nevertheless have the same result (at least occasionally) as a separate and independent general system which they are nevertheless not part of.

Neil said:
Well, I got this idea from the Cassiopaeans saying this region was the most densely populated in the Milky Way, as most of the "action" on our world occurs in or near the big cities, not in the rural areas. However, population density doesn't necessarily correlate to state of advancement, as many of the big cities in the world are essentially just glorified slums with slick marketing, in my opinion. So the core worlds in a more metaphysically oriented reality might serve as repositories for knowledge and wisdom instead of hubs of economic activity.

That’s a good point, and I suppose it’s another open question – the Orion region could be the actual hub of galactic civilization in all the ways we normally think of such, or it could be the galactic equivalent of China, or there may be still another way of looking at it.
 
Shijing said:
Well, take what I’m suggesting with a grain of salt, since it’s only speculation at this point. On this topic though, it is interesting to note that there are a few people who advocate for an expanding Earth model. I think it was first popularized by Neal Adams, but it’s been formulated by a couple others as well. This is a more recent video on the topic, by one of the proponents who incorporates the Electric Universe theory:
That was an interesting video, and would answer a few questions, although it seems counter to a lot of what the Cassiopaeans had to say about the subject. When asked about the expansion theory, they didn't give a direct answer, but I took it to be a "no," although it could be interpreted in a way that would fit this guy's theory, at least partially.
Session970222 said:
Q: (T) Is the Earth expanding? That's just putting it bluntly, but, is the Earth expanding, how did you put that? (Ark) Yes, that's the theory: the idea is that the continents move away because the Earth is expanding, and this is much faster than you know, than geologists were thinking.
A: Continental "drift" is caused by the continual though variable, propelling of gases from the interior to the surface, mainly at points of magnetic significance.
Q: (J) What causes the change in the axis?
A: By slow down of rotation. Earth alternately heats up and cools down in interior.
Q: (L) Why does it do that? What's the cause of this?
A: Part of cycle related to energy exerted upon surface by the frequency resonance vibrational profile of humans and others.
They seem to be saying that the standard model of planetary composition is correct except for the crystalline ammonia core.
Session011031 said:
Q: (A) What would be - if any - the role played by electric phenomena?
A: Twin sun grounds current flow through entire system setting the "motor" running.
Q: (L) Does this mean that all of the different bodies of the solar system are like parts of some kind of giant machine, and once this electric current flows through them, depending on their positions relative to one another at the time this current flows, that it has some influence on the way the machine runs?
A: Yes, more or less.
Q: (A) I want to ask about this magnetic pole reversal. It's the current theory or understanding of magnetic field of planets in terms of dynamo mechanism, where there is a liquid metal - iron - which is hot - there are convective currents, and there is self-excitation through magnetic field. That's the present model. They were able to model this magnetic pole reversal using this kind of magneto-hydro-dynamics. Is this model essentially correct?
A: Only partly.
Q: (A) What is the main thing that is important, and that is lacking from this model?
A: Crystalline ammonia core.
Q: (A) Everybody thinks that the core is a crystal iron; that's the present thinking. Say it's an ammonia core: is an ammonia core in all planets with magnetic fields? Is this so?
A: From this perspective, no but from the perspective of organic life, yes.
Q: (A) When we speak about crystalline ammonia, do you mean a new kind of crystalline ammonia that is not yet known on Earth to our scientists?
A: More or less.
Q: (L) I think we need to find out something about this crystalline ammonia. (A) What would make it go into the very core? (L) I don't know. We don't know enough about it to even know how to frame a question. I know we thought it was crazy when they were talking about Jupiter and the ammonia, and then of course all this ammonia shows up on Jupiter. And I remember them saying something about this at the time, but I don't think we ever followed up on it because I thought it was even to crazy to think about. Maybe we need to find out something about ammonia, crystalline ammonia. (A) Is there a mini black hole in the center of the Earth?
A: No.
Q: (L) I remember when I was a kid - this is a funny thing - we got this kind of chemistry experiment. You put these chemicals together and it grew crystals. I think ammonia was part of it. I think you had to use ammonia to grow crystals. (A) Okay, now this crystalline ammonia core inside the Earth, can we have idea how big it is, what radius?
A: 300 km.
Q: (L) What is surrounding it, what is the next layer? (A) Normally people would say it's an iron crystal. What is the next layer?
A: Correct.
Q: (A) There is this ammonia - crystalline... (L) Surrounded by iron crystal. Is it crystal iron? (A) Probably at this pressure that is here, it may very well be crystal. (L) Okay, is the iron surrounding the ammonia, is it crystalline?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What's the next layer?
A: Molten iron.
Q: (A) Okay, now we know that some planets have this crystalline ammonia, and some do not. When we consider planets that have this crystal ammonia inside, how did it get there? Was it a kernel first around which the planet was formed, or first the planet was formed and then during some processes the ammonia sank and crystallized inside? I would like to know how it got there?
A: It is the natural formation process for ammonia to accrete iron from supernovae.
Q: (L) I read somewhere - about supernovae - that the only reason we have iron is because it's produced in supernovas. That would mean that our solar system is formed from a supernova, right? In which case what blew up and when? (A) I understand that this crystalline ammonia core - 300 km radius - must have certain magnetic properties which are important. Because it was mentioned that it was lacking in dynamo theory or certain very important properties concerning heat convection. So there are these two main things in dynamo theory - conductivity and electric properties - on the other hand heat convection properties. Why is this ammonia important for the magnetic field because of what properties?
A: Super conducting.
Q: (A) According to what we know it's very hot inside the earth because of the pressure. Now, is this ammonia also hot, as much as iron?
A: Grows alternately cold and hot.
Q: (A) Is it super conducting even if when it is very hot?
A: No.
Q: (A) When it gets cold, how cold does it get?
A: 55 degrees below absolute zero.
Q: (L) What is absolute zero? (A) That is something you can't get below. That's why it's called absolute zero. It's a new thermo-dynamics. (L) How often does it alternate?
A: Close to hour long periods.
Q: (L) So when it gets so cold and becomes super conducting, the act of super-conducting is what heats it up? Is that it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well once it heats up, how does it then get cold again?
A: It stops conducting.
Q: (L) What is it conducting? When something is super conducting what does it conduct?
A: Electrons.
Q: (A) The point is, you see, that when something is super conducting it offers no resistance. Which means that the current it flows through it, is not heating it. Well we learned that it gets hot because it's super conductive, right? Which is somewhat contradictory because when it is super-conducting there's no reason for it to be hot except it can become hot because there is the hot external shell of iron. So that is very likely why it would become hot. Because by the very definition of super conductivity you don't become hot when you conduct, see? Well, if there are big, very big currents, then okay, they can stop super conductivity, then it gets warm.
A: Currents of this nature set the surrounding iron to vibrating which produces heat, not heat produced by the current.
Q: (A) Now, I want to go back to this 55 degree below absolute zero. And here I would like to have a confirmation of this 55 degree below zero. Because. according to the current knowledge of physics, the absolute zero was set by definition, as the temperature on the scale, according to the science of thermo-dynamics, which is - so to say - nothing moves so you cannot go below this temperature. If you say 55 degrees below zero it means we have to redo physics and redo thermo-dynamics.
A: You have entered a different realm.
Q: (A) What?
A: Lack of movement as measured by physics is based upon 3rd density conventions.
Q: (A) What causes this appearance of new physics in the center of the planet? We do not see this need for new physics around us. But somehow there are specific conditions, apparently, in the center of the planet that cause necessity of entering this new physics.
A: Windows.
Q: (L) Let me ask this, if it was possible to measure a temperature of something that was being subjected to a very intense electro-magnetic field what would it show? (A) Well the question is different, you see, because we asked first about why there is this ammonia crystal inside, okay? The answer was it was a natural process. But now we see there is this window inside. What is the reason that there is this window inside? Now you suggest, honey, that the widow inside is because there are - or because who knows what causes what - but there are very strong electro-magnetic fields. Is the window inside related to the fact that we have to go beyond standard physics? Is it related to the fact that there are very strong electro-magnetic field inside?
A: Reciprocal function.
My conception was that during certain cycles you would have a planet-sized lightning bolt connecting the sun and the Earth, whereby the Earth would get "charged up." This could lead to all kinds of interesting effects, such as a dramatic increase in thunderstorm activity, electrical currents traveling through the ground and arcing out of the rocks, and a more electromagnetically active environment which could have all kinds of strange effects on the realm frequency; sort of like a planetary wide version of the Philadelphia Experiment. It is conceivable that if the planet had this much energy, it might glow slightly. A three-brained being may have a hard time functioning in this environment, it may not be able to provide the impressions needed to give the planet what it needs, and would necessitate the evolution of a four-brained being. One could imagine that, if taken to an extreme, the Earth could become so energetically charged that from afar it looks like a glowing ball of plasma, and the only "body" capable of surviving in that environment would be some kind of noncorporeal crystalline energy field. Due to the gravitational effects observed around these larger bodies, I still think there must be some mechanism for mass creation in the growth of planets, and the matter is created through this hyperdimensional portal that is stimulated by the giant superconductor at the center of the planet. This is probably governed by some kind of 4D physics and trying to nail it down will be a real can of worms, but it probably has something to do with the portal pulling through energies from higher densities which are then transmuted into something more solid, similar to when the aliens fully manifest themselves in our 3D reality. At certain intervals, the energy state of the matter surrounding the core can be excited in such a way by these currents that it changes it's fundamental properties, and this is what accompanies the realm borders. In the following session they did state that everything cycles fully.
Session950304 said:
Is the planet earth, as so many have predicted, going to acquire an additional sun?
A: Maybe.
Q: (T) An additional sun, like if Jupiter blows up? Is Jupiter an unborn sun?
A: Jupiter is already a star.
Q: (L) Why do we not perceive it as a star?
A: You are still learning. Earth is a star to be.
Q: (F) How the hell can that be? (L) If a planet...
A: Every thing cycles fully.
Q: (L) If a star is a transition point from one dimension to another, when the earth moves into 4th density, is it going to appear as a star to the people in 3rd density?
A: "Gas planet."
Q: (L) It will appear as a gas planet? (J) Just as Jupiter appears to us.
A: Jupiter is level 4 density.
Q: (L) To whom does Jupiter appear as a flaming sun, at what level?
A: 5, 6, and 7.
Q: (T) What does it look like in 4th?
A: Earth.
Q: (T) Jupiter looks like Earth and Earth looks like Jupiter in 4th density?
A: No.
Q: (L) What does Earth look like in 4th density?
A: Invisible.
Q: (J) Huh? (L) What do you mean, invisible?
A: Only visible upon request. Variability of physicality.
Q: (L) Okay, does this mean that to the Lizzies and Orions the earth is invisible?
A: When they are not thinking about it.
Q: (J) You mean when they are not thinking about it it doesn't exist? They have to focus on it for it to become visible?
A: Close.
Q: (T) But, you told us one time that everyone in 4th density was able to see us?
A: Yes.
Q: (J) Us, not earth. (T) What do they see us on?
A: Able to see you when they choose to.
Q: (J) In other words, they focus on the frequency to see us. (L) I guess it is like animals in second density. You ride down the road and don't really see what is around you unless you focus in on
it. (J) Unless you concentrate on looking for them... (T) Like standing still in a forest and after a time you can see what is there. (J) It is all according to perception.
A: Yes, but 4th level is the first one with true variability.
Q: (L) Georges Gurdjieff proposed the idea that the earth is, in a sense, food for the moon. What he meant was, what he had learned from these ancient teachers was that earth was a food source for some level of being, and that possibly these beings had encampments or bases on the moon, but that earth was eventually to become a star and that then the moon would become an inhabited planet as the earth was, and so on... Is this a fairly...
A: Close.
Q: (L) Is the Moon a second density planet?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And the Moon is used as a base by other beings?
A: On different densities.
Q: (L) Are there 2nd density beings that inhabit the moon in a full time way?
A: No.
Q: (T) Are there 3rd density beings?
A: No.
Q: (T) Are there 4th density beings?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) Are they Grays?
A: They don't inhabit the moon, they just use it.
Q: (T) Are there 5th density beings there?
A: 5th uses all.
Q: (T) Are there 6th density beings there?
A: Ditto.
Q: (T) Is the 7th density being there?
A: That is union with the One.
Q: (T) Thank you, just checking. (L) The "Arcturians" talk about the path to the Great Central Sun. What is the Great Central Sun, and what does this mean, "The path to the Great Central Sun?"
A: 7th level.
Q: (L) Is the star, Arcturus, also a residence, as in planet, for certain beings?
A: Stars are transition and communication points.
Another interesting point from this session is how Jupiter can be a gas planet, Earth-like planet, and star all at the same time depending on who's looking at it. That should be impossible...unless you have a perception unconstrained by time. Since time appears to be actually "selective and variable," and if there is some mechanism for planets to evolve in this way, then perhaps these entities move forward and backward through time until they find the right "time cycle" in which it is usable to them. The "time cycle" seemed to be an important question asked by various visitors to our realm documented in Keel's books. It is interesting that the Earth and the Moon do not appear to exist on the 4D realm, but 4D STS can still manifest in this world by moving into sync with the correct time cycle, I guess.
Shijing said:
Having mentioned the Ra Material (do you happen to have an exact quote for the reference you mention above?), I think there’s quite a bit there that addresses the nature of the sun. I haven’t had a chance to look it all up yet, but for now there’s this brief excerpt that mentions densities in relation to planets (in the context of the inhabitants of Lemuria):
I remembered the Cassiopaeans saying that 6D uses all, but there were no attributions of lower density beings to it, which is why I thought it was 6D. The Cassiopaeans say that stars are transition and communication points, and this is pretty close to what Ra had to say about it and the sub-logos. From Session 3/20/81
Questioner: In trying to build an understanding from the start, you might say, starting with intelligent infinity and getting to our present condition of being I think that I should go back and investigate our sun since it is the sub-Logos that creates all that we experience in this particular planetary system. Will you give me a description of our sun?
Ra: I am Ra. This is a query which is not easily answered in your language, for the sun has various aspects in relation to intelligent infinity, to intelligent energy, and to each density of each planet, as you call these spheres. Moreover, these differences extend into the metaphysical or time/space part of your creation. In relationship to intelligent infinity, the sun body is, equally with all parts of the infinite creation, part of that infinity. In relation to the potentiated intelligent infinity which makes use of intelligent energy, it is the offspring, shall we say, of the Logos for a much larger number of sub-Logoi. The relationship is hierarchical in that the sub-Logos uses the intelligent energy in ways set forth by the Logos and uses its free will to co-create the, shall we say, full nuances of your densities as you experience them. In relationship to the densities, the sun body may physically, as you would say, be seen to be a large body of gaseous elements undergoing the processes of fusion and radiating heat and light. Metaphysically, the sun achieves a meaning to fourth through seventh density according to the growing abilities of entities in these densities to grasp the living creation and co-entity, or other-self, nature of this sun body. Thus by the sixth density the sun may be visited and inhabited by those dwelling in time/space and may even be partially created from moment to moment by the processes of sixth density entities in their evolution.
Questioner: In your last statement did you mean that the sixth density entities are actually creating manifestations of the sun in their density? Could you explain what you meant by that?
Ra: I am Ra. In this density some entities whose means of reproduction is fusion may choose to perform this portion of experience as part of the beingness of the sun body. Thus you may think of portions of the light that you receive as offspring of the generative expression of sixth-density love.
Questioner: Then could you say that sixth-density entities are using that mechanism to be more closely co-Creators with the infinite Creator?
Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct as seen in the latter portions of sixth density seeking the experiences of the gateway density.
Questioner: Thank you. What I want to do now is investigate, as the first density is formed, what happens and how energy centers are first formed in beings. Does it make any sense to ask you if the sun itself has a density, or is it all densities?
Ra: I am Ra. The sub-Logos is of the entire octave and is not that entity which experiences the learning/teachings of entities such as yourselves.
A bit more about the fusion/sexual nature of 6D beings viewed in the context of Wanderers.
Session810227 said:
The sixth-density, whose means of propagation you may liken to what you call fusion, is likely to refrain, to a great extent, from the bisexual reproductive programming of the bodily complex and instead seek out those with whom the sexual energy transfer is of the complete fusion nature in so far as this is possible in manifestation in third-density.
Questioner: Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by “complete fusion nature”?
Ra: I am Ra. The entire creation is of the one Creator. Thus the division of sexual activity into simply that of the bodily complex is an artificial division, all things thusly being seen as sexual equally, the mind, the body, and the spirit; all of which are part of the polarity of the entity. Thus sexual fusion may be seen with or without what you may call sexual intercourse to be the complete melding of the mind, the body, and the spirit in what feels to be a constant orgasm, shall we say, of joy and delight each in the other’s beingness.
So it would appear that the sun is one of the lowest level, localized nodes through which the divine will from the 6D spiritual universe can be imparted to the physical universe. It does seem to be implied by Ra, that the sun is physically powered by nuclear fusion, I wonder if it was talking about this in terms of the 6D fusion and the information got confused when it was transmitted, or it's just plain wrong.
Shijing said:
It’s unclear to me, unfortunately, whether Ra is referring to the planet itself or to its inhabitants in terms of density.
It seems to me that this was an old planet that was dying and kind of impoverished in terms of the energies that could be made available for the beings living there; therefore the environment was only "rich" enough to provide adequate physical and psychical sustenance to 2D life, and as it got older the biosphere would devolve as it became less and less energetic and able to maintain the parameters for complex life.
Shijing said:
OK, I see what you mean. So the question I would have is whether such processes (1) are part of a general system that is designed to facilitate speciation as one of its functions, or (2) if they happen for more specific, and perhaps more arbitrary, reasons but nevertheless have the same result (at least occasionally) as a separate and independent general system which they are nevertheless not part of.
Well, the esoteric literature would seem to suggest that these cosmic cycles are originally set up by some high density intelligence to perpetuate some system and inflict cyclical changes as part of some "grand plan." Then lower intelligences are allowed to come in and augment it within certain boundaries as a way of diversifying the experience. Some of these augmentations have unforeseen ripple effects and eventually manifest as "random" occurrences. In other words, yes to both, but in my worldview (1) is dominant.

The biggest frustration with this line of inquiry is that you keep brushing up against hyperdimensional realities, and as soon as you might be able to tease out one 4D "fact" about why things are the way they are, you're immediately led to about 5 more unknown variables which leave holes in your model.
 
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