Discussion of the works by Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Ivan`88]

Ivan’88

Thank you for the additional insight and information on the life and experiences of Krishnamurti! You have dug into his history very well and I very much appreciate your overview of what you learned.
I have read some other’s interpretations of him from others, and few of those have tried to demonize him and contradict his private life as hypocrisy. I think this is driven to make his insight and inspiration of no valid importance because of their lack of awareness; in my opinion. Your additional insight in his early history is very wonderful.
I feel some of this negativity is just the tactics of our current world and from people that have difficulty of understanding the beauty of what comes from the heart or love. Our those that have no patience to put an effort in truly studying.
Your realization is very close to what I understood.
I feel that during the time of his important teachings, people wanted a spiritual check list that could be checked off in some order to achieve the enlightenment that they thought his ideas were all about. But as you said, it comes from within each of us.
It took me a few books to realize what he was really talking about. As you mentioned “YOU ARE EVERYTHING” there is no separation of God and all things. (The cosmic mind)!
I could fill his frustration in reading some of his talks, on the proper way to meditate, people wanted a check list of answers, but he showed those that were awake, that just walking in this world with no expectations or judgment, was his teaching of that meditation, he was trying real hard to convey this, but few really understood the connection. This understanding brought the light and love of God of which we really are, at least in my heart and understanding.
His insight is so relevant of today and we can see how better the world would be if more people followed just a little more and not be consumed in the novelty of the time.
This is truly networking as you mentioned. I see it also as collaboration; gaining understanding from others that have some more experienced in an area of study or thought, where both can contribute and uncover deeper meanings through each creative insight and experiences. We can then come closer to all that is.

Keep up the learning, pondering and meditations. As I will, and know we can find some peace in this world in chaos.

I always like to network! Let’s do so!

Thanks KingTiger.It is relief to know that there is people who knows about this man and his teachings which we agreed that it have great value.Notice that some of your words and ralizations about Krishnamurti have something common to C`s.Also thanks to everyone else on this topic,and others who have opposite opininons.We need challenge each other.

And ofcourse there is more...

 

[Ivan`88]

About meditation.

What we have said about Krishnamurtis(in the following text K)meditation,and what we have here on the forum it looks like two quiet opposite things.K said:"there must be no effort to meditate",here we say focus,concetrate,hold...which means effort.But i think there is common line between the two.I`ll try to explain but we must be very careful.

Lets use for an example:anger.Everyone knows what it is.
In a moment of angar very often we say:"I am angry".And then K asks:"Who is that who says I am angry?"
We must know that we are talking about the psychological sense,psychological movement,movement within us.
When we say:"I am angry"that means there is "I"and there is "anger";two things.K says when there is two things in us,there must be separation,which means inevitable conflict.It seems obvious to me ,if there is "me" so it cant be separation,unless we are deluded or something like that.And when there is separation in us our brain very deeply,unconsciously acts as if the problem is beyond us,so that we can do something bout it.And then we say:"I must not be angry;I must reduce it,control it..."
I think that is a trap.Or program maybe.
And then K asks:"in a moment of anger,what can you do about it?"So really what can we do about it?In that moment can we say:"I dont wanna be angry?"And the anger is gone?No,it doesnt work.Can you push the button and anger disappears.No.
We can punch the other,break,crush something,hurt ourselfs;but that wouldnt dissolve the anger,it will only cultivate it and not solving the problem.I guess we are sane and healthy people.

K says:"We can do NOTHING about it"
And that is the main lesson.In a moment of anger you can to nothing.Think about it,do it for yourself.I think there is great meaninig.
And then K says:"Observe it,watch it,hold it like a most precious thing in a world and see what happens"That means observe everything that happens inside you;your body,tensity,brathing,heart beating,heat,and of course big mess in head.
Now we are touching the common line.Here on forum we say when we meditate on a "word",for example,and after a while some thoughts apperas and then we say;let it go ang go back to the "word".That is observation which K talks about;"Observe all that."

So if we are completely aware of anger ,what happens?It flowers,it telling you a story,it rises and then it dissolves.It dissolve because there is nothing to attach to.
But if you DO something with anger ,then the anger has something to attach to and goes on and on.
When you are aware of anger completely,you UNDERSTAND anger,you understand her whole story.That doesnt mean you get rid of it,of course it would be pathological,but when it comes next time it doesnt affects you,it doesnt control you it lasts very little.You`ll be like a rock in a river.

"I wonder if you see this" K

 

[KingTiger]

More on the idea about meditation.

"Meditation is one of the most extraordinary things, and if you do not know what it is you are like a blind person in a world of bright color, shadows, and moving light.

It is not an intellectual affair, when the heart enters into the mind, the mind has quite a different quality: it is then really limitless, not only in its capacity to think, to act efficiently, but also in its sense of living in a vast space where you are part of everything.

Meditation is the movement of love...

This meditation cannot be learned from another. You must begin without knowing anything about it, and move from innocence to innocence.

The soil in which the meditative mind can begin is the soil of everyday life, the strife, the pain, and the fleeting joy. It must begin there, and bring order, and from there move endlessly... You must take a plunge into the water, not knowing how to swim. And the beauty of meditation is that you never know where you are, where you are going, what the end is."

J. Krishnamurti
Excerpt from Meditations, 1969

Going back through my notes, Krishnamurti does bring up the terminology of the Thinker, Observer and the Observered. The usage of these can be briefly used in the following quote;

Isn’t it important, then, to find out for ourselves what significance we give to life, if we do? Surely, the purposes, the goals, the Masters, the gods, the beliefs, the ends through which we are seeking fulfillment are all invented by the mind; they are all the outcome of our conditioning, and realizing that, is it not important to uncondition the mind? When the mind is unconditioned and is therefore not giving significance to life, then life is an extraordinary thing, something totally different from the framework of the mind. But first we must know our own conditioning, must we not? And is it possible to know our conditioning, our limitations, our background, without forcing, without analyzing, without trying to sublimate or suppress it? Because that whole process involves the entity who observes and separates himself from the observed, does it not? As long as there is the observer and the observed, conditioning must continue. However much the observer, the thinker, the censor, may try to get rid of his conditioning, he is still caught in that conditioning because the very division between the thinker and the thought, the experiencer and the experience, is the perpetuation of conditioning; and it is extremely difficult to let this division disappear because it involves the whole problem of will.

From one of his third talk from the Oak Grove in the book “As One is”

Again, one cannot convey these ideas he was presenting to his students, since these concepts are so vast; I would be quoting all the time.
These understandings are based on understanding one’s self in contemplation in our personal meditation. In that state, these ideas and concepts can be clear, but in the cognitive world, there is difficulty in its explanation, since we do not have the words that can connected to understanding, Insight, Emotion, Creativity, Spirit, Intuition all at the same time!
I am sure others know this feeling and I, for sure can say that I cannot fully comprehend it in a way that I can teach it. I am too involved in my meager conscious material existence to be more than a beginner student.

Let’s continue to try though with networking, maybe we can learn some new words. Learning is extending ourselves that encompasses more of our true nature of all that is.