Disturbing News

[EGVG]

Hello everyone! I hope that everyones is OK, I'm praying a lot, for me, my family and everyone that aspires to be a STO transition candidate.Or already is ;)
I'm posting now because of something that happend to me 4 days ago, something really disturbing, and honestly the situation was too much for me to help or be usefull.
4 days ago, I was on the computer reading, on facebook and on Msn, I went to watch TV and let everything on, some minutes pass and I see my compute screen, there was a msn alert, an old high school friend was talking to me. I go and see what he had to say, he was hysteric, he told me that he had cut his left arm and was waiting for dead, and ask me if I could say goodbye to our mutual friends from school. First I thought he was just after attention, because hes always bee a troubled man, and this wasn't the first time he had talk about killing himself. So in a very strange gesture I said to him, before you kill your self watch this video, I was about to send him a Rihanna video, so that he could watch someting and you know, stop and breath, while I was copying the link he disconnected.

I thought that he was dead for some 20 seconds, I was praying I had this immense feeling of overwhelming emotions. Memories, and I felt that this was a sing that I could not be wondering and getting free stuff anymore, I needed to grow up. Suddenly he again connected and told me that his bedroom floor was turning red, I told him "you're scaring me" "goodbye" and I disconnected.

The next day during a family lunch, I metion this event, and everyone was like, oh maybe he was searching for attention, and we got into the suicide theme, it was interesting, there was an 80 year old lady, a middle age inventor, a yoga/architect, a Jewellery designer, a Psychoanalyst, and me a 20 year old student. So we talk had a great lunch and them my mom was worried, she asked me if I had phone him(my friend) and I said no, I didn't want to get involve or find out.

The next morning, my mom approaches me and tells me that my friend has been put into psychiatric custody, and was in a clinic. I was shock for a moment but them I remember something that had been in my head hidden. This troubled friend had told me that when he was a kid, he his elder brother and his dad where playing on a park, and suddenly the where bright lights in form of balls dancing and moving above them, the all 3 saw them and then continue to play as if nothing had happen. In a different occasion, he also told me that he had seen a star move in patterns in the sky for hours, and that no one believed him because since he was very young, 14, he was consuming Marijuana, various time a week, actually he was the one that introduced me into bad habits in school, into been the popular kid by doing drugs. I was a very mature teenager in school and of course was very precocious of his intentions and his sanity.

OK, so this memory of him telling me this stories immediately came to my mind when my mom told me that he had been taken away and actually the city police had to break his door and stop him from getting killed. I really don't want to visit him, he's been away from my life enough for me to realise that his friendship does not mean anything to him, he is just there when he need something from you, like your attention. He is immature, a coward and mentally sick, I have never in my life meet someone like him. He got into my life, he introduced me to things that haven't help me in anyway, sure I've learned lessons but I lost a lot of time... He got into my life and never care about me, It was all about him, all about what he had what he did who he hanged out with, like trying to impress me, of course I always look at him without taking him seriously.

Sadly his family also don't take him seriously, I recon that he has had a very difficult childhood, but I just feel he is loaded with poison. This was a strange happening for me, It definitely took me to a deeper level emotionally and actually help me see more clearly our friendship. Omg thanks for reading I needed to post this

EDU

 

[Approaching Infinity]

4 days ago, I was on the computer reading, on facebook and on Msn, I went to watch TV and let everything on, some minutes pass and I see my compute screen, there was a msn alert, an old high school friend was talking to me. I go and see what he had to say, he was hysteric, he told me that he had cut his left arm and was waiting for dead, and ask me if I could say goodbye to our mutual friends from school. First I thought he was just after attention, because hes always bee a troubled man, and this wasn't the first time he had talk about killing himself. So in a very strange gesture I said to him, before you kill your self watch this video, I was about to send him a Rihanna video, so that he could watch someting and you know, stop and breath, while I was copying the link he disconnected.

I thought that he was dead for some 20 seconds, I was praying I had this immense feeling of overwhelming emotions. Memories, and I felt that this was a sing that I could not be wondering and getting free stuff anymore, I needed to grow up. Suddenly he again connected and told me that his bedroom floor was turning red, I told him "you're scaring me" "goodbye" and I disconnected.

EGVG, are you saying that after hearing from this guy that he was committing suicide you didn't tell anyone/call anyone, or do anything at all??

I'm posting now because of something that happend to me 4 days ago, something really disturbing, and honestly the situation was too much for me to help or be usefull.

What about the other guy?? All it takes is one phone call to the police, his family, ANYONE. For all you knew he was lying there dying in a pool of his own blood, and from what you wrote it sounds like you just went to bed and told it to your family the next day as if it were nothing. Can you see the disconnect here?

 

[EGVG]

EGVG, are you saying that after hearing from this guy that he was committing suicide you didn't tell anyone/call anyone, or do anything at all??

It was no the first time he said had threaten to take his life, and also, something I forgot to tell was that, he told me that he was locked in his room, with his family, doctor and police officers outside, trying to get inside. But yeah I didn't do anything at that time, just told him that he was scaring me, but I have to admit that I'm not about to stop or help anyone in that position, I don't have the power to do that. Especially when I have talked to him before. I have tell him that killing himself would no help him, on the contrary it would he a horrible thing for him and his family! I wrote him, I took the effort to give him all the good information that I've learned, but he didn't listen to me back them, he made fun of me and my "esoteric stuff", so this time I really didn't knew if he was telling the truth or just playing with me.

What about the other guy?? All it takes is one phone call to the police, his family, ANYONE. For all you knew he was lying there dying in a pool of his own blood, and from what you wrote it sounds like you just went to bed and told it to your family the next day as if it were nothing. Can you see the disconnect here?

The police was allready there, also his family. I know that it may seem like that, but on the contrary I was very shaken and wen I told my family about this I did it because I was worried and confused, didn't knew how to deal with something like this. So yes I can see the disconnection your seeing, but it was no the case.


EDU

 

[Approaching Infinity]

EGVG, are you saying that after hearing from this guy that he was committing suicide you didn't tell anyone/call anyone, or do anything at all??

It was no the first time he said had threaten to take his life, and also, something I forgot to tell was that, he told me that he was locked in his room, with his family, doctor and police officers outside, trying to get inside. But yeah I didn't do anything at that time, just told him that he was scaring me, but I have to admit that I'm not about to stop or help anyone in that position, I don't have the power to do that. Especially when I have talked to him before. I have tell him that killing himself would no help him, on the contrary it would he a horrible thing for him and his family! I wrote him, I took the effort to give him all the good information that I've learned, but he didn't listen to me back them, he made fun of me and my "esoteric stuff", so this time I really didn't knew if he was telling the truth or just playing with me.

Thanks for clearing that up, EGVG. That was a crucial bit of info there! I think it still would've been a good idea to make a phone call to check if what he was saying was true, but I can understand your position, and how this could leave you feeling very shaken! Have you heard any news on how he's doing? It definitely sounds like he's had some bad experiences in his life, and it's a shame that it doesn't look like he's been able to get the help he needs...

 

[Avi]

Dear EGVG:

I agree that this story is disturbing, on many levels.

Yes, it sounds like he is very troubled. But in the sense of helping one another and learning what it means to be of service to others, I cannot help but wonder?

To put it another way, if you are interested in being of service to others, or learning what that means, do you get to decide who to help?

Maybe it will make more sense to impersonalize it, so, in a general sense, does one get to decide who needs help and who does not? Now the question of who one CAN help versus those one cannot is a different matter altogether. Yet what do we base this criteria on? Or do we strive to be open and receptive to the needs of the moment. Can it be put any more plainly than those who need help in this world are often reaching out BECAUSE they need help? After all it is not the person without any problems that needs help, yes?

I can understand your desire (implied) to not be bothered by this man if he has done this type of thing before and I am not saying he is your responsibility. But in terms of learning, have you looked at all the little nuances surrounding what appears to me as a very strong reaction against being imposed upon? Granted I can understand skepticism and doubt , especially if he has cried wolf before.

It is a rattling experience for sure and I don't know what I would do if faced with such a situation, never having been confronted with similar circumstance. Maybe you are right and it is all a desperate ploy for attention, but I think the tendency too prevalent today to view things as "not my problem" is dangerous for humanity. And I am not referring to now since the situation has passed, but in the moment, what really transpired, motives and all.

Maybe I am reading something into this that is not there and certainly one cannot help another hell-bent on self-destruction.

But why of all the people to contact at that time did he choose you? A mirror, a lesson, a challenge...or simply a scare and a "disconnect".
And isn't that the way of the world today, disconnects, isolation and fear.

kind regards.

 

[Acaja]

Dear EGVG:

I agree that this story is disturbing, on many levels.

Yes, it sounds like he is very troubled. But in the sense of helping one another and learning what it means to be of service to others, I cannot help but wonder?

To put it another way, if you are interested in being of service to others, or learning what that means, do you get to decide who to help?

Maybe it will make more sense to impersonalize it, so, in a general sense, does one get to decide who needs help and who does not? Now the question of who one CAN help versus those one cannot is a different matter altogether. Yet what do we base this criteria on? Or do we strive to be open and receptive to the needs of the moment. Can it be put any more plainly than those who need help in this world are often reaching out BECAUSE they need help? After all it is not the person without any problems that needs help, yes?

I can understand your desire (implied) to not be bothered by this man if he has done this type of thing before and I am not saying he is your responsibility. But in terms of learning, have you looked at all the little nuances surrounding what appears to me as a very strong reaction against being imposed upon? Granted I can understand skepticism and doubt , especially if he has cried wolf before.

It is a rattling experience for sure and I don't know what I would do if faced with such a situation, never having been confronted with similar circumstance. Maybe you are right and it is all a desperate ploy for attention, but I think the tendency too prevalent today to view things as "not my problem" is dangerous for humanity. And I am not referring to now since the situation has passed, but in the moment, what really transpired, motives and all.

Maybe I am reading something into this that is not there and certainly one cannot help another hell-bent on self-destruction.

But why of all the people to contact at that time did he choose you? A mirror, a lesson, a challenge...or simply a scare and a "disconnect".
And isn't that the way of the world today, disconnects, isolation and fear.

kind regards.

Good point. Come to think of it, maybe there's an ultimate challenge for you here, that is are you going to stay away from this "mess" since it seems it has caused you some damage by the past, or, is there something ELSE you can do to help him now that it looks like the situation's taken another step ? Have you considered about acting on a totally different way ? Maybe I'm not using the right words, so let's try this : Are you, at this very moment,really sure that you're totally useless and cannot act somehow ?
And I'm not talking about emotions like fear, anger or whatever...emotions...well, they yell, they cry, they often make a lot of noise and if you are acting upon them (which is still a common thing for all of us) then like Herakles I think you're going to "miss the call".
So, even if you're not sure it will work, what does your instinct murmur you ECVG ?

 

[Gimpy]

EGVG, are you saying that after hearing from this guy that he was committing suicide you didn't tell anyone/call anyone, or do anything at all??

It was no the first time he said had threaten to take his life, and also, something I forgot to tell was that, he told me that he was locked in his room, with his family, doctor and police officers outside, trying to get inside. But yeah I didn't do anything at that time, just told him that he was scaring me, but I have to admit that I'm not about to stop or help anyone in that position, I don't have the power to do that. Especially when I have talked to him before. I have tell him that killing himself would no help him, on the contrary it would he a horrible thing for him and his family! I wrote him, I took the effort to give him all the good information that I've learned, but he didn't listen to me back them, he made fun of me and my "esoteric stuff", so this time I really didn't knew if he was telling the truth or just playing with me.

What about the other guy?? All it takes is one phone call to the police, his family, ANYONE. For all you knew he was lying there dying in a pool of his own blood, and from what you wrote it sounds like you just went to bed and told it to your family the next day as if it were nothing. Can you see the disconnect here?

The police was allready there, also his family. I know that it may seem like that, but on the contrary I was very shaken and wen I told my family about this I did it because I was worried and confused, didn't knew how to deal with something like this. So yes I can see the disconnection your seeing, but it was no the case.


EDU

Even if it seems futile, you can check with his family and make sure he's been looked in on. That does not obligate you to him in any way EGVG, its just making sure that THIS time isn't the LAST time. Its common for people who attempt suicide to rattle people before finally either miscalculating or truly giving up and dying. Just because he tells you the police and his family are there does not mean they really are. I do understand the fatigue that goes along with knowing someone who has this kind of damage.

I once worked with a man who spiraled into a manic/depressive state. I didn't get the impression he would really kill himself, but one evening near the end of my work day he called and said he wanted to hear my voice one last time before he killed himself. He hung up on me, and I went right to HR and reported it, then to my bosses. They called the police and he was taken into care. Eventually he was awarded disability for the manic/depression, and he had a clear history of suicide attempts that he'd mentioned, but that I didn't know were true.

You can respond without 'taking the bait' or being entangled in the life of the other person. EE is great for dealing with the shakes afterward, so is talking to your network. :) Hang in there!

 

[Laura]

While you may not have wished to have anything to do with this person, it is rather distressing that there was not enough human compassion in you to be concerned and to at least make sure that the proper authorities were on the scene instead of just trusting him.

I can understand not wanting to get sucked into someone's drama, especially when you have long experience with it and, considering that, that he's not a particular friend, that you weren't upset, I don't see much point in posting about it here except that it did expose your rather unfortunate lack of humanity.

 

[RyanX]

Of the few people I've known who have actually taken their own lives, each case had a repeated pattern of threatening suicide. It does get to be like the story "the boy who cried wolf" after awhile; friends and family often become immune to these threats. However, these are people who actually did kill themselves, so it must be important to take every single threat seriously as if it were the real thing, OSIT.

 

[EGVG]

Hi! Thanks for reading and networking with me, your comments do help, and yeah, I think I had to help him,that was what I was suppose to do, yet I didn't, I don't want to make excuses for my lack of respose to his help calls. But what to do when you know your dealing with a liar? A person that always seeks attention and never has help anyone you know, on the contrary he has make suffer his family and friends.

Dear EGVG:

I agree that this story is disturbing, on many levels.

Yes, it sounds like he is very troubled. But in the sense of helping one another and learning what it means to be of service to others, I cannot help but wonder?

To put it another way, if you are interested in being of service to others, or learning what that means, do you get to decide who to help?

Maybe it will make more sense to impersonalize it, so, in a general sense, does one get to decide who needs help and who does not? Now the question of who one CAN help versus those one cannot is a different matter altogether. Yet what do we base this criteria on? Or do we strive to be open and receptive to the needs of the moment. Can it be put any more plainly than those who need help in this world are often reaching out BECAUSE they need help? After all it is not the person without any problems that needs help, yes?

Maybe I am reading something into this that is not there and certainly one cannot help another hell-bent on self-destruction.

But why of all the people to contact at that time did he choose you? A mirror, a lesson, a challenge...or simply a scare and a "disconnect".
And isn't that the way of the world today, disconnects, isolation and fear.

kind regards.

That's true, I'm in not position to judge who deserves help :)

So, even if you're not sure it will work, what does your instinct murmur you ECVG ?

Acaja, my instinct tells me that I shoul go and visit him at the hospital.

I once worked with a man who spiraled into a manic/depressive state. I didn't get the impression he would really kill himself, but one evening near the end of my work day he called and said he wanted to hear my voice one last time before he killed himself. He hung up on me, and I went right to HR and reported it, then to my bosses. They called the police and he was taken into care. Eventually he was awarded disability for the manic/depression, and he had a clear history of suicide attempts that he'd mentioned, but that I didn't know were true.

You can respond without 'taking the bait' or being entangled in the life of the other person. EE is great for dealing with the shakes afterward, so is talking to your network. Smiley Hang in there! Flowers Flowers Flowers

Gimpy that's a good point, it didn't even occur to me to call the police or do anything, I was just don't believing him, I was thinking "why would him try to gather so many attention in this disturbing way, what is he up to know?" But posting here has been helpfull to realise that there are ways to help without getting involved. Thanks for sharing your experience.

While you may not have wished to have anything to do with this person, it is rather distressing that there was not enough human compassion in you to be concerned and to at least make sure that the proper authorities were on the scene instead of just trusting him.

I can understand not wanting to get sucked into someones drama, especially when you have long experience with it and, considering that, that he's not a particular friend, that you weren't upset, I don't see much point in posting about it here except that it did expose your rather unfortunate lack of humanity.

Laura I think that you don't get it, if he was dead, that would have upset me, you have no idea of the relieve I felt when my mom told me that he was hospitalize, he was alive, If the news where been "he died" not just selfish guilt would pass trough me, but also the feeling of just saying "its not my problem" that really sickeens me know. I agree when you say it was a "rather unfortunate lack of humanity" and I'm glad to be exposing myself and my flaws. Here I get help and the most sounding advise, even when its meant to shake me and make me open my eyes. In the end, the person I was most concern about was me.

EDU

 

[Ben]

[quote author=EGVG]

Laura I think that you don't get it, if he was dead, that would have upset me, you have no idea of the relieve I felt when my mom told me that he was hospitalize, he was alive, If the news where been "he died" not just selfish guilt would pass trough me, but also the feeling of just saying "its not my problem" that really sickeens me know. I agree when you say it was a "rather unfortunate lack of humanity" and I'm glad to be exposing myself and my flaws. Here I get help and the most sounding advise, even when its meant to shake me and make me open my eyes. In the end, the person I was most concern about was me.


[/quote]

Do you not see how there is still a logical inconsistency in what you have written here? You say that the news of his suicide would be very distressing to you, but you did not act to ensure that you did everything you could do to prevent it. You acted, it seems, as if there was an inevitability about the outcome of the situation. The 'lack of humanity' is not that you did not care about the outcome but that you did not overcome your own selfish reasons for not acting. FWIW.

 

[EGVG]

[quote author=EGVG]

Laura I think that you don't get it, if he was dead, that would have upset me, you have no idea of the relieve I felt when my mom told me that he was hospitalize, he was alive, If the news where been "he died" not just selfish guilt would pass trough me, but also the feeling of just saying "its not my problem" that really sickeens me know. I agree when you say it was a "rather unfortunate lack of humanity" and I'm glad to be exposing myself and my flaws. Here I get help and the most sounding advise, even when its meant to shake me and make me open my eyes. In the end, the person I was most concern about was me.

Do you not see how there is still a logical inconsistency in what you have written here? You say that the news of his suicide would be very distressing to you, but you did not act to ensure that you did everything you could do to prevent it. You acted, it seems, as if there was an inevitability about the outcome of the situation. The 'lack of humanity' is not that you did not care about the outcome but that you did not overcome your own selfish reasons for not acting. FWIW.
[/quote]

Hello Ben, what you say was clear to me. Please read all my responces.

EDU

 

[Avi]

hi again,

it may be that you are not native english speaker and so feel the need to correct yourself and your speech in each new posting, but from an observer level who has never met you EGVG it is really helpful if you detach in the sense of not being defensive.

In other words, responding to this situation NOW based upon being "called out" does you no good UNLESS you really GRASP the issue.

In the end, the person I was most concern about was me.

Seeing this is a step in the right direction, imo, for when I first read your post the only thing I could think of was how unfortunate it was to see you make the whole thing about you.

be honest, is it guilt prompting you right now? Guilt never served anybody and none of us are trying to make you feel guilty, rather to see with stark relief the reality of your self-centredness. Unless you see it, honestly own it and acknowledge it at a very pervasive level, the slippery serpent between the ears will continue as it always has.

But what to do when you know your dealing with a liar?

Again, does the mirror principle apply?

[quote author=EGVG]

Laura I think that you don't get it, if he was dead, that would have upset me, you have no idea of the relieve I felt when my mom told me that he was hospitalize, he was alive, If the news where been "he died" not just selfish guilt would pass trough me, but also the feeling of just saying "its not my problem" that really sickeens me know. I agree when you say it was a "rather unfortunate lack of humanity" and I'm glad to be exposing myself and my flaws. Here I get help and the most sounding advise, even when its meant to shake me and make me open my eyes. In the end, the person I was most concern about was me.

Do you not see how there is still a logical inconsistency in what you have written here? You say that the news of his suicide would be very distressing to you, but you did not act to ensure that you did everything you could do to prevent it. You acted, it seems, as if there was an inevitability about the outcome of the situation. The 'lack of humanity' is not that you did not care about the outcome but that you did not overcome your own selfish reasons for not acting. FWIW.

Hello Ben, what you say was clear to me. Please read all my responces.

EDU
[/quote]

 

[dannybananny]

I don't know but it seems to me that if he was bleeding you could talk with him and make his suffering and pain maybe easier, and that is why he i suppose call you, maybe he saw you as his only real friend and had feelings towards(no matter if he had negative impact on you, some people don't know different if they had some negative life experiences) you but didn't really know how to show it or didn't want to because there are many people who are "bad" with showing their feelings on outside because they think it's embarrassing or weak or something else, particularly among now days kids. I think if he had intention to kill himself he would kill himself eventually, you could try to dissuade him from that but you said it didn't work, and this is in contradiction with free will. This what society does to help people is hypocrisy because it is responsible for it, for example: people losing their jobs are saved from suicide and then die from hunger, this is only mask of some "humanity", not to mention that it is breaking his free will to commit suicide and that maybe by preventing it you would feel better about it because you "saved" him. In the end your friend ended up in the mental institution where he would probably be put on pills that would fry his brain and he will suffer more if he doesn't break from drugs so who says that letting him die wouldn't be right thing, it's subjective thing to say if you don't see bigger picture. If it is his choice it is his but you can never know if his call is trying to find some hope(which i think he did, but it's hard to know in the end), in that case i think it's good to have conversation and show a bright side of life, or at least have pleasant conversation with him if he decided to die for sure and ask him if that is really what he wants for sure, he in the end needs to find hope in himself. I think this is tricky issue and it isn't so easy just to say call the police. I know maybe it sounds somewhat cold what i wrote but it's the way things go, it's the lesson.

 

[EGVG]

I don't know but it seems to me that if he was bleeding you could talk with him and make his suffering and pain maybe easier, and that is why he i suppose call you, maybe he saw you as his only real friend and had feelings towards(no matter if he had negative impact on you, some people don't know different if they had some negative life experiences) you but didn't really know how to show it or didn't want to because there are many people who are "bad" with showing their feelings on outside because they think it's embarrassing or weak or something else, particularly among now days kids. I think if he had intention to kill himself he would kill himself eventually, you could try to dissuade him from that but you said it didn't work, and this is in contradiction with free will. This what society does to help people is hypocrisy because it is responsible for it, for example: people losing their jobs are saved from suicide and then die from hunger, this is only mask of some "humanity", not to mention that it is breaking his free will to commit suicide and that maybe by preventing it you would feel better about it because you "saved" him. In the end your friend ended up in the mental institution where he would probably be put on pills that would fry his brain and he will suffer more if he doesn't break from drugs so who says that letting him die wouldn't be right thing, it's subjective thing to say if you don't see bigger picture. If it is his choice it is his but you can never know if his call is trying to find some hope(which i think he did, but it's hard to know in the end), in that case i think it's good to have conversation and show a bright side of life, or at least have pleasant conversation with him if he decided to die for sure and ask him if that is really what he wants for sure, he in the end needs to find hope in himself. I think this is tricky issue and it isn't so easy just to say call the police. I know maybe it sounds somewhat cold what i wrote but it's the way things go, it's the lesson.

Hi dannybananny, I totally understand what you say, and I have to say I agree. I will visit him, and offer my helping hand, thanks your post make me feel more understood. But there's just so much I can do, is really up to him, his family seems you into themselves like my friend is, it gonna be a hard difficult ride for him.

EDU