Don't flatter yourselves.

[Musashi]

Seems the C's maybe warned us about this possibility on Mar. 21:

A: Neeileigl of Cassiopaea. Keep faith with each other.

Q: (Andromeda) What does "keep faith with each other" mean?

A: We notice that there are members of your forum who are not doing this.

Q: (L) In what respect?

A: Covertly antagonistic.

Q: (L) So there are people who are covertly antagonistic. Why are they covertly antagonistic?

A: Little respect.

Q: (L) So they have little respect.

(Chu) I'm assuming that means for you or us?

(L) In other words, they don't have respect for the group?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Us particularly?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Anything more than that?

A: You especially.

Q: (L) Why?

A: Inspired by negative discarnate entities with connections to 4D STS "handlers".

Q: (Andromeda) Are these people a danger?

A: They are looking for opportunities to manipulate weaker members away.

Q: (L) So, what is it that makes somebody weak?

A: Mostly ego.



Ava People of Cassiopaea!

 

[Denis]

I know the ever present emphasis of all here regarding the Work. I'm deeply in it too. I think sometimes it's useful to ask oneself "what exactly am I aiming for--with this Work?" And answering it in very specific terms. This question needs to surface more often, I think. (It might be useful if someone here took the time and effort to spell out exactly what the aim of their Work is). It may help clarify lots of things I think.

The C's have suggested karmic & simple understandings. I take that to mean distillation-- from the complex psychological battles in our minds ... refined into something basic & universal. Pain, suffering, agony, joy, acceptance, detachment, no-self even--may all be a part of that distillation process.

Speaking for myself only, that's the direction I'm headed. And from that perspective, even graduation isn't really the top priority. If I miss out, I will simply come back and do it all over again. Ultimately, it's the process itself that matters. I believe that's the true meaning of "value fulfillment" in Seth's terms. And it's entirely experiential.

FWIW.

Hi sitting,

I will try to answer your question as sincerely as i can atm.

Speaking for myself here, i don't like how i am at the moment, and i'm certainly not satisfied with my current level of being and knowledge. I feel like i am stagnating in my development, i am very lacking in internal motivation and have a very weak will these past few months (perhaps even years ). Obviously, i want to change this for the better cuz one can't go on living like this and expect to have any kind of progress - unless drowning in fear and darkness could be called progress in some twisted way.
I am very weak now and i don't like to be in that state of helplessness, and almost overwhelming despair. But this is how i feel now, this is where i am atm; and i have no intention of denying this to myself, or pretending that i am the happiest guy on Earth.
Seeing myself as i am now, i can only conclude that i am not even a beginner in the Work - cuz i am at the same spot as i have been for the last 3 or 4 years. And frankly, this scares the living hell out of me and worries me a lot. Why am i so lacking in will, why can't i find the inner strength to move forward, why am i so demotivated to change? How to change this current state of mine ? Cuz as i am now, i am of no use to anyone and can't help others to grow. I am weak, and weak people can't help others - they need help themselves. But then again, i am a horrible helper to myself, if i can't find the will to change for the past 4 years already.

That said, what is the aim of my Work? At the risk of sounding like a cliche or a script from a poorly written play, i want to be a better person than i was yesterday, to enrich myself, to improve myself. I want to learn and understand as much as i can, about *everything*; and then to put that knowledge to good use.
Looking back at my "progress" so far, i can only conclude that i am a slow learner - and i question even that. :/
They say that "once you have learned to love, you will have learned to live". Well, i am still learning and i need help on my journey. And i want my journey to be full of laughter, i want to be happy. Besides, love is just a word until we give it meaning, and we give it meaning by living it. I don't want my words to be empty phrases devoid of all meaning, i want to live them to their fullest; otherwise i am just a shadow, a walking dead forever lost and confused in this crazy ass world.

I don't know what else to say; i'm a total mess. Apologies if i'm out of line with this post, i will understand if it needs to be deleted.

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi Denis,
First of all, do not underestimate yourself. The self-realization of "I don't know" is not a trivial one. It only when we arrive at this realization that "progress" is possible. If we knew everything, what would be still doing here? It is because we don't know that we keep trying, often fighting, falling, standing up again, living the ups and downs of the warrior's life. It is the process that counts, the direction one is taking, the orientation. And in that orientation, if one need help and asks for help, there will be help, because that's what that orientation (according to which one chooses) is about. So, you don't know? Great, welcome to the club because there is room to learn more. Those who in their hubris, think they know it all, with their cup already full (of what, who knows) do not have that potentiality, unless they lean humility and to let go of the false ego. Anyway, it's never late to take action, and the realization of not knowing is a good step for that.
Hope it's not too unclear :)

 

[combsbt]

timejack,

Doom was given very thoughtful and courteous responses that offered clarification and opportunities for him/herself to see how the forum really operates. The thing is, this forum has dealt with this type of person/troll many times, just go browse the baked noodles section (which, frankly, is where I think this thread belongs). It doesn't take too long for the members here to notice that meaningful discourse will not occur and that it is not worth investing time or energy into.

 

[skycsil]

timejack,

Doom was given very thoughtful and courteous responses that offered clarification and opportunities for him/herself to see how the forum really operates. The thing is, this forum has dealt with this type of person/troll many times, just go browse the baked noodles section (which, frankly, is where I think this thread belongs). It doesn't take too long for the members here to notice that meaningful discourse will not occur and that it is not worth investing time or energy into.

Agree. Actually, I've been wondering why it wasn't moved to baked noodles.

 

[Archaea]

I think this thread is interesting, and I have a question:

Where do people think Doom's attitude comes from? Do people think it's an attack on the forum? Is Doom a paid agent or psychopath? Or do people think Doom is legitimately concerned, but isn't expressing him/herself constructively?

What are your thoughts on these questions Archaea?

Well I think Doom perceived the presence of covert STS machinations on the forum in general, but particularly among the mods and admins. So I have some more questions:

Are Dooms concerns a result of his self importance, or could they be a result of some truma?

There's been some mention of attack in this thread, what causes this perception?

If doom is a young person, how could his perceptions be validated, and guided to the truth?

What would have been an appropriate way for Doom to express himself?

Just FYI, my idea of the work is to become at peace with my existence. :)

 

[SummerLite]

Denis, when I read your post you sounded so much like me and what I wrote here a little while back, a bit surprising to hear. The issue of having the will to do was very much on my mind. I'm working on it but its a tuffy.

mkrnhr, Very well said! I totally agree. Being humble is So important and this understanding of not having all the answers. The false ego as you say is probably the same as what I'm calling the predators mind. I'm not sure if there are differences with that.

Its difficult for me to share my views in the written form sometimes and I really struggle with that. You've expressed a important, key understanding here and really forms the bases of all that follows. I share this view as well but wouldn't be able to express it so well.

The Work for me is about self evolution. I'm vey big on self evolution, :D I want to graduate from 3d sts school and thats my aim. I've looked most of my life for Knowledge, a dedicated seeker. Many things I've found to be helpful and wise I've found here as well. So I'm already acclimated I'd say to whats going on here even though I'm a new member. But my viewpoint has greatly expanded since finding this source and the C's. I had followed a path for a while thinking it valid and constructive but over time it led me to stagnation and some rather dark stuff...I like the story in The Wave (somewhere) very much about the seeker who spends time in certain "schools" on the path to illumination. When I came here, I was emerging from the second school, I believe it was, of the esoteric, mystery school that led to illusion. I will read all that again, I'm sorry if this is vague. Hopefully you know this passage, perhaps its the journey of the fool, I believe it is.

Mushashi, Thanks for posting that session. It's been floating in the background for me while this discussion has been going on, had me wondering.

 

[Sol Logos]

I don't know what else to say; i'm a total mess. Apologies if i'm out of line with this post, i will understand if it needs to be deleted.

Your raw honesty is admirable and rare, not at all out of line. I think one of the traps we all can fall into is comparing ourselves to some scale of spiritual progress. One thing that came up on this thread a bit are we are all STS here, in many ways whatever gradient of progress exists here, on the grand schemes of things, its inconsequential. Imagine being in the light and staring into a dark tunnel where people inside are all busy comparing themselves against one another on how much light shines on them. Its something like that I feel. The other thing is we are all on a unique journey with very personal lessons along the way and we all fall over at times for many reasons. The key to helping us all get up after we fall, brushing off the dirt and just taking that next step is compassion for ourselves, and everyone of us deserves it no matter where we are. At least that's what I feel. We're all in preschool so to speak, so much learning to gain from here who knows where it may end. The point is, we wouldn't want to be harsh (most of us) at a preschool child when forgettinf a number when learning to count, its really not much different. Anyway hope that's of some value.

 

[Denis]

Hi Denis,
First of all, do not underestimate yourself. The self-realization of "I don't know" is not a trivial one. It only when we arrive at this realization that "progress" is possible. If we knew everything, what would be still doing here? It is because we don't know that we keep trying, often fighting, falling, standing up again, living the ups and downs of the warrior's life. It is the process that counts, the direction one is taking, the orientation. And in that orientation, if one need help and asks for help, there will be help, because that's what that orientation (according to which one chooses) is about. So, you don't know? Great, welcome to the club because there is room to learn more. Those who in their hubris, think they know it all, with their cup already full (of what, who knows) do not have that potentiality, unless they lean humility and to let go of the false ego. Anyway, it's never late to take action, and the realization of not knowing is a good step for that.
Hope it's not too unclear :)

Hey mkrnhr,

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. It's true, i have developed a nasty habit of judging myself excessively- my looks, my skills, and everything that comprises my current point of development. And of course, then i fall into the trap of comparing where i stand in relation to other people. In and of itself, this would not constitute a problem, if i wouldn't allow my emotions to get the better of me; the thing is, i often start to feel depressed when i immerse myself in the comparison mode and i've probably developed an inferiority complex due to this line of thinking. Yep, very unconstructive and unhelpful towards myself, and subsequently to all those around me. This young man in the video says that "a comparing mind is one of the doorways to depression"; i think he nailed it there and he has lots of good points to share.
As for myself, i need to be more gentle and compassionate towards myself. Yeah, still learning to truly live that "L" word.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...f8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Denis, when I read your post you sounded so much like me and what I wrote here a little while back, a bit surprising to hear. The issue of having the will to do was very much on my mind. I'm working on it but its a tuffy.

mkrnhr, Very well said! I totally agree. Being humble is So important and this understanding of not having all the answers. The false ego as you say is probably the same as what I'm calling the predators mind. I'm not sure if there are differences with that.

Its difficult for me to share my views in the written form sometimes and I really struggle with that. You've expressed a important, key understanding here and really forms the bases of all that follows. I share this view as well but wouldn't be able to express it so well.

The Work for me is about self evolution. I'm vey big on self evolution, :D I want to graduate from 3d sts school and thats my aim. I've looked most of my life for Knowledge, a dedicated seeker. Many things I've found to be helpful and wise I've found here as well. So I'm already acclimated I'd say to whats going on here even though I'm a new member. But my viewpoint has greatly expanded since finding this source and the C's. I had followed a path for a while thinking it valid and constructive but over time it led me to stagnation and some rather dark stuff...I like the story in The Wave (somewhere) very much about the seeker who spends time in certain "schools" on the path to illumination. When I came here, I was emerging from the second school, I believe it was, of the esoteric, mystery school that led to illusion. I will read all that again, I'm sorry if this is vague. Hopefully you know this passage, perhaps its the journey of the fool, I believe it is.

Mushashi, Thanks for posting that session. It's been floating in the background for me while this discussion has been going on, had me wondering.

Hi there SummerLite,

Well, the birds of a feather... hehe. ;) Not to mention synchronicities. They are occuring all the time, yet we predominantly give attention to and notice those that make us feel good.
Anyway, thank you for your kind words and for your reply. We all have lots to share here, and i really enjoyed reading all the stuff that you posted in this thread so far.

I don't know what else to say; i'm a total mess. Apologies if i'm out of line with this post, i will understand if it needs to be deleted.

Your raw honesty is admirable and rare, not at all out of line. I think one of the traps we all can fall into is comparing ourselves to some scale of spiritual progress. One thing that came up on this thread a bit are we are all STS here, in many ways whatever gradient of progress exists here, on the grand schemes of things, its inconsequential. Imagine being in the light and staring into a dark tunnel where people inside are all busy comparing themselves against one another on how much light shines on them. Its something like that I feel. The other thing is we are all on a unique journey with very personal lessons along the way and we all fall over at times for many reasons. The key to helping us all get up after we fall, brushing off the dirt and just taking that next step is compassion for ourselves, and everyone of us deserves it no matter where we are. At least that's what I feel. We're all in preschool so to speak, so much learning to gain from here who knows where it may end. The point is, we wouldn't want to be harsh (most of us) at a preschool child when forgettinf a number when learning to count, its really not much different. Anyway hope that's of some value.

True, we are all STS here. But we are striving towards STO, and if it's the effort that counts then i think we are on a good path. And if we stray too much from our path, reality will hit us hard and "test" our willingness to get back up on our feet and keep moving forward.
I really want to enjoy my process, and i need to find ways to muster enough willpower in order to overcome my limits. You guys have offered great help, support and encouragement so far, and saying "thank you" is the least i can do here.

 

[sitting]

Hi sitting,

I will try to answer your question as sincerely as i can atm.

Hi Denis,

Thank you for having the courage & willingness to share. That already puts you miles ahead. And it's no exaggeration.

I'm much touched by your post. But I am truly in awe of your signature:

Pay attention to your thoughts; they will become your words.
Pay attention to your words; they will become your actions.
Pay attention to your actions; they will become your habits.
Pay attention to your habits; they will become your character.
Pay attention to your character, because it becomes your DESTINY."

You already know the answer my friend. There's very little I can add ... except sincere wishes to you on your journey.

 

[luc]

I don't know what else to say; i'm a total mess. Apologies if i'm out of line with this post, i will understand if it needs to be deleted.

Your raw honesty is admirable and rare, not at all out of line. I think one of the traps we all can fall into is comparing ourselves to some scale of spiritual progress. One thing that came up on this thread a bit are we are all STS here, in many ways whatever gradient of progress exists here, on the grand schemes of things, its inconsequential. Imagine being in the light and staring into a dark tunnel where people inside are all busy comparing themselves against one another on how much light shines on them. Its something like that I feel. The other thing is we are all on a unique journey with very personal lessons along the way and we all fall over at times for many reasons. The key to helping us all get up after we fall, brushing off the dirt and just taking that next step is compassion for ourselves, and everyone of us deserves it no matter where we are. At least that's what I feel. We're all in preschool so to speak, so much learning to gain from here who knows where it may end. The point is, we wouldn't want to be harsh (most of us) at a preschool child when forgettinf a number when learning to count, its really not much different. Anyway hope that's of some value.

alkhemst, I think this is an excellent analogy. We spend so much time comparing ourselves with others in that dark tunnel instead of humbly getting together, realizing we are in that dark tunnel, are in it together, and figure out where the light comes from in order to walk in that direction together, while helping each other avoid/master all the pitfalls and stumbling blocks along the way that await us personally and collectively... thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Chu]

Denis, if you SEE all that, then in my opinion, you have taken a big step. Most people are in the same situation you described, but they don't notice, or don't care. So, that's a good first step! And if you start out by trying to change one small thing at a time, you may discover that each time you can do and change more and more. Sometimes what also helps is to create "alarms" for yourself. For example, reading SOTT is a great tool. When you become aware of how messed up the world is, you WANT to do something about it, even if it seems very small sometimes. Another would be to actually set an alarm to ring ever hour or so, and when it rings, stop what you are doing, and be honest to yourself. What were you thinking about? Were you dissociating? How can you do better? What did you "forget" amongst the things you wanted to improve today? Etc. I hope that helps!

 

[Denis]

Denis, if you SEE all that, then in my opinion, you have taken a big step. Most people are in the same situation you described, but they don't notice, or don't care. So, that's a good first step! And if you start out by trying to change one small thing at a time, you may discover that each time you can do and change more and more. Sometimes what also helps is to create "alarms" for yourself. For example, reading SOTT is a great tool. When you become aware of how messed up the world is, you WANT to do something about it, even if it seems very small sometimes. Another would be to actually set an alarm to ring ever hour or so, and when it rings, stop what you are doing, and be honest to yourself. What were you thinking about? Were you dissociating? How can you do better? What did you "forget" amongst the things you wanted to improve today? Etc. I hope that helps!

Oh yes it does help! Thank you Chu.
I've handwritten your questions in my notebook, which also serves as my "on again-off again" diary. Keeping a diary helps me to see myself more clearly, and i developed a habit to log entry about any event that stoods out the most throughout the day; regardless if the event is positive or negative in nature. I want to know myself completely, and by keeping a diary i found one way to accomplish that; i sure hope i'm not deluding myself here. I kind of find it hard to write sometimes, cuz i lack the real privacy at home; and the only way to do it in solitude (and i can't do it otherwise) is by lying in my bed on my belly and let my hand/fingers do the job. Regardless, i'm grateful that i've been given the opportunity to write stuff in my personal journal. I have my own room at least, tiny as it is! God, you should see my handwriting; it's ugly as hell! I don't think i would ever pass as a sign painter or something like that. Then again, that's just me so... :)

That said, i find the title of this thread to be dumb. If Doomblahblah really wanted to engage in respectful discussion, he/she would've titled it "Don't flatter yourself" cuz then the title applies to all, and not just some members here that he/she seems to have an axe to grind with.
His/her responses here were nothing but false ego's games, that was clear from his reply to Menna. He/she also serves a function here, in that he/she teaches us how NOT to behave towards others. All there is is lessons, indeed. ;)

 

[happyliza]

Man, this forum is so heavily moderated, it's almost like a prison. I had made 2 more posts but they never got through. Why then should I bother here anymore? It's almost like a prison of the mind. Good luck on your spiritual journey then guys, we'll see who gets there first. The funny thing is, it's almost never the one who thinks he's ahead! Haha... I know for sure this forum isn't the hallmarks of STO, because there is no freedom of expression here! Freedom is STO quality.

What stunned me about this person in his/her above remarks was that he/she ASSUMED that he/she was 'right' 'above' 'more knowledgeable than EVERYONE on this forum. That is one incredibly HUGE ego!!!

But peeps, thank you so much for another thread packed with wisdom and very helpful comments and pointers for growth and self reminders. Always appreciated and for me, the more prods and alarm clocks the better! ;)

 

[Ðekel]

I think I have a tendency to remove myself and take a step back to look at things from a much wider perspective as I 'am' a very emotional person and I am desperately trying not to be ruled by them. Pondering that STS is not 'wrong' in a grander scheme of things - I feel is a coping mechanism for me, so as not to be overwhelmed by the negative emotions I hang on the selfish nature of humanity and the atrocities we commit. Rationalising that on some level it is a necessary stage of learning, or Karma -

Hi Soluna,

I thought your original post was insightful and expressed with great sincerity. I see no need to be apologetic.

Unity, or non-duality is the ultimate goal. All can agree. (Goyacobol has the references if needed). The real question is the process of getting there.

I know the ever present emphasis of all here regarding the Work. I'm deeply in it too. I think sometimes it's useful to ask oneself "what exactly am I aiming for--with this Work?" And answering it in very specific terms. This question needs to surface more often, I think. (It might be useful if someone here took the time and effort to spell out exactly what the aim of their Work is). It may help clarify lots of things I think.

The C's have suggested karmic & simple understandings. I take that to mean distillation-- from the complex psychological battles in our minds ... refined into something basic & universal. Pain, suffering, agony, joy, acceptance, detachment, no-self even--may all be a part of that distillation process.

Speaking for myself only, that's the direction I'm headed. And from that perspective, even graduation isn't really the top priority. If I miss out, I will simply come back and do it all over again. Ultimately, it's the process itself that matters. I believe that's the true meaning of "value fulfillment" in Seth's terms. And it's entirely experiential.

FWIW.

Even though this post was addressed to soluna I'd like to take the opportunity to state my current goal in Work, if I may.

My goal is to be aware as much as possible of the real unity which encompasses all (be aware of non-duality) while "walking" a path in which I strive to help others when asked to the best of my ability.

I'd like to add a quote attributed to Albert Einstein:

Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.

IMO the impetus behind becoming a man of value should not at all be fueled by a desire to be valuable for its own sake, but rather should spring from a desire to be able to serve ourselves by serving others who are ultimately ourselves.

I see the immense value, sitting, of your insight about the need to stop and ask ourselves -what- the goal of our Work is.