Encephalitis by EDTA?

Update: Today was made ​​an abdominal ultrasound and they found my liver enlarged, then the theory of a virus gains strength from. they ordered additional tests to cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr viruses and hepatic profiles. The only treatment is rest and not to eat too much proteins.
 
Galaxia2002 said:
Update: Today was made ​​an abdominal ultrasound and they found my liver enlarged, then the theory of a virus gains strength from. they ordered additional tests to cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr viruses and hepatic profiles. The only treatment is rest and not to eat too much proteins.

Hang on there. You might want to keep this in mind and that 6 grams of liposomal vitamin C is the equivalent of 50 grams IV vitamin C.

http://www.health-matrix.net/2013/06/22/vitamin-cs-historical-and-miraculous-record/

TABLE I - USUAL BOWEL TOLERANCE DOSES

GRAMS ASCORBIC ACID NUMBER OF DOSES
CONDITION PER 24 HOURS PER 24 HOURS
normal 4 - 15 4 - 6
mild cold 30 - 60 6 - 10
severe cold 60 - 100+ 8 - 15
influenza 100 - 150 8 - 20
ECHO, coxsackievirus 100 - 150 8 - 20
mononucleosis 150 - 200+ 12 - 25
viral pneumonia 100 - 200+ 12 - 25
hay fever, asthma 15 - 50 4 - 8
environmental and
food allergy 0.5 - 50 4 - 8
burn, injury, surgery 25 - 150+ 6 - 20
bacterial infections 30 - 200+ 10 - 25
infectious hepatitis 30 - 100 6 - 15
candidiasis 15 - 200+ 6 - 25

-Mononucleosis. A woman with this condition required 2 heaping tablespoons every 2 hours, consuming a full pound of ascorbic acid in 2 days. She felt mostly well in 3 to 4 days, although she had to continue about 20 to 30 grams a day for about 2 months. Many cases do not require maintenance doses for more than 2 to 3 weeks.

-Hepatitis. Usually oral bowel tolerance doses will reverse hepatitis rapidly. Stools regularly return to normal color in 2 days. It generally takes about 6 days for the jaundice to clear, but the patient will feel almost well after 4 to 5 days. Because of the diarrhea caused by the disease, intravenous ascorbate may need to be used in very severe cases. Often large doses of ascorbic acid, taken orally despite diarrhea, will cause a paradoxical cessation of the diarrhea. It has demonstrated the effectiveness of ascorbate in preventing hepatitis from blood transfusions.

-There is often a feeling when titrating to bowel tolerance that symptoms are beginning to return just before taking the next dose.

-IV and IM ascorbate. Clinically large amounts of ascorbate used intravenously are virucidal. The sodium ascorbate used intravenously and intramuscularly must contain no preservatives. Usually there is only a small amount of EDTA in the preparation to chelate trace amounts of copper and iron which might destroy the ascorbate. Solutions containing sodium ascorbate 250 or 500 mgm per cc can be obtained. The 250 mgm solutions may be used in young children intramuscularly in doses usually 350 mgm/kg body weight up to every 2 hours. When the volume of the material becomes too great for intramuscular injections, then the intravenous route should be used. Inadequate doses will be ineffective. Cases are described where certain death in infants already in shock has been averted by emergency intramuscular ascorbate.

-Large doses of intravenous “C” has a striking influence on the course of mononucleosis. In one patient who was given the last rites of her church, the girls mother took things into her own hands when the attending physician refused to give ascorbic acid. In each bottle of intravenous fluids she would quickly “tap in” 20 to 30 grams vitamin C. The patient made an uneventful recovery.

-Dr. Klenner found that the amount of C used “in any case is the all important factor. In 28 years of research we have observed that 30 grams each day is critical in terms of response” regardless of age and weight. (Barbiturate intoxication, snake bite and viral encephalitis may require larger doses in some individuals.)

-He reports cases of influenza, encephalitis, and measles easily cured with Vitamin C injections and oral doses.
 
Finally I have the results of the virus tests: I have citomegalovirus. So trying to rebuild what happened that day, it seems that the liver was compromised with that silent virus and I eat a big load of fat that morning, so the liver was working hard in process that fat and probably participating in the immune response to the virus. The IV EDTA was the detonator and my body had a completely decompensation.
As I said earlier this is not the first time this occurs, a doctor had an almost identical case with a person that have a IV EDTA session with silent citomegalovirus. So if you have or suspect to have any virus, if you even sneeze or have any form of herpes activated like oral herpes, I will say don't do the EDTA treatment for a while and I won't do it even orally for a while as a caution.
 
Galaxia2002 said:
Finally I have the results of the virus tests: I have citomegalovirus. So trying to rebuild what happened that day, it seems that the liver was compromised with that silent virus and I eat a big load of fat that morning, so the liver was working hard in process that fat and probably participating in the immune response to the virus. The IV EDTA was the detonator and my body had a completely decompensation.
As I said earlier this is not the first time this occurs, a doctor had an almost identical case with a person that have a IV EDTA session with silent citomegalovirus. So if you have or suspect to have any virus, if you even sneeze or have any form of herpes activated like oral herpes, I will say don't do the EDTA treatment for a while and I won't do it even orally for a while as a caution.

Thanks for the report Galaxia2002 - very interesting. Hope you're recovering well!
 
Galaxia2002 said:
Finally I have the results of the virus tests: I have citomegalovirus. So trying to rebuild what happened that day, it seems that the liver was compromised with that silent virus and I eat a big load of fat that morning, so the liver was working hard in process that fat and probably participating in the immune response to the virus. The IV EDTA was the detonator and my body had a completely decompensation.
As I said earlier this is not the first time this occurs, a doctor had an almost identical case with a person that have a IV EDTA session with silent citomegalovirus. So if you have or suspect to have any virus, if you even sneeze or have any form of herpes activated like oral herpes, I will say don't do the EDTA treatment for a while and I won't do it even orally for a while as a caution.

Galaxia2002,

I am not entirely conviced that EDTA triggered your CMV (cytomegalovirus) infection, because EDTA in general has been shown to have antiviral activity. I am not saying that I am right and you are wrong (because in medicine "nothing never not happens"), but there are other factors that maybe need to be assessed before one comes to this conclusion.

Another possible scenario would be that you already were zinc deficient and that EDTA - despite its antiviral effect - tipped you over the edge, because it temporarily reduced zinc below a certain threshold to trigger the CMV virus. In this case, instead of avoiding EDTA, one would take some zinc together with the EDTA. Some long-time chelation doctors actually advocate to take mineral supplements TOGETHER with the EDTA, because they feel that the chelating effect of EDTA on the beneficial minerals (like Ca, Mg, Zn etc) is not that big, because they switch their load as soon as one of the "baddies" (lead, mercury etc.) bumps into them, because their affinity (= attraction and stickiness to each other) is much bigger, and because they feel that the slightly reduced efficiency of taking them together is less important than to forget to take them altogether when the EDTA has left the body a few hours later.

Then there might be factors involved that are very hard to quantify - stress comes to mind. We are all stressed to various degrees and this is well known to trigger viral infections.

On the other hand, lead is well establlished two suppress your immune function and the same applies to other toxic heavy metals. On top of that all heavy metals (but lead in particular) interfere with energy metabolism in the mitochondria, which ultimately also depresses immune function, amongst many other things (like hormone function, as an example). So by leaving EDTA away, you perpetuate this.

If I were in your situation (and I am not ...) I would probably leave the iv EDTA away, but would try the oral route which is much gentler and slower - and let's face it: as long as you aren't having life-threatening symptoms, you don't REALLY need the iv formulation (I am doing 1.5g IV cycles at the moment for different reasons, but mainly out of curiosity, so far all went well).

I am not telling you what to do, you know your body way better than I - I am just tossing around a few ideas, FWIW ...

Hope that helps!
 
Hi Nicklebleu! my explanation is only tentative and I had also considered the zinc levels explanation, but the weird is that only 1 cc of solution of EDTA was passed which is 0,003 g of EDTA (1,5 g/500 ml solution) when I started to vomit. How can so tiny amount has this effect? I was taken a multivitamin without iron, zinc, magnesium, omega 3 and B complex everyday so I am not so sure that my levels were low. The body is extremely complex and many biochemical reactions could happend that we have no idea. Maybe in that state of fight the immune system misinterpreted the EDTA as something else and reacted. I don't know! :huh: But the fact that there is an antecedent with CMV and the same symptoms precisely can not be a coincidence. Maybe this reaction comes only with CMG and Herpes like viruses?
 
Not sure what your doctor did to diagnose an acute CMV infection, but the bottom line is - it's not that easy! You would most probably have had some serology done.

Some more information about CMV diagnosis (from UpToDate):

Diagnosis of cytomegalovirus

Author
Timothy J Friel, MD

INTRODUCTIONCytomegalovirus (CMV) generally produces an asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic acute illness in immunocompetent patients. In the immunocompromised host, however, CMV infection can result in a broad array of clinical presentations, including retinitis, pneumonia, encephalitis, hepatitis, and gastrointestinal tract ulceration -- complications associated with significant morbidity and mortality.
The diagnosis of CMV infections will be reviewed here. The manifestations of CMV in immunocompetent and immunocompromised patients are discussed separately. (See appropriate topic cards). The diagnosis of CMV during pregnancy is discussed separately (see "Cytomegalovirus infection in pregnancy").

BACKGROUND — All testing methods described below have their advantages and disadvantages and need to be interpreted in the context of the clinical presentation and other diagnostic assessments. In the past, serologic testing and viral cultures from multiple sites were the cornerstones of diagnosis of CMV infection. However, more recently, molecular amplification methods have gained prominence as diagnostic tools.

SEROLOGY — Serology provides indirect evidence of recent CMV infection based upon changes in antibody titers at different time points during a clinical illness. Many different antibody detection techniques are available, including complement-fixation techniques, enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays (ELISA), latex agglutination, radioimmunoassays, and indirect hemagglutination assays [1]. Investigators have also developed liquid-phase luciferase immunoprecipitation systems to provide qualitative assessments of anti-CMV antibodies [2].
In early studies, a diagnosis of recent or acute CMV was considered probable (though not definite) in the following circumstances:
The detection of CMV-specific IgM antibodies (suggesting recent seroconversion)
The observation of at least a fourfold increase in CMV-specific IgG titers in paired specimens obtained at least two to four weeks apart

Although the sensitivity and specificity of serologic tests are adequate, the requirement for paired serum samples limits the utility of these tests in establishing a timely diagnosis. CMV-specific IgM antibodies are typically detectable within the first two weeks after the development of symptoms and may persist for several months [3]. CMV-specific IgG antibodies are often not detectable until two to three weeks following the onset of symptoms [3]. Among a subset of patients with acute CMV infection who had serial serum samples available for analysis, CMV-specific IgM antibodies were detectable for a period of four to six months after the onset of symptoms [3]. Therefore, a positive CMV-specific IgM antibody alone may provide misleading information if a prior baseline test is not available.
Serologies are also helpful in determining past exposure to CMV infection. This information is particularly relevant to the management of immunosuppressed hosts at risk for CMV reactivation syndromes. As an example, HIV-infected patients with serologic evidence of past exposure to CMV warrant monitoring for CMV retinitis with progressive immunosuppression. Likewise, serologies are also helpful in determining risk of acquisition of infection. For example, a seronegative patient is not at risk for CMV reactivation; on the other hand, the same patient is at high risk for new acquisition of infection if transplanted with a CMV seropositive organ. (See "Pathogenesis, clinical manifestations, and diagnosis of AIDS-related cytomegalovirus retinitis" and "Infection in the solid organ transplant recipient".)

CULTURES — Using human fibroblast cultures, CMV can be isolated from multiple sites, including the blood, urine, throat washings, cerebrospinal fluid, bronchial washings, and biopsy specimens. However, there are several limitations of cell culture techniques:
CMV grows slowly in cell culture; depending on the level of virus present, one to six weeks must pass before characteristic cytopathic changes can be detected [1]. Thus, cultures cannot be relied upon as a rapid confirmatory test.
The detection of CMV in culture indicates the presence of the virus but does not confirm active CMV disease. CMV may be shed from the urine and throat intermittently for several months after acute CMV infection [4]. Immunosuppressed patients often shed virus for prolonged periods of time.
Though generally more sensitive than urine cultures, even isolation of CMV from the blood (peripheral blood leukocytes) is not diagnostic since viremia can persist in the absence of clinical disease, especially in the immunocompromised patient [5]. The overall sensitivity is limited, especially in comparison to newer techniques like CMV antigenemia assays and molecular amplification.
Therefore, cultures are not often performed, but can be useful when determining the presence of drug resistance [6].

EARLY ANTIGEN DETECTION — CMV early antigen detection (shell vial cultures) allows clinicians to detect CMV in culture before the development of characteristic cytopathic effects, thus accelerating the time to diagnosis. Following centrifugation of clinical samples (eg, urine, blood, bronchial washings) to increase the absorption of virus, cell monolayers are exposed to monoclonal antibodies. Binding of antibodies is indicative of "early" CMV replication within the cells [1]. Results are typically available within two to three days after specimens are obtained.
Monoclonal antibodies are also used to detect CMV proteins in tissue specimens submitted for pathologic evaluation by immunocytochemical techniques.

CMV ANTIGENEMIA ASSAYS — CMV antigenemia assays permit the rapid detection of CMV proteins in peripheral blood leukocytes. This technique employs tagged monoclonal antibodies specific to the pp65 lower matrix protein of CMV in peripheral blood polymorphonuclear leukocytes. Positive results are reported as the number of cells with staining per total number of cells counted. Results are generally available within 24 hours and the test performs well in patients with HIV infection and recipients of solid organ transplants [7-9]. In these patients, antigenemia appears to correlate with viremia [10].
Though extensively evaluated in immunosuppressed patients, the role of the CMV antigenemia assay in the diagnosis of CMV disease in immunocompetent patients has not been rigorously explored. One study evaluated this test in 40 patients with a suspected CMV mononucleosis-like syndrome over a two-year period [11]. CMV infection was ultimately confirmed in 10 patients; a positive CMV antigenemia assay was obtained in 9 of these 10 patients. Seven of the nine patients had low level antigenemia (less than 20 positive cells). Of the 30 remaining patients with other diagnoses, only one patient with systemic lupus erythematosus had detectable antigenemia. In this study the sensitivity and specificity of the test was 90 and 96 percent, respectively.

MOLECULAR AMPLIFICATION — Molecular amplification assays are fast and reliable. Commercially available tests include the COBAS AMPLICOR CMV Monitor test (Roche Diagnostics, Indianapolis, IN), the Hybrid Capture System (Digene Corporation, Gaithersburg, MD) and the NucliSens CMV Test, a nucleic acid sequence-based amplification assay (NASBA, Organon Teknika Corporation, Durham, North Carolina).
The COBAS Amplicor test is a PCR assay that amplifies a 365 base pair region of the CMV polymerase gene. The manufacturer reports that the dynamic range of the assay is between 400 and 100,000 copies/mL. The assay has been designed for use with plasma, leukocyte, and whole blood specimens.
The Hybrid Capture System CMV DNA test is a signal amplification method using an RNA probe that targets 17 percent of the CMV genome. The target is detected employing antibodies that specifically bind RNA:DNA hybrids. The dynamic range is 1400 to 600,000 copies/mL. The assay has been designed for whole blood specimens.
Nucleic acid sequence-based amplification (NASBA) was developed to detect both immediate-early gene UL123 (IE1) and late gene expression (pp67) of CMV infection. This assay can also be performed on whole blood samples. Unlike quantitative PCR and signal amplification techniques, NASBA provides a qualitative result.
The sensitivity and specificity of NASBA was evaluated in a study of 21 solid organ transplant recipients; 90 percent of clinical samples that were positive by culture or immunofluorescence were positive by NASBA [12]. In contrast, NASBA was negative in 50 CMV seronegative and 50 seropositive asymptomatic blood donors. In another study of 30 renal transplant recipients, the sensitivity of the assay was 100 percent, but the specificity was only 76 percent [13].
Like the antigenemia assay, molecular amplification techniques have been studied most extensively in immunocompromised patients. Multiple reports cite a high sensitivity and specificity in patients with the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) [14] or following transplantation [15]. The use of molecular amplification assays in transplant patients is discussed elsewhere. (See "Viral load testing for cytomegalovirus in solid organ transplant recipients".)
Little data exist on the use of these assays in immunocompetent hosts. One investigation compared the performance of peripheral blood leukocyte (PBL) cultures, CMV PCR, and antigenemia assays in a group of 52 immunocompetent patients with primary CMV infection diagnosed by serology [16]. CMV DNA was detected in 100 percent of the 25 patients who had the PCR assay performed within one month of symptoms, but in none of the controls. In comparison, antigenemia assays and PBL cultures were much less sensitive, with positive results in only 50 percent and 21 percent of patients, respectively, during the first four weeks of symptoms. However, assays remained positive by PCR in 81 percent of patients two months after presentation. The prolonged detection of CMV DNA may decrease the specificity of the test when used to detect active disease.
Not all studies have supported the utility of CMV PCR assays in the diagnosis of acute CMV infections in immunocompetent individuals. Using serum obtained from 34 patients with confirmed CMV mononucleosis, investigators detected CMV DNA in the sera of only seven (20.5 percent) patients using three different commercially available assays. The case patients had clinical findings suggestive of acute mononucleosis and laboratory evidence of CMV seroconversion or CMV-specific IgM; diagnostic testing for EBV and HHV-6 were negative [17].
At present, the comparison of quantitative results obtained using different techniques is not possible. Therefore, it is important to use the same test method when monitoring changes in viral load in patients over time.

SUMMARY
Cytomegalovirus (CMV) generally produces an asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic acute illness in immunocompetent patients. In the immunocompromised host, however, CMV infection can result in a broad array of clinical presentations, including retinitis, pneumonia, encephalitis, hepatitis, and gastrointestinal tract ulceration -- complications associated with significant morbidity and mortality.
In the past, serologic testing and viral cultures from multiple sites were the cornerstones of diagnosis of CMV infection. However, more recently, molecular amplification methods have gained prominence as diagnostic tools.
A diagnosis of recent or acute CMV is considered probable (though not definite) in the following circumstances:
The detection of CMV-specific IgM antibodies (suggesting recent seroconversion)
The observation of at least a fourfold increase in CMV-specific IgG titers in paired specimens obtained at least two to four weeks apart.
It should be noted that IgM antibody can persist for several months and, therefore, may provide misleading information if a prior baseline test is not available.

Serologies are also helpful in determining past exposure to CMV infection. This information is particularly relevant to the management of immunosuppressed hosts at risk for CMV reactivation syndromes.
CMV cultures are not often performed, but can be useful when determining the presence of drug resistance.
CMV early antigen detection (shell vial cultures) allows clinicians to detect CMV in culture before the development of characteristic cytopathic effects, thus accelerating the time to diagnosis. Following centrifugation of clinical samples (eg, urine, blood, bronchial washings) to increase the absorption of virus, cell monolayers are exposed to monoclonal antibodies. Binding of antibodies is indicative of "early" CMV replication within the cells.
Monoclonal antibodies are also used to detect CMV proteins in tissue specimens submitted for pathologic evaluation by immunocytochemical techniques.
CMV antigenemia assays permit the rapid detection of CMV proteins in peripheral blood leukocytes. This technique employs tagged monoclonal antibodies specific to the pp65 lower matrix protein of CMV in peripheral blood polymorphonuclear leukocytes. Positive results are reported as the number of cells with staining per total number of cells counted. Results are generally available within 24 hours and the test performs well in patients with HIV infection and recipients of solid organ transplants.
Molecular amplification assays are fast and reliable. Several testing methods are available, including the polymerase chain reaction, a hybrid capture assay, and nucleic acid sequence-based amplification (NASBA).

Sorry, it's quite technical, but diagnosis of acute CMV infection is not that easy ...
 
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