Euthanasia?

Rhiannon, Thanks for the feedback and link. Ok! ticks at those elevations. I can accept that. So, explain two short haired, and I mean short haired dogs having been bitten by two ticks. I can feel and see everything on them. They do not go in the wilderness. I have not seen any ticks on them for over 4 years. Again, both dogs? Still curious, one dog yes maybe but both of them?

FWIW, I guess bashing was not the right word. I can take whatever is given to me on this forum but to tell me I am making it up as I go is, well, not the way I would help someone with constructive criticism. My posts were obviously disorganized but they were not fairy tales. All of the other suggestions made me rethink, evaluate what I posted and repost. Anart, I will take a break. I make mistakes and I still have much to learn.
 
lara4unow said:
I admit I am fragile and for anyone to suggest that I make up stuff as I go was extremely hurtful.

Lara4unow I am deeply sorry if I caused you more pain, but as I said there was no nice way of putting it and it had to be said.

What you wrote so far in this thread (including your recent lengthy reply ) is indicative of something like that, while I cannot be sure what lies behind all this confusion I am completely sure that your account of your dogs illness is contradictory and it doesn't make any sense from medical point of view, at least to me.
 
Herr Eisenheim quote 4/27/11

Lara4unow I am deeply sorry if I caused you more pain, but as I said there was no nice way of putting it and it had to be said.

What you wrote so far in this thread (including your recent lengthy reply ) is indicative of something like that, while I cannot be sure what lies behind all this confusion I am completely sure that your account of your dogs illness is contradictory and it doesn't make any sense from medical point of view, at least to me.


Thank you for the apology Herr Eisenheim. I guess I reacted to in your words that “I was making it up as I went”. They are not the words I would chose to use in an objective questioning of the accounting of events and test results as I have tried to present in a timeline fashion. I believe there is a nicer way of putting it but if that is you way you chose to then so be it. I respectfully disagree with your latest response, on all accounts. I would like to put all of this kind of quibbling behind that behind us and agree to disagree.

I would really like to know how my dogs got sick. As I said my account it does not make sense to many very objective thinkers, the Vets, the University Veterinary Toxicology professors and labs and of course me. We have shared the data and facts in this case. My account of all of our input into solving this does not seem contradictory to anyone but you. There are, however, many things that do not make sense. I have only reported what happened and what information was given to me. So, if you have any perspective please add your 2 cents. I gave you a factual time line and actual test results. What is contradictory in your professional opinion? My competent Vet cannot figure it out either. We would appreciate any professional perspective you could add, if you want too. I could give you more detail on the blood analysis and culture specific urinalysis for both dogs, if you want. I would really like to have something specific for us to “chew on” from you. We could then have a more objective dialog about it. If not, let’s leave it rest at this point.

My only other thought was that Roy got sick first and then gave it to Kenya. The other variable could be them eating Elk or Deer stool, which is definitely all around and I can’t always keep them from nabbing a bit of it, even if I have them on leash. Anyway, it has been a long 4 months for me and truly I am blessed and thrilled that my dogs are 200% better and may well be on the road to good health for the rest of their lives, however long that may be.

In celebration of their 12th birthday, which was this last Monday April 25th. I wrote this as a tribute and sent it to my friends:


Dear Friends,
Today is a great day in my life. My dogs are alive and we are celebrating their 12th birthday. One month ago they were both dying of heart failure due to complications of two sever bacterial/viral infections. They are 12-year-old large dogs of the breed known as Rhodesian Ridgeback, shown in the hound group at all shows in the World. The breed was first registered in AKC in 1951, the year was born.
I became their owner/co-owner when they were 8 weeks old. They have been my companions and I have been their family leader and caretaker. In reality, they have given to me purpose and worth and I have given to them a commitment and bond of a family with me as the leader and family boundaries of our existence together. This has kept us alive and thriving in a world filled, at the present time, with animal and human destruction, pain, death and suffering.
I made a commitment to them and have compromised my life to keep this commitment. Many people do not understand or chose not to do this. However, I assert it is my right to do so and always will be my right. I believe they have been a blessing to me and I may or may not ever own dogs and cats again. When they all go to the “Rainbow Bridge”, I will make the decision to be the caretaker and friend of more animals, if I chose to do so.
No one can walk in any human beings shoes nor do I recommend it. However, I do expect other humans on earth to at least try to picture and feel what it might be like to do so.
I will go on and outlive all the animals that I chose to care for and I will commit to this charge with responsibility and means to do it. It is my choice. At this time, there are many worldwide anomalies, which affect the hearts of those who can feel it with regard to the suffering of humans and animals. I have taken the position of empathy for us all but, alas; I have come to realize I have no personal power, by vote or by passive or aggressive action to change the power structure imprisoning us with fear; fear of death, fear of starvation and fear of no home to call their own free and safe.
So, what to do? I can only smile and say thank you to those beings that check me out at the grocery store or serve me in a restaurant. They are no better or worse than me but equals in their right to live a stress free, well fed and dignified life on earth.
Blessed be to all who realize their right to choose, which is their right of free will. I believe the power rests in the Universal Divine Cosmic Mind, who will always strive for balance. All power to knowledge because it protects us from the evil of the psychopaths who blindly push goodness from our eyes, ears and voice. Their weakness or Achilles heal, is their wishful thinking that they have it “all in the bag”, so to speak. So be it and let the scales of universal justice decide when we each die and possibly know or not what exists beyond the vale of the earth's boundaries.
Peace to all of my friends and to all on earth,
Laura
 
lara4unow said:
I would like to put all of this kind of quibbling behind that behind us and agree to disagree.

The above statement contradicts what immediately follows:
lara4unow said:
My account of all of our input into solving this does not seem contradictory to anyone but you.

Which is a 'dig'. You stated earlier that you would take a break from this forum, yet you have returned to post what appears to be an attempt at 'having the last word'. It would be appreciated if you would keep your word and take a break from this forum.
 
lara4unow said:
My account of all of our input into solving this does not seem contradictory to anyone but you.

Okay if I single out few examples maybe you will be able to see:

lara4unow said:
They do not go in the wilderness.

and then in the next post

lara4unow said:
The other variable could be them eating Elk or Deer stool, which is definitely all around and I can’t always keep them from nabbing a bit of it, even if I have them on leash.

or

you started with this
lara4unow said:
Roy’s kidneys never recovered.

but today

lara4unow said:
One month ago they were both dying of heart failure due to complications of two sever bacterial/viral infections.

I am sorry Lara but none of us here has time to play whatever games you are playing.

lara4unow said:
I would really like to have something specific for us to “chew on” from you.

I think you should pay heed to Anart's advice
 
Didn't sound to me like the dogs had Erlichia at all. Every case I've ever heard of has been so deadly that most dogs don't survive. I'm thinking that this is a very emotional issue for you and you are perhaps not thinking/remembering/responding very clearly.
 
From Anart


Which is a 'dig'. You stated earlier that you would take a break from this forum, yet you have returned to post what appears to be an attempt at 'having the last word'. It would be appreciated if you would keep your word and take a break from this forum.


My intention was not to dig and I do not want the last word. I would like to come to some place that feels comfortable other than just telling me to take a break because I am too emotional. I started this because there are some really smart people on this forum and I needed a different perspective other than what I was getting. And yes I am emotional when it comes to my dogs and hoped I could get some help. I see that my defenses go up when words are used that suggest I am making things up as I go but other than that, I appreciate the objective discussion. And the response from Herr Eisenheim below is what I need and want.

From Herr Eisenheim
They do not go in the wilderness.

The Deer and Elk come down next to the condo village. It is not the wilderness. There is not a big dense pine forest next to where I walk them to do their business. There is a swimming pool and rec center. The context of the wilderness was referring to ticks getting on them. There are even Deer near the populated cities right below me.

From Herr Eisenheim
Roy’s kidneys never recovered.

From Laura

Didn't sound to me like the dogs had Erlichia at all. Every case I've ever heard of has been so deadly that most dogs don't survive. I'm thinking that this is a very emotional issue for you and you are perhaps not thinking/remembering/responding very clearly.


The context for that fact in my time line was that Roy's kidney's did not recover at the time from 1/31/11-3/31/11. Both he and Kenya had blood in their urine, urinated large amonuts frequently and the urine had a strong odor. However, now their kidney and bladder functions are almost back to normal in color, quantity, control and smell because they are being treated with the bacterial specific antibiotic Tetracycline as specified by the culture the vet did on both. The culture reads they have Escherichia Coli, which will respond negatively to this particular antibiotic. I do not know how much more clear I can be. I have the results right here. I could scan it and post it, if you would like to see it.


All I really wanted was some outside perspective from the great pool of thinkers here. I am truely sorry it turned into this instead.
 
Herr Eisenheim said:
All the evidence suggests dogs are carnivores and not omnivores as it is increasingly being suggested these days ( mostly by commercial food producers and their puppets in academia) therefore it may be worth considering feeding more meat and meaty bones and less carbs such as rice, pumpkin and yams you mentioned. Well at least this is my professional opinion based on some research and experience FWIW.

I'm happy to say I can back up that experience...and it's never to late to change your best friend's diet! My elderly dog was literally on death's door. I had to ask my friend to take us to the vet because she has a four door car and we had to carry Lilly and lay her in the back seat. The vet didn't offer us much hope after looking at her blood work, and we were preparing ourselves to say goodbye.

I followed advice from Laura and Herr Eisenheim ( initially just to make Lilly's last days as comfortable as possible) switched Lilly to the all raw meat diet , started giving her DMSO and putting some right on her hips...and she starting improving almost immediately. I also stopped using advantix and starting putting the garlic oil we use on the yard directly on her skin(diluted)

Now she's healthy, happy and even has a bounce in her step that hasn't been there for years.
:dance:
 
Guardian said:
I also stopped using advantix and starting putting the garlic oil we use on the yard directly on her skin(diluted)

Are you using the garlic oil for ticks and fleas? Is there a thread for this type of discussion? I did a search but just came up with recipes for people. If the garlic oil is a good treatment for ticks and fleas, would like to know if it can be used internally as well, like adding it to food. I have problems with ticks on my dogs in the summer, not fleas, but info would be useful if a problem arises.
 
Slow Motion Mary said:
Guardian said:
I also stopped using advantix and starting putting the garlic oil we use on the yard directly on her skin(diluted)

Are you using the garlic oil for ticks and fleas? Is there a thread for this type of discussion?

Yes "Natural tick protection" ...I just replied to you in it :)
 
Guardian said:
Slow Motion Mary said:
Guardian said:
I also stopped using advantix and starting putting the garlic oil we use on the yard directly on her skin(diluted)

Are you using the garlic oil for ticks and fleas? Is there a thread for this type of discussion?

Yes "Natural tick protection" ...I just replied to you in it :)

Thank you, but I meant another thread with more details (dilution ratio, internal vs. external use, etc.) since this thread is about euthanasia. Will search for "natural tick protection" and see what I can find. :)
 
Slow Motion Mary said:
Guardian said:
Slow Motion Mary said:
Guardian said:
I also stopped using advantix and starting putting the garlic oil we use on the yard directly on her skin(diluted)

Are you using the garlic oil for ticks and fleas? Is there a thread for this type of discussion?

Yes "Natural tick protection" ...I just replied to you in it :)

Thank you, but I meant another thread with more details (dilution ratio, internal vs. external use, etc.) since this thread is about euthanasia. Will search for "natural tick protection" and see what I can find. :)

I did the above post while I was looking at new replies to posts. Once I finished my search (thanks for the keywords), I went on to most recent posts and found the thread that I read in my search posted right below Euthanasia! :P
 
It has been a while since commenting on the passing of our cat Shadow and thank you everyone for your well wishes. There is a little stone where I buried him and his memory is alive on the property for us each and every day.

A number of members on the forum have also had to say goodbye recently to their loved animals and it is always a hurtful loss. For us, we have been lucky having a wonderful veterinarian for 20 some odd years, although not to the caliper of Herr Eisenheim with his knowledge and many excelled prescriptions for animal health. That being said, our vet has been by our side through thick and thin. I’ve helped him in his operating room a few times with our many dogs over the years and his compassion and skills were always welcomed with gratefulness. He has nursed eagles and owls back to health that were struck by cars or trains, keeps the local farmer’s cows and horses in wellness and help deliver their problem births. In this thread is the question of Euthanasia? Our vet has helped us now with 3 dogs (12 – 16 yrs in age) and one wise old cat of 19. Shadow of course died with me and it was very special in this way. One way or another it is the choice of the individual to perform this for your animal, not always possible and certainly not a comfortable process, but having our vet to help, knowing we could count on him to talk things out and help us through it was a blessing.

Here is a picture of Shadow about 7 years younger trying to assimilate computing. He was a :cool2: cat, great hunter and as home in the house as one animal could be.

 
anart said:
If the animal is suffering, the greatest act of love you can make is to put it down. You are the one with more control and power in this situation and you have the ability to end the suffering. No animal deserves to live toothless and in pain for goodness sake! If you love the animal, do what is best for it - not what is best for you or easiest for you. End the suffering in order to give to the animal, with no thoughts of your own suffering.

It is the least you can do.

Having just been through this yesterday, I'm in agreement. When the vet called and said that the growth which we thought may have been a nasty infection turned out to be three cancerous growths. The decision was instant, with a break in my voice (which btw another part of me saw and was quite interested in). It happened very quickly which makes me think in hindsight it was more an emotional decision (or maybe merely an emotional reaction) rather than an intellectual one based on any sort of morality or hand wringing.

Yes I would miss him, I knew that. However, having him around here slowly dying,wheezing, not eating and drooling would be doing both of us no favours. Reading through some of these posts, there seems to be a subjective hanging on or grasping to be "needed".
 
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